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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-05-2008, 08:36 AM Thread Starter
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Freightrain/UAW in here

Can you please talk some sense into your UAW brothers? They are just as fucking delusional as yourself.

http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums...p?showforum=11

Some quotes

"I am so pissed off at my neighbors buying brand new foreign cars. it really pisses me off. i want to ask if your father/grandfather fought in ww1 or ww2 and if so are they rolling in there grave because you are driving a jap car???? i want to put a sign in my yard by there kitchen window that says ....
BUY AMERICAN! I hate them i don't even want to wave or say hi anymore because of this. Don't they understand!!!!"

"I had a kid come to my house trying to sell me learning books for kids. He was driving a Hundie. I said well guy if that was a Ford I would be writing you a check right now, but since you cant support me I just cant support you. I asked him if he heard of the trickle down effect, he said NO, I said it just happened to you how do you feel.
And I had a woman try selling me arial photos of my house, she was driving a Honduh, I told her the same thing she was PISSED. I said get off my property. "

"A few years back at Cleveland Engine Plant #2. Two men pulled up in a Toyota minivan into the hourly parking lot around lunch time.
The van had a blown tire and the two men proceeded to change it in the parking lot.

A few workers who where leaving for lunch walked up on them and said "get that Fuc*ing thing out of our parking lot".
the men explained that the tire will be changed and they will leave. they were then told "to get it out of the parking lot now or get your Fuc*ing heads bashed in" The other guy already had the police in -route from his cell phone. no longer then 2 minutes later the police arrived..

Turns out that the two men where on there way to a remembrance service for the Marines of the 3rd Battalion, 25th Regiment in Brookpark
one guy was a brother of a killed solider and the other was a best friend of a killed solider.

That moment changed me forever! I was one of the guys who made a threat!

"Hate" is a very strong word.. It's just a job!


You can sit there and "Hate" all thoes who don't buy the products you make..Just think about who will show up for you? when your time comes.

"

"will not accept a cut in pay or benefits, I say we get a group of union employees from each of the big 3 and demand that Congress meets us! We will exploit the unfair trade agreements that our government has negotiated and is now hurting all U.S. workers. Then we will hit them with the fact that the Germans and Japanese have national health care and the richest nation in the world, the U.S. dosnt. This is the facts that are not being discussed. If the big 3 could wipe away its health care obligations because our government provided national health care, they could then go to the large lending institutions and get the loans. Health care cost is one of the issues preventing the big 3 from getting loans. I would not ask the UAW or any of the international reps for their assistance. I am 110% union but these guys are incompetent to represent us, this is because they are not voted on by the membership but appointed by their friends in international.

After all united we stand divided we fall. This is about working Americans not the wealthy corporations that have assets oversea's that they can fall back on if everything in the U.S. goes bust. Just look at Delphi, they used all of the U.S. profits to open plants outside of the country. Then they went bankrupt and said that all of those plants were not part of the bankruptcy. If they had to include the plants outside of the U.S., Delphi would have had enough equity to honor its U.S. pension and health care obligations."

"I'm with you Big. I'm still pissed about opening the contract early to get the COA rammed up our ass.
Fuck-'em all. By the time they're finished with all these concessions, the jobs are not going to be worth having. If I get to vote my vote will absolutely be a NO to even slightest give back. Let the mutha-fuckers
go down. Those dumb-ass queers in D.C. keep dogging us. Most Americans seem to be against us.
I say we demand to get to vote on all of the proposed cuts. If we stick together with a NO vote, we will
spoil their devious plan. If the ship goes down, then we, along with millions of Americans are going down
too. UAW members are some of the most talented people on the earth. We will come through. And if it happens, I can't wait to see the fallout. The stupid mutha-fuckers working at the foreign based plants,
will watch their pay go down. Tax revenue will go down big time(look how bad it's cities, and state gov
right now), that's when we can laugh at all the one's doggin' us. Because by then everything is becoming
fucked-up. Lay off the police, lay off firefighters. The greedy bastards that have been fuckin' everybody
will now have to worry about being robbed, the way they have robbed us. Then we can say, that's the way
you stupid fucks wanted it. Now you have it. Sleep Tite. "
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-05-2008, 08:39 AM
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Makes me want to buy a new Tacoma!

