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post #1 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-02-2009, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
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prime example of the problems with unions

The AT&T landline union folks are prepared to walk off the job at midnight on saturday. As you may or may not know, the landline business has been shedding customers right and left, people are having the service disconnected and are using their cel phones instead to save money.

So, 1000,000 AT&T landline operations union people are now demanding more money and better benefits from AT&T.

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The disconnect between employees and their employer is due to a very different view regarding wages, healthcare benefits and retiree benefits.

AT&T says they are trying to stay viable during a tough economy.

Employees want more from the next contract.
The union always wants more even when business conditions clearly dictate that more is not possible.

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dw....9672f0d2.html
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post #2 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-02-2009, 03:35 PM
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Unions: The parasite that frequently kills the host.

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post #3 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-02-2009, 04:31 PM
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Should do away completely with Unions. Smile and say "Cool. You want to leave, millions of Americans need jobs. Have fun."
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post #4 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-02-2009, 08:24 PM
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Don't let the door hit you in the ass . We haven't had a land line at home in years .
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post #5 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-02-2009, 09:28 PM
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post #6 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-03-2009, 06:55 AM
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All unions are not bad, but the CWA SUCKS ASS BIG TIME. If you don't believe that they are in bed with the company your mistaken. Land lines are a thing of the past but most of these techs also install DSL lines as well as special circuit lines. This is the same union that allowed the invention of a "premise tech", which is basically the same as an installer or repairman that works at the customers premises for about 1/2 the pay. All these workers and the union have known for years that they will have to start paying for some of there benefits, they did it to management after the last contract. Most likely they will work without a contract for a time while they make a new one that will be acceptable to the company and the union heads, without regards to the people they represent, kinda like our nations government. There is no place for union in a right to work state in the end the company will do as it sees fit.

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post #7 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-03-2009, 07:05 AM
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I know about those premises tech positions! I applied for one, got a date to go test and decided fuck it once i found out it was a BS position.

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post #8 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-03-2009, 09:14 AM
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AT&T should let them walk. Move some of the cell phone people over to the land line division and be done with it. It is almost as if the landline people laid themselves off.
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post #9 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-03-2009, 09:33 AM
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AT&T should let them walk. Move some of the cell phone people over to the land line division and be done with it. It is almost as if the landline people laid themselves off.
Cell phone people have no clue about dial tone or special circuits. They would be better off letting it ride for few days or a week, there will be plenty of scab workers by then.

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post #10 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-03-2009, 09:38 AM
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I guess I need to do research on Unions. Are they "protected"?

I mean, in this current Economy, I can't believe people have the nuts to walk off the job to prove a point. So many people are looking for jobs they could all be replaced.
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post #11 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-03-2009, 09:59 AM
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We need to pull a Ronnie Regan on these mofos
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post #12 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-05-2009, 09:11 PM
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The AT&T landline union folks are prepared to walk off the job at midnight on saturday. As you may or may not know, the landline business has been shedding customers right and left, people are having the service disconnected and are using their cel phones instead to save money.

So, 1000,000 AT&T landline operations union people are now demanding more money and better benefits from AT&T.



The union always wants more even when business conditions clearly dictate that more is not possible.

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dw....9672f0d2.html

well I work for at&t and I can tell you I don't want a strike but what they want to do to the workers is not even close to fair. The union isn't asking for more than what they have always been given, a cost of living increase every year and the same benefits.

What the company doesn't say is that the land line side is shrinking, the Uverse and digital phones are growing at a rate that we can not keep up with. The goal for uverse was to have a million customers by this month, we reached that goal back in November.

AT&T also has been in the black for the last 4 years. They have 17 billion dollars they want to use to invest in the company, this includes those big bonuses of the top 200 exec's.

I have been with them for 6yrs and can tell you that if the strike happens it will be more than likely 2 months and there will be a lock out by at&t, but also the people waiting for their service to be installed or fixed will be waiting a very long time, the current wait for new service is about 4 weeks it would move to 7 to 10 weeks if a strike takes place.

this one will be nasty, but from what I found out if the strike takes more than 30 days the union has to help pay my house and car note as well as the 300 for walking the lines. I can get a part time job in the mean time, a few temp services have sent most of AT&T employees info on it.

