Obama vs Mccain in townhalls? - DFWstangs Forums
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post #1 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-04-2008, 12:02 PM Thread Starter
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Obama vs Mccain in townhalls?

I say he 99% will not do this.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080604/...ain_town_halls

Quote:
McCain urges joint town halls with Obama By LIBBY QUAID, Associated Press Writer
14 minutes ago



BATON ROUGE, La. - John McCain is challenging Barack Obama to join him in 10 town hall meetings with voters between now and the Democratic National Convention in August.



McCain, the Republican nominee-in-waiting, sent his Democratic rival a letter Wednesday outlining the offer. He suggested the first town hall be held June 12 in New York.

He said President Kennedy had made such an agreement with former Senator Barry Goldwater for the 1964 election before Kennedy's assassination.

"I don't think we need any big media-run production, no process question from reporters, no spin rooms," McCain said. "Just two Americans running for office in the greatest nation on earth, responding to the questions of the people whose trust we must earn."
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post #2 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-04-2008, 12:04 PM
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I'm sure the Obama camp will decline or want to make alterations to the deal.

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Originally Posted by MR EDD View Post
it was not a problem to bring money to his house at 10pm.so why is it a problem to call and bitch.it wasnt a problem when we were all sitting around smoking pot together.yes i said it we all were smoking pot together.what now stupid.
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post #3 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-04-2008, 12:05 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mustangman_2000
I'm sure the Obama camp will decline or want to make alterations to the deal.
but...I mean why would he possibly want to do that if he's all about running a fair race and it's only about the issues? He has nothing to hide or distance from does he?

why would he not want to accept instantly?!
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post #4 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-04-2008, 12:07 PM
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Ha! No way in hell he can out-debate McCain...
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post #5 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-04-2008, 12:14 PM
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I would be very interested to see this happen.

There is a lot of talk of "change" and I want to see exactly what that means.
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post #6 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-04-2008, 12:17 PM
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I'm sure the Obama camp will decline or want to make alterations to the deal.
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post #7 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-04-2008, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaSSty Nate

why would he not want to accept instantly?!
Because in all of his vomit inducing rhetoric about "change" he fails to provide any real answers. He has delusions of grandeur and sees himself as a harbinger of sweeping socioeconomic change. Some people are telling him that he invokes the spirit of MLK & JFK and he seems to believe it. Obama is lacking two precious commodities, tenure and substance.

I would love to see the Junior Senator from Illinois debate McCain in an open forum. I think Obama is smart enough to not allow himself to become so exposed.

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it was not a problem to bring money to his house at 10pm.so why is it a problem to call and bitch.it wasnt a problem when we were all sitting around smoking pot together.yes i said it we all were smoking pot together.what now stupid.
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post #8 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-04-2008, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 46Tbird
I would be very interested to see this happen.

There is a lot of talk of "change" and I want to see exactly what that means.

Interested too...but no way does it happen.

"change" in this case= new band leader, same old band.

instead of the village idiot running things we have the village 'nam vet, or the village.........




ah, fuck it, this don't look good.

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Jester, your posts do the same thing as going to a county fair, you really make people think "Hey, I'm not so fucked up after looking at that guy!"
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post #9 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-04-2008, 01:01 PM
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post #10 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-04-2008, 03:33 PM
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John McCain challenged Barack Obama to join him in 10 town hall meetings with voters before the Democratic National Convention in August.

Why so much before the Convention? Obama shouldn't do this until after the convention. He needs time to shore up his party, in the same way that McCain had done with his party. I find the offer itself a stunt by McCain because the timing is premature.

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post #11 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-04-2008, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jones4stangs
John McCain challenged Barack Obama to join him in 10 town hall meetings with voters before the Democratic National Convention in August.

Why so much before the Convention? Obama shouldn't do this until after the convention. He needs time to shore up his party, in the same way that McCain had done with his party. I find the offer itself a stunt by McCain because the timing is premature.
McCain extended the invitation to give Obama the choice to turn him down, or go along. Either way, McCain "wins".

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post #12 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-04-2008, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jones4stangs
John McCain challenged Barack Obama to join him in 10 town hall meetings with voters before the Democratic National Convention in August.

Why so much before the Convention? Obama shouldn't do this until after the convention. He needs time to shore up his party, in the same way that McCain had done with his party. I find the offer itself a stunt by McCain because the timing is premature.
So you're saying he needs time to prepare when another man is already prepared to do the job?

