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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-14-2009, 08:40 AM Thread Starter
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The idiots guide to the Stimulus

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090214/...4n_5qkeWeyFz4D
An examination of how the economic stimulus plan will affect Americans.

___

Taxes:

The recovery package has tax breaks for families that send a child to college, purchase a new car, buy a first home or make the ones they own more energy efficient.

Millions of workers can expect to see about $13 extra in their weekly paychecks, starting around June, from a new $400 tax credit to be doled out through the rest of the year. Couples would get up to $800. In 2010, the credit would be about $7.70 a week, if it is spread over the entire year.
Whooptie friggen do! That should be enough to get people buying more shit they can't afford

The $1,000 child tax credit would be extended to more low-income families that don't make enough money to pay income taxes, and poor families with three or more children will get an expanded Earned Income Tax Credit.
More welfare, nice! Keep shitting out those kids!!

Middle-income and wealthy taxpayers will be spared from paying the Alternative Minimum Tax, which was designed 40 years ago to make sure wealthy taxpayers pay at least some tax, but was never indexed for inflation. Congress fixes it each year, usually in the fall.
Wow! I thought rich were the enemy? Guy the Congress and POTUS have to protect themselves!

First-time homebuyers who purchase their homes before Dec. 1 would be eligible for an $8,000 tax credit, and people who buy new cars before the end of the year can write off the sales taxes.
Credit, as in it needs to be paid back?

Homeowners who add energy-efficient windows, furnaces and air conditioners can get a tax credit to cover 30 percent of the costs, up to a total of $1,500. College students — or their parents — are eligible for tax credits of up to $2,500 to help pay tuition and related expenses in 2009 and 2010.

Those receiving unemployment benefits this year wouldn't pay any federal income taxes on the first $2,400 they receive.

___

Health insurance:

Many workers who lose their health insurance when they lose their jobs will find it cheaper to keep that coverage while they look for work.

Right now, most people working for medium and large employers can continue their coverage for 18 months under the COBRA program when they lose their job. It's expensive, often over $1,000 a month, because they pay the share of premiums once covered by their employer as well as their own share from the old group plan.

Under the stimulus package, the government will pick up 65 percent of the total cost of that premium for the first nine months.

Lawmakers initially proposed to help workers from small companies, too, who don't generally qualify for COBRA coverage. But that fell through. The idea was to have Washington pay to extend Medicaid to them.

COBRA applies to group plans at companies employing at least 20 people. The subsidies will be offered to those who lost their jobs from Sept. 1 to the end of this year.

Those who were put out of work after September but didn't elect to have COBRA coverage at the time will have 60 days to sign up.

The plan offers $87 billion to help states administer Medicaid. That could slow or reverse some of the steps states have taken to cut the program.
No mention of the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology that will centralize records? When does the 'Black Market for health care' start?
___

Infrastructure:

Highways repaved for the first time in decades. Century-old waterlines dug up and replaced with new pipes. Aging bridges, stressed under the weight of today's SUVs, reinforced with fresh steel and concrete.
Get that horseshit out of here! The boats of the 70's weight as much as the SUVs of today. What about the semis that roll at close to 100,000lbs? Fucking assholes!

But the $90 billion is a mere down payment on what's needed to repair and improve the country's physical backbone. And not all economists agree it's an effective way to add jobs in the long term, or stimulate the economy.
Wait, don't we pay taxes for this right now anyway? Where has that money been going?
___

Energy:

Homeowners looking to save energy, makers of solar panels and wind turbines and companies hoping to bring the electric grid into the computer age all stand to reap major benefits.

The package contains more than $42 billion in energy-related investments from tax credits to homeowners to loan guarantees for renewable energy projects and direct government grants for makers of wind turbines and next-generation batteries.

There's a 30 percent tax credit of up to $1,500 for the purchase of a highly efficient residential air conditioners, heat pumps or furnaces. The credit also can be used by homeowners to replace leaky windows or put more insulation into the attic. About $300 million would go for rebates to get people to buy efficient appliances.

The package includes $20 billion aimed at "green" jobs to make wind turbines, solar panels and improve energy efficiency in schools and federal buildings. It includes $6 billion in loan guarantees for renewable energy projects as well as tax breaks or direct grants covering 30 percent of wind and solar energy investments. Another $5 billion is marked to help low-income homeowners make energy improvements.

