Obama proposes $1,000 emergency rebate checks - DFWstangs Forums
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post #1 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 03:29 PM Thread Starter
 
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Obama proposes $1,000 emergency rebate checks

LOL Washington just doesn't get it do they? This is worse than a gas tax cut and as effective as drilling offshore.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...I1gMgD929M6A00

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ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. (AP) Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama on Friday pushed for a windfall profits tax to fund $1,000 emergency rebate checks for consumers besieged by high energy costs, a counter to Republican rival John McCain's call for more offshore drilling in coastal states like Florida.

The pitch for putting some of the economic burden of $4-a-gallon gasoline on the oil industry served a dual purpose for Obama: It allowed him to talk up an economic issue, seen by many as a strength for Democrats and a weakness for Republicans, and at the same time respond to criticism from McCain that Obama's opposition to offshore drilling leads to higher prices at the pump.

In linking McCain to the unpopular President Bush, Obama struck a theme from Ronald Reagan's successful 1980 campaign against President Jimmy Carter by asking a town-hall audience in St. Petersburg: "Do you think you are better off than you were four years ago or eight years ago? If you aren't better off, can you afford another four years?"

Obama primed the crowd by noting new government figures showing 51,000 jobs lost last month and citing 460,000 jobs lost over the last seven months. He tied other bad economic news from the Bush administration to McCain and offered his energy program as one route to relief.

"This rebate will be enough to offset the increased cost of gas for a working family over the next four months," Obama said during a two-day campaign swing in Florida. "It will be enough to cover the entire increase in your heating bills. Or you could use the rebate for any of your other bills, or even to pay down your own debt."

McCain was in Florida, too, speaking to the National Urban League's annual conference and criticizing Obama as not supportive of education initiatives that would help underprivileged students. Obama was scheduled to address the predominantly black group on Saturday.

The candidates entered Florida as a Quinnipiac University poll released Thursday showed the race there essentially tied, with Obama at 46 percent and McCain at 44 percent. The poll also showed that McCain had gained strength with independents over the last month, holding a 46-41 lead in July compared to a 47-37 Obama advantage in June.

Florida has been a heartbreaker for Democrats since they lost the state and the presidency to George W. Bush by 537 votes in the disputed 2000 election and by more than 380,000 votes in 2004. The state elected a Republican governor in 2006, a rare bright spot for the GOP that year.

Although Obama has opened seven offices in Florida, McCain has 35 there, illustrating the GOP's conviction that it cannot afford to lose Florida's 27 electoral votes in November.

McCain's campaign gained a head start over the Obama effort in the state thanks to its presidential primary early this year. The Arizona senator topped his GOP rivals and effectively vanquished from the race former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani with the help of Gov. Charlie Crist, now considered a possible running mate for McCain.

Obama and other Democrats refused to campaign for Florida's convention delegates when its primary moved ahead of other nominating contests on the calendar in violation of party rules. His main opponent, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, won only a hollow victory there because seating its delegation became embroiled in a dispute she later lost.

Energy issues could motivate Florida voters. The Quinnipiac poll showed six in 10 respondents backing Bush's call for more offshore drilling and wanting Congress to go along. At the same time, about a third of those polled favored Obama's energy policies over McCain's, with another third undecided between the two.

In St. Petersburg, Obama occasionally struggled to make his point before a boisterous crowd. Demonstrators in the audience demanded that he address minority issues, waving a banner saying "What about the black community, Obama." He countered that he pushed for a racial profiling law as a state legislator, then turned attention back to the economy with a focus on McCain.
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post #2 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 03:37 PM
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Great so take earned income from energy companies and divy it out to the masses. Nice.

Fuck working anymore. I'm going to elect Obama and I'll just sit on my ass all do. Fuck trying to get ahead.

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post #3 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
Great so take earned income from energy companies and divy it out to the masses. Nice.

Fuck working anymore. I'm going to elect Obama and I'll just sit on my ass all do. Fuck trying to get ahead.
I'm glad you have finally seen the light.
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post #4 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 04:26 PM
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Obama is an self centered socialist. Anyone who can't see that is really just plain stupid.
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post #5 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 04:29 PM
 
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Ahhh will it ever end?!!!
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post #6 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
Great so take earned income from energy companies and divy it out to the masses. Nice.

