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post #1 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 07:39 PM Thread Starter
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I need some honest help here

I've been researching and trying to find info on where people who do not pay taxes will get money. I'm VERY interested in this. Link please. NO BS, I want to know before Tues.

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post #2 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by www.barackobama.com
Barack Obama will provide a tax cut for working families:
Obama and Biden will restore fairness to the tax code and provide 95 percent of working Americans the tax relief they need. They will create a new "Making Work Pay" tax credit of up to $500 per person, or $1,000 per working family.
Straight from the chickenfucker's mouth.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/

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post #3 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 07:47 PM
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Thinking of leaning Republican instead?

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post #4 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 07:48 PM
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orly?


"You will probably not get a tax cut under the Obama-Biden plan.
More Information"

aint that a bitch!!!!!! what else do you need, lol me too
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post #5 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 07:50 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOHC
Straight from the chickenfucker's mouth.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/
I've been there. I want to see where people who do not pay taxes will get money. I've been trying to find it from an unbiased source. I want some honest help.

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post #6 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 07:52 PM
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So that's what it boils down too for you? It's very simple to figure out. Almost 40% of the workforce already doesn't pay taxes. If 95 % of us are getting a "tax break", how does the 40% that don't pay taxes, get a "tax break"? They get a check, that's how. It's the same damn thing as welfare. Those 5% (haha!) will have their taxes "distributed" among those 40% that don't pay taxes.

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post #7 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 07:52 PM Thread Starter
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I found an article on the Wall Street Journal and it's saying what you guys are saying. I guess that I'm trying to find out where HE got his info from.

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post #8 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 07:52 PM
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JC, now that you're a business owner you're gonna be a republican before you know it...
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post #9 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsoon X
I found an article on the Wall Street Journal and it's saying what you guys are saying. I guess that I'm trying to find out where HE got his info from.
The Wall Street Journal isn't exactly "The Enquirer". They are VERY credible when it comes to business matters. VERY credible. If you are a true businessman or investor, you'll be one of the few to vote for Barry...

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post #10 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 07:56 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertnut
So that's what it boils down too for you? It's very simple to figure out. Almost 40% of the workforce already doesn't pay taxes. If 95 % of us are getting a "tax break", how does the 40% that don't pay taxes, get a "tax break"? They get a check, that's how. It's the same damn thing as welfare. Those 5% (haha!) will have their taxes "distributed" among those 40% that don't pay taxes.

Who are these people in the workforce who do not pay taxes and what they earning? My employees make $6.65-7/hr and I take out fed and state taxes.

I do not have an ulterior motive for my post. I'm trying to find out info.

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post #11 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 07:58 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox466
JC, now that you're a business owner you're gonna be a republican before you know it...
Fat head W got my vote last time. I'm not a stupid Partisan lackey. I understand that NEITHER party has all the answers. And I don't just think of myself when it comes to the country.

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post #12 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 07:59 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertnut
The Wall Street Journal isn't exactly "The Enquirer". They are VERY credible when it comes to business matters. VERY credible. If you are a true businessman or investor, you'll be one of the few to vote for Barry...
I'm not just concerned about what is in my bank account. I do worry about the welfare of the less fortunate. I do not believe that all poor people are poor simply because they're lazy.

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post #13 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:01 PM
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Since you wouldn't believe me if I actually did the math for you, I'll quote from Money Magazine.

Quote:
Many of Obama's credits are refundable, which means the government will in essence write a check to make sure that you get the full value of the credit even if it's more than you owe in taxes.

Under the Obama plan, some of the poor would in fact pay a negative tax - that is, they'd get money back from the government - even after including payroll taxes.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/13/news...mag/index3.htm

NEXT!

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post #14 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:02 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
Since you wouldn't believe me if I actually did the math for you, I'll quote from Money Magazine.



http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/13/news...mag/index3.htm

NEXT!
Thanks. This is what I wanted. Seriously, I'm not like you guys. When the truth is presented.........I change for truth.

