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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-29-2008, 12:49 PM Thread Starter
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Glenn Beck Article

Actually rather good.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/28/bec...ers/index.html

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How capitalism does NOT work is when we collectively look the other way as companies exploit illegal labor for their own benefit.
Which, in a sentence, sums up what I was trying to get across in the other thread.

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If you really want to be compassionate, then help immigrants get jobs here the right way. Help put crippling fines on the employers who knowingly hire illegal workers, help expand and simplify the visa process, and, most importantly, help get people to start thinking with their brains again.
Sounds beuno.

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After all, compassion without common sense may feel good but it doesn't achieve anything. If you need proof then go out and give $1,000 to every homeless person who asks you for change. I bet your heart would be full, but your wallet would soon be empty. And all those people would probably still be homeless.
Exactly.

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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-29-2008, 03:58 PM
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I think its total horse shit that these farmers refuse to enter the 21st century and continue to harvest their crops the same way for the past 150 years. The technology is proven and the machinery is available to pick these crops. The only problem is it's much cheaper to hire illegals to do the work. Instead of paying a hundred thousand dollars for a machine and have to pay skilled American's to operate and maintain it. I wish the government would hand out vouchers to these farmer's and force them to get with the times. It would be alot cheaper in the long run.

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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-29-2008, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreightTrain
The technology is proven and the machinery is available to pick these crops.
Eventually, they'll all just move the farms to Mexico where the workers are.

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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-29-2008, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
Eventually, they'll all just move the farms to Mexico where the workers are.
http://beta.ph.news.yahoo.com/ap/200...g-1be00ca.html

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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-29-2008, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
Eventually, they'll all just move the farms to Mexico where the workers are.
That's already happening in pretty big numbers from what I've heard.

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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-29-2008, 04:10 PM
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I read that article this morning and thought about posting it. He makes a lot of good points.
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-29-2008, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
Eventually, they'll all just move the farms to Mexico where the workers are.

I don't buy that one bit. America has some of the most fertile land in the world. I haven't seen any farmers throw up their hands, walk off the land, and let the weeds grow up in the fields. Granted some operations might expand into other countries, but its not like they are walking away from the land in the U.S. One thing that makes the United States so powerful is when it comes down to it we can produce and grow everything we need with in our borders. If our dipshit politicans ever let a day come were we have to rely on another country to produce our main staple of food those politicans need to be shot.

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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-29-2008, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreightTrain
If our dipshit politicans ever let a day come were we have to rely on another country to produce our main staple of food those politicans need to be shot.
Some US farms outsourced to Mexico
http://beta.ph.news.yahoo.com/ap/200...g-1be00ca.html

tic tock tic tock....

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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-29-2008, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreightTrain
I don't buy that one bit. America has some of the most fertile land in the world. I haven't seen any farmers throw up their hands, walk off the land, and let the weeds grow up in the fields. Granted some operations might expand into other countries, but its not like they are walking away from the land in the U.S. One thing that makes the United States so powerful is when it comes down to it we can produce and grow everything we need with in our borders. If our dipshit politicans ever let a day come were we have to rely on another country to produce our main staple of food those politicans need to be shot.
You mean like corn for ethanol? Food has become secondary, as long as we can find a way to not be dependent on middle eastern oil. If all we're growing here is corn for our stinking ethanol, we need a place to grow real food, right?


*This post was meant to be tongue-in-cheek*

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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-29-2008, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by black01gt
Some US farms outsourced to Mexico
http://beta.ph.news.yahoo.com/ap/200...g-1be00ca.html

tic tock tic tock....

Key Word Some. Pulling a bullshit article off the internet to prove your point is like pulling statistics out of your ass to prove your point. We all know both can be done. Plus thats a bullshit Headline for that article ment to grab your attention so you read the article. The headline states SOME US FARMS OUTSOURCED TO MEXICO. When you read the article it claims U.S. companies are farming 45k acres in mexico but no were does it say that those same companies stopped farming one acre of land in America. One more thing how is it considered outsourcing when the same Mexicans are doing the job wether in the U.S. or Mexico lol. Also dipshit, the next time you try to post an article based on the headline read the article especially the last paragraph that reads like this

"The problem is that cheaper labor in Mexico often is offset by lower productivity and high training costs, especially when it comes to enforcing U.S. food-safety standards.

