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post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-22-2009, 10:06 PM Thread Starter
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Gitmo closed

Just heard on the news that Obama orderd Gitmo closed within one year and release 60 - 120 prisoners. The ones that cant be released will be put in cilvilian supermax prisons.


What does this mean for us?

Shrimp'n ain't easy....

Last edited by JKD; 01-22-2009 at 10:17 PM.
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post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-22-2009, 10:36 PM
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Just heard on the news that Obama orderd Gitmo closed within one year and release 60 - 120 prisoners. The ones that cant be released will be put in cilvilian supermax prisons.


What does this mean for us?
Another way that the media twists things around. The detention camp at Gitmo is closing, the base itself is still going to be there. At least I have yet to see anything saying we are shutting it all down.

It really doesn't mean anything for us. The Supreme Court already decided that every asshole there is covered by the Geneva convention, which is horseshit. So that damage was done long ago. At best you could try to argue that the Taliban prisoners are covered but the Al Qaeda fucks? No way.

All I can say is remember this shit and who did what. If one of the animals from that place does something, there is going to be finger pointing and you will know who is to blame. The guys who are locked up there are killers of women and children, IE religious fanatics, they aren't going to just go home and forget about the war.
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post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-23-2009, 03:23 PM
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All I can say is remember this shit and who did what. If one of the animals from that place does something, there is going to be finger pointing and you will know who is to blame. The guys who are locked up there are killers of women and children, IE religious fanatics, they aren't going to just go home and forget about the war.
more of this perhaps?

http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/...e.1-414168.php
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post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-23-2009, 10:03 PM
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Just heard on the news that Obama orderd Gitmo closed within one year and release 60 - 120 prisoners. The ones that cant be released will be put in cilvilian supermax prisons.


What does this mean for us?
A group of terrorists that wanted death, released into the wild so to speak, since other countries don't want them.

It means, stay out of tall buildings.

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post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-23-2009, 10:06 PM
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Al qaeda's #2 guy is from Yemen, and was released from GITMO in '07. He went through a Saudi "rehab" camp, and straight back to al qaeda. I think we should give them a fair trial, then hang them by the neck until they are dead.

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post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-23-2009, 10:24 PM
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Those guys are fanatical beyond belief. My buddy works at a Firestone and was telling me about this push start that comes in to get his car worked on. The guy sits there while they're working on the car and writes 'his gods name' 701 times, over and over, 200 to a page, to 'keep his mind busy'. His god is allah.


Crazy fucks, they are...
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post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-23-2009, 10:30 PM
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Those guys are fanatical beyond belief. My buddy works at a Firestone and was telling me about this push start that comes in to get his car worked on. The guy sits there while they're working on the car and writes 'his gods name' 701 times, over and over, 200 to a page, to 'keep his mind busy'. His god is allah.


Crazy fucks, they are...

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post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-24-2009, 04:29 PM
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If we properly controlled our borders, we wouldn't even need Gitmo. But both Democrats AND Republicans like open borders.

So even with Gitmo, it's still ridiculously easy for fresh terrorists to get it the USA. Gitmo was just a holding pen for suspected terrorist we already knew about.
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post #9 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-24-2009, 10:05 PM
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If we properly controlled our borders, we wouldn't even need Gitmo. But both Democrats AND Republicans like open borders.

So even with Gitmo, it's still ridiculously easy for fresh terrorists to get it the USA. Gitmo was just a holding pen for suspected terrorist we already knew about.
..."we already knew about". Now why would you let them go? Fuck all that border horseshit. Why let them go? That's like saying we have criminals on the streets, so why worry about the ones in prison?

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post #10 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-24-2009, 10:49 PM
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Yay! I'm so glad they're closing it!

Two ex-Guantanamo inmates appear in Al-Qaeda video
10 hours ago

WASHINGTON (AFP) Two men released from the US "war on terror" prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba have appeared in a video posted on a jihadist website, the SITE monitoring service reported.

One of the two former inmates, a Saudi man identified as Abu Sufyan al-Azdi al-Shahri, or prisoner number 372, has been elevated to the senior ranks of Al-Qaeda in Yemen, a US counter-terrorism official told AFP.

Three other men appear in the video, including Abu al-Hareth Muhammad al-Oufi, identified as an Al-Qaeda field commander. SITE later said he was prisoner No. 333.

A Pentagon spokesman, Commander Jeffrey Gordon, on Saturday declined to confirm the SITE information.

