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post #1 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-17-2009, 05:26 PM Thread Starter
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obama wants another 13 billion for high speed rail

no link yet but,hes a dumbass.

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post #2 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-17-2009, 05:29 PM
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no link yet but,hes a dumbass.
agree...

the EPA is right there with him...
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post #3 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-17-2009, 05:42 PM
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I think high speed rail is a great idea. The European system rocks.
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post #4 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-17-2009, 05:55 PM Thread Starter
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I think high speed rail is a great idea. The European system rocks.
i dont think so,it will FAIL just like he is FAILING.

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post #5 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-18-2009, 09:00 PM
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i think this country having a high speed rail would be a good idea. It would be fierce competition towards airlines for sure, and hopefully good will come out of it. We used to have a great rail system but its been somewhat neglected.
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post #6 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-18-2009, 09:07 PM
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Another public policy idea that will only help 1/4 of the people and will be on the government teet like Amtrac. If it is such a great idea, where are the companies clammering to build it?
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post #7 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-18-2009, 09:17 PM
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I think high speed rail is a great idea. The European system rocks.
Yes it does. I've been on it a few times. There's only one problem...it's in EUROPE! They have a totally different mind-set when it comes to transportation.

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post #8 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-18-2009, 09:26 PM
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The design of europe works for trains. People use them to get to the metroplitan areas where they work.

In the US, not so much. Many people both live and work in the suburbs. That just doesn't work for a train. It will help some people, but many will still continue to drive.
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post #9 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-18-2009, 09:31 PM
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They have a totally different mind-set when it comes to transportation.
Some of the posts have already proved it

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post #10 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-18-2009, 09:44 PM
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post #11 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-18-2009, 09:49 PM
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I think a high speed rail would be immensely better than propping up airlines, the physics is better too.
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post #12 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-18-2009, 10:21 PM
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090416/pl_nm/us_obama_rail
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WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The United States will seek to develop high-speed rail nationally, President Barack Obama said on Thursday in emphasizing a broader commitment to U.S. infrastructure investment and a transportation alternative ignored or dismissed by previous administrations but long embraced by Asia and Europe.
"My high-speed rail proposal will lead to innovations that change the way we travel in America," Obama said in announcing the first steps of an ambitious initiative that will tap $8 billion in newly available economic stimulus money through 2012.
Those funds will go to states for upgrading existing passenger rail lines and laying the groundwork for high-speed projects, 10 of which are in various stages of planning in California, the Gulf Coast and other regions.
Amtrak, the national passenger railroad financially supported by the government, also hopes to tap into the stimulus money to improve its heavily traveled line between Boston-New York and Washington.
Amtrak has experienced a boon in ridership in recent years and new political footing after nearly a decade of confrontation with the Bush administration, which once sought to dismantle its operations.
Obama's vision clashes with entrenched views of many in government and powerful transport industries about the business prospects of long-haul passenger rail. The private sector abandoned money losing operations decades ago after the government expanded the U.S. highway system and facilitated the rise of air travel.
Still, he said reviving rail should not be a "pie-in-the-sky" proposition. "It's happening right now. It's been happening for decades. The problem is it's been happening elsewhere," Obama said in citing France, Spain and Japan.
"China, where service began just two years ago, may have more miles of high-speed rail service than any other country just five years from now," Obama said.
"There's no reason why we can't do this," he added, noting such a system would be cheaper and cleaner than building new highways or adding to an "overburdened" aviation system.
FOCUS ON STATES, OBSTACLES
The administration's effort focuses on federal and state dollars but private investment could play a key role in accelerating projects, government and rail proponents say.
Obama envisions a network of short and longer-haul corridors of up to 600 miles plied by trains traveling up to 150 miles per hour. Acela service operated by Amtrak only reaches 150 mph over a short stretch in New England.
Freight railroads, which own much of the rail infrastructure outside the Northeast, would also play a key role in facilitating high-speed. The biggest freight lines include CSX Corp, Union Pacific Corp, Burlington Northern Santa Fe Corp, and Norfolk Southern Corp.
Other companies that could factor in new U.S. rail investment include steelmakers and construction firms as well as locomotive manufacturer and equipment supplier GE Transportation, a unit of General Electric Co; Canadian locomotive and train car manufacturer, Bombardier, and brake systems maker, Wabtec.
The first grants to states for high-speed projects and upgrades to existing service could be awarded this summer. High-speed development, according to government and outside experts, will cost substantially more over many years. Obama proposed an additional $5 billion for rail in his budget.
In a study released to coincide with Obama's announcement, IBM said that it will take many different sources to overcome many obstacles.
The company, which provides technology for rail systems in Asia and Europe, said some $300 billion will be spent around the world over the next five years to build up high-speed rail.
Obama addressed two obstacles, including the shrinking pool of experts needed to work on the rolling stock and track. Also, with state economies badly bruised by recession, some will have to make difficult decisions to advance these programs.
"To be competitive in a 21st Century economy, we need a balanced transportation system that allows us to move people, goods and commerce quickly and efficiently -- and that reduces the number of cars on our roads," said Oregon Governor Ted Kulongoski in a statement.
Oregon is working with Washington and Canada's British Columbia on a rail corridor and Kulongoski said his state would apply for a grant once the Transportation Department releases competition guidelines in June.
Rail development has long been a politically charged issue at the federal level due to expense and service to less populated states.
Last year, Congress passed a sweeping train improvement bill and Obama plans to present a more detailed rail development plan in October.