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post #13 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-05-2009, 10:03 PM Thread Starter
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well I work for at&t and I can tell you I don't want a strike but what they want to do to the workers is not even close to fair. The union isn't asking for more than what they have always been given, a cost of living increase every year and the same benefits.

What the company doesn't say is that the land line side is shrinking, the Uverse and digital phones are growing at a rate that we can not keep up with. The goal for uverse was to have a million customers by this month, we reached that goal back in November.

AT&T also has been in the black for the last 4 years. They have 17 billion dollars they want to use to invest in the company, this includes those big bonuses of the top 200 exec's.

I have been with them for 6yrs and can tell you that if the strike happens it will be more than likely 2 months and there will be a lock out by at&t, but also the people waiting for their service to be installed or fixed will be waiting a very long time, the current wait for new service is about 4 weeks it would move to 7 to 10 weeks if a strike takes place.

this one will be nasty, but from what I found out if the strike takes more than 30 days the union has to help pay my house and car note as well as the 300 for walking the lines. I can get a part time job in the mean time, a few temp services have sent most of AT&T employees info on it.
Well, from the outside view you guys are playing with a weak hand. The declining business model says so. I'm sure that at&t knows this as well, which is why they aren't willing to give much. A prolonged strike will only piss off the customers that you still have; if they are forced to endure a strike they will simply have the phone removed, or switch to a digital phone.

You guys were gouging me for $85/month. I switched to vonage and i'm paying $100/year for phone service, including unlimited long distance.

Good luck with your union action.
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post #14 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-05-2009, 10:31 PM
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Well, from the outside view you guys are playing with a weak hand. The declining business model says so. I'm sure that at&t knows this as well, which is why they aren't willing to give much. A prolonged strike will only piss off the customers that you still have; if they are forced to endure a strike they will simply have the phone removed, or switch to a digital phone.

You guys were gouging me for $85/month. I switched to vonage and i'm paying $100/year for phone service, including unlimited long distance.

Good luck with your union action.
I have a good friend that works for AT&T, and he's kept me informed. Hate them if you want, but what AT&T wants them to take is ridiculous. If you work for a major corporation in this country, you should have solid health care benefits and some cost of living increase each year. The company is profitable, so there's no excuse. My friend still routinely logs close to 50 hours a week minimum. If it's so bad, why are they getting so much overtime?

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post #15 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-05-2009, 10:41 PM
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I am a CST for at&t and we are not asking for more money, at&t is trying to lower our pay rate, and from I have heard it like 40-60% and also make us start paying for benifits. I ahve no problem paying for benifits but lowering my hourly rate is BS. Also they are threating all the people who were hiried on in the past 3-4 yrs as a Temp Full time instead of permenant full time they will need ot report to work during the strike or they will be contract terminted, even though they are Paying union members and have all the same benifits as a perm full time.
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post #16 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-05-2009, 10:44 PM
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Well, from the outside view you guys are playing with a weak hand. The declining business model says so. I'm sure that at&t knows this as well, which is why they aren't willing to give much. A prolonged strike will only piss off the customers that you still have; if they are forced to endure a strike they will simply have the phone removed, or switch to a digital phone.

You guys were gouging me for $85/month. I switched to vonage and i'm paying $100/year for phone service, including unlimited long distance.

Good luck with your union action.
And if they decide to switch to a digital phone during a strike they will most likely have to wait for us to come off strike. They will need one of us to go out and put in the dry loop dsl that will run that VOIP phone line. You can't just call in and have the Dial tone removed if you have DT and DSL, they have us put in a completly new dsl CKT.



And yes they force us to work OT all week long. We always have atleast 8 hrs a week. And they profit well into the billions each year but want us to take a pay cut and pay for benifits?
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post #17 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-05-2009, 11:14 PM
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well I work for at&t and I can tell you I don't want a strike but what they want to do to the workers is not even close to fair. The union isn't asking for more than what they have always been given, a cost of living increase every year and the same benefits.

What the company doesn't say is that the land line side is shrinking, the Uverse and digital phones are growing at a rate that we can not keep up with. The goal for uverse was to have a million customers by this month, we reached that goal back in November.

AT&T also has been in the black for the last 4 years. They have 17 billion dollars they want to use to invest in the company, this includes those big bonuses of the top 200 exec's.
I love it when people cry about what the exec's make. You wouldn't last a day doing their job (most people, not you specifically) so don't complain about how much they make.

