The next bailout... The Dallas Cowboys? - DFWstangs Forums
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post #1 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-15-2008, 07:20 AM Thread Starter
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The next bailout... The Dallas Cowboys?

I'm listening to the radio this morning and Jeff Bolton teases about his show for Monday. He asked if we should be bailing out the Dallas Cowboys. WTF?

So off to Google I go and guess what, he might be right......

I knew the Cowboy's stadium was over budget, but $1.2BILLION OVER BUDGET? WTF Jerry.

Arlington taxpayers are not on the hook for the cost overruns. The Cowboys are. This is a moot point IF the Cowboys secure the financing. But if they don't, how would you feel about a bailout of the Dallas Cowboys.

BTW, I don't think it will happen. I think Bolton is possibly being a bit of a sensationalist. The sales of Personal Seat Licenses are expected to net $735Million. The SuperBowl will net a ton of cash too.


http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/st...0/daily47.html
Quote:

The Dallas Cowboys are seeking to borrow $350 million by Dec. 1, according to numerous finance sources, in one of the worst credit environments in the nationís history.

The clubís proposed deal would refinance $126 million the team borrowed last year through the now-imploded auction-rate securities market, as well as add new debt to cover cost overruns at the teamís $1.2 billion stadium that is set to open next year, sources told Street & Smithís SportsBusiness Journal, a sister publication.

ďEveryone is looking at the Cowboysí deal. It is a huge bellwether,Ē said one finance source. ďThis is one of the only deals, period, in the market (sports or otherwise).Ē

Sports debt deals have been nearly nonexistent since the credit markets seized up in September. The Cowboys and New York Yankees borrowed $100 million jointly to fund their concessions startup Legends Hospitality, but no other deals are thought to have closed during this time.

Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and the teamís lead lender, Bank of America, hosted more than a dozen banks at the suite sales center adjacent to the stadium under construction in Arlington on Oct. 27, offering a deal priced 2.5 percentage points more than the London Interbank Offered Rate, a floating-rate index, sources said.

That rate recently stood at 2.39 percent, translating for the deal into a rate of just under 5 percent, which is low in this market. However, LIBOR has been wildly fluctuating, falling from 4.82 percent on Oct. 10.

The Cowboys and Bank of America want the other banks to buy pieces of the loan, a process called syndication. The Cowboys and Bank of America declined to comment.

The Cowboys are relying on a few factors to get the deal done. One is the allure of the Cowboys brand. Second, the team has pledged in the proposed deal nearly all revenue lines from the new stadium, sources said. Thatís a feature that was common in stadium financing six years ago but disappeared during the go-go years of easy credit, when pledged revenues were lighter.

A third factor is the growth of the Dallas market. During the bank meeting, according to a banking source, Jones pitched Dallas as being second only to Chicago in terms of market size among NFL cities with just one team. He referred to the Dallas Metroplex, which includes a population base of more than 6.1 million.

For the Cowboys, getting out from underneath the auction-rate debt is a pressing concern. They are one of four NFL teams to have borrowed from the auction-rate securities market, which allowed companies to borrow cheaply and continue to reset the interest rate with auctions of the debt weekly and monthly.

In February, the ARS market seized up, and debt auctions failed, which automatically triggered significant interest rate hikes.

The New England Patriots were faced with paying $15 million to $44 million more per year because of the increase, the team alleged in a lawsuit filed in July against bond insurer Ambac. The Patriots in May refinanced their ARS notes.

The New York Giants largely had been shielded because of an interest rate swap it bought from Lehman Brothers, but itís uncertain what that firmís demise means to the teamís finances. Sources said the team, through Goldman Sachs, is studying refinancing its $650 million of stadium debt purchased through the ARS market. John Mara, the Giants co-owner, did not return calls for comment.

The New York Jets, who also did not return calls, had ARS exposure, as well, though itís unclear if the club still does.

The Cowboys estimated the stadium would cost $650 million when they announced the project in 2004. With $350 million of public funding and $76 million from the NFL, it looked like a choice deal for the team.

The club arranged to borrow at least $450 million through Banc of America Securities for its portion, with the first $126 million through the ARS market. But Jones agreed to cover cost overruns as part of the teamís share, and like many stadiums in this period, the price has spiraled.

