Oopz Obama: Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S. - DFWstangs Forums
 
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-02-2009, 09:24 AM Thread Starter
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Oopz Obama: Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S.

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The Myth of 90 Percent: Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S.

While 90 percent of the guns traced to the U.S. actually originated in the United States, the percent traced to the U.S. is only about 17 percent of the total number of guns reaching Mexico.

You've heard this shocking "fact" before -- on TV and radio, in newspapers, on the Internet and from the highest politicians in the land: 90 percent of the weapons used to commit crimes in Mexico come from the United States.

-- Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said it to reporters on a flight to Mexico City.

-- CBS newsman Bob Schieffer referred to it while interviewing President Obama.

-- California Sen. Dianne Feinstein said at a Senate hearing: "It is unacceptable to have 90 percent of the guns that are picked up in Mexico and used to shoot judges, police officers and mayors ... come from the United States."

-- William Hoover, assistant director for field operations at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, testified in the House of Representatives that "there is more than enough evidence to indicate that over 90 percent of the firearms that have either been recovered in, or interdicted in transport to Mexico, originated from various sources within the United States."

There's just one problem with the 90 percent "statistic" and it's a big one:

It's just not true.

In fact, it's not even close. By all accounts, it's probably around 17 percent.

What's true, an ATF spokeswoman told FOXNews.com, in a clarification of the statistic used by her own agency's assistant director, "is that over 90 percent of the traced firearms originate from the U.S."

But a large percentage of the guns recovered in Mexico do not get sent back to the U.S. for tracing, because it is obvious from their markings that they do not come from the U.S.

"Not every weapon seized in Mexico has a serial number on it that would make it traceable, and the U.S. effort to trace weapons really only extends to weapons that have been in the U.S. market," Matt Allen, special agent of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), told FOX News.

A Look at the Numbers

In 2007-2008, according to ATF Special Agent William Newell, Mexico submitted 11,000 guns to the ATF for tracing. Close to 6,000 were successfully traced -- and of those, 90 percent -- 5,114 to be exact, according to testimony in Congress by William Hoover -- were found to have come from the U.S.

But in those same two years, according to the Mexican government, 29,000 guns were recovered at crime scenes.


In other words, 68 percent of the guns that were recovered were never submitted for tracing. And when you weed out the roughly 6,000 guns that could not be traced from the remaining 32 percent, it means 83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced to the U.S.

So, if not from the U.S., where do they come from? There are a variety of sources:

-- The Black Market. Mexico is a virtual arms bazaar, with fragmentation grenades from South Korea, AK-47s from China, and shoulder-fired rocket launchers from Spain, Israel and former Soviet bloc manufacturers.

-- Russian crime organizations. Interpol says Russian Mafia groups such as Poldolskaya and Moscow-based Solntsevskaya are actively trafficking drugs and arms in Mexico.

- South America. During the late 1990s, the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) established a clandestine arms smuggling and drug trafficking partnership with the Tijuana cartel, according to the Federal Research Division report from the Library of Congress.

-- Asia. According to a 2006 Amnesty International Report, China has provided arms to countries in Asia, Africa and Latin America. Chinese assault weapons and Korean explosives have been recovered in Mexico.

-- The Mexican Army. More than 150,000 soldiers deserted in the last six years, according to Mexican Congressman Robert Badillo. Many took their weapons with them, including the standard issue M-16 assault rifle made in Belgium.

-- Guatemala. U.S. intelligence agencies say traffickers move immigrants, stolen cars, guns and drugs, including most of America's cocaine, along the porous Mexican-Guatemalan border. On March 27, La Hora, a Guatemalan newspaper, reported that police seized 500 grenades and a load of AK-47s on the border. Police say the cache was transported by a Mexican drug cartel operating out of Ixcan, a border town.

'These Don't Come From El Paso'

Ed Head, a firearms instructor in Arizona who spent 24 years with the U.S. Border Patrol, recently displayed an array of weapons considered "assault rifles" that are similar to those recovered in Mexico, but are unavailable for sale in the U.S.

"These kinds of guns -- the auto versions of these guns -- they are not coming from El Paso," he said. "They are coming from other sources. They are brought in from Guatemala. They are brought in from places like China. They are being diverted from the military. But you don't get these guns from the U.S."

Some guns, he said, "are legitimately shipped to the government of Mexico, by Colt, for example, in the United States. They are approved by the U.S. government for use by the Mexican military service. The guns end up in Mexico that way -- the fully auto versions -- they are not smuggled in across the river."

Many of the fully automatic weapons that have been seized in Mexico cannot be found in the U.S., but they are not uncommon in the Third World.

