First Oregon, now Mass...fee per mile. - DFWstangs Forums
 
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 07:04 AM Thread Starter
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First Oregon, now Mass...fee per mile.

Great. A mileage usage fee is gaining momentum.

Quote:
Massachusetts may consider a mileage charge
The Associated Press
Published: February 17, 2009

BOSTON: A tentative plan to overhaul Massachusetts' transportation system by using GPS chips to charge motorists a quarter-cent for every mile behind the wheel has angered some drivers.

"It's outrageous, it's kind of Orwellian, Big Brotherish," said Sen. Scott Brown, R-Wrentham, who drafted legislation last week to prohibit the practice. "You'd need a whole new department of cronies just to keep track of it."

But a "Vehicle Miles Traveled" program like the one the governor may unveil this week has already been tested — with positive results — in Oregon.

Governors in Idaho and Rhode Island, as well as the federal government, also are talking about such programs. And in North Carolina, a panel suggested in December the state start charging motorists a quarter-cent for every mile as a substitute for the gas tax.

"The Big Brother issue was identified during the first meeting of the task force that developed our program," said Jim Whitty, who oversees innovation projects for the Oregon Department of Transportation. "Everything we did from that point forward, even though we used electronics, was to eliminate those concerns."
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A draft overhaul transport plan prepared for Gov. Deval Patrick says implementing a Vehicle Miles Traveled system to replace the gas tax makes sense. "A user-based system, collected electronically, is a fair way to pay for our transportation needs in the future," it says.

Patrick, who had yet to settle on any of the ideas contained in the draft, told reporters last week, "I like any idea that is faster, cheaper, simpler."

The idea behind the program is simple: As cars become more fuel efficient or powered by electricity, gas tax revenues decline. Yet the cost of building and maintaining roads and bridges is increasing. A state could cover that gap by charging drivers precisely for the mileage their vehicles put on public roads.

"There needs to be a new way of thinking about, 'How do we pay for all of this?'" said Richard Dimino, president of A Better City, a business-friendly group that considers transportation issues.

"One of the ways is thinking about the automobile like a utility: When we turn on our automobile and use it, we would be charged like we do when we turn on the lights and we start using electricity."

In Oregon, the state paid volunteers who let the transportation department install GPS receivers in 300 vehicles. The device did not transmit a signal — which would allow real-time tracking of a driver's movements — but instead passively received satellite pings telling the receiver where it was in terms of latitude and longitude coordinates.

The state used those coordinates to determine when the vehicle was driving both within Oregon and outside the state. And it measured the respective distances through a connection with the vehicle's odometer.

When a driver pulled into a predetermined service station, the pump linked electronically with the receiver, downloaded the number of miles driven in Oregon and then charged the driver a fee based on the distance. The gas tax they would have paid was reduced by the amount of the user fee. Drivers continued to be charged gas tax for miles driven outside Oregon.

Under such systems, one of which is already used in London, drivers are charged more for entering a crowded area during rush hour than off-peak periods.

"What the mileage charge does, if it's structured properly, is simply charge for the basic responsibility of people to pay for the amount of wear they put on the state's roads," said Whitty, whose state is still considering the mechanics of broadening the program.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2009/...leage-Chip.php

I love it. Typical example of how government works. We save gas. We conserve. And they still want to bleed us dry.

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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 07:06 AM
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haha now you have to pay a driving tax haha what a joke! anything they can do to make money off the public

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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 07:11 AM
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wow....that would make me wanna sell the car and get a horse
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Chrm10SPkZ28 View Post
wow....that would make me wanna sell the car and get a horse
horse and buggy would be better that way you can take your wife and kids with ya...

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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 07:37 AM
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This should provide for a long term profitable future for all vehicle manufacturers. City populations will explode, farmers, ranchers and small communities will die, trucking will be crippled, etc.
And for no other reason than I don't want government provided GPS unit's on my vehicles.

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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 07:43 AM
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They had better NOT try that shit in Texas. I'm all for raising the gas tax to put more money in our roads but putting a GPS device in my car is NOT going to happen.

BTW, doesn't anyone thing there is probably a good way to circumvent this? You know someone is going to figure out how to hack the GPS unit..

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 07:55 AM
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Im not terribly worried. 16000 miles a year is only $40. They should base it of your yearly inspection. It documents your mileage.

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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 09:23 AM
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Im not terribly worried. 16000 miles a year is only $40. They should base it of your yearly inspection. It documents your mileage.
I don't think many people are worried about the tax itself. I think they are pissed about putting a GPS unit in the car. You know the government will abuse that at some point.

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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 09:29 AM
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The most entertaining part is that no matter how stupid the idea sounds there is always some dumbass who is employed by a special interest group or is getting paid by a special interest group who says it is a good idea. It is one of the problems with our government, the people don't have a say but the special interest groups and corporations have plenty of say.
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 09:30 AM
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I don't think many people are worried about the tax itself. I think they are pissed about putting a GPS unit in the car. You know the government will abuse that at some point.
Exactly. I don't give a shit about the tax; it's bullshit, but it's not the bane of my issue with this legislation. My issue is with the fact that the government will have a fucking GPS device on my vehicle. Are you kidding me?!

