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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 02:43 PM Thread Starter
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Here are the liberals we know and love

If you don't win an election, just keep suing until you do....

http://www.time.com/time/politics/ar...te-cnn-partner

As Minnesota's senatorial recount is about to start, there is clearly no love lost between the staffs of Republican Senator Norm Coleman and his Democratic challenger Al Franken. Weekend press conferences by staffers and lawyers on both sides lobbed accusations against each other, declaring that it was their opponents who were undermining the integrity of Minnesota's election process, a reputation the state is particularly proud of. But what politician would do otherwise? Coleman led Franken by only 206 votes when the unofficial count ended last week. At stake is the size of the Democratic majority in the Senate, and its ability to defeat any Republican filibusters.

In the first of the dueling press conferences, Fritz Knaak, Coleman's head recount attorney, accused Franken's campaign of employing "Florida-like tactics" by seeking the names of voters' whose absentee ballots were rejected. Reporters then rushed to Franken's headquarters a few miles down the road to hear Franken spokesperson Andy Barr saying the Coleman campaign was, once again, resorting to "baseless charges and innuendo."

At issue was a lawsuit Franken filed on Thursday in Ramsey County District Court seeking to obtain the names of voters' whose absentee ballots were rejected. The Franken campaign hopes to submit the ballots to the State Canvassing Board for consideration; it sued after Ramsey County officials asserted the data was private. Coleman's attorney Knaak insisted that by doing so the Franken campaign is violating the privacy of voters. Barr, in turn, argued the Franken campaign simply wants to ensure every vote is counted. A judge is expected to issue a ruling on Monday. The Franken campaign believes these ballots, part of an unprecendently large number of absentee ballots inspired by the campaign of Barack Obama, may hold the margin of victory for their candidate.

The recount, which will cost taxpayers roughly $87,000, promises to be arduous. The State Canvassing Board will certify elections results Tuesday and the recount begins Wednesday, when election officials in 110 locations across the state will analyze by hand each of the nearly 3 million ballots to determine voter's intent. (Minnesota uses optical scanners, and many voters haphazardly filled in the intended ovals, didn't do so at all or otherwise improperly marked their ballots.) Thousands of party representatives will literally be peering over their shoulders to challenge any apparent discrepancy. By law, election officials must place any challenged ballots in a separate pile for consideration by the State Canvassing Board. Secretary of State Mark Ritchie chairs the five-member board, which also includes two Minnesota Supreme Court Justices and two Ramsey County District Court judges.

On Saturday, the Coleman campaign accused Ritchie, who, like Franken, belongs to the Democratic-Farmer-Labor coalition, of "breaching neutrality" by saying that the State Canvassing Board will probably consider taking up the tossed absentee ballots. Ritchie has vowed to hold regular press conferences during the recount. "The whole world is watching to see if we're living up to our reputation as Minnesota — our brand," Ritchie says. "Accuracy is the only measurement by which we can determine who won this election." Ritchie does not expect the recount to be completed until at least December 19. If the results are a tie, the contest could be decided by a coin toss.

Yet if the trend of the latest voting count continues as it has — Coleman initially led by 725 votes, but his lead has dwindled to just over 200 — Franken may be in the more favorable position. A recently completed Dartmouth study of the race argued that the roughly 34,000 residual votes — defined as undervotes, where a ballot has not been fully filled out, or overvotes, where more choices than are allowed were checked off — cast in the race could decide the election for Franken because those votes have historically been cast primarily by left-leaning voters. "With the voter who tends to pull the lever for Democrats, there's a little less dexterity," says Larry Jacobs, the director of the University of Minnesota's Center for the Study of Politics and Governance, who is familiar with the study.

But Jacobs says he does not expect a huge shift in recounting residual votes. "The bigger issue is how we handle these absentee ballots [which are the subject of the Franken lawsuit]," he says. Mark Jeranek, who voted for Franken, cast an absentee ballot in Beltrami County, located in northwestern Minnesota, that was rejected because he didn't sign the envelope in which he placed his ballot. The Franken campaign sent him an affidavit that he is considering signing. "I don't want to be a cause for revolution, but at the same time I want my vote to count," the 39 year-old environmental consultant says. "It's kind of neat — at least for a senatorial race — that it really does come down to every individual vote."

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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 03:06 PM
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Yeah, and every time they recount the votes franken comes out with more and more votes. Tampering?
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 03:10 PM
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You can't blame them, really. They put a lot of effort into the process and want to win.

