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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-03-2009, 09:40 PM Thread Starter
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Someone want to explain to me again why gas prices went back up?

...and also why the speculators aren't crooks? There never was a shortage, and never will be in our lifetime. Now, the surplus is GINORMOUS, and gas is still climbing some. $1 gas FTW!!! Bring it on.

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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 04:38 AM
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...and also why the speculators aren't crooks? There never was a shortage, and never will be in our lifetime. Now, the surplus is GINORMOUS, and gas is still climbing some. $1 gas FTW!!! Bring it on.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29495753
It's Dubya's fault. Hell, everything else is.

I know that refineries have cut back production, and that some are shut down for mandatory maintenance and federal inspections. My wife works for a refiner, and this is what I hear.

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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 04:44 AM
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It's Dubya's fault. Hell, everything else is.

I know that refineries have cut back production, and that some are shut down for mandatory maintenance and federal inspections. My wife works for a refiner, and this is what I hear.
Some did cut back for production, most like you said are doing mandatory maintenance and/or upgrades that the federal government required to "save the earth"

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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 05:17 AM
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It's Dubya's fault. Hell, everything else is.

I know that refineries have cut back production, and that some are shut down for mandatory maintenance and federal inspections. My wife works for a refiner, and this is what I hear.
Bush took the economy control switch with him when he left.
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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 06:04 AM Thread Starter
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It's Dubya's fault. Hell, everything else is.

I know that refineries have cut back production, and that some are shut down for mandatory maintenance and federal inspections. My wife works for a refiner, and this is what I hear.
I won't blame him for this one, although I'm sure he had no interest in cutting the price of oil since he has skin in that game. To me it just shows how bogus the price run up was. Everyone knew it, yet nothing was done or is being done about it. Gas is a commodity, yet it doesn't get treated like one. Something needs to be done about that system and about how oil is priced besides some speculators just sitting around deciding the price without really using supply/demand.

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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 06:04 AM
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Ed Wallace had a good article explaining Gas Prices..

Go educate yourself
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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 06:14 AM
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Ed Wallace had a good article explaining Gas Prices..

Go educate yourself
http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyl...n_id=rss_daily
I listen to Ed, but he can still be "hit or miss". He's so "pro-dealership", it's sickening. I enjoy listening, but I also take him with a grain of salt.

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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 06:34 AM
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I listen to Ed, but he can still be "hit or miss". He's so "pro-dealership", it's sickening. I enjoy listening, but I also take him with a grain of salt.
I agree with you that he is definitely pro dealer and even pro GM, but when it comes to the oil industry, he is almost always spot on.

For instance, he was talking about the speculative oil bubble long before anyone else in the news. Most people in the press tend to just parrot the press releases that they are given, Ed actually does some research. I got a kick out of how President Bush and his Energy Secretary kept saying that the price of oil and gas was being driven by high demand while the DoE's own website kept showing that demand was dropping like a brick. Ed was the only person I ever heard in the news that called them out on it. NONE of the MSM outlets got it.

Of course I also listen to his show. The Backside of American History alone is worth listening.

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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 06:38 AM
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I agree with you that he is definitely pro dealer and even pro GM, but when it comes to the oil industry, he is almost always spot on.

For instance, he was talking about the speculative oil bubble long before anyone else in the news. Most people in the press tend to just parrot the press releases that they are given, Ed actually does some research. I got a kick out of how President Bush and his Energy Secretary kept saying that the price of oil and gas was being driven by high demand while the DoE's own website kept showing that demand was dropping like a brick. Ed was the only person I ever heard in the news that called them out on it. NONE of the MSM outlets got it.

Of course I also listen to his show. The Backside of American History alone is worth listening.
I think his analysis on MTBE and Ethanol were/are dead on. I'm not, nor ever have been, a believer in Ethanol, largely due to the info I got from Ed. I do wish he would inject a little more performance info into his show.

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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 06:48 AM
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I think his analysis on MTBE and Ethanol were/are dead on. I'm not, nor ever have been, a believer in Ethanol, largely due to the info I got from Ed. I do wish he would inject a little more performance info into his show.
Tru dat...

