Is GM really this stupid. - DFWstangs Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 03:30 PM Thread Starter
Lost in suburbia HELLLLLL
 
prochargedpony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Mckinney, TX
Posts: 4,295
Is GM really this stupid.

They are putting on hold their electric vehicle to preserve cash, wow this should be good to see if the government likes them putting their "GREEN" car on hold. Shows their commitment to fuel efficiency. You would think they would put a hold on the LS based motors or their 6 cyc motors instead.

AP
GM puts Volt engine plant on hold to conserve cash
Wednesday December 17, 4:54 pm ET
GM puts brakes on Mich. factory that will build Volt engine as it tries to preserve cash


DETROIT (AP) -- General Motors Corp., anxiously conserving cash so it can keep operating into 2009, said Wednesday it would halt construction of a plant tied to one of its most important projects while the automaker awaits a Washington bailout.

GM said it is putting the brakes on the construction of a factory in Flint, Mich., set to make 1.4-liter engines for the Chevrolet Cruze and the Chevy Volt plug-in electric car.

It's just one more effort by GM to hold on to every penny possible as it speeds closer to the day when the 100-year-old industrial giant won't be able to pay its bills.

The company has been scaling back just about everywhere -- shutting down vehicle production, ending sports sponsorships, turning off escalators and even cutting back on office supplies -- to stay afloat.

GM is seeking up to $18 billion in government loans as it tries to survive the worst U.S. auto sales environment in 26 years. It says it needs $4 billion before this year runs out.

GM board member Kent Kresa told The Associated Press last week that the company might make it into the early part of the first quarter, depending on auto sales, yet GM has several billion dollars worth of supplier payments due shortly after the first of the year, and analysts have said the company probably doesn't have the cash to pay them.

GM announced plans in September for the new engine plant in Flint, 50 miles northwest of Detroit, and said production would begin in 2010. But the company is delaying the purchase of big-ticket items needed to build the factory, such as structural steel, spokeswoman Sharon Basel said.

The plant's engines will extend the range of the rechargeable Volt, GM's high-profile next-generation vehicle that will be able to travel 40 miles on electricity alone. They will also power the Cruze, GM's new small car that is supposed to get around 40 miles per gallon.

Basel said Volt and Cruze development will continue as scheduled and the company still plans to bring them to showrooms in 2010. The construction delay, she said, may be temporary until the company figures out its cash situation.

"Everything that involves heavy cash outlays obviously is under review," Basel said Wednesday. "Our intent is to still go forward with a new facility bringing that engine to Flint, Mich."

Basel said the delay, which The Flint Journal reported Wednesday on its Web site, is part of GM's overall effort to conserve cash until a decision is made on the government loans. President George W. Bush stepped forward to say he would act to save the domestic auto industry after a bill authorizing $14 billion in loans for GM and Chrysler LLC was thwarted in Congress.

Ford Motor Co. has said it has enough cash to survive 2009.

Bush administration officials said they were still evaluating options and attempting to avoid a disorderly bankruptcy of the companies while suggesting that concessions from all sides would need to accompany any deal. Several lawmakers have pressed for an array of terms and conditions in any deal crafted by the White House, complicating matters.

Meanwhile, GM has held off many large expenditures, such as the steel for the Flint plant, Basel said.

"Those are huge cash outlays, and we don't have the cash," she said.

Basel said there is plenty of time to build the factory, install equipment and get it up and running in time to produce engines for the two new cars. The company already makes the 1.4-liter engine at a plant in Austria, she said, giving it another option for engines.

"We have lots of options. The construction of the new plant is not going to interrupt our plans for the Volt or Cruze," Basel said.

Work will continue as scheduled on the Lordstown, Ohio, assembly plant, which will make the Cruze starting in mid-2010, said GM spokesman Chris Lee. The company has not formally announced where the Volt will be built, although the Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly Plant was identified in the 2007 contract with the United Auto Workers. Lee said Volt production remains on schedule for later in 2010.

GM said in September it would invest $370 million in the new factory, which will employ 330 hourly and salaried workers and allow the company to double its global production of smaller engines by 2011. The plant will have 300 flexible work stations that will let GM build different four-cylinder engines without retooling.

The United Auto Workers union agreed that new hires for the plant would be paid $14 per hour, about half the wages of a current UAW worker. It also agreed to a new flexible pact with GM that lets workers do multiple jobs.