But what worries me is if Franken wins the seat, the Democrats are that much closer to an unstoppable force. The Senate is designed to be the cerebral house, where legislation is stopped and debated - not rubber stamped for approval.
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 03:28 PM
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If the results are a tie, the contest could be decided by a coin toss.
YIKES

Voter's intent huh? Sounds like "I marked so-and-so, but meant to mark Franken". This is really getting fucking ridiculus.

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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 11:33 PM
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Didn't he do some skit making fun of Gore when he was whining about recounts?
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 11:47 PM
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Fuck Norm Coleman.
Edit: I realize I should qualify that statement. He co-sponsored S. 1959

Give me a dollar.
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 11:55 PM
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wow.

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Originally Posted by MR EDD View Post
it was not a problem to bring money to his house at 10pm.so why is it a problem to call and bitch.it wasnt a problem when we were all sitting around smoking pot together.yes i said it we all were smoking pot together.what now stupid.
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 46Tbird
...The Senate is designed to be the cerebral house, where legislation is stopped and debated - not rubber stamped for approval.
It hasn't been that way in a long while, bro.

Give me a dollar.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-18-2008, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by 46Tbird
You can't blame them, really. They put a lot of effort into the process and want to win.
I agree there are millions of dollars invested, and millions of voluntary man hours invested.

But then again, there's also "bowing out gracefully".


Franken worries me because he really was a brilliant comedian. But his brilliance has led to complete madness, a common trait in OCD.

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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-18-2008, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AL P
If you don't win an election, just keep suing until you do....

http://www.time.com/time/politics/ar...te-cnn-partner

A recently completed Dartmouth study of the race argued that the roughly 34,000 residual votes — defined as undervotes, where a ballot has not been fully filled out, or overvotes, where more choices than are allowed were checked off — cast in the race could decide the election for Franken because those votes have historically been cast primarily by left-leaning voters. "With the voter who tends to pull the lever for Democrats, there's a little less dexterity," says Larry Jacobs, the director of the University of Minnesota's Center for the Study of Politics and Governance, who is familiar with the study.

"
Are you fucking kidding me? If they don't know how to vote or lack the "dexterity" to do so - then fuck 'em. It CAN'T be that hard to do.
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-18-2008, 07:59 AM
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The world is watching and thinking...
"What a bunch of Jass Ack Clowns."
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-18-2008, 09:32 AM
 
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Yet no one thinks that it's odd that Norm Coleman keeps saying "stop the recount, Al!", yet... the recount is automatic when it's that close.

I'm more inclined to believe that there's tampering going on from Coleman's side, because of his yelling to halt a recount that's state ordered, than the fact that the recount is showing that Franken is edging up. Norm's protesting awfully loud.
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-18-2008, 09:48 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gpamp
Yet no one thinks that it's odd that Norm Coleman keeps saying "stop the recount, Al!", yet... the recount is automatic when it's that close.

I'm more inclined to believe that there's tampering going on from Coleman's side, because of his yelling to halt a recount that's state ordered, than the fact that the recount is showing that Franken is edging up. Norm's protesting awfully loud.
I know, Coleman has a lot of nerve insisting that the rules of the election, established long before the contest began, be followed as intended. We should let lawsuits and bullshit attempts to change the rules after the fact decide the outcome. Maybe it can go all the way to the Supreme Court so they can break the news to Al Franken that he lost. Much like they had to do with that lunatic Al Gore.

"I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have." - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." - Ed Howdershelt
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-18-2008, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpamp
Yet no one thinks that it's odd that Norm Coleman keeps saying "stop the recount, Al!", yet... the recount is automatic when it's that close.

I'm more inclined to believe that there's tampering going on from Coleman's side, because of his yelling to halt a recount that's state ordered, than the fact that the recount is showing that Franken is edging up. Norm's protesting awfully loud.
The longer we recount, the greater the probablity Frankensteen will win. How does that work?
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-18-2008, 10:09 AM
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Coleman and Franken should get in the boxing ring and settle the matter like men.
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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-18-2008, 10:23 AM
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Coleman and Franken should get in the boxing ring and settle the matter like men.
How about a reality TV show, POP CULTURE Rules, Baby!
Or your route, Fight Cage.
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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-18-2008, 02:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AL P
I know, Coleman has a lot of nerve insisting that the rules of the election, established long before the contest began, be followed as intended. We should let lawsuits and bullshit attempts to change the rules after the fact decide the outcome. Maybe it can go all the way to the Supreme Court so they can break the news to Al Franken that he lost. Much like they had to do with that lunatic Al Gore.
Rules? The recount happens automatically, when it's as close as it was. It's a formality. Coleman wanting it stopped denotes fear, more than anything. If it were the other way, 400 votes for Franken, do you think Coleman would halt the AUTOMATIC recount? I seriously doubt it.

