North Dakota: Millions Of Guns, Two Murders - DFWstangs Forums
 
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 08:33 PM Thread Starter
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North Dakota: Millions Of Guns, Two Murders

Consider this a continuation of my "The British Want Their Guns Back" thread.


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North Dakota: Millions Of Guns, Two Murders.

The irony? Both victims were stabbed, not shot.

No shooting victims in North Dakota last year?

But how is this possible in a state where over 50% of the population owns at least one gun?

According to the Brady Gun Hating Club with so many firearms in the hands of the population and gun laws so relaxed, rivers of blood should flow in North Dakota; there should be innocent victims of drive-by shootings riddled with bullets and agonizing at practically every street corner. That's because (according to the Bradytes) North Dakota ranks #44 in their worst, most unsafe states to live in.

Well, it seems that Mr. Helmke's oppinion that every armed citizen may be a potential murderer is nothing but bull manure. But what else would you expect to come from the mouth of the brain dead Democrat who runs the Brady Bunch ?

For the record, Washington, D.C. has some of the strictest gun laws in the country and the fewest legal gun owners. Guess where they stand in number of homicides with a firearm.
They are #1.

http://transsylvaniaphoenix.blogspot...-guns-two.html
http://www.allamericanblogger.com/60...-north-dakota/


Why is it in the political forum? Because you can bet that the people now in power will be bringing issues like this to the forefront (minus facts like this, of course) just as soon as they finish handing out all that money.


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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 08:35 PM
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It's because they do all of their murdering in unarmed South Dakota.

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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 08:38 PM
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It's because they do all of their murdering in unarmed South Dakota.
Shit south dakota is a open carry state haha. All you have todo to get your chl is apply for it. No class no nothing just a small fee if i remember right.

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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 08:41 PM
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North Dakota has a population of 642,000, and if 50% of the population own a gun.....that's 321,000 guns, not "millions". Talk about a dead state, the 1930 population was 680,000!

So you have a whole state with less people than Dallas, and virtually all of them live in rural areas, and the state is 94% white. They would have a low crime rate if they had no guns.

Last edited by White trash wagon; 01-27-2009 at 08:50 PM.
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 08:52 PM
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North Dakota has a population of 642,000, and if 50% of the population own a gun.....that's 321,000 guns, not "millions". Talk about a dead state, the 1930 population was 680,000!

So you have a whole state with less people than Dallas, and virtually all of them live in rural areas, and the state is 94% white. They would have a low crime rate if they had no guns.

maybe they're like normal "gun" people and each person owns 5-10 guns?
country living, 94% white, sounds pretty nice

its still "we the people"right?

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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 09:20 PM Thread Starter
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So you have a whole state with less people than Dallas, and virtually all of them live in rural areas, and the state is 94% white. They would have a low crime rate if they had no guns.
The point was more that the people with influence in this country would have everyone believe that an inanimate object is responsible for crime and death as opposed to the operator of said object.

The Brady Campaign maintains that North Dakota has piss-poor gun laws. They give it 4/100 "points" and rank it 44/50 (tied with a few others). No doubt, they would love to step in a regulate the shit out of any and all firearms in that state.

But when said state has ZERO gun murders... well, it makes me wonder what makes people buy into the crap they continually spew forth.

They do not take population density or firearms per capita into account when they loathe responsible gun owners, so I don't really care to nit-pick every detail when I say that Sarah Brady can suck my ass.