The team has not yet secured a naming-rights deal for the stadium, which would bring in additional revenue. The club also could raise as much as $735 million from the sale of personal seat licenses, according to a Fort Worth Star-Telegram report. There are 55,000, 30-year PSLs available at prices ranging from $2,000 to $150,000.

The stadium will seat 80,000 but will be able to expand to 100,000 for special events like the Super Bowl, which Dallas is scheduled to host in 2011.

Daniel Kaplan is a staff writer for Street & Smithís SportsBusiness Journal, a sister publication of the Dallas Business Journal. He can be reached at [email protected]

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post #2 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-15-2008, 07:35 AM
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I would like to see the Arlington taxpayers put on the hook for the cost overruns. After all, they should accept the bad with the good.
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post #3 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-15-2008, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
I would like to see the Arlington taxpayers put on the hook for the cost overruns. After all, they should accept the bad with the good.
I agree. It's a risk they took when they got the stadium. Maybe something like this will stop municipalities from being so eager to jump on a huge project next time an owner raises his skirt at them...

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post #4 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-15-2008, 07:54 AM
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Bailout? Absolutely not!!! Fuck Jerry Jones and his horse too. Us Arlington residents have done what we said we'd do. He can drop his damned ticket prices to reality levels and quit counting on his EXXON buddies if he wants to float that boat. My company has had season tickets for 15 years and assumed we would move em over to the new stadium. Similar seats would increase our cost X 10. Not gonna happen.

It would also help if Jerry would get over this fantasy that he's a coach. And get an offensive line...

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post #5 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-15-2008, 08:10 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Vertnut
I agree. It's a risk they took when they got the stadium. Maybe something like this will stop municipalities from being so eager to jump on a huge project next time an owner raises his skirt at them...

No, they did not. The contract with Arlington specifically states that all cost overruns will be the responsibility of the Cowboys. Jerry admitted last year that he was letting the stadium go over budget for upgrades like the largest TV in the world.

Note: It was Jeff Bolton's teaser that said mentioned a bailout. I did a search of and found only bloggers or columnist that were speculating about it. One columnist was with a Philly newspaper.

Apparently the real problem is that Jerry financed the cost overruns with Auction Rate Securities. The meltdown of those securities has greatly increased the interest rate on that debt. That interest rate increase is the think kicking them in the nutz. If Jerry secures new financing, then this is finished.

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post #6 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-15-2008, 08:14 AM
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Jerry will secure new financing and it will all blow over. But if he doesn't then he needs to come up with the extra money. If hes gonna fuck joe average with unaffordable ticket prices then he can cover it.
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post #7 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-15-2008, 08:36 AM
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I really don't understand why a sporting arena should be funded by the public for a private company. Either you want corporate welfare or you do not.
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post #8 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-15-2008, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by TexasDevilDog
I really don't understand why a sporting arena should be funded by the public for a private company. Either you want corporate welfare or you do not.
what i also don't get if the arlington people are paying for then shouldn't they get a discount or even a free game ticket, why should they have put even more money into something they help build?
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post #9 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-15-2008, 09:16 AM
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what i also don't get if the arlington people are paying for then shouldn't they get a discount or even a free game ticket, why should they have put even more money into something they help build?
That's a good point. They should get a ticket on opening day.





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post #10 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-15-2008, 09:39 AM
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Sorry, the contracts says Jerry covers all cost overruns.

And good luck getting a loan at 250 points above LIBOR from a bank right now. That's pretty funny.
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post #11 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-15-2008, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Cartman
what i also don't get if the arlington people are paying for then shouldn't they get a discount or even a free game ticket, why should they have put even more money into something they help build?
Because they were dumb enough to help Jones in the first place. I think it's great
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post #12 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-15-2008, 02:12 PM
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I voted against the fuckin' thing.
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post #13 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-15-2008, 02:26 PM
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I hear the www.hrc.org is behind the cowboys bailout 100%.....
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post #14 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-15-2008, 02:47 PM
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Where'd you get 1.2B over budget ???? The whole project is supposed to total $1.2B, the initial estimate had it at 650M back in '04. The prices of commodities being what they've been in the last 1-2 yrs I'm surprised it's not even more over budget.

