Why should I vote for John McCain? - DFWstangs Forums
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post #1 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-27-2008, 11:42 PM Thread Starter
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Why should I vote for John McCain?

Title says it all. I've heard reasons not to vote for Obama, but not one reason to vote for McCain.
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post #2 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-27-2008, 11:57 PM
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Because he's not Obama.


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post #3 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 12:08 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by vnmous93cobra
Because he's not Obama.
Not a good reason.
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post #4 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 12:43 AM
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Not a good reason.
Actually, I'd say it is.

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post #5 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 12:53 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SOHC
Actually, I'd say it is.
Like I've been saying for the past couple of weeks...It's time to balance the parties. The republicans have been in office for the last eight years. Look where we're at? Give the democrats some time to see what they can do. Will it get worse? Maybe. However, if the reps stay on the same trend, which is likely with McCain. It's going to get worse anyways.

It seems like most people on this site feel that Obama will turn this country towards communism b/c he's taxing the wealthy 3% more than others. 3%...seriously? Three percent of $250,000 is $7,500. Oh shit...your vice president can't buy clothes for brunch!
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post #6 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 01:58 AM
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In the myriad of Obama/McCain related threads created in the last couple months, I would say I've seen at least half dozen or more of our regulars make a comprehensive list of the reasons why they support McCain. I've done the same.

It has been discussed ad nauseam. Pick any of the multipage threads we have on the subject and do some reading.

And it doesn't have anything to do with the fact that he is white. It's not about race. A lot of misguided lurkers in here seem to assume that since this is a pro-conservative forum that we are bigoted provincial rubes. That's not the case. Many, including myself, have endorsed Alan Keyes. Or anyone of any color that is more of a centrist and doesn't believe in "spreading around the wealth". It's too impractical to reach that far across the aisle to a guy who was voted the most liberal Senator in the U.S. Senate.

I've written paragraph after paragraph of how I feel about Obama and McCain. I'm not going to do it every time someone creates a new thread asking why. I assume others probably feel the same way as well. We have been debating McCain/Obama for about 6 months now. There is probably 3 pages of threads on the subject.

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post #7 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 04:56 AM
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If you don't know the difference, it's not my job to convince you. These guys are waaaay apart on several issues.

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post #8 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poopnut2

It seems like most people on this site feel that Obama will turn this country towards communism b/c he's taxing the wealthy 3% more than others. 3%...seriously? Three percent of $250,000 is $7,500. Oh shit...your vice president can't buy clothes for brunch!
And when he lets the bush tax cuts lapse every one will have a tax increase. Well not every one those that suck of the gov. tit will get more milk. Why should some one that makes alot of money pay more in taxes? If you use basic math they already do this is real simple.

100,000 x 23% = 23,000
250,000 x 23% = 57,500
500.000 x 23% = 115,000

I am sure your smart enogh to take it from here. Why should anyone be punished for earning more money? Why do you think the gov. should or even could redistribute anyones money correctly?

You can't fix stupid, but you can vote it out.

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post #9 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 06:58 AM
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3 quarters of a million dollar INCREASE and you tell me employeers are not going to start tightening the belt?
And 2.8 million for a decent company is not a lot of revenue. My friends company made over 7 million last year and he only brought home around $300k. So not only is his business going to get tax increases, but so is his income. They have already had to cut jobs, increase hours, back off overtime, no raises. I can promise you just from knowing him that shit will change if that fuck gets into office.

It is fairly simple math, and anyone not wanting their $700 check for nothing can see it is better to get that raise and double that amount over a year, then get a one time pay out while the government uses the rest....

And notice on the RED side there are NO INCREASES at all....

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post #10 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 07:01 AM
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If you have a job, Obama will take your money and give it to people who are too lazy to go to work. Unless you are a lazy pos, or filthy rich you can't afford him. He is a dangerous man full of bad ideas. Do some research man.

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post #11 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poopnut2
It seems like most people on this site feel that Obama will turn this country towards communism b/c he's taxing the wealthy 3% more than others. 3%...seriously? Three percent of $250,000 is $7,500. Oh shit...your vice president can't buy clothes for brunch!
Haven't we been through this before, poopnut2?

It ain't 3%.