"The only thing that's cheaper down here is diesel fuel and the labor per day," Scaroni said. "My productivity is down 40 percent" from U.S. levels.

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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-29-2008, 04:53 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreightTrain
I don't buy that one bit. America has some of the most fertile land in the world. I haven't seen any farmers throw up their hands, walk off the land, and let the weeds grow up in the fields. Granted some operations might expand into other countries, but its not like they are walking away from the land in the U.S. One thing that makes the United States so powerful is when it comes down to it we can produce and grow everything we need with in our borders. If our dipshit politicans ever let a day come were we have to rely on another country to produce our main staple of food those politicans need to be shot.
Really, I have a really good friend whose father law sold out his farm land and now owns a tree farm in North East Texas.

If you don't think ADM, BG and CPO won't jump ship to save a dollar you are sadly mistaken.

Everything within our borders? You better check where you are getting your food...

The trade surplus in agri was 20 billion in 1996. This year it was 2.5 billion. Tell me we aren't about to become a net importer of food.

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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-29-2008, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreightTrain
I don't buy that one bit. America has some of the most fertile land in the world. I haven't seen any farmers throw up their hands, walk off the land, and let the weeds grow up in the fields. Granted some operations might expand into other countries, but its not like they are walking away from the land in the U.S. One thing that makes the United States so powerful is when it comes down to it we can produce and grow everything we need with in our borders. If our dipshit politicans ever let a day come were we have to rely on another country to produce our main staple of food those politicans need to be shot.
01 is in his last post is right. The smaller, local farmers will certainly stay in the US until their farms go under, but the big agri-businesses can and will "move production" if the cost justification is there. There are lots of good reasons to do so - diversification of crops to multiple areas so if a crop fails in, say, kansas the same crop may not fail in mexico. Also moving offshore gets them away from US style legal and environmental oversight. Cost of labor and fuel is lower. And so on. Agri-business is just the latest in a long line of businesses that have picked up and moved.

None of which makes me particularly happy. I hate seeing businesses move offshore. It seems to me that we are slowly "parting out" the US bit by bit.
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-29-2008, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
Really, I have a really good friend whose father law sold out his farm land and now owns a tree farm in North East Texas.

If you don't think ADM, BG and CPO won't jump ship to save a dollar you are sadly mistaken.

Everything within our borders? You better check where you are getting your food...

The trade surplus in agri was 20 billion in 1996. This year it was 2.5 billion. Tell me we aren't about to become a net importer of food.

The US imports about 11 percent of its food mainly being certain red meats, shellfish, vegtables and fruit. This is due to people just like me that like to eat exotic things. All and all the US is still the largest Exporter of food in the world. I certainly haven't seen any loaded grain trains coming from the ports of the west coats headed to the heartland of America.

You should know better than anyone with high fuel prices and a weak dollar it's cheaper to grow the stuff here than it is to grow it somewhere else and pay for it in US dollars and then have the cost of transporting it over here.

TRAIN TRASH it's like WHITE TRASH but with money.

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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-29-2008, 06:01 PM
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This is the part I liked.

The unspoken truth is that these businesses don't hire illegal aliens because they can't find American workers, they hire illegal aliens because they don't want American workers. And it has nothing to do with wages.

Illegal aliens mean no workers' comp claims, no age, race or sex discrimination lawsuits, no healthcare premiums, no unions, and no demands for raises, vacations or bigger offices. In fact, illegal immigrants are the perfect employees because they're not employees at all; they're corporate slaves.

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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-29-2008, 06:53 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreightTrain
The US imports about 11 percent of its food mainly being certain red meats, shellfish, vegtables and fruit. This is due to people just like me that like to eat exotic things. All and all the US is still the largest Exporter of food in the world. I certainly haven't seen any loaded grain trains coming from the ports of the west coats headed to the heartland of America.

You should know better than anyone with high fuel prices and a weak dollar it's cheaper to grow the stuff here than it is to grow it somewhere else and pay for it in US dollars and then have the cost of transporting it over here.
Ok, Freight, you are right. I mean we haven't lost 10% of our farmland in the states in the past decade. The government figures are lying to us.