But,
Quote:
Originally Posted by White trash wagon View Post
North Dakota has a population of 642,000, and if 50% of the population own a gun.....that's 321,000 guns, not "millions".
Number of guns
The actual number of guns reported in our survey varied depending on how the question was asked and who answered the question. Individual firearm owners (n = 702) reported owning an average of 6.6 (95% confidence interval (CI) 5.2 to 7.9, median 3) working firearms. On further examination, it seemed that individuals who owned >=4 firearms (with an average of 12 firearms per person) were greatly affecting the mean. When outliers representing the top 3% of gun owners (those owning >25 guns) were removed, the average number of working firearms per owner was 5.0 (95% CI 4.6 to 5.4)


(The US gun stock: results from the 2004 national firearms survey)

50.7% * 642,000 * 5 (Brady Campaign claims 6.9) = at least 1,627,470




And just for fun here are some correlations between the Brady Campaigns "rankings" and actual crime rates:

Quote:
It’s that time of year where The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Ownership issues its grades. I like to call it a Freedom Index, only its grading system is backwards. Nemerov spanks their grading system pretty hard:

Brady comes out each year with their report card, which analyzes a set of gun-law criteria and arrives at a grade from “A” through “F.” As noted in a previous paper, there is a strong correlation between lower grades and right-to-carry (RTC) status, with shall-issue states regularly assigned “D” and “F” grades.2 Brady graded South Carolina “D+” in 2005, because guns are too freely available, as per Helmke’s statement above.

Since 2001, RTC states, where more people carry guns in public, consistently average a “D”. Brady continues to be unhappy with the country’s direction regarding gun control: between 2001 and 2005, RTC states increased from 32 to 38 and Brady downgrade the U.S. average from “C-” to a “D+.” Their response is curious, since the national violent crime rate fell 7.0% during this time frame.

Even worse for Brady, violent crime trends are not spread equally across all states. RTC states (average Brady grade “D”) saw an aggregate 7.8% drop in violent crime, while non-RTC states (average Brady grade “B”) saw a 5.2% decrease. Even when Brady grades synchronize with violent crime trends, it fails to give an accurate picture: Brady dropped the national average grade from “C-” to “D+” in 2005, the same year that the violent crime rate increased 1.3%. This would seem to make sense, as a lower grade is supposed to reflect less safety for citizens. Unfortunately for Brady, most of that increase occurred in non-RTC states, which saw an aggregate increase of 2.8%, while RTC states increased 0.6%. Using Brady’s criteria of grading each state as an equivalent entity, non-RTC states averaged a 5.6% increase in violent crime, while RTC states averaged a 0.6% increase. Since 2001, the violent crime differential between RTC and non-RTC states increased from 26.0% to 27.5%, meaning that RTC states are becoming relatively more law-abiding compared to non-RTC states.3

There’s also the fact that two of Brady’s A students (Mass. and Illinois) recently experienced mass shootings. Since Brady cannot offer solutions, they offer condolences. You guys gave them an A.
http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/20.../brady_grades/


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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 09:51 PM
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maybe they're like normal "gun" people and each person owns 5-10 guns?
country living, 94% white, sounds pretty nice
If it wasn't so damned cold up there we'd be packing up right now...
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 10:36 PM
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I understand your point. I'm starting to agree with the philosophy behind it.

However, the reason N. Dakota has such a low crime rate is due to the population being primarily in rural areas. And also the demographics and racial makeup play a big role as well.

They don't have a metropolitan melting pot (Dallas, LA, Chicago) with a million+ people that consisting of many different races of people. Socioeconomics also play a large role in crime statistics.

Therefore, N. Dakota is really not a good example to debate from because it's not apples to apples.

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it was not a problem to bring money to his house at 10pm.so why is it a problem to call and bitch.it wasnt a problem when we were all sitting around smoking pot together.yes i said it we all were smoking pot together.what now stupid.
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 11:17 PM Thread Starter
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it's not apples to apples.
You're right. it's guns to guns

You can find the same guns in both places. You can find the same (anti)murder laws in both places. Yet the statistics themselves are different.

The only cause of that is the people (whether it be economic issues, culture, or whatever). Legislators can't control people's thoughts and they can't make murder "double illegal" so they have resorted to grasping at straws, or guns as it were, though the facts show that they should do the opposite.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustangman_2000 View Post
However, the reason N. Dakota has such a low crime rate is due to the population being primarily in rural areas. And also the demographics and racial makeup play a big role as well.