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post #15 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsoon X
Thanks. This is what I wanted. Seriously, I'm not like you guys. When the truth is presented.........I change for truth.
Truthfully, dude, his tax plan is a moving target. I'm sure once he realized what it meant he changed it up (although I haven't heard about it yet.)

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post #16 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:06 PM
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And he wants to expand an already unfair practice called "Earned income credit" or a negative tax liability.
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post #17 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsoon X
I've been there. I want to see where people who do not pay taxes will get money. I've been trying to find it from an unbiased source. I want some honest help.
Do some math.

40% of Americans don't pay taxes.
95% are getting money from Obama.

I understand that of that 40% many may be non-filers. However, not all of them are and a good chunk of that 40% will be getting a check. What more proof do you need? Obama himself has given you what you asked for.

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post #18 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:09 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOHC
Do some math.

40% of Americans don't pay taxes.
95% are getting money from Obama.

I understand that of that 40% many may be non-filers. However, not all of them are and a good chunk of that 40% will be getting a check. What more proof do you need? Obama himself has given you what you asked for.
So 40% of people who work, their employers do not take out Fed taxes?

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post #19 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsoon X
So 40% of people who work, their employers do not take out Fed taxes?
No, they get the money returned via the EIC. The majority use Single or Head of Household as their filing status (no real relevance, just a stat)

So, they are on the tax rolls, since if they weren't we wouldn't know about them.

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post #20 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Monsoon X
Thanks. This is what I wanted. Seriously, I'm not like you guys. When the truth is presented.........I change for truth.
Jonathan seems to be insulting us! He apparently thinks that we blindly vote conservative without considering all angles. Damn!
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post #21 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Monsoon X
So 40% of people who work, their employers do not take out Fed taxes?
Federal taxes are taken out (per an employee filled out W4) according to their estimate of what their tax liability is. Lets say a person/couple only makes 25k one year but have two children, all the money that they paid into federal taxes comes back along with the refundable total of all their credits (earned income and child tax credit) which in this specific case would GIVE a couple with kids and a low income (regardless of whether they CAN work or not) a free 6k(ish) dollars directly out of the tax payers pockets.
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post #22 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox466
Jonathan seems to be insulting us! He apparently thinks that we blindly vote conservative without considering all angles. Damn!
Holier than thou...

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post #23 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:17 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
Truthfully, dude, his tax plan is a moving target. I'm sure once he realized what it meant he changed it up (although I haven't heard about it yet.)
whew. I just wanna talk to you........makes my head hurt less.

Yes, his plan does include social spending through the tax code. I'll agree.

These people do, in fact pay taxes but, they'll pay a negative tax if the credits are more than their owed taxes. Correct?

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post #24 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:20 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOHC
Holier than thou...

Man....why the hate. hahaha

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post #25 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsoon X
whew. I just wanna talk to you........makes my head hurt less.

Yes, his plan does include social spending through the tax code. I'll agree.

These people do, in fact pay taxes but, they'll pay a negative tax if the credits are more than their owed taxes. Correct?
Yepper.

Sort of like me overpaying taxes every year and getting a refund in February. Except every time I ask about those ol' dang child credits I get denied. What my kids don't cost as much as other kids or something?

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post #26 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Fox466
JC, now that you're a business owner you're gonna be a republican before you know it...
Well said ....
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post #27 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DatDude
Federal taxes are taken out (per an employee filled out W4) according to their estimate of what their tax liability is. Lets say a person/couple only makes 25k one year but have two children, all the money that they paid into federal taxes comes back along with the refundable total of all their credits (earned income and child tax credit) which in this specific case would GIVE a couple with kids and a low income (regardless of whether they CAN work or not) a free 6k(ish) dollars directly out of the tax payers pockets.
"low income" would imply that they do in fact work (so obviously they CAN)


$6k sounds like an exaggeration to me. where did you get this figure?
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post #28 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsoon X
whew. I just wanna talk to you........makes my head hurt less.

