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post #1 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 06:33 PM Thread Starter
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So it begins...

Incremental tyranny...

Supreme Court Rules Against Fourth Amendment

http://www.infowars.com/?p=7168

Next to fall...right to bear arms and free speech. God help us.



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post #2 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 06:36 PM
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Wow.
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post #3 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 06:37 PM
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christ.......

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post #4 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 06:56 PM
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And some folks wonder how the POTUS can haunt us for generations. Perfect example...

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post #5 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 07:06 PM
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This is very disconcerting.

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post #6 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 07:14 PM
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we...are fucked.
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post #7 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 07:18 PM
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A much better explanation:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/15/wa...s.html?_r=2&hp

It's still complete bullshit. It essentially says that evidence is admissable as long as the police made a legitimate mistake in obtaining it. What kind of a fucking joke of a ruling is that? That's just what we need, more fucking loopholes and cover ups. Un-fucking-believable.
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post #8 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 07:20 PM
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we...are fucked.
yep, fucked.....
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post #9 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 07:34 PM
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Prisons are full so they turn the Douche bags back out on the streets via early release. The ACLU and Libs. don't want us to kill the ones on death row because there might be a 1 in a million chance they are innocent.
Who cares if they killed a family of 5 with a claw hammer and a crowbar.

So now they are changing laws so they cans use illegal means to put more folks in jail.
Oh and let's use tax payer money to feed and cloth the scum bags.
Fucking Brilliant.
We are we are so screwed, thanks to all the brain dead "Stupimotherfuckers" who voted for Obama.

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post #10 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 07:36 PM
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We are we are so screwed, thanks to all the brain dead "Stupimotherfuckers" who voted for Obama.
While we are screwed, this has shit to do with Obama.

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post #11 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 07:42 PM
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All the reason to buy more bullets.

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post #12 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 07:58 PM
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A much better explanation:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/15/wa...s.html?_r=2&hp

It's still complete bullshit. It essentially says that evidence is admissable as long as the police made a legitimate mistake in obtaining it. What kind of a fucking joke of a ruling is that? That's just what we need, more fucking loopholes and cover ups. Un-fucking-believable.

What's to stop the JBTs from staging "careless paperwork"? Nothing but the first guy who figures out the proper format.

The door is opened, and the conversation I had with the guy in the ammo store yesterday springs to mind. Totally unsolicited this guy went off on the government, how they are out of control, and how he has never before heard on as many fronts, as he is today, talk of a "revolution". Boiled down to he sees dozens of people a day, every day, who could care less who overhears them talking on this topic. And this is in only one store...
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post #13 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 08:31 PM
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What's to stop the JBTs from staging "careless paperwork"? Nothing but the first guy who figures out the proper format.

The door is opened, and the conversation I had with the guy in the ammo store yesterday springs to mind. Totally unsolicited this guy went off on the government, how they are out of control, and how he has never before heard on as many fronts, as he is today, talk of a "revolution". Boiled down to he sees dozens of people a day, every day, who could care less who overhears them talking on this topic. And this is in only one store...
well, we are seeing the beginning of too much crooked government. It will be interesting to see if/when the people have had enough, and rise up.

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post #14 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 08:50 PM
 
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This shouldn't surprise you too much (other than Kennedy). If you have watched the court you would know the conservatives always side with law enforcement.


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post #15 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 08:53 PM
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I can't get over this. I'd like to throw up. A lot.

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post #16 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 08:56 PM
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well, we are seeing the beginning of too much crooked government. It will be interesting to see if/when the people have had enough, and rise up.

<--has a single box of shotgun shells
You've got my number and I have you covered...
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post #17 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 09:16 PM
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What's to stop the JBTs from staging "careless paperwork"? Nothing but the first guy who figures out the proper format.

The door is opened, and the conversation I had with the guy in the ammo store yesterday springs to mind. Totally unsolicited this guy went off on the government, how they are out of control, and how he has never before heard on as many fronts, as he is today, talk of a "revolution". Boiled down to he sees dozens of people a day, every day, who could care less who overhears them talking on this topic. And this is in only one store...
You are exactly right. The first thing that will enter the mind of someone who finds evidence under a warrant that shouldn't have been issued is "how can I make this legit?". I find this all to be unbelievable.

You are hearing that sort of talk because of the economy. That and the fact that the bailout situation has been handled very poorly because there has been zero benefit to the man on the street.
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post #18 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 09:19 PM
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No two ways about it, history is being made, be it for better or worse.