Fuck working anymore. I'm going to elect Obama and I'll just sit on my ass all do. Fuck trying to get ahead.
No, No! Keep working, man. There's a lot of sorry motherfuckers we need to feed!

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post #7 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 04:45 PM
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I might not agree with him handing out 1,000 to everyone but I will not turn him down.

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post #8 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
Great so take earned income from energy companies and divy it out to the masses. Nice.

Fuck working anymore. I'm going to elect Obama and I'll just sit on my ass all do. Fuck trying to get ahead.

Personally I see no difference in taking it from Oil companies or borrowing it from China. Just a band-aid.

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post #9 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Gripenfelter
Personally I see no difference in taking it from Oil companies or borrowing it from China. Just a band-aid.
You don't see the difference between taking away legit profits from companies and your government borrowing from China?

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post #10 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 04:58 PM
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You don't see the difference between taking away legit profits from companies and your government borrowing from China?
Holy shit...

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post #11 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
You don't see the difference between taking away legit profits from companies and your government borrowing from China?

I don't, it still points to the fact that the US government is financially irresponsible.

Tax is tax....they take what they want. It don't matter if its you, me, or Exxon. The fact is I'd rather it come from US companies, than owe a communist country more money. Pick the lesser of two evils.

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post #12 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Gripenfelter
I don't, it still points to the fact that the US government is financially irresponsible.

Tax is tax....they take what they want. It don't matter if its you, me, or Exxon. The fact is I'd rather it come from US companies, than owe a communist country more money. Pick the lesser of two evils.
So you think we won't borrow money from China and Japan because we have a windfall profit tax (one, that, btw, failed miserably back in the 80s)?

The big difference is, for example, Exxon is a highly efficient operations. In fact, even though their input costs have increase faster than their revenues, they have been able to finely tune their operation to continue running better profits (absolute and relative) quarter over quarter. What incentive does Exxon have to continue fine tuning their operations if they know the government will eat those extra efficiencies by way of additional tax no other business has to pay?

In fact, what you are doing is promoting communism by deciding a windfall profit tax is no different than borrowing from a communist nation.

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post #13 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 05:23 PM
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Yeah right.

You tax oil companies more, they'll just raise their prices to cover the "New" Tax.

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post #14 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gripenfelter
I don't, it still points to the fact that the US government is financially irresponsible.

Tax is tax....they take what they want. It don't matter if its you, me, or Exxon. The fact is I'd rather it come from US companies, than owe a communist country more money. Pick the lesser of two evils.
You're an asshole.

What is my incentive to stay in business if the Feds are going to rape me? What determines excess profits?

I would LOVE to see the oil companies say "Fuck you, you try this and we shut down US operations today."

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post #15 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
So you think we won't borrow money from China and Japan because we have a windfall profit tax (one, that, btw, failed miserably back in the 80s)?

The big difference is, for example, Exxon is a highly efficient operations. In fact, even though their input costs have increase faster than their revenues, they have been able to finely tune their operation to continue running better profits (absolute and relative) quarter over quarter. What incentive does Exxon have to continue fine tuning their operations if they know the government will eat those extra efficiencies by way of additional tax no other business has to pay?

In fact, what you are doing is promoting communism by deciding a windfall profit tax is no different than borrowing from a communist nation.
No, I never said I supported it. I just said to me there's no difference. It's either whore out our country, or rob from the rich and give to the poor.

Both are idiotic, each in their own way. Like I said, pick from the lesser of two evils.

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post #16 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Sean88gt
You're an asshole.

What is my incentive to stay in business if the Feds are going to rape me? What determines excess profits?

I would LOVE to see the oil companies say "Fuck you, you try this and we shut down US operations today."
Let me ask you a question.

Which event would you rather see occur?

Keeping borrowing money from other countries. China, getting tired of the US and our junk debt, dump it all. Middle Eastern oil rich nations buying up or own majorities in every major US corporation and financial institution.

or

Raise taxes on US corporations and rid us of or pay down this national debt?

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post #17 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Gripenfelter
Let me ask you a question.

Which event would you rather see occur?

China, getting tired of the US and our junk debt, dump it all. Middle Eastern oil rich nations buying up or own majorities in every major US corporation and financial institution.

or

Raise taxes on US corporations and rid of us or pay down this national debt?
Neither. We are standing over the hole, but we have ropes firmly wrapped around the throats, so if we go, they go.