The Mexican government said it has seized 2,239 grenades in the last two years -- but those grenades and the rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs) are unavailable in U.S. gun shops. The ones used in an attack on the U.S. Consulate in Monterrey in October and a TV station in January were made in South Korea. Almost 70 similar grenades were seized in February in the bottom of a truck entering Mexico from Guatemala.

"Most of these weapons are being smuggled from Central American countries or by sea, eluding U.S. and Mexican monitors who are focused on the smuggling of semi-automatic and conventional weapons purchased from dealers in the U.S. border states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California," according to a report in the Los Angeles Times.

Boatloads of Weapons

So why would the Mexican drug cartels, which last year grossed between $17 billion and $38 billion, bother buying single-shot rifles, and force thousands of unknown "straw" buyers in the U.S. through a government background check, when they can buy boatloads of fully automatic M-16s and assault rifles from China, Israel or South Africa?

Alberto Islas, a security consultant who advises the Mexican government, says the drug cartels are using the Guatemalan border to move black market weapons. Some are left over from the Central American wars the United States helped fight; others, like the grenades and launchers, are South Korean, Israeli and Spanish. Some were legally supplied to the Mexican government; others were sold by corrupt military officers or officials.

The exaggeration of United States "responsibility" for the lawlessness in Mexico extends even beyond the "90-percent" falsehood -- and some Second Amendment activists believe it's designed to promote more restrictive gun-control laws in the U.S.

In a remarkable claim, Auturo Sarukhan, the Mexican ambassador to the U.S., said Mexico seizes 2,000 guns a day from the United States -- 730,000 a year. That's a far cry from the official statistic from the Mexican attorney general's office, which says Mexico seized 29,000 weapons in all of 2007 and 2008.

Chris Cox, spokesman for the National Rifle Association, blames the media and anti-gun politicians in the U.S. for misrepresenting where Mexican weapons come from.

"Reporter after politician after news anchor just disregards the truth on this," Cox said. "The numbers are intentionally used to weaken the Second Amendment."

"The predominant source of guns in Mexico is Central and South America. You also have Russian, Chinese and Israeli guns. It's estimated that over 100,000 soldiers deserted the army to work for the drug cartels, and that ignores all the police. How many of them took their weapons with them?"

But Tom Diaz, senior policy analyst at the Violence Policy Center, called the "90 percent" issue a red herring and said that it should not detract from the effort to stop gun trafficking into Mexico.

"Let's do what we can with what we know," he said. "We know that one hell of a lot of firearms come from the United States because our gun market is wide open."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elec...umber-claimed/

What? Wait? The media/Obama administration is manipulating data to distort the truth? Say it isn't so!

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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-02-2009, 09:26 AM
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Never! All of the guns in Mexico from the US, goddamnit!

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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-02-2009, 09:41 AM
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Obama would never lie... come on now...
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-02-2009, 09:43 AM
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wow.... all sorts of bullshit lies were thrown around by both Mexico and our worthless government.

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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-02-2009, 10:55 AM
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If Texans didn't have guns in their houses, the "drug war" would be in San Antonio instead of Nuevo Laredo...

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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-02-2009, 11:00 AM
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I wished Obama's mommy wouldn't have listened to Obama's Baby Daddy's lie "Of course I'm wearing protection, white whore"

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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-02-2009, 11:09 AM
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-02-2009, 11:44 AM
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I think a more accurate statistic would be "Of the 11,000 guns submitted for tracing, 46% (5,114) were traced back to the U.S." Still a decent chunk, but come on, we are right next to them. If they were bordering China and Russia I bet it would be more like 1%.
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-02-2009, 12:05 PM
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I think a more accurate statistic would be "Of the 11,000 guns submitted for tracing, 46% (5,114) were traced back to the U.S." Still a decent chunk, but come on, we are right next to them. If they were bordering China and Russia I bet it would be more like 1%.
Even then, the media would make that statistic seem like the 11,000 guns were the only ones confiscated when they are infact a great minority.
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-02-2009, 12:43 PM
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If Texans didn't have guns in their houses, the "drug war" would be in San Antonio instead of Nuevo Laredo...
And that's the way our enlightened leadership wants it, too. An armed populace is a deterrent to tyranny.
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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-02-2009, 12:54 PM
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You're all missing the point: guns kill Mexican judges.


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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-02-2009, 03:20 PM
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I don't care if, through some sort of magic, 130% percent of the guns in Mexico came from the U.S.

Fuck Mexico.

I like how our new administration lies about the amount of US guns in Mexico and how all of a sudden we should give a shit about what goes on in Mexico. Mexico has been waging economic warfare on our country for years and doesn't give a shit. Now all of a sudden I am supposed to care about what goes on down there? Hilarious.

And the NRA is absolutely correct, Obama is attempting to get the sheeple to buy this crap.

