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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-08-2008, 10:22 AM Thread Starter
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I love the sense of entitlement in this story...

Everyone owes me money...why? Just because.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/12/08/chi...est/index.html

CHICAGO, Illinois (CNN) -- A weekend sit-in by laid-off workers at a Chicago window factory drew high-profile support from President-elect Barack Obama ahead of a Monday meeting between union leaders and the plant's major creditor.

Workers occupy the Republic Windows and Doors factory Saturday in Chicago, Illinois.

About 200 workers from the United Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers of America have conducted what they call a "peaceful occupation" of the Republic Windows and Doors plant since Friday when their abruptly announced layoffs were supposed to take effect.

The workers said Republic told them Bank of America had cut off credit to the company and gave them three days' notice that they were losing their jobs. Federal law requires either 60 days' notice or 60 days' pay for the laid-off workers.

"We had started to notice things, like machines, disappearing from the plant during the weekends under cover of darkness," UE member Melvin Maclin said.

"So we began asking questions, and management assured us everything was fine."

Company executives have not commented and did not take part in a Friday meeting between the union, Bank of America and U.S. Rep. Luis Guiterrez, D-Illinois. Another meeting between bank officials and the workers is scheduled for Monday afternoon.

Leading political figures in the Chicago area have turned out to support the sit-in -- including the former South Side state senator who was elected president last month.

"No. 1, I think that these workers, if they have earned these benefits and their pay, then these companies need to follow through on those commitments," Obama said during a news conference Sunday.

"And, No. 2, I think it is important for us to make sure that, moving forward, any economic plan that we put in place helps businesses to meet payroll so that we're not seeing these kinds of circumstances again."

Civil rights leader the Rev. Jesse Jackson delivered turkeys to the workers Sunday, and U.S. Jan Schakowsky, D-Illinois, said Republic needs to follow the law and provide the required pay and benefits to the workers.

"These are 300 jobs we ought to save, a product they make we ought to save, and we need to work out something better than just saying, 'Bye bye, workers.' That is not satisfying," Schakowsky said.

Bank of America says the company has walked away and ignored its obligation to the workers. But union leaders argue that since the bank received $25 billion in taxpayer funds as part of the U.S. Treasury's efforts to stabilize the financial markets, it should step in where the company has failed.

"These people would be out on the street three weeks before Christmas with nothing," national union representative Mark Meinster said. "But what's happened here is workers have decided to stand up and say no, enough is enough. You got that big bailout -- you can make sure we get the money we're owed and say, 'No, enough is enough.' "


In a statement over the weekend, Bank of America said Republic has faced "extreme financial hardship" and that it would soon decide how to proceed.

However, it added, "Neither Bank of America nor any other third-party lender to the company has the right to control whether the company complies with applicable laws or honors its commitments to its employees."
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-08-2008, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AL P
Everyone owes me money...why? Just because.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/12/08/chi...est/index.html

CHICAGO, Illinois (CNN) -- A weekend sit-in by laid-off workers at a Chicago window factory drew high-profile support from President-elect Barack Obama ahead of a Monday meeting between union leaders and the plant's major creditor.

Workers occupy the Republic Windows and Doors factory Saturday in Chicago, Illinois.

About 200 workers from the United Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers of America have conducted what they call a "peaceful occupation" of the Republic Windows and Doors plant since Friday when their abruptly announced layoffs were supposed to take effect.

The workers said Republic told them Bank of America had cut off credit to the company and gave them three days' notice that they were losing their jobs. Federal law requires either 60 days' notice or 60 days' pay for the laid-off workers.

"We had started to notice things, like machines, disappearing from the plant during the weekends under cover of darkness," UE member Melvin Maclin said.

"So we began asking questions, and management assured us everything was fine."

Company executives have not commented and did not take part in a Friday meeting between the union, Bank of America and U.S. Rep. Luis Guiterrez, D-Illinois. Another meeting between bank officials and the workers is scheduled for Monday afternoon.

Leading political figures in the Chicago area have turned out to support the sit-in -- including the former South Side state senator who was elected president last month.

"No. 1, I think that these workers, if they have earned these benefits and their pay, then these companies need to follow through on those commitments," Obama said during a news conference Sunday.

"And, No. 2, I think it is important for us to make sure that, moving forward, any economic plan that we put in place helps businesses to meet payroll so that we're not seeing these kinds of circumstances again."

Civil rights leader the Rev. Jesse Jackson delivered turkeys to the workers Sunday, and U.S. Jan Schakowsky, D-Illinois, said Republic needs to follow the law and provide the required pay and benefits to the workers.

"These are 300 jobs we ought to save, a product they make we ought to save, and we need to work out something better than just saying, 'Bye bye, workers.' That is not satisfying," Schakowsky said.

