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post #1 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 08:52 AM Thread Starter
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What if McCain...

During one of his speeches, just told the American people something along these lines:"I know I appear to be an old and stiff 72 year-old man, but I have the heart of a 32 year-old, and am stiff because of the Viet Cong breaking both of my shoulders and hanging me from a beam for weeks on end. I didn't cave in with them, and I have the same allegiance to this country and the American people as I did then." What do you think? Is honesty truly the best policy? He should use his age and experience as an advantage, instead of a detriment.

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post #2 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 09:02 AM
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He should also play his intelligence about how the world really works to the American people, who deserve far better than the Michael Jackson/Neverland type of clown that the Democratic Party has coughed up for their presumed nominee.
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post #3 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 09:34 AM
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He also shouldn't use America's day of mourning for its fallen troops to denounce the new GI bill, being that the old GI bill got him where he is. Everyone can't marry an heiress.

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post #4 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
He should also play his intelligence about how the world really works to the American people, who deserve far better than the Michael Jackson/Neverland type of clown that the Democratic Party has coughed up for their presumed nominee.
LMAO, took me a second to get that one..
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post #5 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 10:05 AM
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re

took me a while to get that one too.

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post #6 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 10:08 AM
 
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I agree. He needs to use his age and war experience against Obama. Obama doesn't have any personal experience, only family member stories. McCain's new word of no "surrender" is killer. I'm not sure who we would be surrendering to if we pulled the troops out, but its a great saying. American people do not like to surrender to anyone.
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post #7 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 01:14 PM
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Of the choices we have to choose from Mc Cain is by far the best one . I doubt he can fuck things up more than G.W has managed to do so far .
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post #8 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-30-2008, 02:43 PM
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post #9 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-31-2008, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Gimmeabeer
He also shouldn't use America's day of mourning for its fallen troops to denounce the new GI bill, being that the old GI bill got him where he is. Everyone can't marry an heiress.
He simply wants to equate the GI Bill to time in service. I served 9.5 years and the VA payed for everything when I went through college. I served overseas for 6.4 years of my 9.5 in service, I am 60% disabled after 4 tours of combat, 14 surgeries and a medical retirement, I agree with him.

A kid who joins the Navy and types in San Diego for 3 years never seeing a hazardous day in his life does not deserve the same benifit as a grunt who serves 4 years and 3 of them in combat zones. I think troops should get out of it what they put in it. They should have the GI Bill on a points system, do the minimum get the minimum, do more get more.
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post #10 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Gimmeabeer
He also shouldn't use America's day of mourning for its fallen troops to denounce the new GI bill, being that the old GI bill got him where he is. Everyone can't marry an heiress.
Also McCain never used the GI Bill, he graduated from Annapolis in 1958 and was a Commissioned Naval Officer. So I think you are confused or ignorant to how the GI Bill works.
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post #11 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 09:38 PM
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Also McCain never used the GI Bill, he graduated from Annapolis in 1958 and was a Commissioned Naval Officer. So I think you are confused or ignorant to how the GI Bill works.
No, I'm aware of how it works. I was simply trying to say that he got an education on the US's dime, and I worded it wrong. I think it's extremely disingenuous of him all the same, since he hadn't served any enlisted time prior to his college career. I know that's still a different situation, but everyone can't go to Annapolis.

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post #12 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 09:39 PM
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A kid who joins the Navy and types in San Diego for 3 years never seeing a hazardous day in his life does not deserve the same benifit as a grunt who serves 4 years and 3 of them in combat zones. I think troops should get out of it what they put in it. They should have the GI Bill on a points system, do the minimum get the minimum, do more get more.
So you're saying that non-combat troops aren't vital, and deserve lower benefits? Fuck that, you're wrong. That's what combat pay is supposed to make up for.

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post #13 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Gimmeabeer
No, I'm aware of how it works. I was simply trying to say that he got an education on the US's dime, and I worded it wrong. I think it's extremely disingenuous of him all the same, since he hadn't served any enlisted time prior to his college career. I know that's still a different situation, but everyone can't go to Annapolis.
He chose his path, just as some kid chooses his when he enlists directly out of high school. Same goes for the jobs that they pick.
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post #14 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Gimmeabeer
So you're saying that non-combat troops aren't vital, and deserve lower benefits? Fuck that, you're wrong. That's what combat pay is supposed to make up for.
Nope, you said that. Maybe you should read what I wrote I said use a points system. I think troops deserve their benefits but earned system. Currently they don't have a graduated bill but they should, a troop that serves two years has not given up as much of his time and life as say one who serves 4 years. They should have a basic college rate then add benefits after that for combat tours, reenlistments and job. Are you saying a troop that is lets a dental assistant gave up as much as an infantryman?