I might not always agree with Ed (but I probably do 85 to 90% of the time) I do appreciate that he doesn't make ANY gratuitous assertions. He always has a lot of data to back up his arguments. That is something that I can't say about anyone else in Talk Radio. Not even the guys I like to listen too...

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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 08:06 AM
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...and also why the speculators aren't crooks? There never was a shortage, and never will be in our lifetime. Now, the surplus is GINORMOUS, and gas is still climbing some. $1 gas FTW!!! Bring it on.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29495753
Why sell oil at $38 a barrel when you can hold it for a few more months and get $52?

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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 08:11 AM
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Why sell oil at $38 a barrel when you can hold it for a few more months and get $52?
Why? Because the oil market is already in kantango. The speculators might be bidding up the price of oil but the spot market isn't paying it. That's why there is no more ground based oil storage available. They are now leaving oil on the tankers. Many of those tankers are parked in the Gulf of Mexico at this very moment.

The speculators are building another oil bubble and once again, it will pop...

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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 08:16 AM
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The futures market just needs to be redone, imo. People that trade in that market should only be the ones that are actually selling or going to take delivery of the product.

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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 08:16 AM
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I have no urge to have the government setting prices for oil, that is ridiculous and only a crazy person would wish for it. A few years back the government limited the price for gasoline in Hawaii. Guess what happened? Shortages. I'd much rather be able to buy gas for $10 a gallon if I need it than not have any available.

The run up we saw last year is the price you sometimes pay for having a free society without government controls on everything. Besides, a lot of the "speculators" are the oil producing countries themselves. What are you going to do to them?

We are overdue for another huge drop in prices anyway:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29495753/

Oil producers running out of storage space
Glut caused by world slowdown leaves the world awash in crude
Many oil tankers are little more than floating storage facilities now.
updated 7:01 p.m. CT, Tues., March. 3, 2009
NEW YORK - Supertankers that once raced around the world to satisfy an unquenchable thirst for oil are now parked offshore, fully loaded, anchors down, their crews killing time. In the United States, vast storage farms for oil are almost out of room.

As demand for crude has plummeted, the world suddenly finds itself awash in oil that has nowhere to go.

It’s been less than a year since oil prices hit record highs. But now producers and traders are struggling with the new reality: The world wants less oil, not more. And turning off the spigot is about as easy as turning around one of those tankers.

So oil companies and investors are stashing crude, waiting for demand to rise and the bear market to end so they can turn a profit later.

Meanwhile, oil-producing countries such as Iran have pumped millions of barrels of their own crude into idle tankers, effectively taking crude off the market to halt declining prices that are devastating their economies.

Traders have always played a game of store and sell, bringing oil to market when it can fetch the best price. They say this time is different because of how fast the bottom fell out of the oil market.

“Nobody expected this,” said Antoine Halff, an analyst with Newedge. “The majority of people out there thought the market would keep rising to $200, even $250, a barrel. They were tripping over each other to pick a higher forecast.”

Now the strategy is storage. Anyone who can buy cheap oil and store it might be able to sell it at a premium later, when the global economy ramps up again.

The oil tanks that surround Cushing, Okla., in a sprawling network that holds 10 percent of the nation’s oil, have been swelling for months. Exactly how close they are to full is a closely guarded secret, but analysts who cover the industry say Cushing is approaching capacity.

There are other storage tanks in the country with plenty of extra room to take on oil, but Cushing is the delivery point for the oil traded on the New York Mercantile Exchange. So the closer Cushing gets to full, the lower the price of oil goes.



Some oil is ending up in giant ships and staying there. On these supertankers, rented by oil companies such as Royal Dutch Shell, there is little for crews to do but paint and repaint the decks to pass time.

More than 30 tankers, each with the ability to move 2 million barrels of oil from port to port, now serve as little more than floating storage tanks. They are moored across the globe, from the Texas coast to the calm waters off Europe and Nigeria.

“It gets expensive to do this,” said Phil Flynn, an analyst at Alaron Trading Corp. “If you’re sitting on a bunch of oil and you’re stuck paying storage and insurance, and you can’t find a buyer, you may have to sell it at a discount just to get rid of it.”

On the other hand, as storage units on land have filled up, the companies that own the tankers have profited. Tanker companies charge an average of $75,000 a day, three times as much as last summer, to hold crude, said Douglas Mavrinac, an analyst with Jefferies & Co.