Bank of America says the company has walked away and ignored its obligation to the workers. But union leaders argue that since the bank received $25 billion in taxpayer funds as part of the U.S. Treasury's efforts to stabilize the financial markets, it should step in where the company has failed.

"These people would be out on the street three weeks before Christmas with nothing," national union representative Mark Meinster said. "But what's happened here is workers have decided to stand up and say no, enough is enough. You got that big bailout -- you can make sure we get the money we're owed and say, 'No, enough is enough.' "


In a statement over the weekend, Bank of America said Republic has faced "extreme financial hardship" and that it would soon decide how to proceed.

However, it added, "Neither Bank of America nor any other third-party lender to the company has the right to control whether the company complies with applicable laws or honors its commitments to its employees."
Re: your bold section...

Isn't that what the money should be used for? If banks are receiving my money and your money and even gpamp's money, what would you want them to do with it? Have them sit on it for years upon years only to have that $25b collect interest, which we would never see again?

Now, should that company/union be entitled to money just because BoA got a piece? That all just depends on how much BoA needs to keep their corporation from going belly under. My personal take on the matter is that they probably didn't need a single dime.

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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-08-2008, 10:45 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geor!
Re: your bold section...

Isn't that what the money should be used for? If banks are receiving my money and your money and even gpamp's money, what would you want them to do with it? Have them sit on it for years upon years only to have that $25b collect interest, which we would never see again?

Now, should that company/union be entitled to money just because BoA got a piece? That all just depends on how much BoA needs to keep their corporation from going belly under. My personal take on the matter is that they probably didn't need a single dime.
No, it should be used for making loans. If BofA uses the money as capital for loans it can generate many times the original dollar amount in economic benefit. The original idea of the government helping the banks was to keep companies like this afloat.

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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-08-2008, 10:49 AM Thread Starter
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Another good one:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/28112901

Many Borrowers Re-Default After Mortgage Is Modified

Many borrowers who received help with mortgage modifications earlier this year tended to re-default on their payments, a top U.S. banking regulator said on Monday, citing recent data.

"The results, I confess, were somewhat surprising, and not in a good way," John Dugan, head of the U.S. Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, said in prepared remarks for a U.S. housing forum.

"Put simply, it shows that over half of mortgage modifications seemed not to be working after six months." Dugan said based on data collected from some of the biggest U.S. institutions, like Bank of America [BAC 17.28 2.04 (+13.39%) ], Citibank [C 8.23 0.52 (+6.74%) ] and JPMorgan Chase [JPM 35.61 2.26 (+6.78%) ], home foreclosure starts fell by 2.6 percent in the three months ended in September.

However, data which is to be issued by the OCC and the Office of the Thrift Supervision next week could throw cold water on a push by some U.S. policymakers for loan modifications as the key remedy for the ailing U.S. financial and economic crisis.

Dugan said recent data showed that after three months, nearly 36 percent of borrowers who received restructured mortgages in the first quarter re-defaulted.

The rate of re-default jumped to about 53 percent after six months and 58 percent after eight months, Dugan said, without providing an explanation for the trend.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-08-2008, 11:00 AM
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someone needs to tell me more about this "federal" requirement of 60 days notice or 60 days pay BS... sounds more like a UNION requirement to me because I have been laid off plenty in the past and got paid through that day and maybe some pending vacation....that's it!

If the company can't pay bills and closes, tough shit. go find another fucking job....


The re-defaulting article is humorous for sure!



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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-08-2008, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AL P
Everyone owes me money...why? Just because.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/12/08/chi...est/index.html

CHICAGO, Illinois (CNN) -- A weekend sit-in by laid-off workers at a Chicago window factory drew high-profile support from President-elect Barack Obama ahead of a Monday meeting between union leaders and the plant's major creditor.

Workers occupy the Republic Windows and Doors factory Saturday in Chicago, Illinois.

About 200 workers from the United Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers of America have conducted what they call a "peaceful occupation" of the Republic Windows and Doors plant since Friday when their abruptly announced layoffs were supposed to take effect.

The workers said Republic told them Bank of America had cut off credit to the company and gave them three days' notice that they were losing their jobs. Federal law requires either 60 days' notice or 60 days' pay for the laid-off workers.

"We had started to notice things, like machines, disappearing from the plant during the weekends under cover of darkness," UE member Melvin Maclin said.

"So we began asking questions, and management assured us everything was fine."

Company executives have not commented and did not take part in a Friday meeting between the union, Bank of America and U.S. Rep. Luis Guiterrez, D-Illinois. Another meeting between bank officials and the workers is scheduled for Monday afternoon.

Leading political figures in the Chicago area have turned out to support the sit-in -- including the former South Side state senator who was elected president last month.