"We remain concerned about ex-Guantanamo detainees who have re-affiliated with terrorist organizations after their departure," said Gordon.


http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...R90lC_pXaHeW4Q



Thankfully we can all get a hug and feel better about ourselves...
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post #11 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-24-2009, 10:52 PM
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Two ex-Guantanamo inmates appear in Al-Qaeda video
10 hours ago

WASHINGTON (AFP) Two men released from the US "war on terror" prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba have appeared in a video posted on a jihadist website, the SITE monitoring service reported.

One of the two former inmates, a Saudi man identified as Abu Sufyan al-Azdi al-Shahri, or prisoner number 372, has been elevated to the senior ranks of Al-Qaeda in Yemen, a US counter-terrorism official told AFP.

Three other men appear in the video, including Abu al-Hareth Muhammad al-Oufi, identified as an Al-Qaeda field commander. SITE later said he was prisoner No. 333.

A Pentagon spokesman, Commander Jeffrey Gordon, on Saturday declined to confirm the SITE information.

"We remain concerned about ex-Guantanamo detainees who have re-affiliated with terrorist organizations after their departure," said Gordon.


http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...R90lC_pXaHeW4Q



Thankfully we can all get a hug and feel better about ourselves...
Just gives you the warm fuzzies, doesn't it?

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post #12 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-25-2009, 07:49 AM
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..."we already knew about". Now why would you let them go? Fuck all that border horseshit. Why let them go? That's like saying we have criminals on the streets, so why worry about the ones in prison?
My point was, if we properly guarded our borders, terrorist wouldn't even get in. If any wetback can just walk across the border, get a job, get social security benefits & driver's license....how are you EVER going to stop terrorists?

If terrorists are stopped at the border & sent back....you don't need a prison to hold them.

It's always easier to prevent a problem, rather than fix it after the fact.
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post #13 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-25-2009, 08:36 AM
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My point was, if we properly guarded our borders, terrorist wouldn't even get in. If any wetback can just walk across the border, get a job, get social security benefits & driver's license....how are you EVER going to stop terrorists?

If terrorists are stopped at the border & sent back....you don't need a prison to hold them.

It's always easier to prevent a problem, rather than fix it after the fact.
Aren't those guys caught all around the world? Very few (if any) of these guys are caught here.

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post #14 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-25-2009, 08:37 AM
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My point was, if we properly guarded our borders, terrorist wouldn't even get in. If any wetback can just walk across the border, get a job, get social security benefits & driver's license....how are you EVER going to stop terrorists?

If terrorists are stopped at the border & sent back....you don't need a prison to hold them.

It's always easier to prevent a problem, rather than fix it after the fact.
I'm absolutely on the same wagon with you when it comes to border security.

However, let's not forget that even Israel, a country with short borders, has difficulty keeping out infiltrators. Last I looked, we have a helluva a lot more border than Israel does..

But lets say that we ARE totally successful in protecting our borders. That leaves HUNDREDS of US sites all around the world.

Basically my point is that we can't depend on border security...


Frankly, I think we should release ever damn one of them. Let them go totally free. Leave them all in the dead center of Texas. Just make sure you inform every Texan of the time and location. At that point, just let nature takes its course. Frankly, I could use the target practice...

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post #15 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-25-2009, 08:43 AM
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implant a tracking device on all of them that can be tracked by everyone on the internet and let them all go.......
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post #16 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-25-2009, 09:16 AM
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They're also closing the largest prison in Iraq... literally letting them back on the streets. Fuck me.
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post #17 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-25-2009, 09:21 AM
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cant kill'em until we let'em go

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post #18 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-25-2009, 09:22 AM
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cant kill'em until we let'em go
True, but we're getting hit again. Reminds me of '04.
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post #19 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-25-2009, 09:58 AM
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True, but we're getting hit again. Reminds me of '04.
Activity picking up? Still in it for the long haul?

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post #20 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-25-2009, 02:53 PM
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Al qaeda's #2 guy is from Yemen, and was released from GITMO in '07. He went through a Saudi "rehab" camp, and straight back to al qaeda. I think we should give them a fair trial, then hang them by the neck until they are dead.
Yeah that's the problem, we aren't trying people. I'm all for trying them and killing them, but holding anybody we want for years without charging or trying them is about as unamerican as you can get.
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post #21 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-25-2009, 03:56 PM
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Yeah that's the problem, we aren't trying people. I'm all for trying them and killing them, but holding anybody we want for years without charging or trying them is about as unamerican as you can get.
They are not American, nor are they uniformed soldiers from a "real" army. They should not be subject to the "Geneva Convention" rules, either. They are terrorists', plain and simple.