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post #15 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-15-2008, 03:26 PM
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I dont know about now, but the planning from all the work they sub contracted was poorly managed. A guy would come put lights up in a sweet. Then the next day there would be a wall put up and the lighting will be all fucked up, and had to be redone.

Poor planning.

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post #16 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-16-2008, 05:43 PM
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I dont know about now, but the planning from all the work they sub contracted was poorly managed. A guy would come put lights up in a sweet. Then the next day there would be a wall put up and the lighting will be all fucked up, and had to be redone.

Poor planning.

Why were they putting lights in sweet shit?
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post #17 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-16-2008, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
I would like to see the Arlington taxpayers put on the hook for the cost overruns. After all, they should accept the bad with the good.
fuck that, if you can't get a project done for the amount you quoted you can go fuck yourself. If I contracted someone to build something for me, and they were over budget like a goddamn maniac there is no way in hell I would pay them another cent, you pay for that shit yourself and forgo your profits so you learn your damn lesson next time.
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post #18 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-16-2008, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Vertnut
I agree. It's a risk they took when they got the stadium. Maybe something like this will stop municipalities from being so eager to jump on a huge project next time an owner raises his skirt at them...
Yeah, because the residents of Arlington are going to get so much out of this stadium...

What a bunch of bull.

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post #19 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 05:26 AM
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Jerry has that amount in a shoe box under his bed, he's just not wanting to touch his pot of gold. Arlington taxpayers have done enough, they shouldn't have to pay for additional, especially considering there were many residents that weren't in favor of the idea from the first place.

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post #20 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by mr majestyk
I would like to see the Arlington taxpayers put on the hook for the cost overruns. After all, they should accept the bad with the good.
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Originally Posted by 5.0_CJ
fuck that, if you can't get a project done for the amount you quoted you can go fuck yourself. If I contracted someone to build something for me, and they were over budget like a goddamn maniac there is no way in hell I would pay them another cent, you pay for that shit yourself and forgo your profits so you learn your damn lesson next time.
The Arlington taxpayers knew, or should have known, what a douchebag Jones is before they got into bed with him. I find the whole mess amusing, especially the shitty neighborhood the new stadium is being built in. That's going to make the proud city of Arlington really look low rent come Super Bowl XLV in 2011.

We have never patronized any business in Arlington or attended any Ranger games since the stadium deal with Jones was announced. Those fine folks can scrounge their money elsewhere.
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post #21 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 06:43 AM
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I heard he was only $320 million over budget.


I cant believe I just said that.
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post #22 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 06:56 AM
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I don't care who the FOOTBALL or other sports team is, citizens should never have to bail them out.

Of course, us poor citizens should not have to bail out rich corporate executives either.

Or low-middle class people who sign ARMs to have something they know they can't afford in the long run.

Or poor people too lazy to work.

Or welfare fucks in general who've been on it for more than 6 months.

Fucks.

wow.

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post #23 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 08:47 AM
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I find the whole mess amusing, especially the shitty neighborhood the new stadium is being built in. That's going to make the proud city of Arlington really look low rent come Super Bowl XLV in 2011.
Ex-shitty neighborhood.

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post #24 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 09:16 AM
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The area along Collins south of Randol Mill still is a shitty neighborhood, especially the closer one gets to Division.
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post #25 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 10:28 AM
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especially considering there were many residents that weren't in favor of the idea from the first place.

It went to a vote. Majority won. Get over it.
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post #26 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 10:34 AM
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It went to a vote. Majority won. Get over it.
Do you feel that way about Obama too?

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post #27 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 10:55 AM
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Do you feel that way about Obama too?


Pretty much. I didn't vote for Obama. I didn't want him to win. But you won't find me in all those threads with everyone else saying the sky is falling, either.
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post #28 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 11:01 AM
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Pretty much. I didn't vote for Obama. I didn't want him to win. But you won't find me in all those threads with everyone else saying the sky is falling, either.
Well as long as you're consistent. I think you are just glad because you are getting rid of the Cowboys and sticking them on us.

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post #29 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 11:04 AM
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Well as long as you're consistent. I think you are just glad because you are getting rid of the Cowboys and sticking them on us.


I'm just sitting back laughing, waiting for my property value to go up when they tear that shit hole down.


I'm a season ticket holder, and will continue to be at the new stadium. Sucks that it's not a 4 minute drive to the stadium anymore, but I'll gladly take it with a higher property value.
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post #30 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by bjtheman1
Jerry has that amount in a shoe box under his bed, he's just not wanting to touch his pot of gold. Arlington taxpayers have done enough, they shouldn't have to pay for additional, especially considering there were many residents that weren't in favor of the idea from the first place.
Exactly. It's a moot point anyway, if you read the agreement it is worded very specifically in that Jones covers any of the cost overruns. I'm not sure why the city would even open the idea up for discussion.

And yes, considering the ass fucking that the citizens of Arlington have taken on the deal since day one they certainly have "done enough". In fact I would say that they were stabbed in the back by the city leaders, the whole deal is terrible for the city.
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post #31 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 11:09 AM
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And yes, considering the ass fucking that the citizens of Arlington have taken on the deal since day one they certainly have "done enough". In fact I would say that they were stabbed in the back by the city leaders, the whole deal is terrible for the city.

I'm not disagreeing with you. The city definitely should NOT cover any of the overages.


However, you say the "whole deal is terrible for the city." Just curious if you are talking purely financially, or what? Elaborate some more when you get some time.
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post #32 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 11:12 AM
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fuck that, if you can't get a project done for the amount you quoted you can go fuck yourself.


Just now catching this...

Prices go up. You are aware of this, right? We battle this shit all the time. We bid on projects that are two years out from starting construction. Our prices go up twice a year, due to materials going up twice a year. People expect us to just cover the increases. Sorry, dumbfuck. If you had read your quote we gave you a percentage to add per year to cover future price increases. Not my fault you can't read. Of course, this opens it up to competitors, but they generally see things the same way.
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post #33 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 11:30 AM
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I'm not disagreeing with you. The city definitely should NOT cover any of the overages.


However, you say the "whole deal is terrible for the city." Just curious if you are talking purely financially, or what? Elaborate some more when you get some time.
Terms of the deal are awful for the city. They have outlay of $375 million to help build the thing. They share in none of the revenue, they only get a rent payment every year and will get a maximum of $75 million in rent over the first 30 years. After the thirty years is up, Jerry can "buy" the stadium for nothing if he wants it or continue to rent it for some insanely low rate.

Essentially the city sold the idea of some massive tax base increase or a big jobs increase to the masses and they bought off on it. Real Estate developers do this crap all the time and it is a well known fact inside the industry that its all a bunch of bullshit.

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post #34 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 11:33 AM
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Terms of the deal are awful for the city. They have outlay of $375 million to help build the thing. They share in none of the revenue, they only get a rent payment every year and will get a maximum of $75 million in rent over the first 30 years. After the thirty years is up, Jerry can "buy" the stadium for nothing if he wants it or continue to rent it for some insanely low rate.

Essentially the city sold the idea of some massive tax base increase or a big jobs increase to the masses and they bought off on it. Real Estate developers do this crap all the time and it is a well known fact inside the industry that its all a bunch of bullshit.


Gotcha. I had no idea the terms of the deal were so one sided. Of course, one should have known, Jerry signed off on it after all.
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post #35 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 11:40 AM
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Maybe Jones will spend as much spiffing up the surroundings as Tom Hicks did after "The Ballpark" was built.
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post #36 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 11:45 AM
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Gotcha. I had no idea the terms of the deal were so one sided. Of course, one should have known, Jerry signed off on it after all.
Essentially the city has a net outlay of $300 million now for a tax base increase over 30 years, the intial life of the deal. Is the tax base increase worth $10 million a year (if we exclude costs of debt to get the $375 million) when you consider the Cowboys play ten home games a year? No way in hell.
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post #37 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 02:40 PM
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Just now catching this...