Hopefully sanity will prevail...
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post #19 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 09:23 PM
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My roof covered from bullet hole damage?
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post #20 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 09:46 PM
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Groups of hundreds of thousands need to coalesce on D.C. and drag all of these rotten, good for nothing criminals we call justices and politicians into the street. I want to see these assholes answer for this.

HTF do they rule this way?!

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post #21 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 10:15 PM
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Illegal search and seizures for everyone!

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post #22 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 10:23 PM
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While we are screwed, this has shit to do with Obama.
Nothing to do with him? Look at all the crooks and socialist he is appointing. Would not suprise me if we got a few new supreme court judges really soon, guess who appoints them? Thats right Obama
What kind of poeple will he appoint more people to push the agenda mentiond above, so yes he has something to do with it.
Hell he is shaping policy and has not set foot in office.

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post #23 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-15-2009, 11:18 PM
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Now hold on, y'all...

Can you guys please take a minute and read this in detail? Say you found evidence that someone was a murderer or drug dealer through an illegal search. Does that mean you just want to write it off as a wash? Fuck that!!! Scum is scum... if they're found (I don't care how) then let 'em face the courts.

Now we have the part of the LEO that made the illegal bust. That person or party should be held responsible for conducting an illegal search, misconduct, policy violation, etc. That doesn't get them off the hook in any way. It just keeps evidence found as evidence admissible to the courts. Evidence is evidence. Period.

Then there are going to be exclusions to extreme incidents. Like one article said"
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“To trigger the exclusionary rule,” Chief Justice Roberts wrote, “police conduct must be sufficiently deliberate that exclusion can meaningfully deter it, and sufficiently culpable that such deterrence is worth the price paid by the justice system.”
I don't think criminals should get a "get out of jail free" card just because the LEO didn't abide by policy.








I know most of you will flip, but understand that anyone deviating from the policy and violating someone else's civil rights WILL be held accountable. It's just that any evidence found doesn't just get thrown out like it doesn't exist.
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post #24 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 05:25 AM
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Then there are going to be exclusions to extreme incidents. Like one article said"

I don't think criminals should get a "get out of jail free" card just because the LEO didn't abide by policy.


I know most of you will flip, but understand that anyone deviating from the policy and violating someone else's civil rights WILL be held accountable. It's just that any evidence found doesn't just get thrown out like it doesn't exist.

I don't disagree with you on this, though we both know that there are numerous incidents in which the LEOs get a pass and are not held accountable. What we are saying is that this will be exploited to the detriment of some who weren't necessarily in need of being exploited. Hell, how many in Dallas alone have we seen freed from prison in the last year who didn't commit the crimes they were accused of, freed by DNA?
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post #25 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 06:08 AM
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While we are screwed, this has shit to do with Obama.
I'm not blaming Obama. I said this is the reason that POTUS make a HUGE difference for generations. Their appointments, especially to the Supreme Court, can and do make an impact for years on end.

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post #26 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 06:36 AM
 
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Thought for today...

With the Supreme Court' newest ruling and the Bush era programs of wire-taps out side of a FISA court, suspension of habeas corpus, etc. Obama will be the most powerful president ever.

Just thought I'd mention that. Have a nice day!
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post #27 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 06:57 AM
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Thought for today...

With the Supreme Court' newest ruling and the Bush era programs of wire-taps out side of a FISA court, suspension of habeas corpus, etc. Obama will be the most powerful president ever.

Just thought I'd mention that. Have a nice day!



Thanks!

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post #28 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 07:18 AM
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The door is opened, and the conversation I had with the guy in the ammo store yesterday springs to mind. Totally unsolicited this guy went off on the government, how they are out of control, and how he has never before heard on as many fronts, as he is today, talk of a "revolution". Boiled down to he sees dozens of people a day, every day, who could care less who overhears them talking on this topic. And this is in only one store...

yep...5-6 years ago, buddy of mine would discuss politics, & the world in genereal. Told him the revoloution's coming, buti'm not gonna see it in my lifetime. Today, i believe that i will. The next few years are going to be real interesting

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post #29 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 07:23 AM
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I don't disagree with you on this, though we both know that there are numerous incidents in which the LEOs get a pass and are not held accountable. What we are saying is that this will be exploited to the detriment of some who weren't necessarily in need of being exploited. Hell, how many in Dallas alone have we seen freed from prison in the last year who didn't commit the crimes they were accused of, freed by DNA?
It's just our increasing technology over riding our "ancient practices" that were just a decade ago. Seriously, our advances this last 10 years surpass that of any other century or more... just like a verse out of the Book of Daniel, but I won't go there
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post #30 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 08:04 AM
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Now hold on, y'all...