If land line profits are shrinking they have to cut expenses on that side of the business, simple math people.

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I have a good friend that works for AT&T, and he's kept me informed. Hate them if you want, but what AT&T wants them to take is ridiculous. If you work for a major corporation in this country, you should have solid health care benefits and some cost of living increase each year. The company is profitable, so there's no excuse. My friend still routinely logs close to 50 hours a week minimum. If it's so bad, why are they getting so much overtime?
You are full of shit! Just because the company is big you deserve a pay increase? Did you miss the part about land line business shrinking?

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I am a CST for at&t and we are not asking for more money, at&t is trying to lower our pay rate, and from I have heard it like 40-60% and also make us start paying for benifits. I ahve no problem paying for benifits but lowering my hourly rate is BS. Also they are threating all the people who were hiried on in the past 3-4 yrs as a Temp Full time instead of permenant full time they will need ot report to work during the strike or they will be contract terminted, even though they are Paying union members and have all the same benifits as a perm full time.
Just to be clear (two of you are contradicting) are they cutting pay or not giving increases?

I don't get it... the company is doing what it takes to stay profitable, that is why they are in business, they sure as hell aren't in business so you can be gainfully employed. I think there should be a trade of a fair day's work for a fair day's pay. If they want to pay you less then leave and go find a better paying job, or work harder to prove you have earned your pay and will continue to.

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post #18 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 06:00 AM
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You are full of shit! Just because the company is big you deserve a pay increase? Did you miss the part about land line business shrinking?
No, not because a company is big -- because it is very profitable at the hands of people working 50-60 hours a week or more. Try being a little more educated on the subject before posting more mindless BS. If AT&T is making money, then they should be responsible to the employees that helped them to get there.

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post #19 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 06:28 AM
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You should be entitled to nothing. If you don't like what's being done within the company, find another job. It's pretty simple. "Entitlement" leads to laziness and inefficiency.

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post #20 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 06:48 AM
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I am a CST for at&t and we are not asking for more money, at&t is trying to lower our pay rate, and from I have heard it like 40-60% and also make us start paying for benifits. I ahve no problem paying for benifits but lowering my hourly rate is BS. Also they are threating all the people who were hiried on in the past 3-4 yrs as a Temp Full time instead of permenant full time they will need ot report to work during the strike or they will be contract terminted, even though they are Paying union members and have all the same benifits as a perm full time.
Wow the union boys are feeding you a line of shit. Basically, the company wants union people to start paying for your benefits. This would decrease you take home pay but not by 40-60%. Remember about 5 years ago when management was forced to pay for their benefits, the union new then at the next contract that they would have to make that same sacrifice.

As for the temp full time premise tech, it would be a violation for them to work.

Besides, your at work this morning under no contract correct?

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post #21 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 06:56 AM
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I have been with them for 6yrs and can tell you that if the strike happens it will be more than likely 2 months and there will be a lock out by at&t, but also the people waiting for their service to be installed or fixed will be waiting a very long time, the current wait for new service is about 4 weeks it would move to 7 to 10 weeks if a strike takes place.

this one will be nasty, but from what I found out if the strike takes more than 30 days the union has to help pay my house and car note as well as the 300 for walking the lines. I can get a part time job in the mean time, a few temp services have sent most of AT&T employees info on it.
2 months really wtf are you smoking. Your union aint got the balls to walk out for that long, and if you did lets say for just 1 month it would take you over a year to get back to where you were financially, and that's assuming that you get a raise. Good luck with that strike pay. LOL Do me a favor while your at work today without a contract ask some old timer about the "Big Potato's Strike" back in the '80s.

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Bullet sort of looses his grip when he factually gets his ass tore off.
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post #22 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 07:40 AM
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No, not because a company is big -- because it is very profitable at the hands of people working 50-60 hours a week or more. Try being a little more educated on the subject before posting more mindless BS. If AT&T is making money, then they should be responsible to the employees that helped them to get there.
I donít need to know the details of the AT&T issue to know your statement is an entitlement-minded response to a dose of reality in the current economy. There has been conflicting information so feel free to educate me with some details. It most likely wonít change my opinion, but I would love to know exactly what they are asking their employees to take.