Demand for oil began to increase steadily in the early 1980s, and it went into overdrive in recent years as the Chinese economy surged and as producers pumped lakes of oil out of the ground to take advantage of a spike in prices. Then recession gripped the globe, frozen credit markets made things worse, and inventories swelled.

Refineries in the U.S. have cut way back on production of gas as the economy weakens and millions of Americans, many of them laid off, keep their cars in the garage.

The latest government records show U.S. inventories are bloated with a virtual sea of surplus crude, enough to fuel 15 million cars for a year. Inventories have grown by 26 million barrels since the beginning of the year alone. Oil from Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Nigeria is finding few takers, even though much of it is used to make gasoline in the United States.

There are so many players in the international oil market that no one has enough control to sway prices. OPEC slashed production by more than 4 million barrels a day, and still the price of a barrel of crude languishes near $40. At its peak, it traded at $147 a barrel.

Experts aren’t sure what will happen when all that oil finally comes ashore.

One fear is that with oil prices so low, companies will slash drilling and production, setting the world up for an energy crunch that would send prices soaring. The number of oil and gas rigs operating in the United States has fallen a staggering 39 percent since August.

Others say prices would plummet if companies forced millions of barrels onto the market at once.

“If everyone’s running for the exits at the same time, they’ll engineer a price collapse,” Flynn said.
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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 08:18 AM
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On a side note, the price of diesel is expected to drop this summer, there are two refinery projects that are increasing capacity to refine fuel oils and they are expected to come online.
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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 08:24 AM
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On a side note, the price of diesel is expected to drop this summer, there are two refinery projects that are increasing capacity to refine fuel oils and they are expected to come online.
Are those projects going to produce low sulfur diesel? Otherwise they are just going to sell it overseas like they've been doing..

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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 08:46 AM
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Are those projects going to produce low sulfur diesel? Otherwise they are just going to sell it overseas like they've been doing..
From what I have read they are expanding capacity for both at two refineries in Louisiana. They decided to do it back when diesel was $5 a gallon and now they've got to see it through. The analysts are expecting diesel prices to go back down under the price of regular gas again like it used to be. We will see if they are correct.
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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 09:06 AM
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I want blame him for this one,
Yeah, we know.

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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 09:06 AM
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From what I have read they are expanding capacity for both at two refineries in Louisiana. They decided to do it back when diesel was $5 a gallon and now they've got to see it through. The analysts are expecting diesel prices to go back down under the price of regular gas again like it used to be. We will see if they are correct.
Man would i love to see that ... I cant wait for toyota to bring there diesel engine over here.
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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 09:53 AM Thread Starter
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Yeah, we know.

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Sorry, type-o. I hadn't had my caffeine then. I honestly meant "won't."

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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
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Al, thanks for reposting the link I had in the first post of the thread. As I said before, oil doesn't follow traditional supply/demand in the States. Look in the Middle East. They have so much supply that they let it pour out on the ground. There is such a surplus right now in oil, that prices should be under a buck a gallon. However, the price fixing crooks that they are will simply find a way to hold out until they can raise prices again.

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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 10:39 AM
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Sorry, type-o. I hadn't had my caffeine then. I honestly meant "won't."
More like a Freudian slip.

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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 11:42 AM
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Al, thanks for reposting the link I had in the first post of the thread. As I said before, oil doesn't follow traditional supply/demand in the States. Look in the Middle East. They have so much supply that they let it pour out on the ground. There is such a surplus right now in oil, that prices should be under a buck a gallon. However, the price fixing crooks that they are will simply find a way to hold out until they can raise prices again.
Yes, how dare those "price fixing crooks" be able to do what they want with something they own. Maybe you should write to Obama and he can change that for all of us. We need the federal government to step in and manage this too, for the masses, comrade.

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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, how dare those "price fixing crooks" be able to do what they want with something they own. Maybe you should write to Obama and he can change that for all of us. We need the federal government to step in and manage this too, for the masses, comrade.
Maybe you need a capitalism lesson. Price fixing does not equal free market! What the speculators and the evil Arab empire does is collusion with a commodity. Someone has to regulate it. They are basically an oligopoly colluding to charge whatever the hell they want for oil. The only thing we can do to resist is use LESS -- a far cry from NONE -- or a true alternative fuel that doesn't exist. Now, opening more refineries and drilling more holes will lessen our dependence on foreign oil, but we all know that isn't going to happen anytime soon unfortunately. In the meantime, they are running out of places to put it as the surplus grows. In a true market system, the surplus would make oil prices (and thus gasoline and other fuel items dependent on oil) tumble and tumble quickly as the surplus builds.