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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-02-2009, 07:33 PM
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Holder needs to make up his cocksucking mind
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Holder said the U.S. is not seeking to change any of its gun laws as part of the effort to curb weapons smuggling.

"I don't think our Second Amendment will stand in the way of what we have begun," he said.

Except to say that "too many weapons are flowing from the United States and into Mexico," Holder did not have a number of how many guns are smuggled across the border.

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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-03-2009, 08:50 AM
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I don't care if, through some sort of magic, 130% percent of the guns in Mexico came from the U.S.

Fuck Mexico.

I like how our new administration lies about the amount of US guns in Mexico and how all of a sudden we should give a shit about what goes on in Mexico. Mexico has been waging economic warfare on our country for years and doesn't give a shit. Now all of a sudden I am supposed to care about what goes on down there? Hilarious.

And the NRA is absolutely correct, Obama is attempting to get the sheeple to buy this crap.
The main source of Mexico's income is revenue from state owned Pemex (oil producer). The second source is tourism and the third source is money sent by immigrants in the US to their families in Mexico. Mexico's very existence depends on the US and yet they screw us over every chance they get. If you could stop the money flow back into Mexico you would stop the flow of illegals into the US.

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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-03-2009, 09:29 AM
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its hard to get exact crime statistics because so many crimes go unreported, you could go to just about any criminologist and get the numbers you want. naturally Mexico wants to blame the US for all the guns coming into their country, therefore they use statistics like this to get our attention.

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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-03-2009, 11:04 AM
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What? Wait? The media/Obama administration is manipulating data to distort the truth? Say it isn't so!
It's worse than that:

In San Diego, KGTV television's investigative unit used a forensic firearms consultant to inspect a Mexican army cache of seized weapons. Based on those findings, it was obvious to consultant Marc Halcon that what was being stated by government officials as fact and parroted by reporters was not accurate. In fact, he reported that while US gun shops were getting the blame for supplying the cartels with weapons, the real fact was that many of the high-powered weapons the criminals were using come from the U.S. government. They had been given to the Mexican military to fight the cartels. Instead, it appears they were taken to the cartels by the more than 1,200 soldiers per month who go AWOL from the Mexican army - apparently taking their firearms with them. Since 2000, an average of 16,000 soldiers have deserted.

-- from http://www.shootingwire.com/ 3 April, 2009

(scroll down to Finally Some Truth Leaks Out)


[email protected]#$%^&*!! Our own government gives full-automatic firearms to the Mexican Army, which issues them to soldiers who then desert to the cartels, taking their issue weapons along. Shit, if only 30% of the deserters are successful in carrying away their issue arms, that's still thousands of full-auto or burst-fire weapons in the wrong hands. Or arms we gave to Guatemala, Columbia, etc. to fight drug barons are sold to the barons by corrupt members of those foreign gov'ts, and smuggled into Mexico.

HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE UNTIL SOME OF THESE US GOV'T-SUPPLIED ARMS GET SMUGGLED BACK STATESIDE AND USED IN GANG WARFARE HERE? Can't you see Hillary, Holder & Co. shittin' bricks, and blaming "U.S. firearms dealers" when it happens?

Our gubmint is worse than Stalinist Russia: The Big Lie is in active use to justify renewing and tightening restrictions on citizens when the major, if not the fucking primary source of weapons used in Mexican drug warfare is good ole Uncle Sugar!

Our tax dollars at work, supplying full-auto shoulder arms to the rest of the world, while our congresscritters whine about fucking flash hiders, and that semi-automatic arms are even available to John Q. Public in the U.S.

Holy Shit.

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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-17-2009, 10:52 AM Thread Starter
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http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=320473

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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-17-2009, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by vtstang66 View Post
I think a more accurate statistic would be "Of the 11,000 guns submitted for tracing, 46% (5,114) were traced back to the U.S." Still a decent chunk, but come on, we are right next to them. If they were bordering China and Russia I bet it would be more like 1%.
When you say submitted, you mean guns Mexico sent us, because they believe it came from the US. So the only true thing is Mexican police can tell if a gun came from the US.

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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-17-2009, 09:07 PM
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its hard to get exact crime statistics because so many crimes go unreported, you could go to just about any criminologist and get the numbers you want. naturally Mexico wants to blame the US for all the guns coming into their country, therefore they use statistics like this to get our attention.