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post #13 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-04-2008, 06:31 PM
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I say he does it. He's got the power of the MSJM behind him, and you can bet your ass all questions from the audience will only be asked from the hand picked group of AIPAC supporters. No questions about his tight relationship with the terrorist William Ayers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ayers (yes,I know its wiki, )But its quick and easy. and for once its very right who he admits to going to his own house for a "visit" or his racist pastor will be allowed.
And second, Our governments ruling party is foaming at the mouth thinking there a chance of a black man getting in the white house. What a great advancement that would be. We could catch up to Europe,South Africa and Australia in less than a year. Get your guns sheep

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post #14 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-04-2008, 06:35 PM
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He's hollow. He knows how to talk, and preach and nothing more. He will get drilled.

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post #15 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-04-2008, 10:45 PM
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Fuck a bunch of that baby shit...


I can have a stage up within 24 hours in Iraq for the two to have it out. I'm sure our troops would get a good boost of morale from that one!
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post #16 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-04-2008, 10:56 PM
 
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What makes anyone think John McCain will beat Barack Obama in a debate? I mean, it's easy to say "Wut's he mean by chainge?" and "No way he can out-debate McCain", but why? McCain was a prisoner of war, and he married a REALLY rich chick. That MUST mean he can debate like the dickens, eh? And I've said this before, yeah, you hear Obama talking about change. Because he was running against another democrat, with the name Clinton. He uses the "change" argument to compete against 20 years of a possible Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton.

You haven't seen half of what this guy can do. Now that he's going to be up against John McCain, you're going to see policies, ideas, etc. pop up.

And seriously, did anyone see the speeches from last night? McCain looked surprised every time he spit out a sentence. And that was in front of the 20 people that were at his "rally". After that, how can anyone say, with confidence, that he's going to beat ANYone in a debate?
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post #17 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-04-2008, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpamp
What makes anyone think John McCain will beat Barack Obama in a debate? I mean, it's easy to say "Wut's he mean by chainge?" and "No way he can out-debate McCain", but why? McCain was a prisoner of war, and he married a REALLY rich chick. That MUST mean he can debate like the dickens, eh? And I've said this before, yeah, you hear Obama talking about change. Because he was running against another democrat, with the name Clinton. He uses the "change" argument to compete against 20 years of a possible Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton.

You haven't seen half of what this guy can do. Now that he's going to be up against John McCain, you're going to see policies, ideas, etc. pop up.

And seriously, did anyone see the speeches from last night? McCain looked surprised every time he spit out a sentence. And that was in front of the 20 people that were at his "rally". After that, how can anyone say, with confidence, that he's going to beat ANYone in a debate?
Spoken like a true blind follower.
I guess you've "seen" this other half? Or do you have "faith" that half is out there some where?
Even you don't know what the change is, or will take, but you follow so blindly.

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post #18 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-04-2008, 11:36 PM
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Why should Obama? At this point he is the front runner. No reason to townhall McCain.

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post #19 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-04-2008, 11:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Godmagnus
Spoken like a true blind follower.
I guess you've "seen" this other half? Or do you have "faith" that half is out there some where?
Even you don't know what the change is, or will take, but you follow so blindly.
But see, by avoiding my question of "why would McCain win that debate", you've shown yourself to be a blind follower of McCain.

Were you TOLD to vote for him? Are you pretending it was your idea? Or will you freely admit that you check the box next to "R" no matter the name in front of it?
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post #20 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpamp
You haven't seen half of what this guy can do. Now that he's going to be up against John McCain, you're going to see policies, ideas, etc. pop up.

LMAO, oh yeah there just gonna pop up
Like change is going to happen with out a PLAN.

Admit it - Oblama just makes up shit as he goes, like a kid lying to his dad.
It's pathetic this is all the Dems got.

He won't be at the townhall.
What will you say then?

that they just haven't POPED UP yet LOL!

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post #21 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
Why should Obama? At this point he is the front runner. No reason to townhall McCain.
Maybe to prove he is the better candidate.


But,maybe he can sell BS forever though. People like you buy it.

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post #22 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by futant
Maybe to prove he is the better candidate.


But,maybe he can sell BS forever though. People like you buy it.
No, he means right now. Eventually, he'll be forced into a debate, so he better do his homework now.
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post #23 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 09:24 AM
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No, he means right now. Eventually, he'll be forced into a debate, so he better do his homework now.
Yes especially on his feel - good foreign policy ideas.
What a load of shit .

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post #24 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 09:26 AM
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Yes especially on his feel - good foreign policy ideas.
What a load of shit .
Well, he's always got an open stage out here, but that isn't happening either. I'll even send him a vest and kevlar helmet.
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post #25 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpamp
What makes anyone think John McCain will beat Barack Obama in a debate? I mean, it's easy to say "Wut's he mean by chainge?" and "No way he can out-debate McCain", but why? McCain was a prisoner of war, and he married a REALLY rich chick. That MUST mean he can debate like the dickens, eh? And I've said this before, yeah, you hear Obama talking about change. Because he was running against another democrat, with the name Clinton. He uses the "change" argument to compete against 20 years of a possible Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton.