The new factory brings the prospect of more jobs to an industrial city hard hit by auto job losses. GM's nearby Flint Engine North plant closed in August.

The state of Michigan approved $132.5 million in tax incentives for the automaker to spend $838 million on the new plant and to upgrade four other facilities.

Shares of GM rose 7 cents, or 1.7 percent, to $4.32 in afternoon trading.

93gt boss block, 185 cnc trick flow heads, undisclosed cam specs, YS trim, saleen intake nice and shiny. car is spotted primer currently


05 honda accord coupe daily driver
00z28 new catfish moser 9in, pat g custom cam, ls6 intake, long tubes, built 6spd and much more.
prochargedpony is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 03:39 PM
T-MINUS
 
Sean88gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 28,540
I would put money on the fact that they are doing this to get Washington to jump through their ass and get them money.

The fact is, people want to buy nice vehicles that are fuel efficient, not shitboxes that get decent mileage. If GM was smart, they would start creating SUV's that get 30+ MPG.

If fuel gets high again, I'll buy a vette.

They need to make the CAFE standards go away. The government needs to completely back out of the car business.

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
Pericles "Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it. "

"[T]he people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government and to reform, alter, or totally change the same when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it." --Samuel Adams


Sean88gt is offline  
post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 03:39 PM
Aspiring Bean Counter.
 
Slowhand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Howard Johnson's Earthlight Room
Posts: 12,279
Are you that stupid? There are a lot of reasons to do what they're doing. For starters, that 1.4 liter engine is going to be built in relatively low numbers at a high cost. Not to mention it's a hellluvalot cheaper to produce an LS motor because the tooling and architecture is already paid for.

Slowhand is offline  
 
post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 03:39 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bedford, TX
Posts: 295
GM Fail.

SCT Tuned, K&N 77-Series Intake, Magnaflow Duals Cat-back, Cragar / Weld Prostars w/ BFG Radials..
Ohh yeah it's a Ranger..
crashonthebeach is offline  
post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 03:41 PM
Worship me
 
AL P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 34,345
Let the company do what it needs to do to survive. You think anyone is going to buy a fucking Chevy Volt when gas is $1.50 a gallon?? That's fucking crazy!
AL P is offline  
post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 03:43 PM
T-MINUS
 
Sean88gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 28,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by AL P
Let the company do what it needs to do to survive. You think anyone is going to buy a fucking Chevy Volt when gas is $1.50 a gallon?? That's fucking crazy!
But it has a range of 40 miles!!

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
Pericles "Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it. "

"[T]he people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government and to reform, alter, or totally change the same when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it." --Samuel Adams


Sean88gt is offline  
post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 03:44 PM
Punk Ass Newbie
 
Chuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Providence Village
Posts: 4,554
Building a new factory when you can't even pay your normal bills would be stupid.

Looks like they're doing what they need to do.

Chuck
2001 Black Bullitt (For Sale)
2009 Black JK Unlimited X, M6, 35's
www.imboc.com
Rob (Tweakd) Memorial 3/13/05
Chuck is offline  
post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 03:44 PM
Lifer
 
46Tbird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 33,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by AL P
Let the company do what it needs to do to survive. You think anyone is going to buy a fucking Chevy Volt when gas is $1.50 a gallon?? That's fucking crazy!
LOL, exactly. I was wondering who he was calling stupid after reading that post.
46Tbird is offline  
post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 03:57 PM Thread Starter
Lost in suburbia HELLLLLL
 
prochargedpony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Mckinney, TX
Posts: 4,295
It is stupid, the volt is going to be built overseas and brought to the states. The LS is cheaper but they aren't selling, so why build something no one is buying right now. The volt isn't alone going to save them, but look at toyota they were getting mid to high 20 and sometimes low 30's out of a fucking prius and selling alot of them. GM instead builds a fucking hybrid tahoe and escalade.

93gt boss block, 185 cnc trick flow heads, undisclosed cam specs, YS trim, saleen intake nice and shiny. car is spotted primer currently


05 honda accord coupe daily driver
00z28 new catfish moser 9in, pat g custom cam, ls6 intake, long tubes, built 6spd and much more.
prochargedpony is offline  
post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 03:59 PM
T-MINUS
 
Sean88gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 28,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by prochargedpony
It is stupid, the volt is going to be built overseas and brought to the states. The LS is cheaper but they aren't selling, so why build something no one is buying right now. The volt isn't alone going to save them, but look at toyota they were getting mid to high 20 and sometimes low 30's out of a fucking prius and selling alot of them. GM instead builds a fucking hybrid tahoe and escalade.
And would have sold a shitload of them had they not been 60k a pop.