Can you guys please take a minute and read this in detail? Say you found evidence that someone was a murderer or drug dealer through an illegal search. Does that mean you just want to write it off as a wash? Fuck that!!! Scum is scum... if they're found (I don't care how) then let 'em face the courts.

Now we have the part of the LEO that made the illegal bust. That person or party should be held responsible for conducting an illegal search, misconduct, policy violation, etc. That doesn't get them off the hook in any way. It just keeps evidence found as evidence admissible to the courts. Evidence is evidence. Period.

Then there are going to be exclusions to extreme incidents. Like one article said"

I don't think criminals should get a "get out of jail free" card just because the LEO didn't abide by policy.

I know most of you will flip, but understand that anyone deviating from the policy and violating someone else's civil rights WILL be held accountable. It's just that any evidence found doesn't just get thrown out like it doesn't exist.
The problem is that there won't be any accountability. You already have innocent people getting killed when someone can't get an address right on a search warrant, followed up by attempts to shrug all responsibility. They already point fingers at "confidential informants" or blame the people who own the house for defending themselves against wrongful intrusion.

"Those damn confidential informants are wrong again, oh oh but look, we found drugs! And now we can use them!"

What kind of accountability is there going to be when they kick down the wrong door and happen to find drugs? The answer is none. Because, there is going to be a wink and nudge down at the old Po-lice station and lots of jokes about "Ooops, wrong house" unless the person whose door got kicked in happens to have a bad ass attorney and thousands of dollars to blow to sue the shit out of people. It already happens like that, long before this ruling.

Fact is, there should be absolutely NO INCENTIVE for sloppy ass police work, none at all.
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post #31 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 08:27 AM
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The problem is that there won't be any accountability. You already have innocent people getting killed when someone can't get an address right on a search warrant, followed up by attempts to shrug all responsibility. They already point fingers at "confidential informants" or blame the people who own the house for defending themselves against wrongful intrusion.

"Those damn confidential informants are wrong again, oh oh but look, we found drugs! And now we can use them!"

What kind of accountability is there going to be when they kick down the wrong door and happen to find drugs? The answer is none. Because, there is going to be a wink and nudge down at the old Po-lice station and lots of jokes about "Ooops, wrong house" unless the person whose door got kicked in happens to have a bad ass attorney and thousands of dollars to blow to sue the shit out of people. It already happens like that, long before this ruling.

Fact is, there should be absolutely NO INCENTIVE for sloppy ass police work, none at all.
Alan, we're not going to have any more or less accountability anyway, so why not let anything found on fuck-ups stick in court? At least get something positive out of it.
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post #32 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 08:27 AM
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Thought for today...

With the Supreme Court' newest ruling and the Bush era programs of wire-taps out side of a FISA court, suspension of habeas corpus, etc. Obama will be the most powerful president ever.

Just thought I'd mention that. Have a nice day!
Dude...FUCK!!!!!

This is exactly what Clinton longed for.

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post #33 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 08:30 AM
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Dude...FUCK!!!!!

This is exactly what Clinton longed for.
That's enough to make Hugo Chavez jealous. LOL
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post #34 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 08:39 AM
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Incremental tyranny...

Supreme Court Rules Against Fourth Amendment

http://www.infowars.com/?p=7168

Next to fall...right to bear arms and free speech. God help us.



Fascinating, Alex Jones stuff in usually considered the stuff for liberal conspiracy theorists. 2/3 's of his stuff is "9/11 was an inside job".

And the reaction of this board....usually most measures to put more people in jail are applauded here...now you want to stick up for the criminals rights?
I feel a shift to the left here...........
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post #35 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 08:40 AM
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Alan, we're not going to have any more or less accountability anyway, so why not let anything found on fuck-ups stick in court? At least get something positive out of it.
Local government shouldn't be incentivized in any way to violate someone's constitutional rights. It really is as simple as that.
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post #36 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 08:41 AM
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Fascinating, Alex Jones stuff in usually considered the stuff for liberal conspiracy theorists. 2/3 's of his stuff is "9/11 was an inside job".