Yes, his plan does include social spending through the tax code. I'll agree.

These people do, in fact pay taxes but, they'll pay a negative tax if the credits are more than their owed taxes. Correct?

yes theyll get that money in their refund check. this is what everyone is so pissed about.
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post #29 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
Yepper.

Sort of like me overpaying taxes every year and getting a refund in February. Except every time I ask about those ol' dang child credits I get denied. What my kids don't cost as much as other kids or something?

So I guess the question is philisophical? Should Gov. help the less fortunate in their society and should it be at the expense of those who "have"?

When I didn't get a refund check, I didn't get angry about it but does it really bother you (I mean 01WhiteCobra.....what's your name?)

It's not like you don't get tax breaks that the poor do not get. You know how we do it...........we have corporations. Make money, tax shelter it and THEN pay taxes.

I'm not arguing........I guess I'm just playing Devil's advocate.

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post #30 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:30 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sc281_99-0135
yes theyll get that money in their refund check. this is what everyone is so pissed about.
But why do people get so angry over it? It's not like they do not work for a living, they are just poor as hell.

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post #31 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsoon X
Man....why the hate. hahaha
Shit. I respect you more than most of those on this site with whom my opinions supposedly align with, but when you say shit like this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsoon X
Seriously, I'm not like you guys.

...I find it hard to keep that up. There are several on here to which that applies, but there are many to which it doesn't.

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post #32 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:32 PM Thread Starter
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Shit. I respect you more than most of those on this site with whom my opinions supposedly align with, but when you say shit like this...




...I find it hard to keep that up. There are several on here to which that applies, but there are many to which it doesn't.
You're right. I apologize for that. I'll hug you tomorrow.

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post #33 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:39 PM
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I'll give you an example ......

My little sister was a waitress and made less than $20K a year . Of that they took out taxes and SS . When it came time to file , she had herself as head of house hold and her son . She always got back way more than she ever paid into the system . Its usually about $6000.00 if I remember correctly .

This is under the current tax laws . When Obama takes over , she should get even more than that .
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post #34 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:44 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thesource
I'll give you an example ......

My little sister was a waitress and made less than $20K a year . Of that they took out taxes and SS . When it came time to file , she had herself as head of house hold and her son . She always got back way more than she ever paid into the system . Its usually about $6000.00 if I remember correctly .

This is under the current tax laws . When Obama takes over , she should get even more than that .
But she's poor as hell. Does that make you angry that she gets money back?

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post #35 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thesource
I'll give you an example ......

My little sister was a waitress and made less than $20K a year . Of that they took out taxes and SS . When it came time to file , she had herself as head of house hold and her son . She always got back way more than she ever paid into the system . Its usually about $6000.00 if I remember correctly .

This is under the current tax laws . When Obama takes over , she should get even more than that .
that can't be right. when i waited tables i made about the same amount and my tax return was always around $1k. i can't imagine having one kid would bring $5k more.
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post #36 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Monsoon X
But she's poor as hell. Does that make you angry that she gets money back?
Why get back more than you put in?
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post #37 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TENGRAM
"low income" would imply that they do in fact work (so obviously they CAN)


$6k sounds like an exaggeration to me. where did you get this figure?
I didnt get my point across in what I typed.

Case in point. My brother in-law and sister have twin boys. He is the only one that works because he wants her to be a house wife. However he only makes 10ish dollars an hour and doesnt feel like he should have to work more than one job or for her to work at all. He claims max dependents on his W4 so he doesnt have much taxes taken out of each paycheck..... they are on foodstamps and claim social security (SSI) for some bullshit. They have received over 5k dollars on their tax return for the past 4 years and will again this year. He votes democrat.... go figure. And they arent the only ones I know that do this every year. In fact.... HIS brother claims two kids from a friend (she has five and is on a complete government welfare package) because two kids get you the maximum tax credits so she lets him claim a couple and they split the money they get for free on his return for those kids.