They don't have a metropolitan melting pot (Dallas, LA, Chicago) with a million+ people that consisting of many different races of people. Socioeconomics also play a large role in crime statistics.
My guns don't care about any of these things. They're in my safe... not killing people.


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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-28-2009, 03:07 AM
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and the state is 94% white.
lol, what are you trying to say?
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-28-2009, 07:41 AM
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lol, what are you trying to say?

The implication of his post and one or two others is that the majority of those murders/deaths are committed by other races. That's my presumption as well.

Where's a link that breaks it down?
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-28-2009, 07:57 AM
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The implication of his post and one or two others is that the majority of those murders/deaths are committed by other races. That's my presumption as well.

Where's a link that breaks it down?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Dakota
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-28-2009, 08:36 AM
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-28-2009, 08:43 AM
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North Dakota has a population of 642,000, and if 50% of the population own a gun.....that's 321,000 guns, not "millions". Talk about a dead state, the 1930 population was 680,000!

So you have a whole state with less people than Dallas, and virtually all of them live in rural areas, and the state is 94% white. They would have a low crime rate if they had no guns.

What gun owner owns just 1 gun? None that I know. That is where the millions of guns come from.

North Dakota is all white? Are you implying that whites don't commit as many crimes as people of color? Could it be that gun crimes have a social, racial, and economic basis that has nothing to do with the guns themselves?

Obama said that we must get guns out of the inner cities. What he really meant is that you can't trust niggers with guns. If you take away the gun crimes committed by people of color ( niggers, spicks, etc...)then you will see that there are not many gun crimes at all.

Most gun crimes are a symptom of social problems that have been caused by bad policy, the break up of the nuclear family, the illegal drug trade, and by being a dumb black kid with a gun who thinks that he is a bad ass.
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-28-2009, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White trash wagon View Post
North Dakota has a population of 642,000, and if 50% of the population own a gun.....that's 321,000 guns, not "millions". Talk about a dead state, the 1930 population was 680,000!

So you have a whole state with less people than Dallas, and virtually all of them live in rural areas, and the state is 94% white. They would have a low crime rate if they had no guns.
sounds like a wonderful place to live.
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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-28-2009, 05:41 PM
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The only bad thing is the amount of illegal aliens we have. With all the dairy farms and such.

I worked with one bitch and her husband is illegal. He's lived up here 7 years and just started working on getting papers. It makes me sick when its right infront of my eyes and nobody will do anything about it. His brother and a few other illegals live with them.

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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-29-2009, 05:38 AM
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Not a good representation of where I was going with my racist remark. I'll see if I can pull comparable for some of the other states. Louisiana, Virginia, Ca, etc...
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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-29-2009, 05:45 AM
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Look at the first couple lines of this link (won't let me r/c): http://www.criminalwatch.com/stats/LA.asp

and this one: http://www.criminalwatch.com/stats/va.asp


And laughably enough Ca, the hot bed of liberalism and gay lovin', goes the other way: http://www.criminalwatch.com/stats/va.asp


I'm betting that were you to tabulate over all the states in the union you will find a much higher percentage of minoritys doing the killing than whites...


edit: Mehh, never mind. Those are showing who was killed, not 'who done it.' Here in Texas whites are getting slaughtered wholesale according to those stats...

Last edited by Fox466; 01-29-2009 at 05:59 AM.
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-29-2009, 10:27 AM
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edit: Mehh, never mind. Those are showing who was killed, not 'who done it.' Here in Texas whites are getting slaughtered wholesale according to those stats...
This help?
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm

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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-29-2009, 08:18 PM
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Home run! In terms of which race is more deadly at least...
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post #21 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-29-2009, 09:36 PM
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Call it whatever you like, there isnt a city on the planet with 640k people that has no gun related murders in any year.
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