UAWless hybrid Tahoe = 37,500

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
Pericles "Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it. "

"[T]he people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government and to reform, alter, or totally change the same when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it." --Samuel Adams


Sean88gt is offline  
post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 04:00 PM
Worship me
 
AL P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 34,345
I just don't see any other way for them to make it.

The economy has become a paradox. Easy credit and people buying a lot of shit they don't need messed it all up and now the only way out is more easy credit and more buying of shit we don't need.
AL P is offline  
post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 04:05 PM Thread Starter
Lost in suburbia HELLLLLL
 
prochargedpony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Mckinney, TX
Posts: 4,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean88gt
And would have sold a shitload of them had they not been 60k a pop.

UAWless hybrid Tahoe = 37,500

I agree, I was working at GM when they first came out nice truck, but not at the price. Just poor decisions, the reason I brought this up wasn't for the loss of sales, part of the original bailout was for them to produce "green cars", they halt production on the new plan, I understand they have no cash but that plant was for gaining more mileage out of that battery.

93gt boss block, 185 cnc trick flow heads, undisclosed cam specs, YS trim, saleen intake nice and shiny. car is spotted primer currently


05 honda accord coupe daily driver
00z28 new catfish moser 9in, pat g custom cam, ls6 intake, long tubes, built 6spd and much more.
prochargedpony is offline  
post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 04:07 PM Thread Starter
Lost in suburbia HELLLLLL
 
prochargedpony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Mckinney, TX
Posts: 4,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by AL P
I just don't see any other way for them to make it.

The economy has become a paradox. Easy credit and people buying a lot of shit they don't need messed it all up and now the only way out is more easy credit and more buying of shit we don't need.

You are talking about the american way.

93gt boss block, 185 cnc trick flow heads, undisclosed cam specs, YS trim, saleen intake nice and shiny. car is spotted primer currently


05 honda accord coupe daily driver
00z28 new catfish moser 9in, pat g custom cam, ls6 intake, long tubes, built 6spd and much more.
prochargedpony is offline  
post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 04:17 PM
Lifer
 
46Tbird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 33,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean88gt
And would have sold a shitload of them had they not been 60k a pop.

UAWless hybrid Tahoe = 37,500
I hope everyone knows that the Hybrid Tahoe get exactly one (1) mpg more than a standard Tahoe.
46Tbird is offline  
post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 04:20 PM
T-MINUS
 
Sean88gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 28,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by 46Tbird
I hope everyone knows that the Hybrid Tahoe get exactly one (1) mpg more than a standard Tahoe.
A diesel tahoe would see 6-10mpg more

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
Pericles "Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it. "

"[T]he people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government and to reform, alter, or totally change the same when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it." --Samuel Adams


Sean88gt is offline  
post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 04:26 PM
Lifer
 
46Tbird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 33,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean88gt
A diesel tahoe would see 6-10mpg more
Right. And probably cleaner emissions to boot.

I wouldn't own one of those Hybrid GM trucks if it was given to me. Too much to go wrong.

FYI - my dad was responsible for putting all the "HYBRID" graphics on those trucks. For half the production run, anyway.
46Tbird is offline  
post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 04:40 PM
Lifer
 
46Tbird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 33,187
Seriously, has anyone done a case study to determine the actual environmental (energy) impact of developing, manufacturing, using, and destroying all these weird and offbeat technologies?

I think it's pretty safe to say that a gasoline / electric vehicle is not truly the wave of the future. And I'm not convinced that it's environmentally "worth it" to build the things or even less damaging to the environment than a standard gas burner.

The government is making these new technologies part of the requirement for getting money, have they even proven that the new technologies are worthwhile? Fuck no. It's all about the appearance of being environmentally-conscious, without any proof to back it up. I'm sorry, but a Hybrid vehicle that gets 1 more mpg than a standard counterpart is just fucking dumb.
46Tbird is offline  
post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 04:41 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Arlington
Posts: 1,028
Quote:
Originally Posted by 46Tbird
I hope everyone knows that the Hybrid Tahoe get exactly one (1) mpg more than a standard Tahoe.

I think you meant to say it gets 2mpg more hwy and 7mpg city better then the standard tahoe 2wd.