Its absolutely disgusting to me that people are alowed to have no responsibility for taking care of their own family. If you have kids.... its your job to work two or three jobs to make sure tax payers dont have to support your family.
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post #38 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Monsoon X
But she's poor as hell. Does that make you angry that she gets money back?
Its not "money back". Its something for nothing. Money out of your pocket for someone that has no ambition or drive to do better.
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post #39 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:57 PM
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She's my sister and I wish the best for her but its not what I would consider "fair" . As for being wrong , its not . I believe its a $4500.00 deduction for head of house hold and then I think its currently $2500.00 for her son .

Hell I know a guy that his old lady is a stripper . She makes major cash but claims very little since its all cash . He sells insurance when he feels like it and they have two kids . They always get big returns back every year .

I myself pay very little at the end of the year since I have two kids and a wife . By the time I take my deductions , my net income is around $25,000 according to the system . I do a lot of driving and I think they were allowing .52 a mile last year if I remember right . I normally write off 30K miles a year for business not including all the other stuff I can write off .
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post #40 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Monsoon X
Thanks. This is what I wanted. Seriously, I'm not like you guys. When the truth is presented.........I change for truth.
lol, you're just like me... I follow truth... I follow logic... I don't care WHO you vote for as long as you apply unemotional logic to your decision.

my best friend in the world is voting Obama... he's half chinese, half black, and he lives in Hollywood. (am I cool yet? LOL!) His vote is his vote, and that's that! He has his reasons, and I respect them... I don't agree, but he DOES have a stance! not a "chant"

We don't see eye to eye on everything, but he's my brother for life no matter what
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post #41 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 5.0LiterRiceEater
Why get back more than you put in?
Well i don't know. It just doesn't bother me that people who earn so little will get a check back. It's not like they're good for nothing lazy criminals who do not pay taxes at all. It just so happens that they don't make enough to really count as taxes. hahaha wow..........that's sad.

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post #42 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 09:01 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thesource
She's my sister and I wish the best for her but its not what I would consider "fair" . As for being wrong , its not . I believe its a $4500.00 deduction for head of house hold and then I think its currently $2500.00 for her son .

Hell I know a guy that his old lady is a stripper . She makes major cash but claims very little since its all cash . He sells insurance when he feels like it and they have two kids . They always get big returns back every year .

I myself pay very little at the end of the year since I have two kids and a wife . By the time I take my deductions , my net income is around $25,000 according to the system . I do a lot of driving and I think they were allowing .52 a mile last year if I remember right . I normally write off 30K miles a year for business not including all the other stuff I can write off .
Shame on your for writing stuff off. Stop avoiding taxes. :-)

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post #43 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 09:01 PM
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In fact.... HIS brother claims two kids from a friend (she has five and is on a complete government welfare package) because two kids get you the maximum tax credits so she lets him claim a couple and they split the money they get for free on his return for those kids.
Not to point fingers at a certain race but I know a shit load of people that do that and 99% of them are mexican .

Another good one is for the family to file seperately and each of them claim two kids . One person uses their address and the other uses some one elses to get the "head of house hold" deduction .
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post #44 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 09:04 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DatDude
I didnt get my point across in what I typed.

Case in point. My brother in-law and sister have twin boys. He is the only one that works because he wants her to be a house wife. However he only makes 10ish dollars an hour and doesnt feel like he should have to work more than one job or for her to work at all. He claims max dependents on his W4 so he doesnt have much taxes taken out of each paycheck..... they are on foodstamps and claim social security (SSI) for some bullshit. They have received over 5k dollars on their tax return for the past 4 years and will again this year. He votes democrat.... go figure. And they arent the only ones I know that do this every year. In fact.... HIS brother claims two kids from a friend (she has five and is on a complete government welfare package) because two kids get you the maximum tax credits so she lets him claim a couple and they split the money they get for free on his return for those kids.