In fact, the successful small business will look at going from a top tax rate of 37.9% to over 50% with the Obama train.

Oh shit! Your Vice President don't care about brunch or food... he is going to fire you.

Rich people control when their income occurs and how it occurs. Those living paycheck to paycheck don't have that option.

Socialism costs money. Lots of money. The rich will pay a portion but the middle and lower class are gonna be paying a lot.

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post #12 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poopnut2
Like I've been saying for the past couple of weeks...It's time to balance the parties. The republicans have been in office for the last eight years. Look where we're at? Give the democrats some time to see what they can do. Will it get worse? Maybe. However, if the reps stay on the same trend, which is likely with McCain. It's going to get worse anyways.
I think this is the dumbest point people make when they vote. For one, we've had a democratic controlled congress the past few years, and two, the president has little or no power over the economy.

If you're gonna vote for O'drama, then vote because you believe in his polices.

As already pointed out, many here have already said why they are voting McCain in past threads. I voted for McCain because I don't believe stealing from the rich and giving to the poor works...If it doesn't work for our public schools, why would it work for an entire nation?
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post #13 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 07:07 AM
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Because he is a republicon and you make more than 250k a year and love buying ar15's.
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post #14 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poopnut2
Title says it all. I've heard reasons not to vote for Obama, but not one reason to vote for McCain.

To answer your question; I dont like his stand on firearms, his stand on the war, nor do I want a government controlled health care system just to benefit people who "CHOOSE" not to work. Good enough for you? Sounds like the beginnings of socialism to me doesn't it?



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post #15 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poopnut2
Like I've been saying for the past couple of weeks...It's time to balance the parties. The republicans have been in office for the last eight years. Look where we're at? Give the democrats some time to see what they can do. Will it get worse? Maybe. However, if the reps stay on the same trend, which is likely with McCain. It's going to get worse anyways.

It seems like most people on this site feel that Obama will turn this country towards communism b/c he's taxing the wealthy 3% more than others. 3%...seriously? Three percent of $250,000 is $7,500. Oh shit...your vice president can't buy clothes for brunch!

Republican's have not been in control though the last 2 years. We may have the HNIC, but the house and senate are controlled by Democrats.
Look at the timelines, do some research of when things started turning for the worse. About 2 years ago....
Also the Fannie/Freddie/AIG issues which put us down right now are all directly linked to lobbiest tied to Democrats. So while Bush is an easy scapegoat, he is not the problem.

And if you want to see fucked up wait till we have a socialist President supported by a liberal Congress....
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post #16 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by 67camino
And when he lets the bush tax cuts lapse every one will have a tax increase. Well not every one those that suck of the gov. tit will get more milk. Why should some one that makes alot of money pay more in taxes? If you use basic math they already do this is real simple.

100,000 x 23% = 23,000
250,000 x 23% = 57,500
500.000 x 23% = 115,000

I am sure your smart enogh to take it from here. Why should anyone be punished for earning more money? Why do you think the gov. should or even could redistribute anyones money correctly?



They shouldn't but due to the federal debt going from 1 trillion to 12 trillion in 28 years with the majority due to tax breaks to the rich and for republican started wars shows that lowering taxes is not helping the situation.
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post #17 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 07:12 AM
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Answer is easy.. do you want to feel safe or not?
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post #18 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
Haven't we been through this before, poopnut2?

It ain't 3%.

In fact, the successful small business will look at going from a top tax rate of 37.9% to over 50% with the Obama train.

Oh shit! Your Vice President don't care about brunch or food... he is going to fire you.

Rich people control when their income occurs and how it occurs. Those living paycheck to paycheck don't have that option.

Socialism costs money. Lots of money. The rich will pay a portion but the middle and lower class are gonna be paying a lot.



So we will get back to where rates were before reagan cut them to pad the pockets of the rich while running the debt up 200% in office.
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post #19 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poopnut2
It seems like most people on this site feel that Obama will turn this country towards communism b/c he's taxing the wealthy 3% more than others. 3%...seriously? Three percent of $250,000 is $7,500. Oh shit...your vice president can't buy clothes for brunch!
LMAO! 3%?! Where did you get that number?

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post #20 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 07:27 AM
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Answer is easy.. do you want to feel safe or not?

Good answer.