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
Pericles "Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it. "

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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-05-2008, 08:47 AM
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lol funny stuff.
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-05-2008, 09:19 AM
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I was watching one of the news stations and they were saying the avg. hourly rate a line worker makes is 72.00/hr..wtf. I know they don't make that, so how are they coming to this amount?

Good ole media! Creating controversy.
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-05-2008, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Thumper
I was watching one of the news stations and they were saying the avg. hourly rate a line worker makes is 72.00/hr..wtf. I know they don't make that, so how are they coming to this amount?

Good ole media! Creating controversy.
That is with healthcare and pension costs included.
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-05-2008, 09:25 AM
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i'm gonna go buy another kia just to piss these guys off
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-05-2008, 09:31 AM
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It just breaks my heart to see these guys so close to allegedly losing their jobs.

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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-05-2008, 09:35 AM
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If the government and the UAW would ease up a little on the auto makers I am sure they could make a profit. America makes good cars and there is no reason that we should not be able to buy an American car and buy it at a good price. Gov. regulations adds on average around 4,000 to the price of a new car. I am sure that these line workers would much rather have a job earning less money than to have no job at all. But, then that would mean the UAW would have less money to give to the dems.

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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-05-2008, 09:44 AM
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True labor union story: Ever see that huge industrial complex at the southeast corner of 157 and S Pipeline right there on the border of Fort Worth and Euless? That used to be a landing gear manufacturing company. Colt Industries owned it, then BFGoodrich bought it.

The union was constantly on strike, tearing stuff up, demanding more-more-more. Goodrich finally got to the point that they weren't going to make a profit if the union kept up their nonsense. The union's response: Fuck you, pay us more!

Goodrich finally had enough, and told the union to pound sand. Goodrich closed the factory. They opened up in a foreign country where the tail doesn't wag the dog.

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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-05-2008, 09:50 AM
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67Camaro you are correct about government regulations, that is what happens when Congress passes legislation without consulting anyone and simply dictates what mpg or safety standards should be. They've legislated a lot of these companies into a losing position with their bullshit.

I also agree that the unions should ease up somewhat. The problem with the Unions has always been the blue collar heros who think they should make a six figure salary just because the company makes billions of dollars. A lot of these guys insist that their "skills" merit that sort of pay. I have told them, even while working right beside them that maybe they should go out and test the market if they are so confident in what their skills are worth. Most of the non skilled assembly line workers are worth about $15 an hour at most, skilled trades (pipefitters, millwrights, etc) is a bit different of course. The problem is that in order for these guys to get fucked the rest of the UAW, which has a lot of good people who work hard, also gets fucked. I'll be the first to say that the unions are full of overpaid arrogant fuckups but I'd hate to see all of the UAW workers lose their jobs in order for the fuckups to see their judgement day.

More on topic in this thread, I have never owned a foreign car and am hesitant to buy one. I don't believe in a fanatical stance like some of these idiots but I do think we should support American companies if possible. Sure a lot of foreign cars are built here and a lot of domestic cars are built elsewhere but I'd rather the profits go to Detroit than to Tokyo.
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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-05-2008, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AL P

I also agree that the unions should ease up somewhat. The problem with the Unions has always been the blue collar heros who think they should make a six figure salary just because the company makes billions of dollars. A lot of these guys insist that their "skills" merit that sort of pay. I have told them, even while working right beside them that maybe they should go out and test the market if they are so confident in what their skills are worth. Most of the non skilled assembly line workers are worth about $15 an hour at most, skilled trades (pipefitters, millwrights, etc) is a bit different of course. The problem is that in order for these guys to get fucked the rest of the UAW, which has a lot of good people who work hard, also gets fucked. I'll be the first to say that the unions are full of overpaid arrogant fuckups but I'd hate to see all of the UAW workers lose their jobs in order for the fuckups to see their judgement day.