MrSS is offline  
post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 04:43 PM
Lifer
 
46Tbird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 33,187
When I was looking at the window stickers of the 500 or so trucks lined up, they were getting 20mpg with the gas version, and 21 with the hybrid. Don't remember now if that was highway or city, but that sounds like highway. And that was with the same 6.0 size engine and the same bodystyle.

Plus the Hybrids were slower.
46Tbird is offline  
post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 04:44 PM
Lifer
 
stocksilver02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: grand prairie
Posts: 1,570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean88gt
But it has a range of 40 miles!!
Man, that's a pretty short life span. You didn't by chance mean 40 Miles per gallon?

New ride 03 RC 51-Stock with a custom body kit and paint job.
stocksilver02 is offline  
post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 05:24 PM
How you doin'
 
STANGGT40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: 8 Rib > 6 Rib
Posts: 28,254
Quote:
Originally Posted by stocksilver02
Man, that's a pretty short life span. You didn't by chance mean 40 Miles per gallon?
he means that it can go 40 miles on a charge.
STANGGT40 is offline  
post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 06:05 PM
T-MINUS
 
Sean88gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 28,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by stocksilver02
Man, that's a pretty short life span. You didn't by chance mean 40 Miles per gallon?
Nope, it has a range of 40 miles before you have to find a charge or the gas engine takes over.

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
Pericles "Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it. "

"[T]he people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government and to reform, alter, or totally change the same when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it." --Samuel Adams


Sean88gt is offline  
post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 06:13 PM
DERP DERP DERP
 
90GT50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Close one eye, step to the side.
Posts: 36,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by STANGGT40
he means that it can go 40 miles on a charge.
Yep, the tesla only goes 200 miles before the fucker dies without warning and leaves you stranded, lol. (watch the new top gear episode on hessmo.com to see what I'm talking about.)

90GT50 is offline  
post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 06:25 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bedford, TX
Posts: 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by 46Tbird
When I was looking at the window stickers of the 500 or so trucks lined up, they were getting 20mpg with the gas version, and 21 with the hybrid. Don't remember now if that was highway or city, but that sounds like highway. And that was with the same 6.0 size engine and the same bodystyle.

Plus the Hybrids were slower.
they post 0-60 times on the stickers now?

SCT Tuned, K&N 77-Series Intake, Magnaflow Duals Cat-back, Cragar / Weld Prostars w/ BFG Radials..
Ohh yeah it's a Ranger..
crashonthebeach is offline  
post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-17-2008, 07:44 PM
WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS!
 
Sgt Beavis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Lake Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,859
How is this stupid?

They don't NEED the plant. Delaying it doesn't delay the car. They even have an alternative factory that is building the very same engine right now. All this does is save them some much needed cash.

The Volt isn't going to save GM. Hell, GM has already admitted that the car won't make a profit. They are going to make it up by transplanting the battery and drive train tech into multiple vehicles. It is built on the Delta platform that is shared by Chevy Cruze, Vue, next gen Equinox, Caddy SRX, and other vehicles around the world so sharing the tech will be easy..

The car that MIGHT save GM is the Chevy Cruze. GM will finally have a compact car that looks great and has an interior that isn't cheap ass. They will finally have a car that compete with the Honda Civic. GM is claiming 40mpg for this car. It just went on sale in Europe and is selling really well so far. It should go on sale in the US in late 2009 or early 2010.

We're Adopting. Contact us through our website.

http://www.theboyetts.com

You can also LIKE us on Facebook
Sgt Beavis is offline  
post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-18-2008, 02:52 PM
Sports weenie @ full attn
 
ZYouL8R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Laughlin AFB
Posts: 5,638
I don't give a shit what they do as long as they start producing Camaros.

ZYouL8R is offline  
post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-18-2008, 03:38 PM
IA2
 
mikeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 22,413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muffrazr
You didn't by chance forget to read the article, did you?

Yes, the volt has a range of 40 miles, likely with the electric motor.
Well there is progress. GM once had an electric car called the EV1 that had a range of almost 100 miles. Even though they had 5000 customers begging for them, GM recalled all of them and crushed them. This is one of my frustrations with the US automakers, they had plenty of opportunities to innovate (and actually did some innovation) but then they would do something stupid.

There is no reason why the US should not be not the leader in fuel efficient vehicles except for shortsightedness and greed.
mikeb is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the DFWstangs Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome