Mayor of Lansing Mich tears into Fox news anchor - DFWstangs Forums
 
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-21-2009, 10:50 PM Thread Starter
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Mayor of Lansing Mich tears into Fox news anchor


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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-21-2009, 10:58 PM
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that guy is an idiot. 70/hr is fucking rediculous for an auto plant worker. im sorry, but unions have outlived thier usefulness.

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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-21-2009, 11:51 PM
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The state of Michigan is in the shitter and all he can do is blame others. That is priceless.
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-22-2009, 02:33 AM
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Hell, as a soldier, we're not guaranteed medical or dental or anything for life. When you're out, you have to get insurance like everyone else. So GM workers are better than the soldiers? And I love how he refused to answer the questions, instead he chose to go on talking points of his own...

Sounds like someone else I've heard about lately........what's his name?.....Oh, yeah. Obama
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-22-2009, 07:32 AM
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good luck to the folks in Michigan!!

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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-22-2009, 07:50 AM
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Dang, what a fkn asshole.
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-22-2009, 08:25 AM
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Dang, what a fkn asshole.
The guy is just trying to represent his people. I cant blame him for doing what the people of Michigan elected him to do. Even if it requires being an asshole

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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-22-2009, 08:27 AM
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The guys is completely unrealistic as far as GM goes, but he had some good points about just throwing money at Wall Street and not seeming to even care where it went. He sure didn't do a very good job of stating those points within the parameters of the interview though. lol
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-22-2009, 08:38 AM
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Anyone look at the comments for the youtube video lolz.

"The MobOpFaux says, "comparable wages in other,,, the big three, GM loses $2,000 per car to the workers, wouldn't you agree?"

Not as if the $2,000 would be chopped off the floor price, noooooh, the workers are eating into the wall street profits, the lazy wealthy that were able to buy the stock get $2,000 taken away by the doity UAW hard working people that MAKE any profit you parasite off of.

Health care for life? Look to those parasite politicians golden parachute you fauxOp moron. "

"Virg Bernero for president! "

"The foxnews guy couldnt say shit. The mayor covered everything and I love it!! He's speaking truth, and you know foxnews cant handle that. It slamming the rich bastards that watch the smut foxnews airs everyday. Wallstreet can suck nuts."
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-22-2009, 08:40 AM
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what I see in that video

The mayor has no concept of a company being in business to make a profit. From his view the only reason GM is operating is to support the unions and provide for the employees. There is only one way the car industry can survive, the unions and associated mis-management are killing them.
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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-22-2009, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Ylw 98~~SNAKE~~ View Post
The guy is just trying to represent his people. I cant blame him for doing what the people of Michigan elected him to do. Even if it requires being an asshole
I'd be pissed if that guy represented me. If the guy can't listen to and answer a few questions from one person, do you really think he will do it for the thousands he is there to serve?

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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-22-2009, 09:09 AM
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that guy is an idiot. 70/hr is fucking rediculous for an auto plant worker. im sorry, but unions have outlived thier usefulness.
Why do people keep repeating this bullshit. Big 3 labor does not make $70 an hour. A single worker doesn't get $70 an hour in pay and benefits. It has NEVER been that way.

The EDITORIAL that first made that assertion ignored some VERY key facts.

1. They took the grand total of GMs Labor costs and simply divided it by the number of workers.

2. Included in those labor costs are Heath Care and Pensions for everyone that is already retired. Those Legacy Labor costs is what is kicking GM in the nutz.

3. The average hourly wage for an established worker is $28 an hour while NEW employees are hired on as contractors and start at $14 and hour.

4. Toyota pays their workers about $27 and hour. (I've gotta find the link on that one but I'm pretty damn sure I'm right about it). Keeping their people well paid is one of the ways Toyota has prevented unionization of their factories.

5. The UAW used to average about $32 and hour but let it drop after the 2005 contract negotiations.


The REAL problem isn't how much each worker is getting paid. The real problem is labor legacy costs. GM, Ford, and Chrysler have hundreds of thousands of employees that have long since retired. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and every other transplant manufacturer has NONE of those legacy costs. They don't even offer pensions. They do 401k and other retirement packages.

