UAW walks away from talks with GM.. - DFWstangs Forums
 
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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 10:24 AM Thread Starter
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UAW walks away from talks with GM..

IMO, Bankruptcy just became all but a certainty. They've got until Tuesday to get back to the bargaining table and get'er done.

GM also has to get huge concessions from bond holders or else..

I think this is the final straw. GM will declare bankruptcy and get rid of Saturn, Saab, and Hummer. They may also dump Pontiac and GMC. I think there is a good chance they'll get rid of one or two of their overseas brands like Holden.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...m_N.htm?csp=34

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Report: UAW walks away from GM talks


DETROIT (AP) — Negotiators for the United Auto Workers walked out of concession talks with General Motors Corp. Friday night in a dispute over payments to a union-administered retiree health care fund, a person briefed on the talks said Saturday.

The breakdown comes at a critical time as GM races against a Tuesday deadline to submit a plan to the government showing how it can become viable.

The Detroit-based auto giant is living on $9.4 billion in government loans, and the Treasury Department must approve its viability plan for GM to get $4 billion more. Chrysler LLC, which has received $4 billion in government loans and wants an additional $3 billion, faces the same deadline.

At GM, UAW negotiators walked away because the company made demands that were "detrimental to retirees and the ability to provide health care," according to the person, who asked not to be identified because the talks are private.

GM spokesman Tony Sapienza would say only that GM is working on its viability plan.

"We're committing to meeting the goal of providing a plan as required by terms of the restructuring plan," he said Saturday.

A spokesman for the UAW did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Under terms of the loans to GM and Chrysler laid down by the Bush Administration, both companies must gain concessions from unions and debtholders. Among targets for concessions is GM's cash contribution to a trust fund that will take over the obligation for retiree health care starting next year.

GM says it owes $20.4 billion to the fund, and the loan terms set a target of giving the union half of the value in cash and half in GM stock. The trust fund would take over health care payments for GM's roughly 500,000 blue-collar retirees and spouses starting Jan. 1, 2010.

The trust, called a voluntary employees beneficiary association, would let GM move about $46.7 billion in retiree health care costs off its books, making it more cost-competitive with Asian automakers. It is the key feature of a new four-year contract signed in 2007 with the UAW.

The union has said that if fully funded, the trust would provide health care to retirees for 80 years.

GM also must reduce its public unsecured debt by two-thirds and has been negotiating with bondholders to swap the debt for equity. The company said in a Jan. 15 presentation to analysts that it has $41.6 billion in debt.

GM, Chrysler and their unions must also agree to reduce the companies' labor costs so they are competitive with Japanese automakers that have plants in the U.S.

GM has said its total per-employee labor costs, including wages, pensions, benefits and retiree costs, are now $69 per hour. Toyota Motor Corp., GM's biggest competitor, says its hourly costs are $53. GM's costs will drop to $62 once the retiree health care trust takes effect, the company has said.

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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 10:29 AM
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GM should put ads out nationwide hiring for non-union workers. I bet right now they'd have a flood of people arrive in Michigan.

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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 10:31 AM
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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 10:54 AM
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I wish they would declare bankruptcy and kick the UAW to the curb...
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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 10:57 AM
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I wish they would declare bankruptcy and kick the UAW to the curb...
There's a shitload of folks in Michigan (and all over the country) that will gladly work for $12-$15 an hour...

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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 11:07 AM
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There's a shitload of folks in Michigan (and all over the country) that will gladly work for $12-$15 an hour...
Give it about 3 months and you'll probably see a lot of current GM workers who will work for that wage.
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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 11:29 AM
 
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IMO, Bankruptcy just became all but a certainty. They've got until Tuesday to get back to the bargaining table and get'er done.

GM also has to get huge concessions from bond holders or else..

I think this is the final straw. GM will declare bankruptcy and get rid of Saturn, Saab, and Hummer. They may also dump Pontiac and GMC. I think there is a good chance they'll get rid of one or two of their overseas brands like Holden.
Getting rid of Holden? I'd surely hope not... They have a better build quality compared to the other GM brands it seems (aside from 'Lacs of course).

Add to that they believe in RWD vehicles.

As long as Chevrolet sticks around, down with UAW!!
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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
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Getting rid of Holden? I'd surely hope not... They have a better build quality compared to the other GM brands it seems (aside from 'Lacs of course).

Add to that they believe in RWD vehicles.

As long as Chevrolet sticks around, down with UAW!!
That is just speculation on my part but RWD cars are taking a back seat right now because of California's new regulations that will directly effect fuel economy standards. GM has already delayed (and might cancel) production of the RWD Alpha platform that was supposed to replace the Zeta platform that underpins the G8 and all of Holden's RWD cars.

Overseas, GM owns Daewoo, Opel, Vauxhal, Saab, Buick of China, and Holden. IMO Holden is the odd man out. We already know that Saab is gone. Vauxhaul and Opel are practically the same company. Buick is still one of the larger sellers in China. Daewoo is the cornerstone of GM's small car plans. So IF GM is to get rid of another foreign brand, I think it will be Holden.