Prices go up. You are aware of this, right? We battle this shit all the time. We bid on projects that are two years out from starting construction. Our prices go up twice a year, due to materials going up twice a year. People expect us to just cover the increases. Sorry, dumbfuck. If you had read your quote we gave you a percentage to add per year to cover future price increases. Not my fault you can't read. Of course, this opens it up to competitors, but they generally see things the same way.
dumbfuck? you better correct that inferiority complex, I don't give a shit what your excuse is, you purchase the materials and get that shit immediately when you get the project, you fucking deal with your own shortcomings if you can't fail to complete a project on budget. Remind me to never employ your services since you clearly can't understand what a budget is, or how to work within it - you don't sound like much of a salesman to me. 350 million over, yeah, continue to defend that ridiculous shit. There is nothing that I hate more than someone who fails to meet their end of the deal and then forms excuses. Or even more concerned, someone who isn't even involved decides to personally attack a complete stranger on the internet to make their dick grow bigger.

The hilarious part is, you attempt to tell me that 350 million was covered in the contract... a 30% increase in build cost in 2 years? With lumber at a 10 year low, and gas prices dropping like a brick.... you're fucking completely wrong as shit and you know it. If you walked into my office and told me the work I contracted you to do was going to cost 30% more than you quoted me, I would walk your stupid ass directly out of the building and file a grievance with the BBB.

Last edited by CJ; 11-17-2008 at 02:56 PM.
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post #38 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 02:53 PM
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I don't know if it's been said yet in all the replies: Jerry told Norm on Friday on the Ticket that all this information (the story above) is false.

Of course, you have to take that with a grain of salt.

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post #39 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 5.0_CJ
dumbfuck? you better correct that inferiority complex, I don't give a shit what your excuse is, you purchase the materials and get that shit immediately when you get the project, you fucking deal with your own shortcomings if you can't fail to complete a project on budget. Remind me to never employ your services since you clearly can't understand what a budget is, or how to work within it - you don't sound like much of a salesman to me. 350 million over, yeah, continue to defend that ridiculous shit. There is nothing that I made more than someone who fails to meet their end of the deal and then forms excuses. Or even more concerned, someone who isn't even involved decides to personally attack a complete stranger on the internet to make their dick grow bigger.

The hilarious part is, you attempt to tell me that 350 million was covered in the contract... a 30% increase in build cost in 2 years?.... you're fucking completely ridiculously wrong as shit and you know it. If you walked into my office and told me the work I contracted you to do was going to cost 30% more than you quoted me, I would walk your stupid ass directly out of the building and file a grievance with the BBB.
He's actually pretty well correct. When we recieve a quote it is only good for 30-90 days due to material increases. You also can't expect someone to purchase materials two years out and sit on them for that long unless you are covering at least a portion of their storage and paying them for the materials up front.

Also I think it has been stated that the original post of 1.2B over was a typo and it's more like 300mm or some shit. Which that amount on a 1.2B job is understandable. It seems like more and more nothing gets built under budget or even on budget. There is always a wrench in it somewhere.
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post #40 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimpala
He's actually pretty well correct. When we recieve a quote it is only good for 30-90 days due to material increases. You also can't expect someone to purchase materials two years out and sit on them for that long unless you are covering at least a portion of their storage and paying them for the materials up front.

Also I think it has been stated that the original post of 1.2B over was a typo and it's more like 300mm or some shit. Which that amount on a 1.2B job is understandable. It seems like more and more nothing gets built under budget or even on budget. There is always a wrench in it somewhere.
It's 350 million, or 30% higher than quoted, and I just don't buy that shit. I don't understand the intricacies of projects on this scale, but every job I've contracted the materials were purchasing immediately before construction began to prevent cost overruns.
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post #41 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 5.0_CJ
dumbfuck?

First, you need to get your panties out of a bunch. I didn't call you a dumbfuck, now, did I? I was referring to people I deal with on a daily basis. I'm in sales. I'm not a subcontractor. The people I sell to are subcontractors. They don't read the quotes we send for our equipment, and when they land a contract two years after a job bid, they expect me to honor it at the same price. The verbage is on every single quote I send, yet it is always a surprise when I tell them I'm not honoring a two year old price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.0_CJ
you better correct that inferiority complex,
First - I don't have one. Second, or what? LMAO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.0_CJ
I don't give a shit what your excuse is, you purchase the materials and get that shit immediately when you get the project, you fucking deal with your own shortcomings if you can't fail to complete a project on budget.
That's the G.C's problem. Not mine. I have every leg to stand on, when my quotes have the disclaimer. Don't like it? Take me to court, and I'll bet my career that you don't win.