I'm starting to think you're just as big an idiot as gpamp. Mexico is not blaming the US. The US is blaming the US. Any chance you can get that straight before you attempt to twist more shit around to suit your agenda?
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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-18-2009, 09:31 AM
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If it is the fault of the US then why is Canada not in the same boat as Mexico??? oh yeah cuz Mexico is the problem thats why!
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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-18-2009, 01:08 PM
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Exactly. If the issue was the US, Canada would have roving gangs with fully automatic weapons and LAW's. But it's not us. Brick up that southern border, shoot anyone who crosses it. And then mine the bitch like North and South Korea did
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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-18-2009, 06:17 PM
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Exactly. If the issue was the US, Canada would have roving gangs with fully automatic weapons and LAW's. But it's not us. Brick up that southern border, shoot anyone who crosses it. And then mine the bitch like North and South Korea did
Ok lets say you do "brick up the southern border", is that going to stop the demand? Colombia is going to supply the US whether it be through mexico, florida, or canada, and if it were to be through canada, they too would probably have roving gangs with fully autos. But I guess you have to start somewhere.
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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-18-2009, 07:28 PM
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Ok lets say you do "brick up the southern border", is that going to stop the demand? Colombia is going to supply the US whether it be through mexico, florida, or canada, and if it were to be through canada, they too would probably have roving gangs with fully autos. But I guess you have to start somewhere.
The demand will always be there, so the best thing to do is make it too expensive for just anyone to purchase the drugs. It is too easy to bring drugs in now, so in turn shit is cheap. Make it harder, and bring supply down the price will naturally go up.

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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-18-2009, 07:42 PM
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The demand will always be there, so the best thing to do is make it too expensive for just anyone to purchase the drugs. It is too easy to bring drugs in now, so in turn shit is cheap. Make it harder, and bring supply down the price will naturally go up.
Legalize
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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-19-2009, 05:40 PM
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We really should be taxing for it instead of fining. It's a no brainer as to which offers more profit.

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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-21-2009, 09:11 PM
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I don't think you guys get the big picture.

Yes all this crap about Mexico getting full auto weapons from citizens from the U.S. is major B.S.

And yes the full auto M-16 did come from the U.S.......Government, as posted above.

The Democrats, liberals, Communists.... What ever you wish to call them, are just setting the stage to get you ready to tell you they signed a world wide ban on guns, and as members of the UN, we must pass the laws here too. (Happy frickin birthday!)

Oh. and just food for thought.... The "anti raciest meeting" The Obama just attended.... Guess what, you will loose your 1st amendment right with this one. And again, all in the name of being part of the U.N. (Merry frellin X-mass)


The only saving grace will be your congress man, and his vote on the issue. I would highly recommend you get word to them. The word being................. " Fuck the U.N.!"



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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-21-2009, 09:18 PM
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And there you have food for thought...


Plausible food for thought at that...
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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-21-2009, 09:24 PM
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We really should be taxing for it instead of fining. It's a no brainer as to which offers more profit.

You might find that is the other way around.



1. You get busted with a pound now, and they take everything you own. Your house, your cars, your checking, and savings account. This can add up to a lot.

2. Tax on a pound would be ??????? minimal in comparison.



All men should know Honor first, above all else!

Honor is not holding your hand out for something you did not earn.
Honor is not forcing your ideas, or belief on others.
Honor is not something given to you by way of job, or title.

Honor is learned, earned, practiced and respected by all decent men and women.
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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-23-2009, 07:03 AM
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You might find that is the other way around.



1. You get busted with a pound now, and they take everything you own. Your house, your cars, your checking, and savings account. This can add up to a lot.

2. Tax on a pound would be ??????? minimal in comparison.
Yeah but after they take your shit, they throw you in jail and feed and house you for however long. I don't have the figure in front of me of how much it costs to imprison someone for a year, but in typical government fashion, it's pretty fuckin' high.

Not to mention the guy who gets caught for a couple ounces and all the gov't gets is that, then they still house you for a year or two.
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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-23-2009, 08:17 AM
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Y'all have completely missed the point: Obama is all about the CHANGE!!!












Of course so were Hitler, Stalin, Castro, Noriega, Khomeini and Hussien

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post #31 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-24-2009, 05:30 AM
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Yeah but after they take your shit, they throw you in jail and feed and house you for however long. I don't have the figure in front of me of how much it costs to imprison someone for a year, but in typical government fashion, it's pretty fuckin' high.

Not to mention the guy who gets caught for a couple ounces and all the gov't gets is that, then they still house you for a year or two.

True. I did not think of that.

Too bad all prisons are not like the one in Arizona. They grow their own food, and actually work to pay off their debt and their stay in the prison.



All men should know Honor first, above all else!

Honor is not holding your hand out for something you did not earn.
Honor is not forcing your ideas, or belief on others.
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post #32 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-24-2009, 05:33 AM
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Y'all have completely missed the point: Obama is all about the CHANGE!!!




Yeah. He will get all of that too, if congress does not stop him.



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Honor is not forcing your ideas, or belief on others.
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