The media is reporting lies to scare off potential farmers.

Life is good according to the train driver.

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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-29-2008, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jones4stangs
This is the part I liked.

The unspoken truth is that these businesses don't hire illegal aliens because they can't find American workers, they hire illegal aliens because they don't want American workers. And it has nothing to do with wages.

Illegal aliens mean no workers' comp claims, no age, race or sex discrimination lawsuits, no healthcare premiums, no unions, and no demands for raises, vacations or bigger offices. In fact, illegal immigrants are the perfect employees because they're not employees at all; they're corporate slaves.
You forgot, if they have to fire them or lay them off, no unemployment costs.
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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-29-2008, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreightTrain
Pulling a bullshit article off the internet to prove your point is like pulling statistics out of your ass to prove your point. We all know both can be done. Plus thats a bullshit Headline for that article ment to grab your attention so you read the article. The headline states SOME US FARMS OUTSOURCED TO MEXICO. When you read the article it claims U.S. companies are farming 45k acres in mexico but no were does it say that those same companies stopped farming one acre of land in America. One more thing how is it considered outsourcing when the same Mexicans are doing the job wether in the U.S. or Mexico lol. Also dipshit, the next time you try to post an article based on the headline read the article especially the last paragraph that reads like this
I didn't "pull" shit and I'm not trying to "prove" any point. I saw it today in yahoo news and posted it for this thread. Big deal. Don't read it if you're gonna have a stroke over it. You always get your panties wadded up so easily? And yes. They will eventually outsource our commericial food producing capabilities like they have any other industry that would give us any value. Their intentions are to paralyze our middle class society. Where the fuck have you been?
Beyond that...fuck you. Dipshit.

Gaddamned there are some grouchy motherfuckers round here.

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Last edited by black01gt; 05-29-2008 at 08:42 PM.
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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-29-2008, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
Ok, Freight, you are right. I mean we haven't lost 10% of our farmland in the states in the past decade. The government figures are lying to us.

The media is reporting lies to scare off potential farmers.

Life is good according to the train driver.

True we might have lost 10% of our farm land but that number is jaded. Lets go back 100 years and compare the amount of farm land to present day numbers. Guess what we've lost a crap load of farm land, but that doesn't matter because even though we have less farm land today, productivity has skyrocketed on the remaining land that is being farmed.


Let me let you in on a little secret about farmers and ranchers because I'm sure this is the next point that will be brought up. They are all a bunch of dam liars. I come from a family full of farmers and ranchers that own land from Texas to Iowa and everyone of them will tell you the same shit year after year, "they are just barely getting by." Of course every year they buy a brand new 50k truck and every 5 years they buy a new 250k tractor or combine. They want the general public to think they are going broke so the government keeps paying them subsidies. I have one uncle that leases some land out in houston to a rice farmer. The gov gives him a 20k subsidy because his land is used to grow rice. I think this is total horseshit since he's not the one growing the rice, but thats goverment bureaucracy for you.


I never said life was great I just contest that it isn't as bad as some newspaper article wants you to beleive it is. We all know numbers can be scewed to prove anything, I just try to look behind the numbers to what I'm experiencing out in the real world.

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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-29-2008, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/28/bec...ers/index.html
Which, in a sentence, sums up what I was trying to get across in the other thread.
Isnt that what you do though with your "grass mowers"? Is look the other way to benefit you?

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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-29-2008, 09:13 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMax404m
Isnt that what you do though with your "grass mowers"? Is look the other way to benefit you?
Again, Max, all I saying is why the "kick them all out" shit ain't gonna work.

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post #21 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-29-2008, 09:35 PM
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Problem is we wont ever know if it would work or not....they took over the country already, give it 5yrs and im sure the cartel will be up in kansas

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post #22 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-29-2008, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMax404m
Problem is we wont ever know if it would work or not....they took over the country already, give it 5yrs and im sure the cartel will be up in kansas
I'm afraid we've missed our window of even an attempt to have any monitoring chance or control. Good food tho.

But that don't just apply to Meskins.

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