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Originally Posted by 5.0_CJ
Remind me to never employ your services since you clearly can't understand what a budget is, or how to work within it - you don't sound like much of a salesman to me.
LOL! Temper temper! Did I strike a nerve, when I wasn't even aiming that "dumbfuck" comment at you directly? I'm flattered. Quite frankly, you don't know shit from shinola. I'm a great salesman. I've had double digit growth on every account I call on since taking over those accounts. Nah, I'm not much of a salesman though. I mean, I bet I'll get fired tomorrow now that you outed me.


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Originally Posted by 5.0_CJ
350 million over, yeah, continue to defend that ridiculous shit.
When dealing with a job the size of that Stadium, $350 MM really isn't too far fetched for a budget overage. Again, materials increase.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.0_CJ
There is nothing that I hate more than someone who fails to meet their end of the deal and then forms excuses.
Sounds like you've had an experience in the past that pissed you off, and that's why you're trying to prove how much of a man you are. Let me make this simple. Again, I wasn't calling you a dumbfuck. Yes, I quoted you. Yes, I typed 'dumbfuck' I wasn't calling YOU a dumbfuck. Even if I did, I don't care that much.

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Originally Posted by 5.0_CJ
Or even more concerned, someone who isn't even involved decides to personally attack a complete stranger on the internet to make their dick grow bigger.
LOL! You should be feeling dumber by now.

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Originally Posted by 5.0_CJ
The hilarious part is, you attempt to tell me that 350 million was covered in the contract...
I haven't read the contract. I don't know what was covered and what wasn't. But any responsible G.C, knows to include an umbrella percentage, to cover changes and situations that pop up in construction. Nothing ever goes 100% per plan, when building. Shit happens. It's not really anyone's fault, shit just happens. Yes, I'm aware that statement pales in comparison to $350 MM, but just look at the total cost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.0_CJ
a 30% increase in build cost in 2 years?
Not far fetched at all. The lines I represent, go up twice a year due to raw material costs, at an average of 10% per increase. Granted, I'm talking about s/s, copper, etc. Not wood.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.0_CJ
With lumber at a 10 year low, and gas prices dropping like a brick....
Yeah. Because they built that stadium out of wood and gasoline....



Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.0_CJ
you're fucking completely wrong as shit and you know it.

Actually, I'm not wrong at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.0_CJ
If you walked into my office and told me the work I contracted you to do was going to cost 30% more than you quoted me, I would walk your stupid ass directly out of the building and file a grievance with the BBB.


LOL. That's all.


Do you think these people just submitted a bid, were awarded the contract the next day, and just immediately started ordering and building? Time passes. In my industry, a lot of the time, contracts aren't awarded for 12 months or more AFTER the bid was submitted. And even when the contract is awarded, the subcontractors don't just immediately cut orders. They hold off for as long as they can, so they don't have to pay storage, etc. Not to mention, the equipment ordered is, is ordered on the subcontractor's credit line. They don't want to be out all that money/credit, and it still be 12+ months before they get paid by the Owner.
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post #42 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Grimpala
He's actually pretty well correct. When we recieve a quote it is only good for 30-90 days due to material increases. You also can't expect someone to purchase materials two years out and sit on them for that long unless you are covering at least a portion of their storage and paying them for the materials up front.

Not to mention, how doing so, fucks over the Owner as well as the Manufacturer. Let's say someone buys something from me, and it sits in a warehouse for 13 months, and they go to install it, and it doesn't work. Guess what? You only paid for a 12 month warranty. It sat in a warehouse for 13 months. Guess who is paying for that repair bill?
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post #43 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 03:25 PM
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Sorry, dumbfuck. If you had read your quote we gave you a percentage to add per year to cover future price increases. Not my fault you can't read. Of course, this opens it up to competitors, but they generally see things the same way.