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post #13 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-18-2009, 10:29 PM
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If tax payers pay for it... then tax payers should either get to use it for free... or get a stake in the profits.
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post #14 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-18-2009, 10:37 PM
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Why the fuck not? It's only ANOTHER 13 BILLION, (and that's just a "down payment" in the messiahs eyes.

WTF does he think this shit is? LAYAWAY!?!?


I love how he is able to call borrowing money we don't have, to pay for something we'll never make money on (think amtrak) an INVESTMENT!!
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post #15 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 09:11 AM
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we need infrastructure, after all thats what taxes are for.

is building high speed rail cheaper then building roads? I don't know, but if it is and we could travel further on 16 billion worth of rail then 16 billion worth of road then it might be a good idea.

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post #16 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
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i bet the "majority" will not go for this.especially since times are so bad.

now watch the goverment try to pass it anyways.thats the problem is that this goverment does not work for the people anymore.

that in itself is a fucking crime and some people need to be arrested.starting with W.

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post #17 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 03:46 PM
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Wait for more $4-5/gallon gas and see how many people would take the train. Heck, I'd love to take the train every time I go to the airport if I had the option.

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post #18 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 03:50 PM
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Wait for more $4-5/gallon gas and see how many people would take the train. Heck, I'd love to take the train every time I go to the airport if I had the option.
Then go buy your own shit! We're talking money our children are going to eventually account for. Just wait until our "investors" come looking for us to pay-up.
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post #19 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 03:52 PM
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I think a high speed rail would be immensely better than propping up airlines, the physics is better too.
Says you!

Try putting a high speed train on a treadmill.
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post #20 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 03:56 PM
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The big picture is a fine idea. What is missing is once again our government is giving too much credit to we the people. We dig our cars and we won't park them in a parking lot to take a train until we have to. We have had the luxury of taking much for granted most of our lives... all of our lives in some cases.
On a local level we see this business plan as failure over and over again as cities try to utilize metro link then scratch their heads when it runs empty. It's simply not mandated. Until trends turn on local levels, I don't see throwing billions at the national level a sound choice to make, especially when that money does not exist.
We have things to mend before we can build. That's kind of a common sense thing.

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post #21 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 04:31 PM
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Then go buy your own shit! We're talking money our children are going to eventually account for. Just wait until our "investors" come looking for us to pay-up.
I love the mentality they have for spending billions to save money...

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post #22 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 05:14 PM
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It has always taken money to make money... for big business anyway.
What we are feeling now is not reckless spending on the part of the current administration but a result of the last 8 years of reverse evolution. It will take more than the current administration to fix what has been done. At least the guy is trying to do some good for tomorrow. Nobody can say that about the last administration.

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post #23 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 05:22 PM
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I'm ignoring ModdinArt's hilariously ignorant post so I can make my point: it's a great idea, but the wrong time. Perhaps the adoption of a mass-rail system is an idea with merit, but now is not the time. If we don't have the money to do it, then we don't NEED to do it.

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post #24 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 05:30 PM
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WE DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY!!! Until this country begins to understand what that means, we will continue to implode what was once a great nation.
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post #25 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 05:42 PM Thread Starter
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4-5 dollar gas will finish sinking our country.if the goverment would quit taking half of what they do we would be in alot better shape.

either the goverment needs to give it a rest or the people need to unite against it.until one or the other is done,it will only get worse.spending what we dont have won't fix anything,only put us further in debt to the fed reserve and foriegn countries.

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post #26 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 05:46 PM
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I'm ignoring ModdinArt's hilariously ignorant post so I can make my point: it's a great idea, but the wrong time. Perhaps the adoption of a mass-rail system is an idea with merit, but now is not the time. If we don't have the money to do it, then we don't NEED to do it.

Ignoring me or not, you are saying the same thing that I am.
It will happen. We just can't afford it today.