You haven't seen half of what this guy can do. Now that he's going to be up against John McCain, you're going to see policies, ideas, etc. pop up.

And seriously, did anyone see the speeches from last night? McCain looked surprised every time he spit out a sentence. And that was in front of the 20 people that were at his "rally". After that, how can anyone say, with confidence, that he's going to beat ANYone in a debate?
Obama won't win b/c he is a marketing campaign for communist ideas to the majority of US population that frowns upon socialism/communism. He is a nut job and so are you!
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post #26 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 09:45 AM
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Well, he's always got an open stage out here, but that isn't happening either. I'll even send him a vest and kevlar helmet.
If youre in the sandbox, I appreciate it brotha!

you sure as hell aren't even seeing the news articles about the progresses being made in Iraq (recently) in the major news .
They are convienently ignoring the reports of less deaths/ violence. Good to see some people online are wising up to the slanted views of coverage and places like Drudge are gaining rediculous amounts of following.
Some day people will all take their research and news to the internet and coverage will maybe become more nuetral?

We can HOPE for CHANGE right?
Works for obama...

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post #27 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by futant
Maybe to prove he is the better candidate.


But,maybe he can sell BS forever though. People like you buy it.

LOL.

Because I know how the game is played and suggest why Obama isn't just going to jump in all over these townhalls I "buy it?"

Get real you fucking moron.

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post #28 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 11:09 AM
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Obama is going to change the world!! He has the power and the mindset

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post #29 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 11:23 AM
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all this "Change" Obama is talking about getting gets a little heavy


I'd rather keep my "change" in my pockets than give it to the gov
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post #30 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 11:27 AM
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Your wrong man Obama is the best thing that would ever happen to north korea!
Plus you know he is going to end the war on terror, so that way we can go back to our peacful lives and thinking everything is ok hip hip hooray!

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post #31 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 11:29 AM
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Your wrong man Obama is the best thing that would ever happen to north korea!
Plus you know he is going to end the war on terror, so that way we can go back to our peacful lives and thinking everything is ok hip hip hooray!
He'll make all your wildest dreams come true.

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post #32 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by gpamp
But see, by avoiding my question of "why would McCain win that debate", you've shown yourself to be a blind follower of McCain.

Were you TOLD to vote for him? Are you pretending it was your idea? Or will you freely admit that you check the box next to "R" no matter the name in front of it?
They (other posters) just think McCain would murder him in a debate, because Obama has no substance on actual numbers, or how what he wants will get done. No matter how you word it, nothing is still nothing.

Go back to your endless debate with others.

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post #33 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 12:02 PM
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LOL.

Because I know how the game is played and suggest why Obama isn't just going to jump in all over these townhalls I "buy it?"

Get real you fucking moron.
Calm down . I misunderstood what you were saying
Youre saying the same thing, that he would avoid it because he is playing the game and that it would be a good choice since you think he is ahead.
I just think he hasn't got shit to say, and he knows it.
I won't vote for someone that avoids confrontation/ useful debate.

Atleast McCain is bringing it to the table.
This is why politics and the people in them are so full of shit. It's stupid we have to play these games and people like you are O. K. with that.
I'm not. I want to see the debate, and not some bullshit mockery of what is debate show by the media with heavily screened questions etc.

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post #34 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 12:31 PM
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All McCain needs is a simple open forum to freely bring up topics and he can make Obama look like a fucking fool on just about any topic from the War in Iraq to Obama's psychopathic minister. It would be the worst thing in the world that Obama could do.
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post #35 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 01:35 PM
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All McCain needs is a simple open forum to freely bring up topics and he can make Obama look like a fucking fool on just about any topic from the War in Iraq to Obama's psychopathic minister. It would be the worst thing in the world that Obama could do.
I agree. There's no up-side for Obama to do this at this point in time. Obama isn't exactly comfortable when he's not in control of the situation. As long as there's a script, soft-ball questions, or a teleprompter, he's fine. I saw McCain being interviewed by O'Reilly a few nights ago, and I can't imagine Obama allowing that. He has been invited numerous times, but has yet to respond either way. O'Reilly would whip his ass the entire time, if he did.

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post #36 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 01:39 PM
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O'Reilly would whip his ass the entire time, if he did.
Of course he would. I would whip his ass, you could too. All you have to do is ask him to explain anything about his national healthcare plan. Or his plan for "getting out of Iraq".