And the reaction of this board....usually most measures to put more people in jail are applauded here...now you want to stick up for the criminals rights?
I feel a shift to the left here...........
He made an attempt to fluff it up with bullshit, that is for sure. The NY Times article at least explains what the case was about.
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post #37 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 08:42 AM
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Local government shouldn't be incentivized in any way to violate someone's constitutional rights. It really is as simple as that.
Who gives a rat's ass about that when another criminal can get his day ruined?
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post #38 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 08:45 AM
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Local government shouldn't be incentivized in any way to violate someone's constitutional rights. It really is as simple as that.

That has an almost ACLU ring to it.
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post #39 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 08:47 AM
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That has an almost ACLU ring to it.
Shudders
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post #40 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 08:49 AM
 
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That has an almost ACLU ring to it.
It does. That doesn't make it wrong though.

IMO the only reason most of the right-wingers here are upset is they see this as opening the way to seazure of their arsenals. If that fear was removed I bet the mood would shift to one of 'screw the criminal.'

Edit - Denny has the attitude I would have expected from most on this board. (no offense Denny)
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post #41 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 08:51 AM
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It does. That doesn't make it wrong though.

IMO the only reason most of the right-wingers here are upset is they see this as opening the way to seazure of their arsenals. If that fear was removed I bet the mood would shift to one of 'screw the criminal.'
I consider myself pretty far Right, but I'm not too pissed at this. Like I said before, I'm not loyal to any "side." I just roll with logic. Most of the time, it falls on the Conservative side of things.
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post #42 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 08:52 AM
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Who gives a rat's ass about that when another criminal can get his day ruined?
Sorry, you won't convince me. You can't incentivize government without it exploiting it to the fullest extent possible. It's why cases like this are put in front of the court to begin with. Next time they'll be trying to push the envelope in another area.
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post #43 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 08:54 AM
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Uh, Denny, the end does not justify the means. Sorry, it just doesn't.

You can't illegally attain evidence to convict someone. Period! What's the difference between illegally knocking their door down versus illegally slipping drugs into their pocket?

This was all written very black-and-white by the framers of the Constitution and Bill of Rights - for a reason. Yes, you may get more slimeballs off the streets, but you're also going to have a lot more innocent people convicted by a tyrannical executive and judicial system with no recourse.

This is a sad day in America.
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post #44 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 08:54 AM
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Sorry, you won't convince me. You can't incentivize government without it exploiting it to the fullest extent possible. It's why cases like this are put in front of the court to begin with. Next time they'll be trying to push the envelope in another area.
Why are you just looking at that, rather than bettering society (since these screw-ups are going to happen either way)?
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post #45 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 08:56 AM
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Uh, Denny, the end does not justify the means. Sorry, it just doesn't.

You can't illegally attain evidence to convict someone. Period! What's the difference between illegally knocking their door down versus illegally slipping drugs into their pocket?

This was all written very black-and-white by the framers of the Constitution and Bill of Rights - for a reason. Yes, you may get more slimeballs off the streets, but you're also going to have a lot more innocent people convicted by a tyrannical executive and judicial system with no recourse.

This is a sad day in America.
No... the faults are going to be there anyway. Call me the "Dem of the Day," but I just can't justify letting EVIDENCE get tossed for bullshit that will happen ANYWAY.
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post #46 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 08:57 AM
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It does. That doesn't make it wrong though.

IMO the only reason most of the right-wingers here are upset is they see this as opening the way to seazure of their arsenals. If that fear was removed I bet the mood would shift to one of 'screw the criminal.'
You're probably right, limits on constitutional rights under Bush were applauded here.
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post #47 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 08:58 AM
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Edit - Denny has the attitude I would have expected from most on this board. (no offense Denny)
Why is that?!?! I'm going against the grain on this one.
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post #48 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 08:59 AM
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Beating a confession out of a suspect and then having it stand up in court FTW!

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post #49 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny View Post
Why are you just looking at that, rather than bettering society (since these screw-ups are going to happen either way)?
Because that is the important part. The idea behind our legal system has always been that ten guilty people should go free before one innocent is convicted. Don't you think law enforcement has enough ways to "better society"? I think they've been given plenty of tools to work with of late.
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post #50 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-16-2009, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny View Post
No... the faults are going to be there anyway. Call me the "Dem of the Day," but I just can't justify letting EVIDENCE get tossed for bullshit that will happen ANYWAY.
Don't you think the bullshit will happen more often? I sure do.
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