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post #21 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullet
They shouldn't but due to the federal debt going from 1 trillion to 12 trillion in 28 years with the majority due to tax breaks to the rich and for republican started wars shows that lowering taxes is not helping the situation.

Explain to me the reason federal debt is bad.

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post #22 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by bullet
So we will get back to where rates were before reagan cut them to pad the pockets of the rich while running the debt up 200% in office.
And we don't have the economic growth we've experienced since Reagan cut them.

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post #23 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
Explain to me the reason federal debt is bad.

You can't even understand basic concepts so why should i waste my time ?
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post #24 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
And we don't have the economic growth we've experienced since Reagan cut them.


I don't consider economic growth a false growth fueled by debt and overconsumption and now the shit is hitting the fan.


Same thing will happen with the govt, you can't keep borrowing and spending more than you take in as eventually it will catch you in the end.
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post #25 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 07:39 AM
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I'm pretty sure I have not seen one person on here say they are happy with McCain. The reason most are voting for McCain, he's the better choice.
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post #26 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 07:40 AM
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The republicons are on cnbc right now telling us how they are going to save america by reducing taxes and increase spending while borrowing more money.
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post #27 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullet
You can't even understand basic concepts so why should i waste my time ?
LOL.

Thanks for the non-answer. I know I understand why it is meaningless. I want to see why you believe it is meaningful.

You fired the "holy shit! look at the national debt problem!" cannon. Now, back it up.

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post #28 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullet
I don't consider economic growth a false growth fueled by debt and overconsumption and now the shit is hitting the fan.


Same thing will happen with the govt, you can't keep borrowing and spending more than you take in as eventually it will catch you in the end.
Wow. I guess we'll just go home with our ball and start all over again.

I mean all this economic growth in America has been smoke and mirrors. So... says... the bullet...

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post #29 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 07:45 AM
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You can't even understand basic concepts so why should i waste my time ?
LMFAO. Did you really just say that to one of the most financially savvy people on all of zeh interweb?

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post #30 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by poopnut2
Like I've been saying for the past couple of weeks...It's time to balance the parties. The republicans have been in office for the last eight years. Look where we're at? Give the democrats some time to see what they can do. Will it get worse? Maybe. However, if the reps stay on the same trend, which is likely with McCain. It's going to get worse anyways.

It seems like most people on this site feel that Obama will turn this country towards communism b/c he's taxing the wealthy 3% more than others. 3%...seriously? Three percent of $250,000 is $7,500. Oh shit...your vice president can't buy clothes for brunch!
you're an idiot.
He could cut taxes and I simply still wouldn't like what he wants to do with the taxes he'll be taking in. Bundle that up with his repetitive "spread the wealth" comments, and i have to ask "what rock are you under?"

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post #31 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 07:46 AM
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Why do you even care ?

You are already on record forsaying you are going to screw your employees out of money in order to compensate for the additional tax. Great republicon principles at work once again. This is about class warfare. The rich can only stay rich by keeping the sheep ignorant and supressed.





i'll tell you what I will answer any question on debt if you just answer one simple question.





If republicons are better for the economy and business as you claim, why do recessions happen under nearly every republicon presidency ?
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post #32 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullet
You can't even understand basic concepts so why should i waste my time ?


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post #33 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
LOL.

Thanks for the non-answer. I know I understand why it is meaningless. I want to see why you believe it is meaningful.

You fired the "holy shit! look at the national debt problem!" cannon. Now, back it up.




It's meaningless because you are not paying for it. It's the republicon way. Screw everyone at any expense and make others pay for it later.

Same exact thing happened in the s&l scandal when king john mccain had his nose up keatings ass taking hush money.

How many poor people got rich from subprime mortgages ?

And now govt is "spreading the wealth" to bail out the rich once again due to their own greed.
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post #34 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullet
Why do you even care ?

You are already on record forsaying you are going to screw your employees out of money in order to compensate for the additional tax. Great republicon principles at work once again. This is about class warfare. The rich can only stay rich by keeping the sheep ignorant and supressed.

I would think if you tax a business, it will get passed to the consumer. I just don't see many business' absorbing this.

I see it as the rich are who employee people. The only other alternative is the gov't.