Mark my words, NOTHING is going to change in Iraq if Obama is elected. It won't change one god damned thing. Neither will health care. Not a thing will change.
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post #37 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by AL P
Of course he would. I would whip his ass, you could too. All you have to do is ask him to explain anything about his national healthcare plan. Or his plan for "getting out of Iraq".

Mark my words, NOTHING is going to change in Iraq if Obama is elected. It won't change one god damned thing. Neither will health care. Not a thing will change.
One thing I can see, though, is Barry claiming Iraq was a "success" if it happens on his watch.

If you guys want to see what nationalized healthcare looks like, go to the Dallas VA Hospital, and talk to some of those guys and their families. Remember how jacked-up Walter Reed VA Hospital was? There are veterans walking around with issues from the Gulf War (not to mention Viet Nam), who won't get help because it's not worth the hassle of dealing with the VA.

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post #38 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 03:27 PM
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Nationalized healthcare is much more scary then depending on 'social security'.
Give the government anything and they will fuck it up. Looks at everything the gov touches!
It turns to shit. People are living off the government and their kids while they drive around cars with wheels more expensive then 3 months rent on them. It's simple, the gov has volunteered (for us) to take care of everyone making below line X with X number of kids. Nearly no questions asked. THIS IS COMMUNISM!
Hell everyone in the hood is gonna take that 600 bucks and go buy big rims for their vehicles anyway!

I'll agree there is a dogpile of problems with the current freemarket healthcare system, but IT's STILL THE BEST IN THE WORLD. No comparison.
Kiss that shit goodbye. Doctors will even quit with all the new govt BS they will have to go through . They won't be complaining about insurance for thier practice anymore. They'll be wondering why they spent 100K dollars on a doctors degree to be fucked over by the system.
I'm scared seriously. DISASTER would be quick , and painful for anyone in the field if the goverment attempted to control pricing or subsidize payment (rediculous wait time, hello like they aren't bad enough)
Doctors should never be free, and you should look after your own health by saving your money for bad times. Not depend on some government entity to test shit on you or when they will send you in. Hell they may not even consider your issue serious enough at that point! You will have no more right to reasonable care, because they aren't getting paid reasonably!

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post #39 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by futant
Nationalized healthcare is much more scary then depending on 'social security'.
Give the government anything and they will fuck it up. Looks at everything the gov touches!
It turns to shit. People are living off the government and their kids while they drive around cars with wheels more expensive then 3 months rent on them. It's simple, the gov has volunteered (for us) to take care of everyone making below line X with X number of kids. Nearly no questions asked. THIS IS COMMUNISM!
Hell everyone in the hood is gonna take that 600 bucks and go buy big rims for their vehicles anyway!

I'll agree there is a dogpile of problems with the current freemarket healthcare system, but IT's STILL THE BEST IN THE WORLD. No comparison.
Kiss that shit goodbye. Doctors will even quit with all the new govt BS they will have to go through . They won't be complaining about insurance for thier practice anymore. They'll be wondering why they spent 100K dollars on a doctors degree to be fucked over by the system.
I'm scared seriously. DISASTER would be quick , and painful for anyone in the field if the goverment attempted to control pricing or subsidize payment (rediculous wait time, hello like they aren't bad enough)
Doctors should never be free, and you should look after your own health by saving your money for bad times. Not depend on some government entity to test shit on you or when they will send you in. Hell they may not even consider your issue serious enough at that point! You will have no more right to reasonable care, because they aren't getting paid reasonably!
Wow. You’re a scary man. So little compassion and so much trust in private business would certainly change this country.

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Last edited by jones4stangs; 06-06-2008 at 08:47 AM.
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post #40 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by AL P
All McCain needs is a simple open forum to freely bring up topics and he can make Obama look like a fucking fool on just about any topic from the War in Iraq to Obama's psychopathic minister. It would be the worst thing in the world that Obama could do.
That day will come. We'll see if you’re anywhere close to being correct. I certainly hope not.

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post #41 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 05:26 PM
 
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Fast forward to the 6:20 mark. Although, all of it is a pretty good re-cap of the speeches 2 nights ago.
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post #42 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jones4stangs
That day will come. We'll see if you’re anywhere close to being correct. I certainly hope not.
What impresses you about Obama? Why don't you just list (alphabetically if you like) his accomplishments?

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post #43 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 06:29 PM
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What impresses you about Obama? Why don't you just list (alphabetically if you like) his accomplishments?
OK alphabetically
1. Change we can count on!
2. He is going to change the world
3. He loves Basketball

If those three things dont make you want to vote for him then you are a communist!