"No. 1, I think that these workers, if they have earned these benefits and their pay, then these companies need to follow through on those commitments," Obama said during a news conference Sunday.

"And, No. 2, I think it is important for us to make sure that, moving forward, any economic plan that we put in place helps businesses to meet payroll so that we're not seeing these kinds of circumstances again."

Civil rights leader the Rev. Jesse Jackson delivered turkeys to the workers Sunday, and U.S. Jan Schakowsky, D-Illinois, said Republic needs to follow the law and provide the required pay and benefits to the workers.

"These are 300 jobs we ought to save, a product they make we ought to save, and we need to work out something better than just saying, 'Bye bye, workers.' That is not satisfying," Schakowsky said.

Bank of America says the company has walked away and ignored its obligation to the workers. But union leaders argue that since the bank received $25 billion in taxpayer funds as part of the U.S. Treasury's efforts to stabilize the financial markets, it should step in where the company has failed.

"These people would be out on the street three weeks before Christmas with nothing," national union representative Mark Meinster said. "But what's happened here is workers have decided to stand up and say no, enough is enough. You got that big bailout -- you can make sure we get the money we're owed and say, 'No, enough is enough.' "


In a statement over the weekend, Bank of America said Republic has faced "extreme financial hardship" and that it would soon decide how to proceed.

However, it added, "Neither Bank of America nor any other third-party lender to the company has the right to control whether the company complies with applicable laws or honors its commitments to its employees."
Saw a spot on this on CBS this morning....the whole "poor workers" story. Had a state rep there clamoring about how these poor people had produced product, and were not getting paid...on, and on, and on, demanding that they get their 60 days severance pay. Then the rep takes off on BoA..how they should be held accountable for this. No mention of where the factory management was, or why they should NOT be the ones taken to task. Only mention was that BoA stated that it was "a bad loan"..

Yeah, i'm sorry folks got shut down during the "holidays" But Goddamn, give me a break. 2 months pay for screwing together windows....F%@*&%*$% Union bullshit.


And Fuck Jesse Jackson

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-08-2008, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AL P
Another good one:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/28112901

Many Borrowers Re-Default After Mortgage Is Modified

Many borrowers who received help with mortgage modifications earlier this year tended to re-default on their payments, a top U.S. banking regulator said on Monday, citing recent data.

"The results, I confess, were somewhat surprising, and not in a good way," John Dugan, head of the U.S. Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, said in prepared remarks for a U.S. housing forum.

"Put simply, it shows that over half of mortgage modifications seemed not to be working after six months." Dugan said based on data collected from some of the biggest U.S. institutions, like Bank of America [BAC 17.28 2.04 (+13.39%) ], Citibank [C 8.23 0.52 (+6.74%) ] and JPMorgan Chase [JPM 35.61 2.26 (+6.78%) ], home foreclosure starts fell by 2.6 percent in the three months ended in September.

However, data which is to be issued by the OCC and the Office of the Thrift Supervision next week could throw cold water on a push by some U.S. policymakers for loan modifications as the key remedy for the ailing U.S. financial and economic crisis.

Dugan said recent data showed that after three months, nearly 36 percent of borrowers who received restructured mortgages in the first quarter re-defaulted.

The rate of re-default jumped to about 53 percent after six months and 58 percent after eight months, Dugan said, without providing an explanation for the trend.
Re bolded portion:

I think I know the answer. People who got in trouble without the bail out are not the type to have fixed all of their personal issues and poor planning just because they get bailed out. They continue to make poor decisions and spend beyond their means.

I could have predicted this happening.

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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-08-2008, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin
Re bolded portion:

I think I know the answer. People who got in trouble without the bail out are not the type to have fixed all of their personal issues and poor planning just because they get bailed out. They continue to make poor decisions and spend beyond their means.

I could have predicted this happening.
I agree.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-08-2008, 04:25 PM
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Now the Governor of Illinois has said that the state will cease all business with BoA until it reopens the line of credit for Republic Doors & Windows.

Frankly I think they've got a point. The purpose of the bailout was to open up the credit markets and stop the credit crunch. It was MEANT to prevent this exact thing. I remember all the pundits and politicians stating that the $700billion bailout was needed so companies could get their daily loans that pay wages and buy materials and the basics of business.

Now, nothing has been said about Republics financial situation but if they are not falling apart and BoA cut their daily credit line, then I think those folks have a valid argument.

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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-08-2008, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
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Now the Governor of Illinois has said that the state will cease all business with BoA until it reopens the line of credit for Republic Doors & Windows.

Frankly I think they've got a point. The purpose of the bailout was to open up the credit markets and stop the credit crunch. It was MEANT to prevent this exact thing. I remember all the pundits and politicians stating that the $700billion bailout was needed so companies could get their daily loans that pay wages and buy materials and the basics of business.