More on topic in this thread, I have never owned a foreign car and am hesitant to buy one. I don't believe in a fanatical stance like some of these idiots but I do think we should support American companies if possible. Sure a lot of foreign cars are built here and a lot of domestic cars are built elsewhere but I'd rather the profits go to Detroit than to Tokyo.
Spot on.

Since when does your ability to place a seat (with robotic assistance) into a vehicle make you a "skilled worker" Al, i know too many GM workers that are useless, on a good day, yet will tell you how skilled they are, and why they deserve that kind of money. Seen it at the airport as well.. union workers sleeping the shift away... God help the Supervisor that would try to get anything done about that. There are several stories about the airport at Miami....

But i digress. Used to make me wonder, i'd drive by the GM Arlington plant & see numerous honda's, toyota's & the odd Mercedes. Never understood that thinking.

Can't say i've never owned a foreign car, had a couple of Datsuns, a Triumph, and.......a Fiat. But always ended up back in an American vehicle. Now with the Big 3 asking for money, i keep seeing that shitbag senator form alabama, trying with all his might to shoot down this whole bailout deal. Guess when you have a couple of big foreign manufacturers in your home state, i guess you can talk shit about Detroit. Course the factories there told folks...you start union talks, we'll close the plant. Unions had a place 50 years ago, but no more...

On a different level, i try to "Buy American" when it's possible, but it is becoming harder every day. Vise Grip (Irwin tool) becoming one of the latest to make the move to China...fuckers


Rant over, i'm going to find my beer

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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-05-2008, 10:43 AM
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The way I see it there is not much diff. between Unions and the Fed. Government. They both have the same dream get a lot of money and give it to who the think needs it while not earning the money they take from you. I agree unions are not need anymore. Now if they would have saved my job I might have a diff. outlook about them.

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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-05-2008, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by fitzwell
Spot on.

Since when does your ability to place a seat (with robotic assistance) into a vehicle make you a "skilled worker" Al, i know too many GM workers that are useless, on a good day, yet will tell you how skilled they are, and why they deserve that kind of money. Seen it at the airport as well.. union workers sleeping the shift away... God help the Supervisor that would try to get anything done about that. There are several stories about the airport at Miami....

But i digress. Used to make me wonder, i'd drive by the GM Arlington plant & see numerous honda's, toyota's & the odd Mercedes. Never understood that thinking.
When I worked the assembly line I replaced people who were out on vacation or sick. Often I stayed on a job for a few days before moving to the next. When I stopped working there I knew over 60 jobs on the line and could work every one of them proficiently. Very few of them were easy but all of them required the finesse that you only learn from doing a specific movement many many times. In that sense it takes "skill" much like martial arts takes skill because you have to move very precisely and balance yourself just right in order to do what you need to get done without expending a lot of extra effort. Not much of that transfers to other jobs on the assembly line much less to other lines of work. One thing I will say is that the job wears on your sanity because you are doing the same thing over and over. It also wears your body out if you do one job too long. We'd run 52 cars an hour when I was there, you end up doing the same thing 400 times a shift and your body starts to hurt.

I also used to wonder about the people who worked out there and drove foreign cars, to me that was a little nuts. My parents would tell me stories about those people getting their shit set on fire and things like that.
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-05-2008, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by 67camino
The way I see it there is not much diff. between Unions and the Fed. Government. They both have the same dream get a lot of money and give it to who the think needs it while not earning the money they take from you. I agree unions are not need anymore. Now if they would have saved my job I might have a diff. outlook about them.
Here is the thing with unions, they aren't really needed that much at the moment except in certain industries. It's like a pendulum, back near the turn of the 20th century they were very much needed, now it has swung more toward the other end of the spectrum. They'll lose power and 50 years from now I'll bet they are needed again. The state of equilibrium is hard to maintain because you have pricks who want to take advantage on both sides of the fence. The assholes at the top of the union really aren't all that much different than the assholes who run the company in my experience. That's just the way I see it, results may vary.
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-05-2008, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP135
Goodrich finally had enough, and told the union to pound sand. Goodrich closed the factory. They opened up in a foreign country where the tail doesn't wag the dog.
That made me smile.