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post #22 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-25-2009, 04:08 PM
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They are not American, nor are they uniformed soldiers from a "real" army. They should not be subject to the "Geneva Convention" rules, either. They are terrorists', plain and simple.
I don't know what the answer is, I see your point. But for us to try to represent ourselves as a country founded on the ideal of universal rights and then detain and torture people indefinitely for no declared reason kind of undermines our legitimacy. I'm terrified more of being locked up without committing a crime than I am of a guy with a bomb I guess.
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post #23 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-25-2009, 09:53 PM
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Activity picking up? Still in it for the long haul?
A little over here, but I'm just north of the world's largest jail. It has gone from over 30,000 to just about 10,000 prisoners. They're talking about having everyone out by June. I CAN wait to see this.

I'm in it until I need to leave (and it won't be from anything involving their activity).
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post #24 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-25-2009, 09:58 PM
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I don't know what the answer is, I see your point. But for us to try to represent ourselves as a country founded on the ideal of universal rights and then detain and torture people indefinitely for no declared reason kind of undermines our legitimacy. I'm terrified more of being locked up without committing a crime than I am of a guy with a bomb I guess.
Then don't be a terrorist. That's easy. I can't believe this is even a fucking discussion.
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post #25 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-25-2009, 10:42 PM
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I don't know what the answer is, I see your point. But for us to try to represent ourselves as a country founded on the ideal of universal rights and then detain and torture people indefinitely for no declared reason kind of undermines our legitimacy. I'm terrified more of being locked up without committing a crime than I am of a guy with a bomb I guess.
Are you one of those fucks who are more worried about our "image" instead of our "security"?

If so, let me point you towards the closest bridge over looking a busy freeway for you to jump from.

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post #26 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-25-2009, 10:54 PM
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I heard a BBC broadcast related to closing the detention camp at Gitmo. Even the BBC, who couldn't lean any further left without falling over said they think this is a bad decision. When the President of the United States is more leftist than the BBC, we're well and truly fucked.

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post #27 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 06:41 AM
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Are you one of those fucks who are more worried about our "image" instead of our "security"?

If so, let me point you towards the closest bridge over looking a busy freeway for you to jump from.
If the government decided you were a security risk and threw you in jail for a couple years without ever charging you with anything or letting you see the light of day, I bet you wouldn't be singing the praises of the system anymore. "Oh, but my government wouldn't do that to me..." Or what if you were walking down the street and the Chinese pulled up and threw you in a van, took you back over there and put you in their version of gitmo? I bet you'd say, "Oh it's OK, they thought I might be a terrorist." Bullshit, WW3 would officially be on and you'd be at the head of the line calling for it. But that wouldn't happen, because you're an American, and things like that don't happen to Americans, right?

The problem isn't that terrorists are being detained, it's that possibly (probably) people who aren't terrorists are being detained.

And don't give me some security bullshit. I feel more secure without giving the Arab world ammo to rally against us. Yeah they will strike again, it will most likely be on Obama's watch, and everybody who voted against him will point and say "AHA!" Then we'll fight about that while they sit back and laugh. You think they don't know that? And it has absolutely nothing to do with whether Gitmo is operating, or I have to take my shoes off to get on a plane, or my phone lines are tapped, or anything else that is supposedly making us more "secure." Fact of the matter is they could have struck anytime they wanted anyway, but apparently they're smart enough to know how predictable we are. Tell me Achmed couldn't get himself a Uhaul full of fertilizer and park it in front of any building in downtown Dallas TODAY?? Secure my ass. They're trying to fuck with us, and they're succeeding. They hit us, we get irrational and spend a bunch of money/fight for a while. The hornet's nest calms down a little eventually, they hit us again, more money and more fighting, see the pattern? They can do this all day, we can't. They know that. Like I said, I don't have the answer unfortunately. I wish I did. Sacrificing human rights for the illusion of security ain't it though.