Another thing. GM had PLENTY of cash back in the late 1990's to fully fund the pension plan. It was GM management that instead decided to change the accounting for pension plan funding and pocket the money themselves in the form of bonuses and stock dividends. IF GM management had not done that, they wouldn't have the pension problems they are having now. As for health care, well it got expensive..

I should note that GM's current management didn't create that problem. It was the former CEO.

Of course, UAW isn't blameless. They have made it as difficult as hell for GM to have flex manufacturing. They have spent decades beating the shit out of the company in strikes. They had a really costly strike back in 2005 (or maybe it was 2006). There are other issues too. However they HAVE made a ton of concessions. The UAW had already agreed cut GM's debt to them (for the new healthcare plan) IN HALF. The big deal this time is NOT about wages. It is about cutting that debt from HALF to 30 cents on the dollar.

GMs other huge issue is their non labor related debt. They are trying to negotiate with those bond holders to get them to take 30 cents on the dollar for a debt write down, just like they are trying with the UAW. Without that, GM is going into bankruptcy.


Keep one thing in mind. If GM does declare bankruptcy. That means they will completely strip those pensions and retiree health care benefits from their books. HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of retirees will do without. Do you think the Government is just going to let those people hang out there without any money? Fuck no. They are going to put every one of them under the Government umbrella. YOU and I will be paying for their retirement.

One other thing. Every time you listen to the news, you hear the Democrat or Republican side of this deal. Guess what. BOTH of them are fuckin' lying. Stop fuckin' listening to them. Anytime a politician opens his or her fuckin' mouth, they are lying. Republicans stretch the facts in one direction and Democrats in the other. None of them tell the fuckin' truth any more.

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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-22-2009, 09:57 AM
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from GM, total cost is bottom line

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Originally Posted by Sgt Beavis View Post
Why do people keep repeating this bullshit. Big 3 labor does not make $70 an hour. A single worker doesn't get $70 an hour in pay and benefits. It has NEVER been that way.
"GM, which negotiated the four-year deal that serves as a template for UAW deals with Chrysler and Ford, says its total hourly labour costs dropped 6% this year from pre-contract levels, from $73.26 in 2006 to around $69 per hour. The new cost includes wages of $29.78 per hour, plus benefits, pensions and the cost of providing health care to more than 432,000 GM retirees, GM spokesman Tony Sapienza said.
The total cost will drop to $62 per hour in 2010 when the linchpin of the contract - a UAW administered trust fund - starts paying retiree health care costs."

Let them have the health care plan Obama's promised and see how that goes.



http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2008/12/...-per-hour.html
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-22-2009, 10:16 AM
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Hell, as a soldier, we're not guaranteed medical or dental or anything for life.
I'm not 100% sure this is accurate since I have not tried to use that benefit. I believe if you qualify for a VA loan then you qualify for VA medical benefits, if needed. Which SHOULD mean a visit to your local VA hospital...etc.

HOWEVER, that is not the same as getting commercialized health care - even if I am right.

-VA is not spread out like normal hospitals/doctors - that you get with standard insurance
-VA is understaffed and under budgeted
-VA IMO should be saved for the older generations (who can afford insurance) and troops being sent back from deployments who are sick. (physical and/or mental)
-VA is known to not be the most caring medical establishment in the world. I'm sure budget and work load contribute on top of their staff really having nothing to lose/worry about. Lets not forget the administrative war you enter when dealing the VA and the lack of knowledge of the folks running the damn places.

My point is, there is a difference. Above and beyond the fact that Veterans IMHO deserve that benefit.

---

That mayor did not represent that situation so well. I WANT to agree with not screwing an American working, but I also KNOW with a fair amount of certainty that the automakers probably fulfill his campaign budget and personal life a good bit. So, his opinion is shit to me considering he's not really interested in the worker as much as keeping the money coming in for himself.

