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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-08-2009, 10:36 PM Thread Starter
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33 minutes

Obama will cancel missile defense

http://www.heritage.org/33-minutes/
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-08-2009, 10:50 PM
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He's just begging for us to be attacked again...
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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-08-2009, 10:53 PM
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"Hope is not a good foundation for a national security strategy." Nice.


.

Audentes Fortuna Juvat
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-08-2009, 10:54 PM Thread Starter
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Gates called for $1.4 billion in cuts to missile defense

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/firs...ve-vulnerable/

Defense Secretary Robert Gates' call to cut back on missile defense programs is running into resistance from lawmakers and others who say the U.S. will be left vulnerable in the face of North Korea and Iran's advancing efforts to develop long-range rockets.

Gates called for $1.4 billion in cuts to missile defense as part of a budget plan he says will "reshape the priorities" of the Pentagon and "rebalance this department's programs in order to institutionalize and finance our capabilities to fight the wars we are in today and the scenarios we are most likely to face in the years ahead."

Among the proposed cuts would come the end of the "multiple kill vehicle" program -- a hovering machine meant to shoot down enemy missiles, even from space.

Other high-tech missile defense programs would also be scaled back. The second prototype aircraft of the Airborne Laser -- a Boeing 747-mounted laser meant to intercept missiles near their launch areas -- would be terminated and the design efforts to date turned into research and development.
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 12:27 AM
 
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hmm. 2 sources. One is the Heritage Foundation, who's first page on their own website claims to be, in their words "a conservative think tank".

And Fox News.

If conservative media told you guys to kill your fathers, you'd all be bastards.
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 12:58 AM
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hmm. 2 sources. One is the Heritage Foundation, who's first page on their own website claims to be, in their words "a conservative think tank".

And Fox News.

If conservative media told you guys to kill your fathers, you'd all be bastards.


And if Obama told you to suck his dick, you'd do it twice just to make sure you did a good enough job.

Oh yeah...

http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...889673,00.html

Quote:
Gates also plans to cut spending on missile defense by $1.4 billion next year, while new satellite communications programs are trimmed.
Stick that in your "sources" pipe and smoke it... fuckin idiot.

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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 06:38 AM
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who's first page on their own website claims to be, in their words "a conservative think tank".
Fuck, someone needs to do some thinking... the Dems in power obviously aren't doing it.


Do you think that just because the source of the video was a conservative group that you're being lied to and that there are not nations and rouge groups out there actively seeking nuclear and ballistic capabilities?


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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 07:28 AM
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dumbass's

RON PAUL '08
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 07:37 AM
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so far we have spent 700 billion on the trying to develop a missile shield, so far it has not worked the success rate is 20%. the other problem is the latest version of the missile shield system was not designed to stop a ballistic missile with countermeasures (it is believed that all modern missiles have countermeasures).

I think in this case the best defense is a strong offense, keep our nukes pointed at everyone else ready to fire.

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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 07:39 AM
 
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Fuck, someone needs to do some thinking... the Dems in power obviously aren't doing it.


Do you think that just because the source of the video was a conservative group that you're being lied to and that there are not nations and rouge groups out there actively seeking nuclear and ballistic capabilities?
"Think Tank" doesn't mean they're a bunch of really smart people, sitting around thinking. That means they're a bunch of people who figure out what's best for Conservatives, ala a marketing department. Meaning, they don't care how outlandish the lie, or skewed the information. If it bumps up Conservative standing in the world, they'll put it out there.

You guys are just looking for every reason to bash Obama under cover of paranoia. He's been in office 3 months and you're all freaking out. Just because 99% of Americans hated Bush by the time he left office, doesn't mean you have to revolt before the new guy even has a year in his term behind him. Calm down. You lost. You ran a shitty candidate with a shittier vice candidate, and you lost. The majority of Americans wanted this guy. He's not the OPPOSITE of what you wanted. He has America's best interests at heart, no matter what Fox News tells you.

Get over the loss. Stop Glenn Beck crying and live. Sheesh.
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 07:50 AM
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I voted for McCain, so I for one intend to thoroughly enjoy bashing your messiah's mistakes just like you whining libs did for the past eight years.
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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 08:19 AM
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"Think Tank" doesn't mean they're a bunch of really smart people, sitting around thinking. That means they're a bunch of people who figure out what's best for Conservatives, ala a marketing department. Meaning, they don't care how outlandish the lie, or skewed the information. If it bumps up Conservative standing in the world, they'll put it out there.

You guys are just looking for every reason to bash Obama under cover of paranoia. He's been in office 3 months and you're all freaking out. Just because 99% of Americans hated Bush by the time he left office, doesn't mean you have to revolt before the new guy even has a year in his term behind him. Calm down. You lost. You ran a shitty candidate with a shittier vice candidate, and you lost. The majority of Americans wanted this guy. He's not the OPPOSITE of what you wanted. He has America's best interests at heart, no matter what Fox News tells you.