Flame suit on/
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post #28 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 07:05 AM
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Gotta admit, he's got a point...
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post #29 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 07:13 AM
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If the government decided you were a security risk and threw you in jail for a couple years without ever charging you with anything or letting you see the light of day, I bet you wouldn't be singing the praises of the system anymore. "Oh, but my government wouldn't do that to me..." Or what if you were walking down the street and the Chinese pulled up and threw you in a van, took you back over there and put you in their version of gitmo? I bet you'd say, "Oh it's OK, they thought I might be a terrorist." Bullshit, WW3 would officially be on and you'd be at the head of the line calling for it. But that wouldn't happen, because you're an American, and things like that don't happen to Americans, right?

The problem isn't that terrorists are being detained, it's that possibly (probably) people who aren't terrorists are being detained.

And don't give me some security bullshit. I feel more secure without giving the Arab world ammo to rally against us. Yeah they will strike again, it will most likely be on Obama's watch, and everybody who voted against him will point and say "AHA!" Then we'll fight about that while they sit back and laugh. You think they don't know that? And it has absolutely nothing to do with whether Gitmo is operating, or I have to take my shoes off to get on a plane, or my phone lines are tapped, or anything else that is supposedly making us more "secure." Fact of the matter is they could have struck anytime they wanted anyway, but apparently they're smart enough to know how predictable we are. Tell me Achmed couldn't get himself a Uhaul full of fertilizer and park it in front of any building in downtown Dallas TODAY?? Secure my ass. They're trying to fuck with us, and they're succeeding. They hit us, we get irrational and spend a bunch of money/fight for a while. The hornet's nest calms down a little eventually, they hit us again, more money and more fighting, see the pattern? They can do this all day, we can't. They know that. Like I said, I don't have the answer unfortunately. I wish I did. Sacrificing human rights for the illusion of security ain't it though.

Flame suit on/
The beloved FDR had interment camps for Japanese-Americans. Paranoid? Maybe. Effective? Hell, yeah. What we need to do is kill them all first, then close GITMO. If there's any proof that they were involved in terrorism in any way, it's the death penalty. Firing squad, hanging, beheading, whatever. Put it on FoX News and show the world we are not jacking around with these guys anymore. See, we're trying to fight uncivilized folks in a civil manor. It won't work. It's like having rules in a bar room brawl. Instead of catering to the prisoners with proper food, prayer rugs, and the Koran, we should be starving them out, burning their Koran, and pissing on that prayer rug. It's what they understand.

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post #30 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 07:24 AM
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And don't give me some security bullshit. I feel more secure without giving the Arab world ammo to rally against us. Yeah they will strike again, it will most likely be on Obama's watch, and everybody who voted against him will point and say "AHA!" Then we'll fight about that while they sit back and laugh. You think they don't know that? And it has absolutely nothing to do with whether Gitmo is operating, or I have to take my shoes off to get on a plane, or my phone lines are tapped, or anything else that is supposedly making us more "secure." Fact of the matter is they could have struck anytime they wanted anyway, but apparently they're smart enough to know how predictable we are. Tell me Achmed couldn't get himself a Uhaul full of fertilizer and park it in front of any building in downtown Dallas TODAY?? Secure my ass. They're trying to fuck with us, and they're succeeding. They hit us, we get irrational and spend a bunch of money/fight for a while. The hornet's nest calms down a little eventually, they hit us again, more money and more fighting, see the pattern? They can do this all day, we can't. They know that. Like I said, I don't have the answer unfortunately. I wish I did. Sacrificing human rights for the illusion of security ain't it though.

Flame suit on/
One answer in the near term is covert operations, with interogations, assassinations, etc. carried out away from the media spotlight. Do you think obama is going to support such operations though, given that he loves posing in front of the camera so much and has publicly endorsed a policy of government "transparency".
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post #31 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 07:49 AM
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One answer in the near term is covert operations, with interogations, assassinations, etc. carried out away from the media spotlight. Do you think obama is going to support such operations though, given that he loves posing in front of the camera so much and has publicly endorsed a policy of government "transparency".
We'll see, hopefully he has more sense than most people on here give him credit for, all I know is he's all we've got so I don't see much alternative to giving him a chance.
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post #32 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 09:31 AM
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One answer in the near term is covert operations, with interogations, assassinations, etc. carried out away from the media spotlight. Do you think obama is going to support such operations though, given that he loves posing in front of the camera so much and has publicly endorsed a policy of government "transparency".