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post #27 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 05:53 PM
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Ignoring me or not, you are saying the same thing that I am.
It will happen. We just can't afford it today.
No, I'm not. He's furthering the damage that the previous administration started, the same administration that you're complaining about.

Obama has changed very little from the Bush administration; the stances and issues are different, but the same bad habits are still there. You can't continue to overlook that.

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post #28 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 05:55 PM
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All politacians have the common bad habbit of lieing. It's why they went into debate rather than work.
That said, some are indeed worse than others. Our last president is the best example I can think of.

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post #29 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 05:57 PM
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All politacians have the common bad habbit of lieing. It's why they went into debate rather than work.
That said, some are indeed worse than others. Our last president is the best example I can think of.
Mmm, tasty backpedal.

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post #30 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 06:45 PM
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Mmm, tasty backpedal.
LOL! Yeah, considering Barry has lied more in three months than Dubya did in 8 years!

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post #31 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 07:01 PM
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is this new money? or is this something in the budget?

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post #32 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 07:19 PM
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is this new money? or is this something in the budget?
Considering we are trending a $2 Trillion deficit, DOES IT REALLY FUCKING MATTER????
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post #33 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 07:37 PM
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Like we can afford another 13 billion on some more bullshit... jesus..

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post #34 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 07:38 PM
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LOL! Yeah, considering Barry has lied more in three months than Dubya did in 8 years!
This quote sums up today's America pretty freakin well.

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post #35 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 07:42 PM
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This quote sums up today's America pretty freakin well.
That we have set through 3 months of this idiot?
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post #36 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 07:46 PM
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aaaaand another clever testimony.

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post #37 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 07:56 PM
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This quote sums up today's America pretty freakin well.
You seem to be an idiot. Just sayin...
post #38 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 07:59 PM
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Whats another 13 billion? Hell soon we'll be inventing numbers to cover Barry's deficit.

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post #39 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 11:35 PM
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W's deficit.
You guys must think Obama is much more powerful than he is. He did all this in just 4 months after such an awesome job by the last group of tools?
You are but chest thumpers. There is no way in hell you actually believe that.
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post #40 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 11:38 PM
 
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i think the rail is a good idea but just dont ever see it comming through
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post #41 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 11:41 PM
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W's deficit.
You guys must think Obama is much more powerful than he is. He did all this in just 4 months after such an awesome job by the last group of tools?
You are but chest thumpers. There is no way in hell you actually believe that.
Congress' deficit... the same one that was created in your daddy's term.
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post #42 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 12:04 AM
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Congess... indeed.
Ws decisions were greed motivated. Even if Obama's are lead by ignorance, that's a hella cool upgrade.
lol

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post #43 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 05:39 AM
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Don't see that really working in Texas. Some bigger cities on the east coast, sure.

Either way, bad time for it.

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post #44 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 05:55 AM
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Don't see that really working in Texas. Some bigger cities on the east coast, sure.

Either way, bad time for it.
Even when all the DART trains and buses were full, it was still costing the taxpayers millions of dollars a month. It's nothing more than big government at it's best (or worst?)...

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post #45 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 06:47 AM
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Even when all the DART trains and buses were full, it was still costing the taxpayers millions of dollars a month. It's nothing more than big government at it's best (or worst?)...
Millions of Dollars compared to what? Compared to if they all drove themselves?

If a bus pass is $5 a month, and it cost them $60 a month in taxes, it's still cheaper then paying $100 a month on gas...

Then also, a lot of those people in the bigger cities don't even own a car. So that is saving them how much in Insurance, Payments, maintenance, registration, inspection, etc. Let's also not forget in the bigger cities parking is also a fee.

Sorry... playing devils advocate on this one

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post #46 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 06:55 AM
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Millions of Dollars compared to what? Compared to if they all drove themselves?

If a bus pass is $5 a month, and it cost them $60 a month in taxes, it's still cheaper then paying $100 a month on gas...

Then also, a lot of those people in the bigger cities don't even own a car. So that is saving them how much in Insurance, Payments, maintenance, registration, inspection, etc. Let's also not forget in the bigger cities parking is also a fee.

Sorry... playing devils advocate on this one
The people that ride it, come out fine, but the entire system runs at that deficit. Even when every seat was full, it lost money at the cost of the TAXPAYERS....US. What's so hard to understand about that? All of the taxpayers pay for something that only a small percentage can use? Is there not an issue there? It has the capacity to carry 1% of Plano traffic...

I'm talking Dallas. I don't know about other cities.