I'm sure you'll disagree with that too, but I'm guessing that if the local water supplier in your area wanted to charge $500 per gallon that you used at home that you'd cry like a bitch. You have to have water at your house, no matter what you do. Yes, you can seriously cut your usage, but you have to have it if you live there. According to you, they should go ahead and charge the $500 per gallon since they own the water and you depend on it. Are you sure you're not an Arab oil tycoon???

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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 01:13 PM Thread Starter
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More like a Freudian slip.

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Seriously, I blame Bush for a lot of crap, but not this. Like I said, he didn't speak out to stop it (I believe because he is an oil guy), but it would've been a wasted effort on his part. What we need(ed) to do was reduce our dependence on foreign oil. His team did try and do that by opening our reserves and trying to push back old legislation resisting new refineries, drilling, etc. That was the right play long term. Unfortunately everyone didn't play along.

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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 01:32 PM
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Maybe you need a capitalism lesson. Price fixing does not equal free market! What the speculators and the evil Arab empire does is collusion with a commodity. Someone has to regulate it. They are basically an oligopoly colluding to charge whatever the hell they want for oil. The only thing we can do to resist is use LESS -- a far cry from NONE -- or a true alternative fuel that doesn't exist. Now, opening more refineries and drilling more holes will lessen our dependence on foreign oil, but we all know that isn't going to happen anytime soon unfortunately. In the meantime, they are running out of places to put it as the surplus grows. In a true market system, the surplus would make oil prices (and thus gasoline and other fuel items dependent on oil) tumble and tumble quickly as the surplus builds.

I'm sure you'll disagree with that too, but I'm guessing that if the local water supplier in your area wanted to charge $500 per gallon that you used at home that you'd cry like a bitch. You have to have water at your house, no matter what you do. Yes, you can seriously cut your usage, but you have to have it if you live there. According to you, they should go ahead and charge the $500 per gallon since they own the water and you depend on it. Are you sure you're not an Arab oil tycoon???
I'm still wondering how our government regulates foreign industry. Tell me again how that works?

As for your blathering about free markets, I don't understand, has the price of oil not "tumbled and tumbled quickly"? I guess I'm confused! This all seems so strange. Better get the government involved, the market isn't working, oil has only dropped 70% from its peak despite speculators' continued attempts to try to manipulate supply. Better get your hero Obama on the horn to fix this and fix it soon.

On a serious note, I'd say the billions of dollars that speculators have lost since the peak are a pretty good incentive to not run the price up again.
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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 01:50 PM Thread Starter
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I'm still wondering how our government regulates foreign industry. Tell me again how that works?

As for your blathering about free markets, I don't understand, has the price of oil not "tumbled and tumbled quickly"? I guess I'm confused! This all seems so strange. Better get the government involved, the market isn't working, oil has only dropped 70% from its peak despite speculators' continued attempts to try to manipulate supply. Better get your hero Obama on the horn to fix this and fix it soon.

On a serious note, I'd say the billions of dollars that speculators have lost since the peak are a pretty good incentive to not run the price up again.
Oil and gas prices still aren't as low as they should be considering the continued increase in the surplus. By true free market economics, it would continue to tumble until demand started spiking. Around here, gas is up 30 cents per gallon as a minimum from not all that long ago. I saw regular for just barely under $2 per gallon over the weekend. It's still price fixing anyway you look at it.

As for your "has it fallen 70%" question, sure it has -- it should've never been that high in the first place though. I've cited it in other threads that the superficial price of oil/gas was costing families hundreds per month in extra money. I guess you're okay with that over a commodity item??? If we're talking about high end cars, HDTV's, etc., then sure it's fine to have a high price -- but not with a commodity. Meanwhile, Exxon reports another record setting profit quarter while everyone else fails -- everyone that depends on oil/gas to function/work.