You said ďIf you work for a major corporation in this country, you should have solid health care benefits and some cost of living increase each year.Ē. Wake up and look around, because there are thousands of people just like you and me that lost all their benefits and ALL of their pay this year. Your buddy is going to have to make some adjustments in his lifestyle, possibly very big and uncomfortable ones, but he still has a job. He can continue to complain and take his job for granted or he can thank God that he is not standing in the unemployment line.

I will admit this is easier said when not sitting in the way of a possible salary cut, and if it were me I would be upset as well. Iím not saying I would not feel the same as him for a while, but in the end I know who to thank for my paycheck, no matter how much it is.

BTW, way too much overtime. Iím sure it would piss off employees if they cut that because they have probably gotten used to the money, but not a traditionally solid business model IMO. Theoretically they could save money just by hiring a few new employees.

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post #23 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 08:32 AM Thread Starter
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And if they decide to switch to a digital phone during a strike they will most likely have to wait for us to come off strike. They will need one of us to go out and put in the dry loop dsl that will run that VOIP phone line. You can't just call in and have the Dial tone removed if you have DT and DSL, they have us put in a completly new dsl CKT.
Not necessarily. When my vonage equipment arrived I plugged it into the router attached to my cable modem. A lot of people already have high speed internet service so the switch for them would be easy. And, if I called and canceled my phone service as of a certain date there is no way in hell I would pay for it after that date regardless of whether the service had been disconnected from your end yet. Not my problem.

I'm not unsympathetic to the average at&t worker, but being in a union does not isolate you from economic conditions or the current business climate. You are working for the side of a business that is steadily losing customers. If you guys manage to negotiate the same benefits as you had on the last contract i'd be surprised. Wake up and look around - there are thousands and thousands of people out of work right now, many who had the same ideas that you are espousing about what they are entitled to, and what the company should do. Be thankful you have ANY kind of job right now, and go in with an attitude of what can I do for my employer today, instead of the union's attitude that they are owed something by the company.
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post #24 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 08:39 AM
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Wow the union boys are feeding you a line of shit. Basically, the company wants union people to start paying for your benefits. This would decrease you take home pay but not by 40-60%. Remember about 5 years ago when management was forced to pay for their benefits, the union new then at the next contract that they would have to make that same sacrifice.

As for the temp full time premise tech, it would be a violation for them to work.

Besides, your at work this morning under no contract correct?

I am not talking about prem techs. I am talking about CST's who are making the same pay as a Perm CST. Do you know what a CST makes verses a prem tech? From what I have heard they are trying to take us down to about $2-4 higher than a prem techs top pay which is still under 20hr.



I was told that any temp full time would have to cross the line because they under contract with at&t not the union, and if they did not report to work they would be contract terminated.





And for Slow06,

I was told they would cut the pay and then still make us pay for benifits. And why find a better job when the job with at&t is fine.
Would you climb a pole in the rain or crawl an attick, go inside a manhole or open pit to fix a bad splice? Everyone at work feels we not overpaid but compensated just fine, without OT everyone has got used to what they are making and living on, but how can be expected to perform the same job for 40-60% less pay?

Like a have said before I am fine with paying for benifits, but don't hit us for a pay cut and benifits. 1 or the other but not both. I can handle a 2-4 hr pay cut but not a 10-12 hr.





Just to be clear, I don't want any more money from the company, and I happy with the job. Honestly I wish this crap was going on, and we could just continue on like we have been for the past few years.

Last edited by DFWtechie; 04-06-2009 at 08:46 AM.
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post #25 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 08:40 AM
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If you work for AT&T and you think you are valuable and deserve more money then go get a job somewhere else. I think you may find out exactly how valuable you are.
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post #26 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 08:46 AM
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And for Slow06,

I was told they would cut the pay and then still make us pay for benifits. And why find a better job when the job with at&t is fine.
Would you climb a pole in the rain or crawl an attick, go inside a manhole or open pit to fix a bad splice? Everyone at work feels we not overpaid but compensated just fine, without OT everyone has got used to what they are making and living on, but how can be expected to perform the same job for 40-60% less pay?
QUOTE]