About $11 billion goes to modernize and expand the nation's electric power grid and $2 billion to spur research into batteries for future electric cars.
If green jobs are viable, they'll be provided. More credits!
___

Schools:

A main goal of education spending in the stimulus bill is to help keep teachers on the job.

Nearly 600,000 jobs in elementary and secondary schools could be eliminated by state budget cuts over the next three years, according to a study released this past week by the University of Washington. Fewer teachers means higher class sizes, something that districts are scrambling to prevent.
Means the private school my wife runs will get bigger - Should I get an Escalade in Black or that Pearl White?

The stimulus sets up a $54 billion fund to help prevent or restore state budget cuts, of which $39 billion must go toward kindergarten through 12th grade and higher education. In addition, about $8 billion of the fund could be used for other priorities, including modernization and renovation of schools and colleges, though how much is unclear, because Congress decided not to specify a dollar figure.
State welfare
The Education Department will distribute the money as quickly as it can over the next couple of years.

And it adds $25 billion extra to No Child Left Behind and special education programs, which help pay teacher salaries, among other things.

This money may go out much more slowly; states have five years to spend the dollars, and they have a history of spending them slowly. In fact, states don't spend all the money; they return nearly $100 million to the federal treasury every year.
5 years? I thought we were trying to stimulate this economy!?

The stimulus bill also includes more than $4 billion for the Head Start and Early Head Start early education programs and for child care programs.

___

National debt:

One thing about the president's $790 billion stimulus package is certain: It will jack up the federal debt.
NO SHIT!
Whether or not it succeeds in producing jobs and taming the recession, tomorrow's taxpayers will end up footing the bill.
Then why weren't the funders of this bill listened too? Our elected assholes slammed this one through before ANYONE knew what was in it. I didn't want it, so I'd rather not have to pay for 'my portion'

Forecasters expect the 2009 deficit — for the budget year that began last Oct 1 — to hit $1.6 trillion including new stimulus and bank-bailout spending. That's about three times last year's shortfall.
Change you can believe in!

The torrents of red ink are being fed by rising federal spending and falling tax revenues from hard-hit businesses and individuals.
Tax cuts across the board would have been effective, but let's create $500 BILLION in more gov't programs.

The national debt — the sum of all annual budget deficits — stands at $10.7 trillion. Or about $36,000 for every man, woman and child in the U.S.
How many rely on the government at this point? I'd say that takes the portion of those that work to about $144K

Interest payments alone on the national debt will near $500 billion this year. It's already the fourth-largest federal expenditure, after Medicare-Medicaid, Social Security and defense.


This will affect us all directly for years, as well as our children and possibly grandchildren, in higher taxes and probably reduced government services. It will also force continued government borrowing, increasingly from China, Japan, Britain, Saudi Arabia and other foreign creditors.
Eat my dick! Why should we be fucked by the government because of failed policy and the inability to shut their wallets?? How does one go 'off the grid?'
___

Environment:

The package includes $9.2 billion for environmental projects at the Interior Department and the Environmental Protection Agency. The money would be used to shutter abandoned mines on public lands, to help local governments protect drinking water supplies, and to erect energy-efficient visitor centers at wildlife refuges and national parks.

The Interior Department estimates that its portion of the work would generate about 100,000 jobs over the next two years.

Yet the plan will only make a dent in the backlog of cleanups facing the EPA and the long list of chores at the country's national parks, refuges and other public lands. It would be more like a down payment.

When it comes to national parks, the plan sets aside $735 million for road repairs and maintenance. But that's a fraction of the $9 billion worth of work waiting for funding.

At EPA, the payout is $7.2 billion. The bulk of the money will help local communities and states repair and improve drinking water systems and fund projects that protect bays, rivers and other waterways used as sources of drinking water.

The rest of EPA's cut — $800 million — will be used to clean up leaky gasoline storage tanks and the nation's hazardous waste sites.
Need to see more details, some of it looks like absolute BS (environmental studies, etc)
___

Police:

The stimulus bill includes plenty of green for those wearing blue.

The compromise bill doles out more than $3.7 billion for police programs, much of which is set aside for hiring new officers.

The law allocates $2 billion for the Byrne Justice Assistance Grant, a program that has funded drug task forces and things such as prisoner rehabilitation and after-school programs.

An additional $1 billion is set aside to hire local police under the Community Oriented Policing Services program. The program, known as COPS grants, paid the salaries of many local police officers and was a "modest contributor" to the decline in crime in the 1990s, according to a 2005 government oversight report.
I thought crime was declining since racism was over and the Anointed was in?
Both programs had all been eliminated during the Bush administration.