And as for Franken gaining votes, the reason he got the 100 pt. jump was stated, already. Someone forgot a "1", when tallying the one hundred something votes of one region. The "votes in the trunk of a car" was already debunked by the Republican Governor of Minn.

Another reason he's gaining votes could be because of small errors. When it's this close, the tiny miscounts can't really hide as easy. If it's a landslide, its doubtful that 100 votes would change anything, so it's not recounted. It's not far off to believe that Franken could've gotten more votes. After all, it was a Democratic year. And a lot of people, who usually don't vote, could've voted straight ticket, because it's easier.
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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-18-2008, 05:05 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpamp
Rules? The recount happens automatically, when it's as close as it was. It's a formality. Coleman wanting it stopped denotes fear, more than anything. If it were the other way, 400 votes for Franken, do you think Coleman would halt the AUTOMATIC recount? I seriously doubt it.

And as for Franken gaining votes, the reason he got the 100 pt. jump was stated, already. Someone forgot a "1", when tallying the one hundred something votes of one region. The "votes in the trunk of a car" was already debunked by the Republican Governor of Minn.

Another reason he's gaining votes could be because of small errors. When it's this close, the tiny miscounts can't really hide as easy. If it's a landslide, its doubtful that 100 votes would change anything, so it's not recounted. It's not far off to believe that Franken could've gotten more votes. After all, it was a Democratic year. And a lot of people, who usually don't vote, could've voted straight ticket, because it's easier.
Wow, thanks for explaining the recount process. I'm sure it is mind boggling to you.

Rules are things like "If you don't send in your absentee ballot correctly it doesn't count". That's what I was talking about. Not that something like that would stop the Democrats from suing until they get to the Supreme Court and losing the case again.

Good luck Al Franken, you cocksucker!
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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-19-2008, 10:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by AL P
Wow, thanks for explaining the recount process. I'm sure it is mind boggling to you.

Rules are things like "If you don't send in your absentee ballot correctly it doesn't count". That's what I was talking about. Not that something like that would stop the Democrats from suing until they get to the Supreme Court and losing the case again.

Good luck Al Franken, you cocksucker!
Ok, good point. But don't you think Coleman's jumping-up-and-down-yelling-"please stop the recount!!" atitude is kinda suspect? If it were turned around, don't you think he'd be recounting?
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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-19-2008, 10:38 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gpamp
Ok, good point. But don't you think Coleman's jumping-up-and-down-yelling-"please stop the recount!!" atitude is kinda suspect? If it were turned around, don't you think he'd be recounting?
Sure he would do everything Franken is doing, these guys are politicians. And I'd say he is a jack ass for it too. I'm just saying that the election process should be held sacred. The rules are the rules and you don't start suing to bend them when you lose. You take your licks and go on with your business.

I can see the recount, that is part of the procedure. But suing to get a list of absentee voters that couldn't manage to follow instructions and then trying to get their votes counted? That's ridiculous and it undermines the election process in this country because it says if you file enough legal paperwork you can change the rules after the fact.
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post #21 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-19-2008, 03:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AL P
Sure he would do everything Franken is doing, these guys are politicians. And I'd say he is a jack ass for it too. I'm just saying that the election process should be held sacred. The rules are the rules and you don't start suing to bend them when you lose. You take your licks and go on with your business.

I can see the recount, that is part of the procedure. But suing to get a list of absentee voters that couldn't manage to follow instructions and then trying to get their votes counted? That's ridiculous and it undermines the election process in this country because it says if you file enough legal paperwork you can change the rules after the fact.
I think they just want to know why the ballots weren't counted. In case some weren't counted for ridiculous reasons.

I hope there's no actual lawsuits after the recount.
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post #22 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-19-2008, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by stinginstang
Are you fucking kidding me? If they don't know how to vote or lack the "dexterity" to do so - then fuck 'em. It CAN'T be that hard to do.

I agree. If you are too fucking stupid to fill out the ballot correctly, then you are too fucking stupid to decide who is elected.

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