I think what's being implied is that you were lied to. Who told you they were going to cut your pay 40-60% and make you pay benefits. I really believe someone is lying to you. Is there a copy of the new agreement that you read?
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post #27 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 08:54 AM Thread Starter
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If you work for AT&T and you think you are valuable and deserve more money then go get a job somewhere else. I think you may find out exactly how valuable you are.
Best advice in the whole thread. Go ahead and put your resume out there along with your salary requirements, and see how many bites you get on it.
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post #28 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 09:01 AM
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Best advice in the whole thread. Go ahead and put your resume out there along with your salary requirements, and see how many bites you get on it.
Surely these people who deserve more money can easily get it. They are skilled workers, right? That's how the free market works. I get a fat ass paycheck twice a month because I know what the hell I am doing. I don't even have a union, I wonder why that is?
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post #29 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 09:06 AM Thread Starter
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Surely these people who deserve more money can easily get it. They are skilled workers, right? That's how the free market works. I get a fat ass paycheck twice a month because I know what the hell I am doing. I don't even have a union, I wonder why that is?
Well, judging by some of the comments in this thread I do believe that you are correct, some people are clearly being undercompensated for long hours, and should be making a lot more. It's just not fair.

If the union can't get it for them then surely they can find a job on the open market that satisfies their salary requirements. I mean, their qualifications are undeniable!

I say go for it!
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post #30 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 09:12 AM
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I say go for it!
Let the big bucks start rolling in.
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post #31 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 09:24 AM
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Question, is the profit coming from the PSTN service or the other portions of AT&T?

The reason I ask...just because the company is profiting does not mean that the whole company should be rewarded if a division/section is suffering - that section should be treated seperately. POTS is going downhill fast. At this point I don't see it being DEAD in the near future, but it is going to continue being less and less useful with VOIP/Cell Phones getting better and better. The folks trying to cling to that technology need to update their knowledge to survive. I know this first hand based on my career field.

Also, my region did not post good numbers so our bonuses..etc reflected it. While other regions may have met their numbers or exceeded them as the company made a profit. Do I expect to get a righteous bonus since the company profitted? No. The area that falls under my responsibility did not cut it, so we're going to pay our dues and drive on even harder.

I have the joy of working with the AT&T folks quite often for FXO and PRI sevice to various customers of ours. I've never had a cut go 100% smooth.

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post #32 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 09:32 AM
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Not necessarily. When my vonage equipment arrived I plugged it into the router attached to my cable modem. A lot of people already have high speed internet service so the switch for them would be easy. And, if I called and canceled my phone service as of a certain date there is no way in hell I would pay for it after that date regardless of whether the service had been disconnected from your end yet. Not my problem.
On a side note, how would the vonage system work with a home alarm that uses the phone line to report a signal? Do you have to use a cellular setup for the home alarm?
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post #33 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 09:35 AM
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I am not talking about prem techs. I am talking about CST's who are making the same pay as a Perm CST. Do you know what a CST makes verses a prem tech? From what I have heard they are trying to take us down to about $2-4 higher than a prem techs top pay which is still under 20hr.



I was told that any temp full time would have to cross the line because they under contract with at&t not the union, and if they did not report to work they would be contract terminated.





And for Slow06,

I was told they would cut the pay and then still make us pay for benifits. And why find a better job when the job with at&t is fine.
Would you climb a pole in the rain or crawl an attick, go inside a manhole or open pit to fix a bad splice? Everyone at work feels we not overpaid but compensated just fine, without OT everyone has got used to what they are making and living on, but how can be expected to perform the same job for 40-60% less pay?

Like a have said before I am fine with paying for benifits, but don't hit us for a pay cut and benifits. 1 or the other but not both. I can handle a 2-4 hr pay cut but not a 10-12 hr.





Just to be clear, I don't want any more money from the company, and I happy with the job. Honestly I wish this crap was going on, and we could just continue on like we have been for the past few years.
Yes I do know what a cst makes and I also know what a premise tech makes there is about 7-10/hr diff.

All employees work under contract with the COMPANY not the union, they are your bargaining party, God help you if they have to represent you.

A CST has a lot more to his/her job than a premise tech therefore it is paid more. I don't believe that the company is going to cut pay, they are trying to cover cost of the benefits.

But, lets say they did cut your pay to just above a premise tech that would be BAD. Remember this union that you give your money to allowed these techs to work for the company and learn your job at a lower rate of pay. This was also bad and a stupid move on the part of the union.