Fucking over US corporations (I'm assuming you are an employee and don't realize how expensive it is to run a business) will ultimately fuck over US consumers. If oil companies are doing business for free, where is the incentive? They either ratchet the price up to cover the rape from the Feds or shut down.

China is reliant on us. If we (as a country and corporations) stopped buying anything from China, they would shrivel, which they need to do anyway.

There are always more scenarios then the Gloom or Doom that socialists liberals propose.

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post #18 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 05:50 PM
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Neither. We are standing over the hole, but we have ropes firmly wrapped around the throats, so if we go, they go.

Fucking over US corporations (I'm assuming you are an employee and don't realize how expensive it is to run a business) will ultimately fuck over US consumers. If oil companies are doing business for free, where is the incentive? They either ratchet the price up to cover the rape from the Feds or shut down.

China is reliant on us. If we (as a country and corporations) stopped buying anything from China, they would shrivel, which they need to do anyway.

There are always more scenarios then the Gloom or Doom that socialists liberals propose.
You see though, the first event is happening.

I'm not advocating taxing anyone, I'm a firm believer in low taxes, but we have come to a breaking period in with the government, debt, and the economy.

So, please tell me how we get this economy going, pay down debt, without raising taxes, without borrowing money from other countries, and without having other countries becoming major shareholders in US institutions to prop us up?

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post #19 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 05:57 PM
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Lower taxes. Cut wasteful spending and entitlement programs, cap welfare.

Work on fair trade agreements. US goods receive tariffs in China, so hit them here.

In source jobs. The more economic damage we inflict upon them, the weaker they become.

Worst case scenario, nationalize everything from foreign countries and fuck em!

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post #20 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Gripenfelter
So, please tell me how we get this economy going, pay down debt, without raising taxes, without borrowing money from other countries, and without having other countries becoming major shareholders in US institutions to prop us up?
Well, taking legitimate profits away from US corporations and redistributing it to the US population is surely not going to do anything to address the problems you described above (this goes for raising taxes too, another thing obama wants to do). It is socialism and punishment for doing well, pure and simple. And given today's global economy if the government starts to sieze profits or hike taxes to the moon then you'll see an exodus of US companies leaving for places like Dubai, and taking their jobs with them.

In fact, I'd say that those problems will likely never be solved until the US government fails in some way. It would take fiscal responsibility in Washington, and that ain't going to happen. Look at congress - they just voted to again raise the federal spending limit. What is the meaning of a limit if you can arbitrarily change it?
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post #21 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 06:03 PM
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Lower taxes. Cut wasteful spending and entitlement programs, cap welfare.

Work on fair trade agreements. US goods receive tariffs in China, so hit them here.

In source jobs. The more economic damage we inflict upon them, the weaker they become.

Worst case scenario, nationalize everything from foreign countries and fuck em!
I like your way of thinking. I would add:

Promote a strong dollar. Stop sending billions in foreign aid. End the war in iraq (one way or another) so we can reinvest that money into the US.

As for calling me an asshole, I know it's not like this forum to actually have a two way conversation (half open minded) without insults, but I will forgive you after your last post.

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post #22 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 07:37 PM
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I assign 'asshole' like people used to in the oldern days.

See a kid misbehaving and they want to throw a disease on him instead of "Hey, that kid is acting like an asshole!"

The war needs to be run to a point they are sustainable. But quite simply, if the rest of the world (who asked) wants us out, then fuck em! We leave. Wall this country off, spend massive amounts on defense/offense, raise the price of food and other exports to the point that the rest of the world either shrivels or survives on their own.

And use protesting liberals as air deployed IED's

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post #23 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 07:40 PM
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The war needs to be run to a point they are sustainable. But quite simply, if the rest of the world (who asked) wants us out, then fuck em! We leave. Wall this country off, spend massive amounts on defense/offense, raise the price of food and other exports to the point that the rest of the world either shrivels or survives on their own.

AMEN brother preach on!!!

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post #24 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 08:01 PM
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I assign 'asshole' like people used to in the oldern days.

See a kid misbehaving and they want to throw a disease on him instead of "Hey, that kid is acting like an asshole!"