Again, just speculation on my part..

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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 11:49 AM
 
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I hear ya....

PS . FUCK CALIFORNIA!

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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 12:05 PM
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I still doubt GM will file Bk . I think they will work out a last minute deal or Obama will allow an extension . Bush is gone so its Obama's call now and he's pro union 110% .
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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 03:08 PM Thread Starter
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I still doubt GM will file Bk . I think they will work out a last minute deal or Obama will allow an extension . Bush is gone so its Obama's call now and he's pro union 110% .
Don't be so sure yet. There is already talk from Obama's aides that GM (and the auto industry at large) must restructure. That's just another word for bankruptcy.

But I'll be shocked if they (the Obama administration) don't at least try something to avoid it.

BTW, the UAW is back at the negotiating table this afternoon...

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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 03:16 PM
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Don't be so sure yet. There is already talk from Obama's aides that GM (and the auto industry at large) must restructure. That's just another word for bankruptcy.

But I'll be shocked if they (the Obama administration) don't at least try something to avoid it.

BTW, the UAW is back at the negotiating table this afternoon...
I heard they were only negotiating with ford now.
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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 03:19 PM
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If there is not already some behind the scenes deal made between Obama and GM then GM needs to get out the message that they will have to declare bankruptcy to get out of their contracts with union workers. This will possibly stop the bleeding from people who would stop buying their cars if they declare bankruptcy. People will know it is a move for a specific reason and not becuase they will actually go out of busdiness.

I do not think it is in anyone's financial interest for a major automaker to go under. The trickle down effect from that would be devastating IMO.

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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 03:28 PM
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I would still buy GM if they went Ch 11. Because i know they would have authority to remove dead weight from their books. And if by some stretch of the imagination that didn't happen, Chevys arent all that hard to work on.
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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 04:16 PM Thread Starter
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I would still buy GM if they went Ch 11. Because i know they would have authority to remove dead weight from their books. And if by some stretch of the imagination that didn't happen, Chevys arent all that hard to work on.
Yea, I would consider them a buy after Chapter 11 but one would be insane to buy them right now.

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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 04:20 PM
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As much as I really don't want to see this, it's going to be glorious to watch the immediate, crumbling, nasty, awesome downfall of the UAW. I'm getting giddy just thinking about it.

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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 04:23 PM
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So what happens to the stock both common and prefered bonds if they do in fact file Ch 11 BK ?
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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 04:37 PM
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Good question. I have GM stock.

And the UAW needs to die. It's been sucking the big 3 tit for so long it's forgotten where it's livelihood comes from
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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 04:54 PM Thread Starter
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Most likely, your stock becomes worthless.

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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 04:58 PM
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Eh, figures. Like my AIG stock
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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 05:15 PM
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Good question. I have GM stock.

And the UAW needs to die. It's been sucking the big 3 tit for so long it's forgotten where it's livelihood comes from
x2
There is no need for the UAW to operate the way they do these days.
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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 05:52 PM
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There should be no such thing as them walking away from GM because they won't give them everything they want. UAW either works with the company or it's gone. They've forgotten that
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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 06:20 PM
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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 06:29 PM
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IMO, Bankruptcy just became all but a certainty. They've got until Tuesday to get back to the bargaining table and get'er done.

GM also has to get huge concessions from bond holders or else..

I think this is the final straw. GM will declare bankruptcy and get rid of Saturn, Saab, and Hummer. They may also dump Pontiac and GMC. I think there is a good chance they'll get rid of one or two of their overseas brands like Holden.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...m_N.htm?csp=34
Best thing they could do is get rid of their union
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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 07:05 PM Thread Starter
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I heard they were only negotiating with ford now.
They are talking to Ford but according to Reuters, they resumed negotiations with GM.

It looks like Ford is simply expecting to get the same concessions from the UAW that GM and Chrysler get (whatever those may be)..

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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 07:56 PM
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You know, a lot of what the union can do has a lot to do with the health of their parent company.

GM is in deep shit right now, and the UAWs refusal to acknowledge that is going to result in a hell of a lot of union unemployment.

So be it. Dumbasses.
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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 08:15 PM
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bankruptcy, yeah seems all but inevitable at this point but why would the kill holden? Its their staple brand in Australia and all new RWD platforms for all brands are designed there now... Well, all excluding the vette and trucks. RWD is still viable here and in many markets around the world.
And Cali can go f themselves.

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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 08:56 PM
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Im glad our Gov gave them $5,000,000,000 to postpone the same damn outcome

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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 09:23 PM Thread Starter
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bankruptcy, yeah seems all but inevitable at this point but why would the kill holden? Its their staple brand in Australia and all new RWD platforms for all brands are designed there now... Well, all excluding the vette and trucks. RWD is still viable here and in many markets around the world.
And Cali can go f themselves.
Not kill it, sell it.. But again, that is just speculation on my part.