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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-22-2009, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by jyro View Post
"GM, which negotiated the four-year deal that serves as a template for UAW deals with Chrysler and Ford, says its total hourly labour costs dropped 6% this year from pre-contract levels, from $73.26 in 2006 to around $69 per hour. The new cost includes wages of $29.78 per hour, plus benefits, pensions and the cost of providing health care to more than 432,000 GM retirees, GM spokesman Tony Sapienza said.
The total cost will drop to $62 per hour in 2010 when the linchpin of the contract - a UAW administered trust fund - starts paying retiree health care costs."

Let them have the health care plan Obama's promised and see how that goes.



http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2008/12/...-per-hour.html
That graph is based on the 2005 contract and takes GM's contribution to the heath care fund into account. HOWEVER, since that contract the UAW has CUT GM's contribution IN HALF. Their savings is much larger than reflected there. As stated earlier, GM and the feds are trying to get the UAW to cut that contribution even more. Also, that article makes no mention that GM would be able to buy out the contracts of a huge number of UAW workers and replace them with contractors that get a starting salary of $14 an hour. However I didn't know about the $29.78 figure. I thought it was closer to $28. I've read that in several articles. I speculate that the $28 figure could be an average with the $29.78 figure being a max.

Also, the graph includes ALL labor costs including those legacy costs. Note that Toyota doesn't have ANY legacy costs. They don't have pensioners. Remember, GM put themselves into this problem by not funding the pension plan to begin with.

Finally, your note about Obama's health care plan. Do you REALLY want to pay for GM pensioners health care with YOUR tax dollars. I sure as fuck don't.

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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-22-2009, 02:10 PM
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what does what you or I want have to do with anything

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Originally Posted by Sgt Beavis View Post
Do you REALLY want to pay for GM pensioners health care with YOUR tax dollars. I sure as fuck don't.
Obama and the democrats are in charge now. The plan of the "GREAT LEADER" will include all so GM and the mighty UAW won't have to worry about it. Infact , if it's modeled after the Canadian plan, individual coverage out of the "GREAT LEADERS" plan will be against the law.

BTW Canada's Health system is ranked 30th in the world

Last edited by jyro; 02-22-2009 at 02:25 PM.
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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-22-2009, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Sgt Beavis View Post
Why do people keep repeating this bullshit. Big 3 labor does not make $70 an hour. A single worker doesn't get $70 an hour in pay and benefits. It has NEVER been that way.

The EDITORIAL that first made that assertion ignored some VERY key facts.

1. They took the grand total of GMs Labor costs and simply divided it by the number of workers.

2. Included in those labor costs are Heath Care and Pensions for everyone that is already retired. Those Legacy Labor costs is what is kicking GM in the nutz.

3. The average hourly wage for an established worker is $28 an hour while NEW employees are hired on as contractors and start at $14 and hour.

4. Toyota pays their workers about $27 and hour. (I've gotta find the link on that one but I'm pretty damn sure I'm right about it). Keeping their people well paid is one of the ways Toyota has prevented unionization of their factories.

5. The UAW used to average about $32 and hour but let it drop after the 2005 contract negotiations.


The REAL problem isn't how much each worker is getting paid. The real problem is labor legacy costs. GM, Ford, and Chrysler have hundreds of thousands of employees that have long since retired. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and every other transplant manufacturer has NONE of those legacy costs. They don't even offer pensions. They do 401k and other retirement packages.

Another thing. GM had PLENTY of cash back in the late 1990's to fully fund the pension plan. It was GM management that instead decided to change the accounting for pension plan funding and pocket the money themselves in the form of bonuses and stock dividends. IF GM management had not done that, they wouldn't have the pension problems they are having now. As for health care, well it got expensive..

I should note that GM's current management didn't create that problem. It was the former CEO.

Of course, UAW isn't blameless. They have made it as difficult as hell for GM to have flex manufacturing. They have spent decades beating the shit out of the company in strikes. They had a really costly strike back in 2005 (or maybe it was 2006). There are other issues too. However they HAVE made a ton of concessions. The UAW had already agreed cut GM's debt to them (for the new healthcare plan) IN HALF. The big deal this time is NOT about wages. It is about cutting that debt from HALF to 30 cents on the dollar.

GMs other huge issue is their non labor related debt. They are trying to negotiate with those bond holders to get them to take 30 cents on the dollar for a debt write down, just like they are trying with the UAW. Without that, GM is going into bankruptcy.