The war needs to be run to a point they are sustainable. But quite simply, if the rest of the world (who asked) wants us out, then fuck em! We leave. Wall this country off, spend massive amounts on defense/offense, raise the price of food and other exports to the point that the rest of the world either shrivels or survives on their own.

And use protesting liberals as air deployed IED's
I've always been a proponent of "Isolationalism", though it would be tough with the ways of the world now.

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post #25 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 08:31 PM
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I've always been a proponent of "Isolationalism", though it would be tough with the ways of the world now.
I'm ok with a global economy, but when we are the wallet and are under-appreciated I say fuck them.

They should bow to us and kiss our ass. Which is why I say cut them off and see how it is without us.

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post #26 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 09:51 PM
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Raise taxes on US corporations and rid us of or pay down this national debt?
You forgot shrink government and live within our means.

You continue to advocate a socialistic program (windfall profit tax) to fix a capitalistic system. Blending the two is what got us in the mess we are in now. Continue to expand socialistic programs will only hamper and already broken down system of government and economy.

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post #27 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 09:56 PM
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Yeah right.

You tax oil companies more, they'll just raise their prices to cover the "New" Tax.
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post #28 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 10:06 PM
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Yeah right.

You tax oil companies more, they'll just raise their prices to cover the "New" Tax.
If it is like the windfall profit tax of the 80s it was more of an excise tax and not a marginal tax.

The WPT of the 80s took the difference between the market price of oil and a statutory base price which was adjusted for inflation and state tax.

Doesn't really help them to raise the price unless they want to give it to the government. The profits for the company wouldn't change although the government coffers would get larger.

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post #29 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-01-2008, 11:33 PM
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The ONLY thing that will save our economy (if it's still salvagable) is to hold the consumer 100% responsible for his own spending. Let the people sink or swim. Don't punish the companies who make money, just to prolong the inevitable.
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post #30 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-02-2008, 01:58 AM
 
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Obama is an self centered socialist. Anyone who can't see that is really just plain stupid.
Because he wants to hand out $1000?

Didn't Bush do that, like... twice?

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post #31 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-02-2008, 06:26 AM
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Because he wants to hand out $1000?

Didn't Bush do that, like... twice?
He gave tax-payers their own money. Giving folks a companies profits is just a bit socialistic...don't you think?

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post #32 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-02-2008, 07:25 AM
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End the war in iraq (one way or another) so we can reinvest that money into the US.
You want to help w/ the budget deficit? Listen to http://www.4shared.com/file/57485938/6aa5ab04/COD.html <----(edited down http://www.4shared.com/file/57486119...vorce.htmlfull program[/URL] .
Sourced from http://faithandfamily.com/radio/prog...ssues-20080430 and the published study:http://americanvalues.org/html/coff_mediaadvisory.htm.





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post #33 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-02-2008, 07:35 AM
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He gave tax-payers their own money. Giving folks a companies profits is just a bit socialistic...don't you think?
Took the words right out of my mouth. There is a huge difference between the two. Obama has no right to tax oil companies legit profits. I assure you, if this does happen, we will all end up paying for it in a big way.
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post #34 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-02-2008, 08:50 AM
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their knee jerk reaction to our knee jerk reaction of idiocy and capping profit and capitalism as a whole would be to give us the finger and leave to a country where they can actually build a fucking refinery.


they would love to be able to build a more efficient and safer refinery without the damn tree huggers getting all pissy, at least in these countries theyd still be allowed to beat the huggers asses like their parents should have done when they were little.
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post #35 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-02-2008, 10:49 AM
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post #36 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-02-2008, 10:53 AM
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Obama's populism policy will work as well help as it has in Venezuela and Zimbabwe.
Stop making sense, dammit! Obama's new energy policy is to "air up our tires" for better fuel economy!

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post #37 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-04-2008, 09:49 PM
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Stop making sense, dammit! Obama's new energy policy is to "air up our tires" for better fuel economy!
I'm going to run e/t streets at 10psi just to counteract his plan!

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post #38 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-04-2008, 10:37 PM
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Wow, another thread that has managed to blow my mind.
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post #39 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-04-2008, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silvercobra03
I might not agree with him handing out 1,000 to everyone but I will not turn him down.
Well alright. All we got from that cheapskate Bush was this lousy $600. This mothafuckin grill cost me twice dat. Obama my main man....