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post #34 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 09:43 AM
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Question, is the profit coming from the PSTN service or the other portions of AT&T?

The reason I ask...just because the company is profiting does not mean that the whole company should be rewarded if a division/section is suffering - that section should be treated seperately. POTS is going downhill fast. At this point I don't see it being DEAD in the near future, but it is going to continue being less and less useful with VOIP/Cell Phones getting better and better. The folks trying to cling to that technology need to update their knowledge to survive. I know this first hand based on my career field.
I have always thought that in the future ATT will spin this group off or just contract it out. It is tough for me to see how POTS can be making a profit. Its been going down hill since the deregulation from the late '90s Thank you Clinton. Every body and the dog can have a phone company and ATT has to sell it to them at a cut rate while still maintaining it. Not a good way to make money.

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Bullet sort of looses his grip when he factually gets his ass tore off.
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post #35 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 09:43 AM
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Fuck them. Same with Detroit. Write a contract for the unions, take it or leave it. If they walk, I'm sure they can fill those jobs up right now with in a month.

I haven't had a land line in 5 years.

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post #36 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
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On a side note, how would the vonage system work with a home alarm that uses the phone line to report a signal? Do you have to use a cellular setup for the home alarm?
Works just fine. I did have to rewire the phone wiring at the alarm panel since it can "sieze" the line to make a call. I just wired it straight to the interior wiring, and have the vonage box plugged into the interior wiring as well with one of those two phone line adapters. A phone plugs into one side of the adapter and the vonage box plugs into the other side, and then the adapter is plugged into the wall. All of the phones work normally.

Otherwise, you'd have to wire the vonage box to the old "input" side of the phone wiring for it to be able to seize the line.

Also, my tivo updated itself over the vonage just fine as well.
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post #37 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 11:16 AM
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I was told they would cut the pay and then still make us pay for benifits. And why find a better job when the job with at&t is fine.
Would you climb a pole in the rain or crawl an attick, go inside a manhole or open pit to fix a bad splice? Everyone at work feels we not overpaid but compensated just fine, without OT everyone has got used to what they are making and living on, but how can be expected to perform the same job for 40-60% less pay?

Like a have said before I am fine with paying for benifits, but don't hit us for a pay cut and benifits. 1 or the other but not both. I can handle a 2-4 hr pay cut but not a 10-12 hr.
I just meant if you aren't happy with your pay (cut) and you think you are worth more then go get it. Like Al P said you will find out very quickly if you are right or not. I would happily pay the going rate to have you do any of the tasks mentioned above if I needed them done, you won't catch me messing with stuff like that.

It is bad timing to hit you with a pay cut and paying for benefits at the same time, I can understand being frustrated about that. My issue was certain people thinking they are owed a raise every year. I see it at my company all the time and it just pisses me off.

Tell me this, could you get the pay and benefits you have now doing the exact same job somewhere else?

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post #38 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-06-2009, 12:40 PM
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Works just fine. I did have to rewire the phone wiring at the alarm panel since it can "sieze" the line to make a call. I just wired it straight to the interior wiring, and have the vonage box plugged into the interior wiring as well with one of those two phone line adapters. A phone plugs into one side of the adapter and the vonage box plugs into the other side, and then the adapter is plugged into the wall. All of the phones work normally.

Otherwise, you'd have to wire the vonage box to the old "input" side of the phone wiring for it to be able to seize the line.

Also, my tivo updated itself over the vonage just fine as well.
Good info! Thx.
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post #39 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 12:57 PM
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I love it when people cry about what the exec's make. You wouldn't last a day doing their job (most people, not you specifically) so don't complain about how much they make.

If land line profits are shrinking they have to cut expenses on that side of the business, simple math people.



You are full of shit! Just because the company is big you deserve a pay increase? Did you miss the part about land line business shrinking?



Just to be clear (two of you are contradicting) are they cutting pay or not giving increases?

I don't get it... the company is doing what it takes to stay profitable, that is why they are in business, they sure as hell aren't in business so you can be gainfully employed. I think there should be a trade of a fair day's work for a fair day's pay. If they want to pay you less then leave and go find a better paying job, or work harder to prove you have earned your pay and will continue to.
Land lines are shrinking for every company, because VOIP is not considered a land line. What they didn't tell you is that the Uverse system is taking off at a pace we can not keep up with, the number of cell phones sales and Uverse installs more than cover all the land line lost and then some. They are using this as way to look like the company is in trouble, when in fact since I have been there we have been in the black, and not by just a small margin but enough so that the buy out of Bell South was done in cash, and the Direct TV merger was also in cash.