Its absolutely disgusting to me that people are alowed to have no responsibility for taking care of their own family. If you have kids.... its your job to work two or three jobs to make sure tax payers dont have to support your family.

Well, not much we can do about that. People at both ends of the income spectrum will find ways to cheat the system.

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post #45 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsoon X
So I guess the question is philisophical? Should Gov. help the less fortunate in their society and should it be at the expense of those who "have"?

When I didn't get a refund check, I didn't get angry about it but does it really bother you (I mean 01WhiteCobra.....what's your name?)

It's not like you don't get tax breaks that the poor do not get. You know how we do it...........we have corporations. Make money, tax shelter it and THEN pay taxes.

I'm not arguing........I guess I'm just playing Devil's advocate.
I think the government shouldn't be in bed with big oil etc... I think that more money should be distributed down to those in need...

everyone says America is the land of opportunity, but if you grow up in the projects and get shit for education and have to fight every day to survive, it's not so great!

I think the oil tycoons that are in bed w/ president Cheney and all the bankers we just paid off for being greedy fucks should be in prison for life and all that money should be used to start REAL education for those on the bottom rung.

BUT... that's a perfect situation deal...
that will never happen

you ask me who allows that dream to die and who allows that dream to live?

I'm voting for McCain
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post #46 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsoon X
Shame on your for writing stuff off. Stop avoiding taxes. :-)
Do you know that legally you are suppose to claim everything even if it means you pay less in and receive more ??? I'll be honest , I use to back several years ago but it fucks you as you get older and try to buy things on credit . I had hell buying my house even though I owned the land and showed my past two years of tax statements showing $440K gross income but only had a net of about $18K after all the damn deductions . This was way back when I ran a full performance shop and had a shit load of over head .

Now days , I try to show a little less gross and use a lot less write offs . This has all been under the Bush tax laws except for 1999 when I went into business for myself the first time . Its going to be even worse when Obama changes things in favor of the poor and those who know how to play the system .
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post #47 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 09:06 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooter
I think the government shouldn't be in bed with big oil etc... I think that more money should be distributed down to those in need...

everyone says America is the land of opportunity, but if you grow up in the projects and get shit for education and have to fight every day to survive, it's not so great!

I think the oil tycoons that are in bed w/ president Cheney and all the bankers we just paid off for being greedy fucks should be in prison for life and all that money should be used to start REAL education for those on the bottom rung.

BUT... that's a perfect situation deal...
that will never happen

you ask me who allows that dream to die and who allows that dream to live?

I'm voting for McCain
Great post..........yes, even the last sentence was great.

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post #48 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Monsoon X
Great post..........yes, even the last sentence was great.
well, if you're feeling alone for considering a McCain vote, please understand that I'm a white boy that's scared of the idea of Palin running the country and that my two blackest friends (hey, we all gotta get our tally points cashed in somewhere! I've got so many black friends I'll probably NEVER get beat up by a black man!!!) are STRONG McCain supporters!

it's my half-breed buddy that's hard core Obama!
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post #49 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 09:24 PM
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When it comes to experience as a VP and possible president , Biden wins hands down but ........ with that said , I really think the media paints an ignorant picture of Palin . I believe she would be able to handle the job if called upon to do so as long as she's smart enough to surround herself with the right people .
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post #50 of 59 (permalink) Old 11-01-2008, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by thesource
When it comes to experience as a VP and possible president , Biden wins hands down but ........ with that said , I really think the media paints an ignorant picture of Palin . I believe she would be able to handle the job if called upon to do so as long as she's smart enough to surround herself with the right people .
I'm scared of a Palin presidency, but I'm MORE scared of a Biden presidency!

my wife was like "I don't like Palin"

I was like "well... I don't think she's all that, BUT, I rely on her advisers before I rely on Obama's!"
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