The bill also includes $225 million for general criminal justice grants for things such as youth mentoring programs, $225 million for Indian tribe law enforcement, $125 million for police in rural areas, $100 million for victims of crimes, $50 million to fight Internet crimes against children and $40 million in grants for law enforcement along the Mexican border.
Every bit of that $$$ should have gone to the border.
___

Higher Education:

The maximum Pell Grant, which helps the lowest-income students attend college, would increase from $4,731 currently to $5,350 starting July 1 and $5,550 in 2010-2011. That would cover three-quarters of the average cost of a four-year college. An extra 800,000 students, or about 7 million, would now get Pell funding.

The stimulus also increases the tuition tax credit to $2,500 and makes it 40 percent refundable, so families who don't earn enough to pay income tax could still get up to $1,000 in extra tuition help.

Computer expenses will now be an allowable expense for 529 college savings plans.

The final package cut $6 billion the House wanted to spend to kick-start building projects on college campuses. But parts of the $54 billion state stabilization fund — with $39 billion set aside for education — can be used for modernizing facilities.

There's also an estimated $15 billion for scientific research, much of which will go to universities. Funding for the National Institutes of Health includes $1.5 billion set aside for university research facilities.

Altogether, the package spends an estimated $32 billion on higher education.
Where are the rest of the numbers, this isn't adding up??
___

The Poor:

More than 37 million Americans live in poverty, and the vast majority of them are in line for extra help under the giant stimulus package. Millions more could be kept from slipping into poverty by the economic lifeline.
Those 37M live in 'American Poverty' and would be rich anywhere else, so just quit bitching

People who get food stamps — 30 million and growing — will get more. People drawing unemployment checks — nearly 5 million and growing — would get an extra $25, and keep those checks coming longer. People who get Supplemental Security Income — 7 million poor Americans who are elderly, blind or disabled — would get one-time extra payments of $250.
Now we're talking! 4 of those elderly get together and buy a flat screen and this economy is taking off!

Many low-income Americans also are likely to benefit from a trifecta of tax credits: expansions to the existing Child Tax Credit and Earned Income Tax Credit, and a new refundable tax credit for workers. Taken together, the three credits are expected to keep more than 2 million Americans from falling into poverty, including more than 800,000 children, according to the private Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.
What about the other 35M in poverty?! OHHHH the children!

The package also includes a $3 billion emergency fund to provide temporary assistance to needy families. In addition, cash-strapped states will get an infusion of $87 billion for Medicaid, the government health program for poor people, and that should help them avoid cutting off benefits to the needy.
I'm needy. I needy a Z06, where can I get in line?

Socialism by any other name....

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
Pericles "Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it. "

"[T]he people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government and to reform, alter, or totally change the same when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it." --Samuel Adams


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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-14-2009, 08:48 AM
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And so it begins...or ends, rather.

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-14-2009, 09:00 AM
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you know it does not look like they are doing anything new, it seems as if they are just adding funding to programs that have existed for many years. nothing has changed.

as far as job creating, looks like its only going to create green jobs, and keep police and teachers employed.

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-14-2009, 11:42 PM
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 06:51 AM
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You asked about the $8000 first time home buyer tax credit.

Unlike the current $7500 tax credit, this one does not have to be paid back...

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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 09:18 AM
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I can't find the exact # but if memory serves me right, the bill w/ interest is something like 3+ trillion.





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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 12:51 PM
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Only 50million to fight internet crime against children? Looks like I'm gonna have a steady stream of 12 year old pussy!
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tx Redneck View Post
I can't find the exact # but if memory serves me right, the bill w/ interest is something like 3+ trillion.
Way over estimate. If paid back on time, it'll be like 1.3 trillion....still an assfuck minus the lube though
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 03:07 PM
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I am very amazed at how the Messiah has staked his whole Presidency on this bill helping the country get back on it's feet. If it does, he wins. If it doesn't, we will see how the liberal media spins it to be Bush's fault, our fault, or whoever else they can try and blame for the failure.

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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by SlowLX View Post
Way over estimate. If paid back on time, it'll be like 1.3 trillion....still an assfuck minus the lube though
Not an obama fan, but the original tarp is well over $3 trillion, so this is just a little drop in the bucket LOL... I'll try to find the article, but with the low interest rates that t-bills and bonds are pulling, the government has potential to make a nice return on a lot of the tarp payouts... Theres no such thing as free lunch!