No politician gets to be the POTUS without skills on dirty backroom deals.
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post #33 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 07:05 PM
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The beloved FDR had interment camps for Japanese-Americans. Paranoid? Maybe. Effective? Hell, yeah. What we need to do is kill them all first, then close GITMO. If there's any proof that they were involved in terrorism in any way, it's the death penalty. Firing squad, hanging, beheading, whatever. Put it on FoX News and show the world we are not jacking around with these guys anymore. See, we're trying to fight uncivilized folks in a civil manor. It won't work. It's like having rules in a bar room brawl. Instead of catering to the prisoners with proper food, prayer rugs, and the Koran, we should be starving them out, burning their Koran, and pissing on that prayer rug. It's what they understand.

Or just make them kneel and pop them one good time in the back of the head with a sledgehammer...
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post #34 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 09:02 PM
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If the government decided you were a security risk and threw you in jail for a couple years without ever charging you with anything or letting you see the light of day, I bet you wouldn't be singing the praises of the system anymore. "Oh, but my government wouldn't do that to me..." Or what if you were walking down the street and the Chinese pulled up and threw you in a van, took you back over there and put you in their version of gitmo? I bet you'd say, "Oh it's OK, they thought I might be a terrorist." Bullshit, WW3 would officially be on and you'd be at the head of the line calling for it. But that wouldn't happen, because you're an American, and things like that don't happen to Americans, right?

The problem isn't that terrorists are being detained, it's that possibly (probably) people who aren't terrorists are being detained.
What are the conditions that the government can throw a US citizen in jail, without trial? How many times has the Chinese taken an American and threw him in jail? How many times has America take someone from a country they weren't supposed to be in, and throw them in jail?

I like the whole gov. Men in Black thing.

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post #35 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 11:37 PM
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I heard the best idea yet today. Refurbish Alcatraz and move them all there. It's right in the middle of Pelosi's district

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post #36 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 12:50 AM
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I heard the best idea yet today. Refurbish Alcatraz and move them all there. It's right in the middle of Pelosi's district
That just means they'll be free in no time, and setting up "american imagery" bombs.

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post #37 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 12:58 AM
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Posts: 5,782
Quote:
Originally Posted by vtstang66 View Post
If the government decided you were a security risk and threw you in jail for a couple years without ever charging you with anything or letting you see the light of day, I bet you wouldn't be singing the praises of the system anymore. "Oh, but my government wouldn't do that to me..." Or what if you were walking down the street and the Chinese pulled up and threw you in a van, took you back over there and put you in their version of gitmo? I bet you'd say, "Oh it's OK, they thought I might be a terrorist." Bullshit, WW3 would officially be on and you'd be at the head of the line calling for it. But that wouldn't happen, because you're an American, and things like that don't happen to Americans, right?

The problem isn't that terrorists are being detained, it's that possibly (probably) people who aren't terrorists are being detained.

And don't give me some security bullshit. I feel more secure without giving the Arab world ammo to rally against us. Yeah they will strike again, it will most likely be on Obama's watch, and everybody who voted against him will point and say "AHA!" Then we'll fight about that while they sit back and laugh. You think they don't know that? And it has absolutely nothing to do with whether Gitmo is operating, or I have to take my shoes off to get on a plane, or my phone lines are tapped, or anything else that is supposedly making us more "secure." Fact of the matter is they could have struck anytime they wanted anyway, but apparently they're smart enough to know how predictable we are. Tell me Achmed couldn't get himself a Uhaul full of fertilizer and park it in front of any building in downtown Dallas TODAY?? Secure my ass. They're trying to fuck with us, and they're succeeding. They hit us, we get irrational and spend a bunch of money/fight for a while. The hornet's nest calms down a little eventually, they hit us again, more money and more fighting, see the pattern? They can do this all day, we can't. They know that. Like I said, I don't have the answer unfortunately. I wish I did. Sacrificing human rights for the illusion of security ain't it though.

Flame suit on/
If the government decided i was a security risk, then i must be doing something wrong in life. . . . .

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post #38 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 01:08 AM
CJ
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 12,013
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Originally Posted by Magnus View Post
That just means they'll be free in no time, and setting up "american imagery" bombs.
they'll just blend right in with everyone else in san francisco, no one will even notice.
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post #39 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 06:01 AM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ellis County
Posts: 18,370
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Originally Posted by BP View Post
I heard the best idea yet today. Refurbish Alcatraz and move them all there. It's right in the middle of Pelosi's district
They could take them for a swim in the channel when the Great White's migrate through there, and aleviate a lot of our problems...

CHL holder and Conservative...AKA "Domestic Terrorist"
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