The speculators should have been nailed to the cross for this, and money lost now isn't enough of a deterrent. They know damn good and well that they can collude and have another price run up if they want. You say the money lost should be a deterrent, what about the money they made in the meanwhile? Is that not incentive to try again?

Oh, and you never answered my proposition about local water supply. I'm sure you'll come back with, "I'll drill a well." To that, the local munincipality simply passes regulations requiring two things: 1) that a residence must be connected to their system and pay XX assessment fees for it, & 2) the permit fee for drilling a well is $20K or so.

Bring on $500/gallon water. I'll go buy stock now and make a fortune and no one can do anything about it because it's a "free market."

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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 02:08 PM
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Oil and gas prices still aren't as low as they should be considering the continued increase in the surplus. By true free market economics, it would continue to tumble until demand started spiking. Around here, gas is up 30 cents per gallon as a minimum from not all that long ago. I saw regular for just barely under $2 per gallon over the weekend. It's still price fixing anyway you look at it.

As for your "has it fallen 70%" question, sure it has -- it should've never been that high in the first place though. I've cited it in other threads that the superficial price of oil/gas was costing families hundreds per month in extra money. I guess you're okay with that over a commodity item??? If we're talking about high end cars, HDTV's, etc., then sure it's fine to have a high price -- but not with a commodity. Meanwhile, Exxon reports another record setting profit quarter while everyone else fails -- everyone that depends on oil/gas to function/work.

The speculators should have been nailed to the cross for this, and money lost now isn't enough of a deterrent. They know damn good and well that they can collude and have another price run up if they want. You say the money lost should be a deterrent, what about the money they made in the meanwhile? Is that not incentive to try again?

Oh, and you never answered my proposition about local water supply. I'm sure you'll come back with, "I'll drill a well." To that, the local munincipality simply passes regulations requiring two things: 1) that a residence must be connected to their system and pay XX assessment fees for it, & 2) the permit fee for drilling a well is $20K or so.

Bring on $500/gallon water. I'll go buy stock now and make a fortune and no one can do anything about it because it's a "free market."
Who cares about your hypothetical $500 water. The whole scenario is absurd, stop wasting my time with nonsense.

For the sake of argument, lets forget my point that the free market has done a fairly good job of regulating itself. Let's pretend you have an excellent idea. Tell me how you regulate this when the biggest speculators out there were the oil producers themselves, sovereign wealth funds from the oil producing countries and the government of China? Contracts are sold on the open market. Their original intent was that companies could hedge against future price changes but by definition they can be traded in a free market. Anyone can buy them. What exactly are you proposing?

The wholesale gasoline market is driving the recent retail price fluctuations. January demand was up 2.5% as well.
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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 02:20 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AL P View Post
Who cares about your hypothetical $500 water. The whole scenario is absurd, stop wasting my time with nonsense.

For the sake of argument, lets forget my point that the free market has done a fairly good job of regulating itself. Let's pretend you have an excellent idea. Tell me how you regulate this when the biggest speculators out there were the oil producers themselves, sovereign wealth funds from the oil producing countries and the government of China? Contracts are sold on the open market. Their original intent was that companies could hedge against future price changes but by definition they can be traded in a free market. Anyone can buy them. What exactly are you proposing?

The wholesale gasoline market is driving the recent retail price fluctuations. January demand was up 2.5% as well.
$500 water is about as absurd as an oil shortage or $150+ barrel of oil. If someone controlled the water supply, they could do the same as the oil empire. As for what I propose, the same thing I've stated in other threads -- we drill here more and in new places and we build some new refineries. That lessens our dependence on foriegn supply and thus their ability to regulate the price. As long as the US has a dependence, they'll be able to control the price.

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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juiceweezl View Post
$500 water is about as absurd as an oil shortage or $150+ barrel of oil. If someone controlled the water supply, they could do the same as the oil empire. As for what I propose, the same thing I've stated in other threads -- we drill here more and in new places and we build some new refineries. That lessens our dependence on foriegn supply and thus their ability to regulate the price. As long as the US has a dependence, they'll be able to control the price.
Doesn't matter where the oil comes from, the producer is going to sell contracts on it. Unless the government is going to get into the oil business. Available contracts go to the highest bidder, whoever that may be and in a free market they will be able to buy and sell that contract just like they do now. So, once again, what's your idea to regulate the market?