BTW, the Vette AND the CTS are American designed platforms.

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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 09:30 PM
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There is no way they will go into bankruptcy with "King Welfare" was POTUS.

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post #31 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-16-2009, 07:08 AM
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There is no way they will go into bankruptcy with "King Welfare" was POTUS.

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post #32 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-16-2009, 07:26 AM
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There is no way they will go into bankruptcy with "King Welfare" was POTUS.

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He's already created another "Panel of experts" to solve the problem... I dont know why someone didnt think of this before!!!
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post #33 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-16-2009, 07:31 AM Thread Starter
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According to GMinsidenews.com, Saturn is Dead.

For those that don't know, GMinsidenews.com is a forum site that reports on rumors and actual news. However they do have several insiders and have broken news in the past before others. IMO, they are probably right on this one.

The intreguing part for me is that they might "merge" Saab and Caddy on a global level. Caddy has had difficulty establishing itself outside the US. This would be helpful. Lord knows Saab isn't exactly breaking sales records.

There has been word from other blogs that an American investment group is interested in buying Hummer. We'll see how that pans out...

It is sad to see Saturn go. GM is 100% at fault for its demise. They have THE best product lineup in the company but GM did barely any marketing. A lot of people don't even know what the Saturn Aura is. It is sad to know that the next generation Aura was to be a rebadged Opel Insignia. That car just won Europe's Car of the Year. We may still get it here as the Buick Regal.


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Last week news broke that Saturn “could be dead within the week.” General Motors, who has received billions in federal loans for the U.S. government must report to the Administration tomorrow with a detailed business plan. Part of that business plan must include what GM plans to do with their buffet of brands. GM executives have made one thing quite clear in regards to their brand management plan: Chevrolet, Cadillac, GMC and Buick are going to be their “core brands” that get most of the attention. Executives claim that Pontiac will be reduced to a “niche brand” and the rest of the North American fleet will up for grabs. It’s already well known that Hummer is for sale and GM would desperately like to unload Saab, but what about Saturn?

GMI has been told by sources very close to the situation that management and the Board of Directors have approved closing the Saturn brand as part of the plan for viability. Several options were considered for the brand, as evident with the influx of statements from various GM executives as of late about Saturn. One option was to merge the brand into the Pontiac, GMC, Buick sales channel (as GMI broke several months ago). GM also looked into selling the Saturn brand to their Chinese joint-venture in order to get the brand out of the GM umbrella.

Ultimately it sounds as if Saturn is going the way of Oldsmobile. GMI was told that the brand will be phased out down to three products; Aura, Vue and Sky. The final plug will be pulled sometime in the 2012 era. We also do not expect any future product from the brand from now on.

One of Saturn’s next flagship vehicles was supposed to launch this year; the 2010 Saturn Aura. That car was going to be a rebadged Opel Insignia for the North American market. Back in July, however, GMI broke news that the next-generation Aura had been placed on hold and was ultimately canceled. That alone led grave signs of the brand’s future.

Back in 2005 GM announced a huge reinvestment into the Saturn division. Within 18 months the Saturn brand had an entirely different lineup; a larger one to boot. Initially sales rose steadily, but the brand never has met GM expectations for sales numbers. Due to Saturn’s relatively low dealership base (just over 400 dealers in the U.S.), the costs of closing the division will not likely hit numbers that the closing of Oldsmobile did.

Other Brands

GMI has also been updated on the status of the other “non-core” brands. The Hummer brand is expected to be sold. GM supposedly still has interested buyers; they are just in negotiations and awaiting the outcome of the federal loans.

In regards to Saab, we’re told that if the Swedish government does not offer a bailout plan for the Saab division GM will morph the brand with Cadillac globally and eventually remove it from the division lineup. The “morph” process would be similar to how GM merged Daewoo and Chevrolet globally, which has been quite successful. If the Swedish government offers a bailout, GM will use that money to separate Saab from the rest of GM in order to make it more attractive to sell off as an asset sale.

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post #34 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-16-2009, 05:38 PM
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X2

Reason I think it's taking forever to bury GM is b/c they contribute so much each year to political parties.
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post #35 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-16-2009, 05:53 PM
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I still don't think that GM will be allowed to fail. Obama and the Dems will pull something out of their ass to allow it to continue to limp along with taxpayer influxes every so often. UAW is bleeding it out and instead of severing the limb that is killing the patient, they're keeping it on life support and hoping for the best. Best, of course, being that the UAW keeps paying them.
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post #36 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-16-2009, 06:49 PM
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I still don't think that GM will be allowed to fail. Obama and the Dems will pull something out of their ass to allow it to continue to limp along with taxpayer influxes every so often. UAW is bleeding it out and instead of severing the limb that is killing the patient, they're keeping it on life support and hoping for the best. Best, of course, being that the UAW keeps paying them.
AND now instead of them bleeding just GM dry, they are bleeding the entire United States.

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