Don't even attempt to weasel out of that blatantly direct comment, you quote me, and you directed this at me, clear as day - and frankly it's insulting as hell for you to try to absolve yourself from that comment. What you've stated is you have never read the contract which you cited as evidence of me being incorrect, and then attempted to infer lumber and fuel costs don't affect prices. You evidence is your experience as a salesman, mine comes from contracting and paying for construction projects.
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post #44 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by 5.0_CJ
Don't even attempt to weasel out of that blatantly direct comment, you quote me, and you directed this at me, clear as day - and frankly it's insulting as hell for you to try to absolve yourself from that comment. What you've stated is you have never read the contract which you cited as evidence of me being incorrect, and then attempted to infer lumber and fuel costs don't affect prices.

Jesus Christ. I didn't call you a dumbfuck then, I WAS TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE THAT I DEAL WITH IN MY LINE OF WORK.


But if it makes you feel better, you are a dumbfuck. Why? Because you just don't get it. So, now that's out of the way... What the fuck are you going to do about it, Nancy?
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post #45 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 03:33 PM
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You evidence is your experience as a salesman, mine comes from contracting and paying for construction projects.


No wonder you got your panties in a bunch. You're the idiot that gets his ass in a sling because you can't fucking read. CLASSIC!


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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post #46 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 03:34 PM
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Jesus Christ. I didn't call you a dumbfuck then, I WAS TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE THAT I DEAL WITH IN MY LINE OF WORK.


But if it makes you feel better, you are a dumbfuck. Why? Because you just don't get it. So, now that's out of the way... What the fuck are you going to do about it, Nancy?
You're a tool, I can now see why I see you constantly involved in flame wars in various threads. Your mouth writes checks your intelligence can't cash.

edit: and as of right now, it's completely running away with the show, see last two posts.
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post #47 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 03:37 PM
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You're a tool, I can now see why I see you constantly involved in flame wars in various threads. Your mouth writes checks your intelligence can't cash.

edit: and as of right now, it's completely running away with the show, see last two posts.


I get involved with flame threads, because my #1 pet peeve is ignorance. See:you.


LMAO. No wonder you're all worked up. You don't get logic, either. Just like some of my customers. BWAAAHAHAHA!

My mouth doesn't write anything that I can't cash. Later, Nancypants.
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post #48 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 03:40 PM
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No wonder you got your panties in a bunch. You're the idiot that gets his ass in a sling because you can't fucking read. CLASSIC!


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Coming from the guy who just stated he didn't read the contract, nor has ever read it, but feels compelled to give his professional salesman opinion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bcoop
I get involved with flame threads, because my #1 pet peeve is ignorance. See:you.


LMAO. No wonder you're all worked up. You don't get logic, either. Just like some of my customers. BWAAAHAHAHA!

My mouth doesn't write anything that I can't cash. Later, Nancypants.
You should like a fantastic salesman, trashing your clients - the only one worked up here is the one fanatically throwing childish insults and trying to absolve himself from some uncalled for comments.
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post #49 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 03:47 PM
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You should like a fantastic salesman, trashing your clients - the only one worked up here is the one fanatically throwing childish insults and trying to absolve himself from some uncalled for comments.


I'm not trying to absolve myself from shit. I was trying to clarify that I wasn't calling you, personally, a dumbfuck; but that I was referring to some of my customers. But since that's too much for your little brain to comprehend, fuck it, I'm having fun with this.


Go fuck yourself with a rusty coathanger, douche nozzle.
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post #50 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-17-2008, 03:53 PM
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Coming from the guy who just stated he didn't read the contract, nor has ever read it, but feels compelled to give his professional salesman opinion.


You're right. I didn't read the contract. Why? Because I didn't do any work out at the new stadium. Why? Because I'm not a subcontractor. I've got equipment out there, but I didn't have anything to do with the installs. Why? BECAUSE I'M NOT A SUBCONTRACTOR. Jesus.


FWIW, I've been on the subcontractor end of the industry I'm in. That's where my experience comes from. That, and the fact that I'm in front of subcontractors on a daily basis. I chose to further my career, and that's why I'm at where I'm at now.
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