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand!
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post #40 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-04-2008, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sc281_99-0135
they would love to be able to build a more efficient and safer refinery without the damn tree huggers getting all pissy,
Gotta call bullshit. What treehugger gives a shit about more refining capacity in Bakersfield, Beaumont, Big Springs, etc.? What treehugger has the clout to stand up to The Oil Prez? "They would love to better accomodate the American public and bring the cost of their product down..." Hardly.

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand!
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post #41 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 11:04 AM
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sooner or later we are going to have to pay down our debt, and thats going to be done with higher taxes, there is no other way. this will cause the value of the dollar to start to go up again, and give americans more purchasing power after the tax
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post #42 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannonball996
sooner or later we are going to have to pay down our debt, and thats going to be done with higher taxes, there is no other way. this will cause the value of the dollar to start to go up again, and give americans more purchasing power after the tax
There's the primary difference between you and I. Higher taxes will just lead to...higher taxes. There's no end to it. We need to cut back on our government waste/spending to really fix the issue. Line-item veto's wouldn't hurt...

CHL holder and Conservative...AKA "Domestic Terrorist"
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post #43 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannonball996
sooner or later we are going to have to pay down our debt, and thats going to be done with higher taxes, there is no other way. this will cause the value of the dollar to start to go up again, and give americans more purchasing power after the tax
Cut the size of government, keep taxes the same.

Done deal.

It is absurd to think that giving the government more money will lead to reduced debt. It will be used to expand the government because everyone has their own little special interest to deal with.

The value of the US dollar will go up when the feds realize that just because they have a printing press doesn't mean it has to print money in ever rising frequency.

My 401K is now a 400K (was 301K)
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post #44 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
Cut the size of government, keep taxes the same.

Done deal.

It is absurd to think that giving the government more money will lead to reduced debt. It will be used to expand the government because everyone has their own little special interest to deal with.

The value of the US dollar will go up when the feds realize that just because they have a printing press doesn't mean it has to print money in ever rising frequency.
Right. When we started printing "In God We Trust" on our money, the dollar was doomed.
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post #45 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertnut
There's the primary difference between you and I. Higher taxes will just lead to...higher taxes. There's no end to it. We need to cut back on our government waste/spending to really fix the issue. Line-item veto's wouldn't hurt...
Yup!
high taxes = the government misusing more of our money and the rich hiding more of their money. Lower taxes promote the economy, rich will invest more, people are able to spend more. We just need washington to be fiscally responsible! Lets not punish the people since washington is acting like a 16 year old with a credit card with no limit.

Stand by or fight while Obama wages his war against capitalism...
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post #46 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 11:30 AM
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I would love a smaller government, and cut the budget, but you would never get everyone to agree on it. what are we going to cut down on? military spending, social security, home land security. where are you going to be able to pull 8 trillion dollars from?
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post #47 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannonball996
I would love a smaller government, and cut the budget, but you would never get everyone to agree on it. what are we going to cut down on? military spending, social security, home land security. where are you going to be able to pull 8 trillion dollars from?
Special interests, foriegn aid, CONGRESSIONAL VACATIONS.
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post #48 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
Special interests, foriegn aid, CONGRESSIONAL VACATIONS.
that would not even come close to paying off the debt
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post #49 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannonball996
that would not even come close to paying off the debt
Over time, it will. Not only will we NOT be paying for all that, but the money we would be using will go toward the debts. Think about it.
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post #50 of 99 (permalink) Old 08-05-2008, 11:49 AM
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Since there are some smart people in here, what do you think of the Fair Tax? How would that help our current economic situation?

It seems to me it would help everyone, and here's how:
Lower Income: get to keep more of their money which they desperately need, and are only taxed when they CHOOSE to spend money on taxable items.
Highest Income: get to invest more money (That is assuming they got where they are by having a little financial wisdom. Because they tend to spend more than the lower income classes, they will in turned be taxed more. Still their CHOICE.
Middle Income: A little of both.

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have."
-Gerald Ford/Thomas Jefferson

"A Republic, if you can keep it"
- Benjamin Franklin

The way to peaceably remove elected officials who deviate from the constitution of the United States of America...
www.blowoutcongress.com
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