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post #44 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by 88'RAGTOP
OK alphabetically
1. Change we can count on!
2. He is going to change the world
3. He loves Basketball

If those three things dont make you want to vote for him then you are a communist!
Well, shit, count me in! I hear he's shittin' sirloin, and pissin' gasoline!

The American public is so damned gullible...

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post #45 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Vertnut
Well, shit, count me in! I hear he's shittin' sirloin, and pissin' gasoline!

The American public is so damned gullible...
Oh did I forget to mention that he is going to change the world.....

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post #46 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 06:52 PM
 
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But see... what does John McCain have to offer??

You're all voting for him because he's not Obama. Which is the same reason you all said Democrats were voting for Kerry, in '04. Except change "not Obama" to "Not Bush".

Vert, you can't list the reasons you like McCain. You can go google something, now that I've said that. But 10 minutes ago, you only knew that McCain was the Republican, and you don't want Obama to win. Again, most Republicans are voting for McCain, DESPITE the fact that they'd rather be voting for Huckabee, Flip Romney, or Fred.
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post #47 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 07:34 PM
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I am not voting for McCain because he is not going to change the world

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post #48 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by gpamp
But see... what does John McCain have to offer??

You're all voting for him because he's not Obama. Which is the same reason you all said Democrats were voting for Kerry, in '04. Except change "not Obama" to "Not Bush".

Vert, you can't list the reasons you like McCain. You can go google something, now that I've said that. But 10 minutes ago, you only knew that McCain was the Republican, and you don't want Obama to win. Again, most Republicans are voting for McCain, DESPITE the fact that they'd rather be voting for Huckabee, Flip Romney, or Fred.
I don't have to google anything. I'm voting for McCain to keep Obama out. Plain and simple. No bullshit...no arguing. McCain was not my first OR second choice, but on his worst day, he's better than Barry. He will win the war, he will retain the Bush tax-cuts, he will seat the best Supreme Court judges, he will NOT seek to ruin our health care, and I know he hasn't been hanging around with the likes of Louis Farakhan, Rev. Wright, or Bill Ayres. I know he served as a POW for about 5 years, and his parents didn't meet in Selma on a peace march (which took place a few years after Barry was born).

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post #49 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-05-2008, 08:20 PM
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gpamp? *crickets* gpamp? *crickets*

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post #50 of 67 (permalink) Old 06-06-2008, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpamp
But see, by avoiding my question of "why would McCain win that debate", you've shown yourself to be a blind follower of McCain.

Were you TOLD to vote for him? Are you pretending it was your idea? Or will you freely admit that you check the box next to "R" no matter the name in front of it?
Well lets see McCain has been a Senator since 1986, before that he served two terms in the House, before that he served 22 years in the Navy, 5 1/2 years of that as a POW so he understands what it means to sacrifice for this country. He currently has a published strategies via his website on the Economy, Iraq, Education, Health care, Climate change, Veterans, Immigration, 2nd Amendment, Judicial philosophy, Ethics and the Space Program to name a few. You speak of change and everyone knows that McCain has "continued to demand that Congress put an end to loopholes for special interests and fix the broken system in Washington that too often allows lobbyists to write legislation and members of Congress to waste taxpayer money".

How long has Obama served this Nation? Here is what his website says of about him

"He went on to earn his law degree from Harvard in 1991, where he became the first African-American president of the Harvard Law Review. Soon after, he returned to Chicago to practice as a civil rights lawyer and teach constitutional law. Finally, his advocacy work led him to run for the Illinois State Senate, where he served for eight years. In 2004, he became the third African American since Reconstruction to be elected to the U.S. Senate".

So he served at the state level from 1996 to 2004, then moved to D.C. now with 3 years of National experience he is the "chosen one" seriously? Hell Kennedy served in the US House from 1947 to 1953 then in the US Senate from 1953 to 1960. So even JFK had served in combat during WWII then 13 years in D.C. before becoming President. How is it that the Obama camp is so sure of this man, he is simply like a number one draft pick for the NFL, we could end up with a Dan Marino or a Ryan Leaf? Most likely Ryan Leaf as Obama has no experience that shows he is capable of leading this nation.

So how do expect that Obama could win a debate, by quoting his years of service to this nation? he has about 3, McCain has about 50 years just between the military and time in D.C., so how is he going to beat McCain? Maybe by screaming change at the top of his lungs for the next 5 months so everyone thinks something will change they just won't know what but hey change is great, why, because Obama said so

Last edited by Pro Trash; 06-06-2008 at 12:48 AM.
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