Get over the loss. Stop Glenn Beck crying and live. Sheesh.
And this has what to do with missile defense? Did you miss the news about North Korea last weekend? You don't think there should be some alarm in canceling something like this, especially when we have already thrown billions of dollars at it?

I could just as easily say to get Obama's dick out of your mouth. Has he done anything you have disagreed with yet? I find it hard to believe you aren't just sucking his dick if you have agreed with everything he has done.

Btw, I'm perfectly happy with a 20% success rate. Considering that an ICBM with nuclear, chemical or biological warheads attached would kill hundreds of thousands of people, 20% is fine with me.

I honestly think that some of you guys are going to have to see a bomb go off in your front yard before you wake up. I'm far from paranoid about this but I'm also not stupid.

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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 08:30 AM
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I honestly think that some of you guys are going to have to see a bomb go off in your front yard before you wake up.
Obviously it will take that. For them there is no threat in the world that is worth the expense of building a defense for. Unless, of course, some nutjob lobs a missile at north Texas.

Actually I hope we get an excuse to bump up our military machine and flatten some shithole country. It kept the rest of the world in check for the past 64 years, apparently they need a refresher...
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 08:32 AM
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You can't fix stupid, but you can vote it out.

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Bullet sort of looses his grip when he factually gets his ass tore off.
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 08:36 AM
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This guy is a big PUSSY hell I think Hillay has bigger balls than he does. But, all you liberal nut suckers new where this guy stands and yet you still voted for him.



Is his own words prof enough pampers??????

You can't fix stupid, but you can vote it out.

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Bullet sort of looses his grip when he factually gets his ass tore off.
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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 09:27 AM
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so far we have spent 700 billion on the trying to develop a missile shield, so far it has not worked the success rate is 20%. the other problem is the latest version of the missile shield system was not designed to stop a ballistic missile with countermeasures (it is believed that all modern missiles have countermeasures).

I think in this case the best defense is a strong offense, keep our nukes pointed at everyone else ready to fire.
Can you tell me where you are getting that 20% number from?


You are correct that the NMD system doesn't take counter measures into account (at least that is the case with publicly available info) However only ONE country possesses sophisticated countermeasures and that is Russia. Even then, they only started deploying such countermeasures recently. However, the NMD system was never meant to counter an attack from Russia. Such an attack would easily overwhelm the system. It is meant to counter a very small attack from North Korea, Iran, or another rogue nation/group.

Less sophisticated countermeasures are basically dummy warheads on a MIRVed vehicle. China and Russia are the only potential adversaries that possess any MIRV technology to begin with. Again the NMD wasn't meant to counter any threat from them anyways because an attack would easily overwhelm the system...

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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 09:33 AM
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My understanding, and I haven't followed the missile defense system (so I could be wrong) is that they have had five tests and only the last one worked as intended. Now, to me, that is a little bit different than saying it has a "20% success rate".
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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 09:54 AM
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My understanding, and I haven't followed the missile defense system (so I could be wrong) is that they have had five tests and only the last one worked as intended. Now, to me, that is a little bit different than saying it has a "20% success rate".
It kinda depends on the system AL. For instance, the THAAD system has been 100% dead on in this decade.. They had 10 tests in which three were canceled because of issues with the target vehicle.

Then there is the less accurate (ground-based midrange defense) GMD system. But even that one has had a 57% success rate in this decade.

I have a feeling that the 20% number is over the entire life of the NMD systems testing and development. There were a huge number of failures in the 1990s but in this decade the success rates have climbed quite a bit.

However, it has been correctly mentioned that the system has never been tested against missiles that have countermeasures. Nor has it been tested against MIRVed missiles. But then, the system was never meant to defend against those because only major nuclear powers possess that technology...

My ONLY concern with the NMD system is the cost benefit. We are building a system for a threat that doesn't CURRENTLY exist. North Korea's missiles can only get as far Hawaii and they can barely do that. Iran can't go any further than Israel. Pakistan can only target most of India. There are only TWO genuine threats and those are Russia and China. The only way we are going to see an issue there is if a terrorist party manages to capture and launch a missile from those two countries. Something like that isn't exactly a cakewalk..

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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 09:57 AM
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I think it is a safe assumption that if North Korea were to fire a missile at us it would be equipped with counter measures.

the most recent missile defense shield that was being developed was meant to protect us from rouge missiles, older missiles from the former soviet union, developed 50 years ago. I think right now we are more likely to be hit from a country like North Korea or Iran who will build their own missile rather then buying an older one.

if you look at the program, there are over 100 companies involved, all with contracts, they get paid even if it fails, and this has been going on for 20 years now. its a mess the way it has been managed.

I think its time we take a step back from this, assess our needs, (I do think we still need this) but take a smarter approach. there is no sense in spending all this money for an out dated system.