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post #47 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 07:26 AM
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The people that ride it, come out fine, but the entire system runs at that deficit. Even when every seat was full, it lost money at the cost of the TAXPAYERS....US. What's so hard to understand about that? All of the taxpayers pay for something that only a small percentage can use? Is there not an issue there? It has the capacity to carry 1% of Plano traffic...

I'm talking Dallas. I don't know about other cities.
Yeah, I was on that bitch a few years ago when it was full and hell - it drove me to driving. At times it was like a damned gang fight trying to get on the train and when you were unable to ride the 1st/2nd train - lemme tell ya, you start losing your sensibility and start pushing your way through.

Pile on top of that lack of parking, standing for 45-60 minutes waiting for your stop and overall delaying your day a few hours - it starts losing its ability to attract people through savings. (not to mention sweating, smelly people - dirty, people coughing sneezing on ya...etc...etc)

As far as high speed rail, I think it would be nice to have but a bad time and especially for tax payers. I believe any portion that is useful for commuting has already been built. i.e. NE...NYC to/from various surrounding areas is already there. I think if it was somewhat fast and affordable, people may use it to travel from point a to point b - but that that it would have to be quick and considerably cheaper then air.

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post #48 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 07:48 AM
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The people that ride it, come out fine, but the entire system runs at that deficit. Even when every seat was full, it lost money at the cost of the TAXPAYERS....US. What's so hard to understand about that? All of the taxpayers pay for something that only a small percentage can use? Is there not an issue there? It has the capacity to carry 1% of Plano traffic...

I'm talking Dallas. I don't know about other cities.
I can see a "circle of life" here that sounds(or is) on the socialism side about the taxpayers paying this.

I'm going to assume, most people that use the DART system are in the lower class that couldn't afford to drive their own car everyday to work. Without DART, they would not be able to get to place of employment with their current pay to work for a small business. This would prevent the small business to be able to grow to meet it's customers demand by either paying more salary for the price of travel, or just laying off the people entirely. This is turn could potentially put the business out of business, allowing the competition to raise the price of goods or service's to the consumer. Raising the unemployment rate, which then more of taxpayers money paying for more unemployment. Not to mention the loss of income tax of the business which the taxpayers also have to make up for. So on and so on.

So it comes down to which is better for the economy? To "lose" a few million a month of middle-upper class taxpayers money, or a hurting economy because no one can get to their jobs?

Besides, isn't all "taxes" considered a loss. Aren't taxes primarily in place to help better the community. If people riding buses helps keeps job, and keep more cars off the road for better commute to those that do drive cars, isn't it doing it's job?

I'm really just talking out of my ass for the sake of an argument, ignore if you want.

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post #49 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by FATHERFORD View Post
I can see a "circle of life" here that sounds(or is) on the socialism side about the taxpayers paying this.

I'm going to assume, most people that use the DART system are in the lower class that couldn't afford to drive their own car everyday to work. Without DART, they would not be able to get to place of employment with their current pay to work for a small business. This would prevent the small business to be able to grow to meet it's customers demand by either paying more salary for the price of travel, or just laying off the people entirely. This is turn could potentially put the business out of business, allowing the competition to raise the price of goods or service's to the consumer. Raising the unemployment rate, which then more of taxpayers money paying for more unemployment. Not to mention the loss of income tax of the business which the taxpayers also have to make up for. So on and so on.

So it comes down to which is better for the economy? To "lose" a few million a month of middle-upper class taxpayers money, or a hurting economy because no one can get to their jobs?

Besides, isn't all "taxes" considered a loss. Aren't taxes primarily in place to help better the community. If people riding buses helps keeps job, and keep more cars off the road for better commute to those that do drive cars, isn't it doing it's job?

I'm really just talking out of my ass for the sake of an argument, ignore if you want.
I'd never ignore a legitimate post! DART in itself, is probably a poor example of how mass transit works...or doesn't work. It is a HUGE employer, not unlike our federal government. I used to do a lot of business with DART through Ryder. I saw so much laziness and waste, it made me sick. How about the 2007 DART short-fall of 1 billion dollars that occured? Any time there are millions of taxpayer dollars involved, there's scandal,scams, and waste. There just aren't many things the government does right...

CHL holder and Conservative...AKA "Domestic Terrorist"
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post #50 of 59 (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FATHERFORD View Post
I can see a "circle of life" here that sounds(or is) on the socialism side about the taxpayers paying this.

I'm going to assume, most people that use the DART system are in the lower class that couldn't afford to drive their own car everyday to work. Without DART, they would not be able to get to place of employment with their current pay to work for a small business.
The morning/evening crowd of DART is probably 50/50ish (at least when I rode) of those who could not afford anything else and those who were being frugal.

Off those hours, I typically saw people I did not want to sit near.

My '03 Sold.
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