BTW: The credit doesn't have to be paid back, but it is subject to AGI limits...

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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 11:06 PM
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You asked about the $8000 first time home buyer tax credit.

Unlike the current $7500 tax credit, this one does not have to be paid back...
I got the tax credit this year for home repairs and stuff. It has to be paid back. They mean Credit line when they say credit.

Kinda curious about something. Does the Social Security and Disability services employe investegators to investigate weather tyronne is actually disabled? or if section 8 people are following the rules? I can honestly say if I was to guess 7 out of the 10 on disability are capable of working. 8 out of 10 on section 8 are capable of supporting themselves. I grew up in the hood knowing people all my life on this stuff and they didnt need it.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-16-2009, 05:37 AM
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All that shit will cost Tax Payers (Who pay Tax) roughly 15000 dollars each plus interest, plus devaluation of the dollar in national debt.

This was a BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD Plan.

What they should have done :

1. Cut payroll taxes by 10% for everyone.
2. For each job they add to EXPAND their workforce and keep the worker for at least a year, business's get a 20k tax cut. (This will encourage business to hire more people and get them off welfare/unemployment, etc..)
3. SUSPEND Capital Gains Taxes for 2 years.

Total Cost to Tax Payers = ZERO.

Payroll Tax Cut = More money to people
Business Tax Cut = They hire more people
Capital Gains Tax Suspension = People invest like crazy.

If more people are working, business's hire more people = more tax revenue for the government. BUT Under the above plan I've outlined, the government has NO CONTROL over you and they'll never do that shit.

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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-16-2009, 08:09 AM
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The whole thing is a fucking joke. It's a great way to increase the size of government though which is the goal of all politicians.

I guess I can buy some new windows for my house and get a 30% discount though.
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-16-2009, 08:16 AM
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which is the goal of all politicians.
EXACTLY! Every fuckin' politician (with the exception of Ron Paul but we know how that is going to go). It doesn' t matter if they are Democrat or Republican. Each and every fucking one of them is for bigger government and thus more power.

Frankly I think a revolution is coming. It may be another decade or two in the making but it is coming. I'm just curious about how long it will be before someone with a high powered rifle gets really pissed and starts killing these fuckers.

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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-16-2009, 08:27 AM
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I'm just curious about how long it will be before someone with a high powered rifle gets really pissed and starts killing these fuckers.
I wonder that everytime I'm at the gun show and I see someone throw down on 8500-10k on a .50
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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-16-2009, 09:12 AM
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The whole thing is a fucking joke. It's a great way to increase the size of government though which is the goal of all politicians.

I guess I can buy some new windows for my house and get a 30% discount though.



At least we agree on something for once.





You see Japan's Gdp ?


I hope we don't follow their same path.
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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-16-2009, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Dacotua View Post
All that shit will cost Tax Payers (Who pay Tax) roughly 15000 dollars each plus interest, plus devaluation of the dollar in national debt.

This was a BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD Plan.

What they should have done :

1. Cut payroll taxes by 10% for everyone.
2. For each job they add to EXPAND their workforce and keep the worker for at least a year, business's get a 20k tax cut. (This will encourage business to hire more people and get them off welfare/unemployment, etc..)
3. SUSPEND Capital Gains Taxes for 2 years.

Total Cost to Tax Payers = ZERO.

Payroll Tax Cut = More money to people
Business Tax Cut = They hire more people
Capital Gains Tax Suspension = People invest like crazy.

If more people are working, business's hire more people = more tax revenue for the government. BUT Under the above plan I've outlined, the government has NO CONTROL over you and they'll never do that shit.


1. Define 10% cut ? Are you saying drop the 35% to 25% or from 35% to 31.5 % ? What about those in the 10 and 15 % bracket ?


2. So the govt ends up paying 20k when they could have paid less just paying unemployment ? If the demand is not there for the labor, business owners are going to stay trim until demand for their product or service picks back up. I just don't believe in welfare/unemployment. I think they should require to do some type of community service hours while "actively" looking for work. But I got 3 kids, and can't pay for daycare ? Then you should be required to babysit 3 other kids during the day in order to get your welfare check so that someone else can actually be a productive citizen.


3. With the market ing down 40 + % in the last year not to many people are sitting on capital gains. Same can be said for those that invest in real estate.




Debt is what created this situation and trying to FIX it with more borrowing is not the answer.
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