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post #15 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 10:16 PM
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He chose his path, just as some kid chooses his when he enlists directly out of high school. Same goes for the jobs that they pick.
Well we'll just have to agree to disagree, riding a desk is not the same as being in the streets of Iraq everyday. REMF's are just that REMF's.
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post #16 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Pro Trash
Nope, you said that. Maybe you should read what I wrote I said use a points system. I think troops deserve their benifits but earned system. Currently they don't have a graduated bill but they should, a troop that serves two years has not given up as much of his time and life as say one who serves 4 years. They should have a basic college rate then add benefits after that for combat tours, reenlistments and job. Are you saying a troop that is lets a dental assistant gave up as much as an infantryman?
I see what you're saying, but that starts prioritizing their importance to the overall mission, which totally underminds the whole "one team, one mission" philosiphy. I can see a time-weighed benefits plan, but not job-specific.
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post #17 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 10:18 PM
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Well we'll just have to agree to disagree, riding a desk is not the same as being in the streets of Iraq everyday. REMF's are just that REMF's.
You'll end up making bigger divisions within units/companies/MOS than there already are.
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post #18 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 10:22 PM
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Nope, you said that. Maybe you should read what I wrote I said use a points system. I think troops deserve their benifits but earned system. Currently they don't have a graduated bill but they should, a troop that serves two years has not given up as much of his time and life as say one who serves 4 years. They should have a basic college rate then add benefits after that for combat tours, reenlistments and job. Are you saying a troop that is lets a dental assistant gave up as much as an infantryman?
Look, I'm not saying I believe the proposed bill is ok, but the current system is inadequate. If you ask me, btw, no one serving should pay taxes, either. You guys need to be taken care of.

EDIT: You're also discounting their future contribution to this country as civilians. Shit, West Point put out more civil engineers in its first hundred years than any other college around at the time. For every dollar we spent sending WWII vets to school, (many of them only having served 2-3 years, many of them desk jockeys, btw) we got back 7 dollars in overall pay than we would've otherwise.

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post #19 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 10:23 PM
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Well we'll just have to agree to disagree, riding a desk is not the same as being in the streets of Iraq everyday. REMF's are just that REMF's.
They do a lot for you frontline guys, don't take them for granted.

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post #20 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 10:26 PM
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You'll end up making bigger divisions within units/companies/MOS than there already are.
Not if the dental assistant goes to Iraq then he earns points for being in a combat theatre. I always thought well of and had respect for REMF's but lets face it they didn't face hardships like the infantry, tankers, arty, engineers, etc, have. I think the bonuses are a nice touch but educational benifits should be graduated not just handed out like candy. Everyone has their place in the military but those who serve in Iraq or Afghan give more regardless of MOS, just my opinion no one has to agree.
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post #21 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 10:27 PM
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They do a lot for you frontline guys, don't take them for granted.
I never did but don't equate someone pushing a paystub or insurance document through the S-1 channels to someone eating sand and patroling the streets.
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post #22 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 10:30 PM
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I never did but don't equate someone pushing a paystub or insurance document through the S-1 channels to someone eating sand and patroling the streets.
I'm not, but service to your country can mean many things. See my "EDIT."

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post #23 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 10:36 PM
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I'm not, but service to your country can mean many things. See my "EDIT."
What branch did you serve in?
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post #24 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 10:37 PM
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Not if the dental assistant goes to Iraq then he earns points for being in a combat theatre. I always thought well of and had respect for REMF's but lets face it they didn't face hardships like the infantry, tankers, arty, engineers, etc, have. I think the bonuses are a nice touch but educational benifits should be graduated not just handed out like candy. Everyone has their place in the military but those who serve in Iraq or Afghan give more regardless of MOS, just my opinion no one has to agree.
I'm not talking combat to non-combat theatres. I was more MOS-specific. Someone who is "just a dentist" in Iraq is still in Iraq. That's OK. I get some grief from troops out here because I'm "just a civilian," but they sure like the Cadillacesque base they live on. 1/2 these jokers never experienced a combat theatre from years ago.
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post #25 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 10:45 PM
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I'm not talking combat to non-combat theatres. I was more MOS-specific. Someone who is "just a dentist" in Iraq is still in Iraq. That's OK. I get some grief from troops out here because I'm "just a civilian," but they sure like the Cadillacesque base they live on. 1/2 these jokers never experienced a combat theatre from years ago.
When we went over there in 1990 we dug in on the border and live in dam fox holes in the middle of the Saudi Desert on the border. I didn't see a toilet or indoor plumbing from September 1990 until April 1991, LOL. I recall one of my bud was living in one of Sadams palaces back in 04.
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post #26 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 10:50 PM
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When we went over there in 1990 we dug in on the border and live in dam fox holes in the middle of the Saudi Desert on the border. I didn't see a toilet or indoor plumbing from September 1990 until April 1991, LOL. I recall one of my bud was living in one of Sadams palaces back in 04.
Different mission, different times. I'm sure a WWII vet could hold down some worse conditions as yourself. Just because someone has it "harder" than another, doesn't qualify him for more/better benefis.
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post #27 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 11:09 PM
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Different mission, different times. I'm sure a WWII vet could hold down some worse conditions as yourself. Just because someone has it "harder" than another, doesn't qualify him for more/better benefis.
I don't know those WWII vets saw shit that should have granted them benefits for PhD's.
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post #28 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 11:25 PM
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What branch did you serve in?
I didn't. I tried to join the Marines, then the army, from when I was 17, until I was 25. I'm medically DQ'd from service.