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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-05-2008, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
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That made me smile.
The fact that they left America doesn't but giving the finger do the union does.
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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-05-2008, 11:45 AM
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There was a trucking company in carrollton called "churchhill". They had a depot right off of beltline. One day as I went past there was a bunch of people marching on strike. This went on for about 4 weeks, then the company went tits up. All of the employees lost their jobs, and the company's trucks and trailers were auctioned off. I had to laugh.

moral? the health of the employees is only as good as the health of the employer. When your employer is in deep shit, so are you.
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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-05-2008, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AL P
Here is the thing with unions, they aren't really needed that much at the moment except in certain industries. It's like a pendulum, back near the turn of the 20th century they were very much needed, now it has swung more toward the other end of the spectrum. They'll lose power and 50 years from now I'll bet they are needed again. The state of equilibrium is hard to maintain because you have pricks who want to take advantage on both sides of the fence. The assholes at the top of the union really aren't all that much different than the assholes who run the company in my experience. That's just the way I see it, results may vary.

AL P, you are spot on with this post.


People always claim that Unions are outdated and don't have a place in today's society and that is because the average American is to stupid to realize everything they take for granted. Do you honestly think Corporate America provides days off, vacations, sick days, Holidays, personal leave days, benefits, retirement and so on out of the goodness of their hearts? It was the unions that faught hard to get these benefits for all Americans and not just union members. The funny thing is the Non Union Americans want to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. Honestly people, how long do you think it would take for Corporate Greed to set in and start taking away all the benefits that Americans take for granted or think they are entitled to. If you think the Government will step in give me a brake because its Corporate America that donates hundreds of millions of dollars to the politicans in Washington and not Average Americans. Last time I checked there is no law requiring companies to give their employees Vacations or paid Holidays. As it is Americans are getting screwed on Vacation days. Out of the top 10 countries in the World ranked by the average amount of Vacation days their citizens receive the United States is dead last. The number one spot goes to Italy with 42 days and the number 9th spot goes to Japan with 25 days and Americans only get 13 days.


Nassty Nate,

To answer your question my Union and the UAW are like comparing apples to oranges and there are folks in every group of people that make the entire group look bad. The unions are just like Lawyers and Carsalesmen and to often they get stereotyped. The UAW members you have quoted are very extreme, but lets be honest. I've heard worst things come out of peoples mouths defending their favorite sports teams

If you asked 10 strangers on the street what they thought about union members most would say they are lazy, sleep on the job and over paid even though 90% of them probably have never met a union member. I don't know about you, but I don't know very many pilots that sleep on the job, or firemen that are lazy, or cops that are over paid. Everyone in my line of work earns their money. Trust me when I say that 80% of this board wouldn't do my job for the amount of money I get paid.

TRAIN TRASH it's like WHITE TRASH but with money.

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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-05-2008, 06:53 PM
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I keep seeing $130k a year being passed as factual for average compensation of a UAW assembly line worker. Counting benefits per year, not taking pension into account.

I just don't see how an assembly line worker is worth more compensation than the guys flying B-2 bombers or F-22s. I understand that it's tough to learn how to do some of the jobs but I'm thinking SERE training, 4 years of college and flight training is probably a little more complicated.

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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-05-2008, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by BP
I keep seeing $130k a year being passed as factual for average compensation of a UAW assembly line worker. Counting benefits per year, not taking pension into account.

I just don't see how an assembly line worker is worth more compensation than the guys flying B-2 bombers or F-22s. I understand that it's tough to learn how to do some of the jobs but I'm thinking SERE training, 4 years of college and flight training is probably a little more complicated.

That figure is blown way out of proportion and I'm sure it was done by some over zealous news station. A few senior employees of a plant might make that so they take that number and plaster the front page of the Monday paper with all UAW workers make 130k a year with pay and benefits. The same thing happens on the railroad. A few senior Railroaders that have worked on the railroad 35+ year might make 175k to 200k a year and the next thing you know everyone thinks if you work on the railroad you make that much. Truth of the matter is I know alot of folks on the railroad that make between 80k and 90k a year and I also know plenty that make under 60k a year.