Now as for what was offered to the employees.

60% of your current pay is promised(no matter what) but to get your full pay you would have to meet 100%+ of your goal depending on your dept, 100% of your adherence(means you take your break at the exact time and come back at the exact time and no visit to the RR during any other time[ we are working mandatory OT working 10hrs knowing you will have to use the RR more than 3 times in a day] if you are stuck with a customer you can't put them off to somebody else or tell them to call back or have the manger correct your time due to you doing your job), and if you are on the phone you have average time to be off the phone with customers you have to meet 100%+. All of that just to get what I am getting now. there isn't a single person in the company that would be able to get 100% of their pay with that set up. that is the cut he was talking about.

the company isn't shrinking, the company is hiring over 7000 people to try and help us with the uverse side of it. we are so understaffed and not able to truly help the customers we have now that if the strike does come you are talking about 300 people in my job area going all the way down to 40 people to try and handle what we can not handle now. The company will see how much they need us to do our jobs to make those customers stay and allow for us to have new ones.

as for the 2 months strike, from what I hear is that it will not only be a strike but a lockout. from what I hear, also is that we are wanting to go before an arbitrator to settle this contract dispute, but AT&T doesn't, because they have to open all books at that time and show the world how much they profit and how little they spend on those of us that make the company go.

we aren't asking for anything more than what we have gotten every year, a cost of living increase and same benefits.


I have worked jobs that weren't union, and I don't really care for the union now, but they are asking for what anybody would ask for no matter who they work for.

AL P you expect a raise if you do your job or are you content with the same pay from now till you retire or get a new job?

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post #40 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 01:07 PM
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We had a company-wide wage freeze for fiscal 2009 because of the economy. No raises for anybody.

Oh, we also pay for some of our benefits.

Ya...I'm having a hard time shedding a tear over this.

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post #41 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 01:11 PM
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We had a company-wide wage freeze for fiscal 2009 because of the economy. No raises for anybody.

Oh, we also pay for some of our benefits.

Ya...I'm having a hard time shedding a tear over this.
did your company make over 12 billion in profit last year and been in the black for at least 6yrs now?

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post #42 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 01:17 PM
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did your company make over 12 billion in profit last year and been in the black for at least 6yrs now?
Did the landline people make $12 billion profit or is it the entire company?
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post #43 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 01:23 PM
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Did the landline people make $12 billion profit or is it the entire company?
the contract isn't for just landline people it is for Uverse and techs, the only part that isn't in the contract is wireless they work on a different contract. so this is for the both the declining part and the new and fast growing part of the company, I work on the Uverse side now and trust me after working the Telco side and now this side it is clear we are not hurting. We have a 3 week wait just to get you installed, we can't even get new areas set up to be able to have Uverse because we are so backed up right now. A strike will hurt them on that side and it will effect their bottom dollar.

the only thing the union is fighting for that i wish they would drop is the benefits of the retired people. but everything else they are fighting for I agree with.

also the 12 billion doesn't include the cell phone side of it, this is all based off landlines and uverse

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post #44 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 01:26 PM Thread Starter
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did your company make over 12 billion in profit last year and been in the black for at least 6yrs now?
You are confusing how companies really work. Did the landline division substantially contribute to the 12 billion, or was it mostly uverse/dsl?

I guarantee you that upper management is keenly aware of the various divisions within the company, be them land line, uverse, dsl, or whatever - and which ones are profitable, and which ones are becoming less profitable. In fact, i'll bet that management reports are rolled up and tallied the same way. So the uverse division is wildly profitable, the dsl division is profitable, and the land line division is on a swing from profitable to break even (or worse).

And, i'll bet that the divisions are led by different managers. A manager is always under pressure to get his little slice of the company to perform. His own bonus probably hinges on specific profit goals for the division. The manager over the landline division is under tremendous pressure to make that division show a profit, even with a shrinking customer base. A manager that presides over a business unit that is losing revenue gets replaced.