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post #31 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 02:36 PM Thread Starter
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Doesn't matter where the oil comes from, the producer is going to sell contracts on it. Unless the government is going to get into the oil business. Available contracts go to the highest bidder, whoever that may be and in a free market they will be able to buy and sell that contract just like they do now. So, once again, what's your idea to regulate the market?
The government is in the oil business. We have reserves. They don't have to be involved except to allow drilling/refining. If we start drilling more here and increase our capacity to refine, then we win. Drilling oil here and piping it to a refinery is a hell of a lot cheaper than boating it halfway around the world. A company that was doing that would be able to sell for less and profit more than those bringing oil in from overseas, yes? In turn for being able to do that, they are restricted on the amount they can export thus preventing them from being a party to the OPEC price fixing. No longer will the price here be relegated to bid wars of other nations/suppliers. Baically, if there's a lower supply here that has to sell in the US, the price is kept fair and regulated yet people can still make a tidy profit too. Besides, wouldn't we all rather buy AMERICAN oil from an AMERICAN company emplying AMERICANS? No?

BTW, this is how a discussion on here should go, not the name calling, back and forth crap typical of everyone on here.

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post #32 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 03:08 PM
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Drilling oil here and piping it to a refinery is a hell of a lot cheaper than boating it halfway around the world. A company that was doing that would be able to sell for less and profit more than those bringing oil in from overseas, yes?
No. It isn't cheaper to drill here. And that's for a lot of reasons. There is a break point obviously, where it makes sense to use oil from here, I'm not sure what that is at the moment. It depends on a lot of things as to what that price is, where the oil comes from, how you extract it, etc. Generally speaking it is been cheaper to buy foreign oil for a long time that is why we depend on it.

And the government does keep strategic reserves, they aren't in the business of regulating contracts which is what I am getting at. The mythical lack of supply from last year was not because of a lack of oil but a lack of contracts. The demand for contracts was sky high because they had a perceived value to speculators. You'd have to regulate the buying and selling of contracts on the open market but it really can't be done.

Here is a great story about exactly what happened:

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post #33 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Juiceweezl View Post
Seriously, I blame Bush for a lot of crap, but not this. Like I said, he didn't speak out to stop it (I believe because he is an oil guy), but it would've been a wasted effort on his part. What we need(ed) to do was reduce our dependence on foreign oil. His team did try and do that by opening our reserves and trying to push back old legislation resisting new refineries, drilling, etc. That was the right play long term. Unfortunately everyone didn't play along.
You are the one that said you wanted to blame him but couldn't, then went back and edited your post, don't come back here later and try to defend yourself when your true colors bleed through.

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post #34 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 03:16 PM
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The only thing I'm worried about is we are not self-reliant on oil, which is an advantage to our eventual enemies in war.
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post #35 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 04:44 PM Thread Starter
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You are the one that said you wanted to blame him but couldn't, then went back and edited your post, don't come back here later and try to defend yourself when your true colors bleed through.

Stevo
Think what you want, dude, but seriously, I meant to type "won't" as I don't blame that on him. The speculators did what they did regardless of administration. You can see other areas where I have said Bush is blamed for some things beyond his control. This is one.

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post #36 of 36 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 04:46 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AL P View Post
No. It isn't cheaper to drill here. And that's for a lot of reasons. There is a break point obviously, where it makes sense to use oil from here, I'm not sure what that is at the moment. It depends on a lot of things as to what that price is, where the oil comes from, how you extract it, etc. Generally speaking it is been cheaper to buy foreign oil for a long time that is why we depend on it.

And the government does keep strategic reserves, they aren't in the business of regulating contracts which is what I am getting at. The mythical lack of supply from last year was not because of a lack of oil but a lack of contracts. The demand for contracts was sky high because they had a perceived value to speculators. You'd have to regulate the buying and selling of contracts on the open market but it really can't be done.

Here is a great story about exactly what happened:
Video isn't working for me. Is drilling here more expensive because of the equipment/process or because of government regulations? I don't see how the process can be more expensive here, even if it comes from deeper in the ground, than transporting it halfway around the world. For years, we have been too prohibitive and discouraged harvesting and refining our own oil. That needs to change.

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