TRAIN TRASH it's like WHITE TRASH but with money.

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post #21 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-05-2008, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BP
I keep seeing $130k a year being passed as factual for average compensation of a UAW assembly line worker. Counting benefits per year, not taking pension into account.

I just don't see how an assembly line worker is worth more compensation than the guys flying B-2 bombers or F-22s. I understand that it's tough to learn how to do some of the jobs but I'm thinking SERE training, 4 years of college and flight training is probably a little more complicated.
It is the GMs average labor cost when divided by current employees.

That number adds in all of GM's pension and health care liabilities for pas employees.

Line workers can make as little as $14 an hour (for contractors)
Union Line workers make something like $28 an hour..

Its not the current wages or even benefits for "current" employees that is kicking GM in the nuts. It is pension and healthcare for RETIRED employees that is beating their ass. Some of those guys have been retired since the 1970's....

However GM management bears the main part of the blame for that particular problem. They had the money to fully fund the pension and health care funds back in the late 1990s. If they had done that, they wouldn't be in the problem they are in today.

Add on to that the fact that GM never updated their factories to be more automated (I can see some UAW blame to share there) and never got into flexible manufacturing (can build cars or trucks in the same factory). Then rising gas prices and the credit crunch came in and snowballed everything.

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post #22 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-05-2008, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AL P
Here is the thing with unions, they aren't really needed that much at the moment except in certain industries. It's like a pendulum, back near the turn of the 20th century they were very much needed, now it has swung more toward the other end of the spectrum. They'll lose power and 50 years from now I'll bet they are needed again. The state of equilibrium is hard to maintain because you have pricks who want to take advantage on both sides of the fence. The assholes at the top of the union really aren't all that much different than the assholes who run the company in my experience. That's just the way I see it, results may vary.


i am United Aerospace Workers local 218, and you are right on. i am glad i am in the union because they take care of us, but i see alot of flaws in unions.

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post #23 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-05-2008, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt Beavis
Add on to that the fact that GM never updated their factories to be more automated (I can see some UAW blame to share there) and never got into flexible manufacturing (can build cars or trucks in the same factory). Then rising gas prices and the credit crunch came in and snowballed everything.
It's not just the assembly plant workers. Their entire supply chain is stupid compared to the Japanese. Take the Romeo engine plant for example. They build exactly the amount of engines they are under contract to every year whether Ford can actually sell them or not. If Ford decided to use Romeo engines only in the Mustang and it sold like crazy for 3 months they could possibly over run the years supply of engines and wouldn't be able to build any more GTs that year (I wonder if the Pony package V-6 car in 2005 was part of this). It happened in 1999 and 2000 with the Expeditions and a lot of them actually have Windsor engines with Romeo vin codes.

Then the next year you renegotiate the contract and get more engines and you can't sell them since gas prices go up. You still have 20k engines and all the sheetmetal to build the cars and you have to pay the workers anyways so you go ahead and build them and end up with $7k rebates to get them off the lots.

Toyota keeps about 4 hours worth of materials in stock. GM, Ford and Chrysler have to keep months worth. Toyota can adapt immediately and build the Yaris instead of Tundras. The big 3 have to decide if they want to build something they can't sell at a profit or at all since the labor and materials are already paid for.

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post #24 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-06-2008, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreightTrain
That figure is blown way out of proportion and I'm sure it was done by some over zealous news station. A few senior employees of a plant might make that so they take that number and plaster the front page of the Monday paper with all UAW workers make 130k a year with pay and benefits. The same thing happens on the railroad. A few senior Railroaders that have worked on the railroad 35+ year might make 175k to 200k a year and the next thing you know everyone thinks if you work on the railroad you make that much. Truth of the matter is I know alot of folks on the railroad that make between 80k and 90k a year and I also know plenty that make under 60k a year.
I have read many articles stating the average line worker is costing GM $34 per hour and just over $70 with benefits...thats $130k a year with benefits...

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