I'm far from an expert, but to me, that seems logic. Explain your logic.
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post #35 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 07:56 AM
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How many poor people got rich from subprime mortgages ?

.
Several did. We call them democrats.

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post #36 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 08:00 AM
 
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Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
Explain to me the reason federal debt is bad.
Hey, no fair. I've been waiting 1 week for your reasoning that the debt isn't as bad as I fear. Since before you hurt you arm. Oh, and how is that?
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post #37 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 08:01 AM
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Here's a brain buster for you bullet. If trickle down economics doesn't work like you're trying to prove (and showing some epic fail in the process), why did Obama say he would not rescind the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy if the country is in a recession? What is that? Obama said it would furthur hurt the economy? But I thought taxing the rich is the way to go?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0...47.html?page=4

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post #38 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullet
If republicons are better for the economy and business as you claim, why do recessions happen under nearly every republicon presidency ?
Ah... question with a question.

Thanks for confirming you don't understand the federal debt.

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post #39 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 08:19 AM
 
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The National Debt Argument

Okay, so I certainly understand the conservative point of view when it comes to taxes and national debt. Is national debt bad? That shouldn't really be the question. What we should ask ourselves is... why the urgency to pay off the national debt?

If taxes are cut and money is given back to the American people, they can use that money to pay down things such as credit cards, mortgages, car loans, etc. This type of debt can cost around 18% interest - less for some, more for others. If taxes are raised and the debt is paid down, it is just another type of debt being paid by the American people, only the interest on our national debt is much lower than 18%.

So think about it the way you would your own finances and forget about the tax increases/decreases. If you have $10,000 to pay off your debt, $10,000 in debt to a credit card company at 18% interest and $10,000 in debt on your car loan at .9% interest, which would you pay?
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post #40 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullet
How many poor people got rich from subprime mortgages ?
How many poor people were GIVEN houses they cant afford? If the Govt buys mortgages like they're planning, these stupid mf'ers will walk away with houses they didn't earn...

Arguing with 01WC about economics is like calling your momma stupid... you'll lose everytime...
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post #41 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 08:19 AM
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So bullet and anyone that agrees with him-

The way to economic success for America is to

A - take away incentives to invest in business opportunities for people with capital, and reducing business income that could be used to increase business and hire more employees, by raising taxes

and

B - give as many tax dollars as possible to people who refuse to work due to drug abuse, raising too many children, failure to get an education, or outright laziness



You know what this sounds like? Taxing the "rich" to BUY votes from poor people. The incentive is to be lazy and unproductive! Tell me how this is good for America.

For the record, I want you to tell me that Republicans are the only rich people. Because I find that funny.

I love this quote. It just shows that you are dumber than a steaming pile of shit. You really put this 100% square on the Republican party?

-------


It's meaningless because you are not paying for it. It's the republicon way. Screw everyone at any expense and make others pay for it later.

Same exact thing happened in the s&l scandal when king john mccain had his nose up keatings ass taking hush money.

How many poor people got rich from subprime mortgages ?

And now govt is "spreading the wealth" to bail out the rich once again due to their own greed.
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post #42 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
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You can't even understand basic concepts so why should i waste my time ?
LMAO!!!!! you must not know who youre talking to then!!

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post #43 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weslie
Okay, so I certainly understand the conservative point of view when it comes to taxes and national debt. Is national debt bad? That shouldn't really be the question. What we should ask ourselves is... why the urgency to pay off the national debt?

If taxes are cut and money is given back to the American people, they can use that money to pay down things such as credit cards, mortgages, car loans, etc. This type of debt can cost around 18% interest - less for some, more for others. If taxes are raised and the debt is paid down, it is just another type of debt being paid by the American people, only the interest on our national debt is much lower than 18%.

So think about it the way you would your own finances and forget about the tax increases/decreases. If you have $10,000 to pay off your debt, $10,000 in debt to a credit card company at 18% interest and $10,000 in debt on your car loan at .9% interest, which would you pay?

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post #44 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1fastdem
Hey, no fair. I've been waiting 1 week for your reasoning that the debt isn't as bad as I fear. Since before you hurt you arm. Oh, and how is that?
You are right. Wrist feels much better and I've been able to open some room on the cast (actually the doctor put another cast on.)