THIS is why the union bargaining will gain little traction. You happen to be on the sinking cororate ship, which has nothing to do with the other ships that AT&T is operating. I expect a very long lockout for you guys, followed by the hiring of replacement workers at a lower wage. Remember the air traffic controllers? There are plenty of people willing and able to work right now, who would be happy to take your job.

Sucks, but if you could transfer to the uverse division now would be the time to do it.
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post #45 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 01:32 PM
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the girl i am datings mom is an ATT employee and we've had some discussions about union vs non union and what I feel vs what she feels as a union employee.

You don't discuss religion at work, salary at work, or union stuff with a union supporter....no one is going to change their mind.
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post #46 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 01:32 PM
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I work for AT&T as well. The union peeps are geting greedy. No mgnt got spay raise this year. Just like a lot of people in the rest of the country.

After the strike if there is one I almost bet it will be a limp sum like $800 min for most of them.


As far as benifits the union peeps should pay at least some and it will go based on what u make a year like 8 percent. If you read the updates they send out the union peeps will not be paying that much at all. Read up and learn what has been offered!

I can tell you this almost any big fortune 500 company that you work for these days they make you pay for some type of benefits.

Look at the unions of the big three theymade adjustments to save there jobs. Why can't the union at AT&T?it does not matter we are making money & they are losing money.
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post #47 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 01:36 PM
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As far as a lockout in Texas he can't do that this is a right to work state. So if you do strike after it's over you can come back but the union peeps will still have to pay for some benifits and you strikes for nothing
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post #48 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 01:51 PM
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You are confusing how companies really work. Did the landline division substantially contribute to the 12 billion, or was it mostly uverse/dsl?

I guarantee you that upper management is keenly aware of the various divisions within the company, be them land line, uverse, dsl, or whatever - and which ones are profitable, and which ones are becoming less profitable. In fact, i'll bet that management reports are rolled up and tallied the same way. So the uverse division is wildly profitable, the dsl division is profitable, and the land line division is on a swing from profitable to break even (or worse).

And, i'll bet that the divisions are led by different managers. A manager is always under pressure to get his little slice of the company to perform. His own bonus probably hinges on specific profit goals for the division. The manager over the landline division is under tremendous pressure to make that division show a profit, even with a shrinking customer base. A manager that presides over a business unit that is losing revenue gets replaced.

THIS is why the union bargaining will gain little traction. You happen to be on the sinking cororate ship, which has nothing to do with the other ships that AT&T is operating. I expect a very long lockout for you guys, followed by the hiring of replacement workers at a lower wage. Remember the air traffic controllers? There are plenty of people willing and able to work right now, who would be happy to take your job.

Sucks, but if you could transfer to the uverse division now would be the time to do it.

Landline and Uverse are both the same company and contract, I used to work telco now work Uverse side. But we are based off telco pay scale and contract, and AT&T doesn't want to split the two up because it can use whichever side is sliding down to make it look bad for the company to get people like you that think the workers who do the job aren't as important as those higher ups who "manage" those same workers.

Again they aren't asking for anything more than what we have had in the past. I could care less about the union, they seem to only care about the black people in my building, while the whites and hispanics have to fend for themselves. I am sure it isn't that way in every building but it is clear in my building who they fight hard for and who they don't.

I don't want a strike I just want the same contract I have been working under for the last 5yrs.

Also on another note you do know that the top 200 don't pay for health care for their families, get free service and if stay for the required time period get all that for free for life, yet I am supposed to accept less then what I have been getting because my job title isn't CEO?

I am not asking for free service or even benefits when I retire I just want what I have had the last 5yrs.

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post #49 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 01:55 PM
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We had a company-wide wage freeze for fiscal 2009 because of the economy. No raises for anybody.

Oh, we also pay for some of our benefits.

Ya...I'm having a hard time shedding a tear over this.
we have that as well at at&t nobody got a raise at least to the levels I see everyday which is about 5 to 7 levels below CEO, and we all gave up our bonus this year as well, I think the union didn't have it in the contract for this year on our side but mangement was told they aren't getting one as well.

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post #50 of 109 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 01:56 PM
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I am not asking for free service or even benefits when I retire I just want what I have had the last 5yrs.
Just because you are union, why should you receive benefits after you retire? Do I get any benefits from the company I am at if I retire?
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