That shit won't (or at least shouldn't) fly.

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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 09:36 AM
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Great, i'll have 4 gps units in my car. . . yea.

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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 10:18 AM
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I posted a thread in January about Oregon doing this, fuck them if they think I am going to pay more fucking taxes or strap a governmental tracking device on any of my vehicles.

https://www.dfwstangs.net/forums/showthread.php?t=379822

Quote:
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horse and buggy would be better that way you can take your wife and kids with ya...
EPA is already figured out a way to flat tax the horse.


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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 11:31 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean88gt View Post
City populations will explode, farmers, ranchers and small communities will die, trucking will be crippled, etc.
That's a good point...it assumes you're driving on public roads. What about private roads if the point it to recoup the costs for maintenance. Course the current gas tax is blind, too.

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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 11:49 AM
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Another thing that bothers me about this is that it really does show cowardice and a lack of leadership on the part of the politicians that support this. If you want to raise more revenue for bridge, road, and infrastructure construction then just raise the existing taxes on gasoline and diesel.

Those taxes are the most fair taxes that we have in place. EVERYONE pays the same. If you have a more fuel efficient car that typically puts less wear on the roads, then you pay less. If you have a big ass V12 Mercedes that puts out more wear, then you pay more.

Here in Texas they have been pushing "Toll Roads or NO Roads" That is such a crock of shit. It has been repeatedly demonstrated that a 5 to 10 cent raise in the gasoline tax would easily cover all of Texas' road building needs. Politicians are simply cowards to even propose such a thing.

Just to be clear. I'm not suggesting more gasoline taxes so we can build more public transportation, or luxury lanes, or some other "eco friendly" alternative. I'm talking about raising taxes so we can invest in our roads and bridges. That kind of investment pays us back. It pays us back with more commerce. It pays back in less traffic congestion (which in turn lowers pollution). It also helps to fuel this population growth engine that we've been enjoying in Texas, which in turn increases the tax base. Its a fuckin' win win IMO...

Oh, and a 10 cent gas tax is a helluva lot cheaper than driving on a fuckin' toll road..

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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 03:59 PM
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Good luck putting one of those damned things in my cars. I'll drive my tractor everywhere
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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 05:21 PM
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So we need a whole new level of bureaucracy for this? Why not just have the clerk go look at my odometer? Is THIS Obama's great secret plan to put more Americans to work?

Give me a dollar.
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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 05:31 PM
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I'll put a lead shield around the antenna. Before I had to get it checked, I'd remove it.

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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 05:45 PM
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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt Beavis View Post
Another thing that bothers me about this is that it really does show cowardice and a lack of leadership on the part of the politicians that support this. If you want to raise more revenue for bridge, road, and infrastructure construction then just raise the existing taxes on gasoline and diesel.

Those taxes are the most fair taxes that we have in place. EVERYONE pays the same. If you have a more fuel efficient car that typically puts less wear on the roads, then you pay less. If you have a big ass V12 Mercedes that puts out more wear, then you pay more.

Here in Texas they have been pushing "Toll Roads or NO Roads" That is such a crock of shit. It has been repeatedly demonstrated that a 5 to 10 cent raise in the gasoline tax would easily cover all of Texas' road building needs. Politicians are simply cowards to even propose such a thing.

Just to be clear. I'm not suggesting more gasoline taxes so we can build more public transportation, or luxury lanes, or some other "eco friendly" alternative. I'm talking about raising taxes so we can invest in our roads and bridges. That kind of investment pays us back. It pays us back with more commerce. It pays back in less traffic congestion (which in turn lowers pollution). It also helps to fuel this population growth engine that we've been enjoying in Texas, which in turn increases the tax base. Its a fuckin' win win IMO...

Oh, and a 10 cent gas tax is a helluva lot cheaper than driving on a fuckin' toll road..


Nice speech.

Hows about let's just cut out about half the bullshit they call government and save all of us a buttload of money...
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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
"What the mileage charge does, if it's structured properly, is simply charge for the basic responsibility of people to pay for the amount of wear they put on the state's roads," said Whitty, whose state is still considering the mechanics of broadening the program.
Ok, so lets charge people based on vehicle wieght. Cars pay little, SUVs pay more, pickup trucks can normally haul stuff so charge them more, semi trucks pay a lot more.
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post #21 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 08:53 PM
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Wait...so if I drive the pissant hybrids they want, they get pissed, if I drive my smog belching V8 they get pissed....
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post #22 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasDevilDog View Post
Ok, so lets charge people based on vehicle wieght. Cars pay little, SUVs pay more, pickup trucks can normally haul stuff so charge them more, semi trucks pay a lot more.
Oh man! I'm rocking the MG permanently if they structure it based on vehicle weight!

Give me a dollar.
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