Now, nothing has been said about Republics financial situation but if they are not falling apart and BoA cut their daily credit line, then I think those folks have a valid argument.
I agree with you to a certain degree. I somehow doubt the company is in good shape though.

I just object to the idea that BofA now somehow owes the workers anything directly.

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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-08-2008, 06:43 PM
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BoA owes them nothing the company they work for has the obligation not BoA like they have stated. Fuck Jesse Jacksons bullshit Obama didnt want him in the campaign and i know exactly why just listen to him talk! Lifes a bitch sometimes you have to pack up your shit and move on. If their contract says pay up till 60 days fine but BoA has no obligation to fund their brokeass company if they feel they are not financially stable enough to do so.

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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-08-2008, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AL P
I agree with you to a certain degree. I somehow doubt the company is in good shape though.

I just object to the idea that BofA now somehow owes the workers anything directly.
Yea, the condition of the company in question is the sticking point for me...

I just think that if my tax dollars are going towards bailing these mother fuckers out and is supposed to "free up" the credit markets, then that is what should be happening. Frankly, I think we've just wasted $700billion..

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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-08-2008, 08:02 PM
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Yea, the condition of the company in question is the sticking point for me...

I just think that if my tax dollars are going towards bailing these mother fuckers out and is supposed to "free up" the credit markets, then that is what should be happening. Frankly, I think we've just wasted $700billion..
so by "free up" the credit markets, you suggest lending money to companies that are failing? you're suggesting the exact same irresponsible lending that put us in this mess in the first.

this company has very little chance of paying money back, just like homeowners getting quarter million dollar houses on 40k/yr. throwing shit money after shit companies/ people doesnt "magically" fix anything.
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-08-2008, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sc281_99-0135
so by "free up" the credit markets, you suggest lending money to companies that are failing? you're suggesting the exact same irresponsible lending that put us in this mess in the first.

this company has very little chance of paying money back, just like homeowners getting quarter million dollar houses on 40k/yr. throwing shit money after shit companies/ people doesnt "magically" fix anything.

Well that's the thing I'm asking about. Was the company failing? I haven't seen anything that states WHY BoA cut them off. If the company is failing, then I absolutely have no problem with it. But no one has said anything about specifically about that. Did they declare bankruptcy? We're they in default on their loans? The only thing we've seen in any of these articles is that Republic was in "extreme financial hardship" Which is kinda vague. My question is if BoA's cutting them off has anything to do with that?

If the company was failing then fuck it. It isn't BoA's problem..

I guess I should have explained it better.

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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-08-2008, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt Beavis
Well that's the thing I'm asking about. Was the company failing? I haven't seen anything that states WHY BoA cut them off. If the company is failing, then I absolutely have no problem with it. But no one has said anything about specifically about that. Did they declare bankruptcy? We're they in default on their loans? The only thing we've seen in any of these articles is that Republic was in "extreme financial hardship" Which is kinda vague. My question is if BoA's cutting them off has anything to do with that?

If the company was failing then fuck it. It isn't BoA's problem..

I guess I should have explained it better.
I agree, if the company was solvent then boa cutting them off is criminal.

Not for sure if the company is/was solvent.

These fucking banks taking the bailout money and then going out and using it to buy other banks pisses me off
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-08-2008, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sc281_99-0135
so by "free up" the credit markets, you suggest lending money to companies that are failing? you're suggesting the exact same irresponsible lending that put us in this mess in the first.

this company has very little chance of paying money back, just like homeowners getting quarter million dollar houses on 40k/yr. throwing shit money after shit companies/ people doesnt "magically" fix anything.
i agree thats what got us here in the first place lending to those that cant pay back.

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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-09-2008, 07:41 AM
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I think the State of Illinois will go under before BOA will go under if the entire state is going to cut them off lmao.
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-09-2008, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt Beavis
Now the Governor of Illinois has said that the state will cease all business with BoA until it reopens the line of credit for Republic Doors & Windows.
BWAHAHAHAHA like that Gov has a fucking leg to stand on, the only way he lets them back in or says they will do business is if they pay him ...


Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich was taken into federal custody at his North Side home, The Chicago Tribune reported Tuesday, the next step in a three-year federal corruption investigation of "pay-to-play politics" in the governor's administration.

The Tribune said federal authorities were permitted by a judge to record the governor secretly before the November election after raising concerns that a replacement for President-elect Barack Obama would be tainted. That's the latest in an investigation that has included recordings of the governor and the cooperation of one of his closest friends.

The U.S. attorney's office would not confirm the information to FOX News.

A Blagojevich spokesman said he was unaware of the development.

"Haven't heard anything -- you are first to call," Lucio Guerrero said in an e-mail
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