For you and the bullet.

Most of the alarmists will talk about how we are handing out debt off to our grandkids. Well, my grandparents shoveled a debt of 120% of GDP to me. We're sitting somewhere in the 60% range of GDP now. Debt hasn't eaten me alive.

We didn't go from 120% of GDP to 60% of GDP by paying down the debt we did it by expanding the economy. Even Clinton added to the national debt.

As Clinton says, it's the economy stupid. Take something that I'm sure everyone can relate to... mortgage debt and lets talk generations. Only skipping back one generation (my parents) their mortgage debt was in 1963 was 18,000 (20% down, conventional loan) and they traded up in 1975 to 70,000 (20% down, conventional loan). There three children have a combined 1,000,000 in mortgages (assuming here that both my brothers used 20% down conventionals which, they are smart, I'm sure they did). My parents house is now free.

So, our familiy, who in the mid 70s, had 70,000 in mortgages now have around 1,000,000 in mortgages between them. Does it matter? Or we scared? No. The family grew, the incomes grew, and mortgage debt is the exact same percentage of family GDP.

Families, across generations, do not pay off mortgages. Most families (smart families) has grown aggregate incomes, assets and debts.

Like your government.

Ok, back to the government.

Debt-To-GDP ratio is a much more important indicator than aggregate debt numbers.

I'd start freaking out at 80% Debt-To-GDP because it means the economy isn't expanding fast enough or we're in a period of contraction.

I'd start freaking out at 40% Debt-To-GDP because I think strong economic growth is stronger with federal spending. If it is too low I think we're slowing growth.

Sort of like big corporations. None will finance with 100% equity financing nor will they finance with 100% debt financing.

My 401K is now a 400K (was 301K)
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post #45 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weslie
Okay, so I certainly understand the conservative point of view when it comes to taxes and national debt. Is national debt bad? That shouldn't really be the question. What we should ask ourselves is... why the urgency to pay off the national debt?

If taxes are cut and money is given back to the American people, they can use that money to pay down things such as credit cards, mortgages, car loans, etc. This type of debt can cost around 18% interest - less for some, more for others. If taxes are raised and the debt is paid down, it is just another type of debt being paid by the American people, only the interest on our national debt is much lower than 18%.

So think about it the way you would your own finances and forget about the tax increases/decreases. If you have $10,000 to pay off your debt, $10,000 in debt to a credit card company at 18% interest and $10,000 in debt on your car loan at .9% interest, which would you pay?
You are thinking about debt like a poor person or as a consumer. To intelligent business people debt is a tool.

I buy commercial real estate. If my cost of debt is lower than my cost of equity (it is, 8-9% equity versus ~6.5% debt), why would I buy a building for $40 million dollars in cash when I can pay $16 million cash and borrow the other $24 million?

The national debt works in much the same way with the idea being to grow the economy. People like bullet have a hard time understanding these things because they are simpletons who have been crippled by their grandparents and Dave Ramsey beating them over the head about how bad it is to have any sort of debt.

"I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have." - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." - Ed Howdershelt
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post #46 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 08:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AL P
You are thinking about debt like a poor person or as a consumer. To intelligent business people debt is a tool.
Exactly, because that is the only way people can relate to it when they say we should pay down the national debt. Explain it in business terms to people who don't understand the value of debt vs. equity and it's like talking to brick wall.
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post #47 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weslie
Exactly, because that is the only way people can relate to it when they say we should pay down the national debt. Explain it in business terms to people who don't understand the value of debt vs. equity and it's like talking to brick wall.
Well you can lead a horse to water...
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post #48 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weslie
Exactly, because that is the only way people can relate to it when they say we should pay down the national debt. Explain it in business terms to people who don't understand the value of debt vs. equity and it's like talking to brick wall.
And that is why they will remain poor people, will remain angry at rich people, and vote for the party giving handouts.
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post #49 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 08:52 AM
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but Alp and 01WC... I was told over and over that Debt is bad!!!! I've heard on the radio debt is bad, I shouldn't have ANY debt...cash only! I have to stuff all my money under my mattress until then!
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post #50 of 126 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 08:53 AM
Lifer
 
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Good info in here. I must admit, I'm dumb to all this myself..lol
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