Keep one thing in mind. If GM does declare bankruptcy. That means they will completely strip those pensions and retiree health care benefits from their books. HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of retirees will do without. Do you think the Government is just going to let those people hang out there without any money? Fuck no. They are going to put every one of them under the Government umbrella. YOU and I will be paying for their retirement.

One other thing. Every time you listen to the news, you hear the Democrat or Republican side of this deal. Guess what. BOTH of them are fuckin' lying. Stop fuckin' listening to them. Anytime a politician opens his or her fuckin' mouth, they are lying. Republicans stretch the facts in one direction and Democrats in the other. None of them tell the fuckin' truth any more.
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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-22-2009, 02:23 PM
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man what a dipshit.
So not only do our automakers go out of their way to not compete, they pay their line workers 70 bucks an hour then give em benefits after they split!?
well hell I think I see the problem, man.

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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-22-2009, 03:39 PM
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I'm not 100% sure this is accurate since I have not tried to use that benefit. I believe if you qualify for a VA loan then you qualify for VA medical benefits, if needed. Which SHOULD mean a visit to your local VA hospital...etc.

HOWEVER, that is not the same as getting commercialized health care - even if I am right.

-VA is not spread out like normal hospitals/doctors - that you get with standard insurance
-VA is understaffed and under budgeted
-VA IMO should be saved for the older generations (who can afford insurance) and troops being sent back from deployments who are sick. (physical and/or mental)
-VA is known to not be the most caring medical establishment in the world. I'm sure budget and work load contribute on top of their staff really having nothing to lose/worry about. Lets not forget the administrative war you enter when dealing the VA and the lack of knowledge of the folks running the damn places.

My point is, there is a difference. Above and beyond the fact that Veterans IMHO deserve that benefit.

---

That mayor did not represent that situation so well. I WANT to agree with not screwing an American working, but I also KNOW with a fair amount of certainty that the automakers probably fulfill his campaign budget and personal life a good bit. So, his opinion is shit to me considering he's not really interested in the worker as much as keeping the money coming in for himself.

If you're 100% service connected like me, things go pretty smoothly, but i saw a guy who was 60% have 9 kinds of hell trying to get an appointment and had to do a copay. I carry Tricare and Medicare (which if I drop Medicare like I tried to do, I lose Tricare despite teh fact I pay for it) in case I can't make it 4 hours to the VA hospital.

Which brings me to something else. I carried Tricare and was paying for it and when I got social security disability, they demanded I carry Medicare as well for an additional 100 a month. I figured I was doing well enough with Tricare so I canceled Medicare and got a letter from Tricare dropping me. Evidently I have to carry both of them or lose them both. That's BS
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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-22-2009, 03:52 PM
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man what a dipshit.
So not only do our automakers go out of their way to not compete, they pay their line workers 70 bucks an hour then give em benefits after they split!?
well hell I think I see the problem, man.


No one is getting paid $70 an hour. Read the fucking thread for gods sake.
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post #21 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-22-2009, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ModdinArt View Post
man what a dipshit.
So not only do our automakers go out of their way to not compete, they pay their line workers 70 bucks an hour then give em benefits after they split!?
well hell I think I see the problem, man.
Most people by now have seen the problem and all the auto makers may have to file chapter 11 to get the Unions off their back. Look how all the auto factory's up North have closed and how bad those citys & states are hurting now, Yes most people see the problem!!!!!!!
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post #22 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-22-2009, 04:41 PM
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What did they do for Delta? Not much
Govt didn't help me out one bit.

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post #23 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-22-2009, 05:40 PM
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What did they do for Delta? Not much
And who was President when that happened?

And who is President now?

Uh yea, I think they'll do something this time...

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post #24 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-25-2009, 04:57 PM
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If GM , Chrysler and Ford cannot compete and survive in this day and age then like others that have come before them, go under. Paying some unskilled clown to work from 19 yrs of age until he is 49 yrs of age and then allow him to suck of your tit for the next 30yrs is a joke.

GM, Chrysler and Ford need to fix the problem or chance going extinct, plain and simple.
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