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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 10:05 AM
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Here is the thing though, you are going to have to be able to reliably intercept a missile without countermeasures before you can start talking about doing things with MIRVs or fancier stuff.

We all know that this is only good at countering 1950s technology. I think you have to develop it with an eye towards proliferation of the advanced technology. As the tech filters down to the idiots of the world we are going to have to keep on developing this thing.

And hell yes it is expensive and wasteful just like anything the government does. I'm all for any sort of overhaul to get that under control.
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post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 12:08 PM
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"Think Tank" doesn't mean they're a bunch of really smart people, sitting around thinking. That means they're a bunch of people who figure out what's best for Conservatives, ala a marketing department. Meaning, they don't care how outlandish the lie, or skewed the information. If it bumps up Conservative standing in the world, they'll put it out there.

You guys are just looking for every reason to bash Obama under cover of paranoia. He's been in office 3 months and you're all freaking out. Just because 99% of Americans hated Bush by the time he left office, doesn't mean you have to revolt before the new guy even has a year in his term behind him. Calm down. You lost. You ran a shitty candidate with a shittier vice candidate, and you lost. The majority of Americans wanted this guy. He's not the OPPOSITE of what you wanted. He has America's best interests at heart, no matter what Fox News tells you.

Get over the loss. Stop Glenn Beck crying and live. Sheesh.
Bullshit. Maybe 99% of liberal Democrats hated him but many Republicans still supported him, but the 'media' refuses to report on that. For whatever reason, they decided they didn't like him so they attempted to destroy him.

He has America's best interests at heart?!? Prove it! He's trying to undo everything we've ever stood for.

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post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 12:14 PM
 
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Odd.

You guys are whining because the carryover from the Bush administration cut the missile defense budget, as Fox has told you.

However, if you look at the actual numbers of the budget...

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...t-cut.php#more

...you'll notice that's only PART of it. Last year, under Bush, Congress appropriated $513 billion to the Pentagon. This year, Gates is asking for $534 billion.

So, it's a $21 billion INCREASE to DEFENSE.

Another victory for Obama! However, you guys believe the Heritage Foundation when they skew the numbers to say "oh, he cut right HERE.", when "HERE" wasn't working very well, and wasting taxpayer dollars.

Ease up, people. Seriously. Your blind hatred for anything non-conservative is getting in the way of believing in your country.
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post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 04:34 PM
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Odd.

You guys are whining because the carryover from the Bush administration cut the missile defense budget, as Fox has told you.

However, if you look at the actual numbers of the budget...

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...t-cut.php#more

...you'll notice that's only PART of it. Last year, under Bush, Congress appropriated $513 billion to the Pentagon. This year, Gates is asking for $534 billion.

So, it's a $21 billion INCREASE to DEFENSE.

Another victory for Obama! However, you guys believe the Heritage Foundation when they skew the numbers to say "oh, he cut right HERE.", when "HERE" wasn't working very well, and wasting taxpayer dollars.

Ease up, people. Seriously. Your blind hatred for anything non-conservative is getting in the way of believing in your country.

Maybe you are confused, this thread is about the missile defense program.

By the way, a $21 billion increase on a $513 billion budget is pretty much an increase at the rate of inflation. Not that you would know anything about economics....
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post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 06:29 PM
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Maybe you are confused, this thread is about the missile defense program.

By the way, a $21 billion increase on a $513 billion budget is pretty much an increase at the rate of inflation. Not that you would know anything about economics....
Plus spending billions on plane trips to talk to the terrorist is not what i consider defense. If you want to ear fuck em put it somewhere else in the budget

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post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-10-2009, 06:44 AM
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Plus spending billions on plane trips to talk to the terrorist is not what i consider defense. If you want to ear fuck em put it somewhere else in the budget
Maybe we could stop funding abortions and birth control for other countries and spend it on missile defense. Just a thought.

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post #26 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-10-2009, 07:56 AM
 
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Maybe you are confused, this thread is about the missile defense program.

By the way, a $21 billion increase on a $513 billion budget is pretty much an increase at the rate of inflation. Not that you would know anything about economics....
The "missile defense program" in question is one that was almost star wars again. It wasn't working. They'd thrown billions into it, with little to no results. They're redirecting that money, (and adding to it) to other areas of the military.

You should be fine with that. Except that conservative media explains it in a way that sounds as if "Obama is taking away our ability to fight incoming missiles!!!" When in reality, that's not the truth.
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post #27 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-10-2009, 08:28 AM
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The "missile defense program" in question is one that was almost star wars again. It wasn't working. They'd thrown billions into it, with little to no results. .


Little to no results? Have any facts to back this up? Has to be within the last 5 years.

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post #28 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-10-2009, 10:32 AM
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Maybe we could stop funding abortions and birth control for other countries and spend it on missile defense. Just a thought.
x2 sounds like their own fuckin problem! We need to bring ourselves out of this and then worry about other nations. IMO

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