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post #29 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 08:39 AM
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I didn't. I tried to join the Marines, then the army, from when I was 17, until I was 25. I'm medically DQ'd from service.
Sorry to hear that.
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post #30 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 09:29 PM
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What about those who were discharged and medically retired before their 4 was up? I only got to put in 3 1/2 of my 4 and all mine was Infantry time, where my brother is in the Air Force as a mechanic and has done 6. Does he get more benefits than me because of his time?
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post #31 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 10:32 PM
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What about those who were discharged and medically retired before their 4 was up? I only got to put in 3 1/2 of my 4 and all mine was Infantry time, where my brother is in the Air Force as a mechanic and has done 6. Does he get more benefits than me because of his time?
Hell yes he does, you slacker!




BTW, they don't medically discharge you anymore for premature ejaculation.
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post #32 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 10:40 PM
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Damn. See that's what they told me so I went and took a bullet in the head. Sure way of getting medically discharged.
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post #33 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 10:48 PM
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Damn. See that's what they told me so I went and took a bullet in the head. Sure way of getting medically discharged.
Ah... one of those "million dollar wounds," minus the million bucks.
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post #34 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Gimmeabeer
He also shouldn't use America's day of mourning for its fallen troops to denounce the new GI bill, being that the old GI bill got him where he is. Everyone can't marry an heiress.
you should probably take a look about what those changes are/will result in.
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post #35 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 12:23 AM
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you should probably take a look about what those changes are/will result in.
Fair enough. I don't agree with all of it, but I don't think enough is being done. Also, regardless of his stance or mine, it's an inappropriate time to politicize the issue.

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post #36 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 10:44 AM
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I wish it was a million dollar wound. I could use the cash. Maybe my mustang would be up and ready
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post #37 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 10:49 AM
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Damn. See that's what they told me so I went and took a bullet in the head. Sure way of getting medically discharged.
well at least when they shot you they hit the place that would cause the least problems for you, you hard headed s.o.b., LOL. Thank god you're still with us though.
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post #38 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 12:39 PM
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I agree with Pro to a certain extent, like denny said. You choose your branch and job in it. I automatically get bs cause I joined the AF, and yet someone with the same time in and rank gets the same $$ I do. As far as where I agree with pro, is that if someone is deployed to a combat theatre then yes, if a point system was implemented they should receive more points. Then again as previously stated, thats what combat pay and exclusion of taxes is for.

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post #39 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 12:56 PM
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I'm actually of the opinion that no serviceman should pay income taxes.

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post #40 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 01:00 PM
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I am of the opinion that all service members should get free health care for the rest of their lives due to complications that could arise due to service.
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post #41 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 01:01 PM
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I'm actually of the opinion that no serviceman should pay income taxes.
While that sounds good to me, you have the guard and reserves. Should they only get tax exclusion for thier weekends and 2 weeks? Me personally, I could live with it, but im sure others would bitch a fit.

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post #42 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 01:05 PM
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I agree with Pro to a certain extent, like denny said. You choose your branch and job in it. I automatically get bs cause I joined the AF, and yet someone with the same time in and rank gets the same $$ I do. As far as where I agree with pro, is that if someone is deployed to a combat theatre then yes, if a point system was implemented they should receive more points. Then again as previously stated, thats what combat pay and exclusion of taxes is for.

My questions still remains. What if you're injured and discharged while you're in combat? Under the point system, odds are, my GI Bill would be cut short (it already is) while someone who sat at the camp flipping pancakes would get more and never see combat.
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post #43 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 01:09 PM
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My questions still remains. What if you're injured and discharged while you're in combat? Under the point system, odds are, my GI Bill would be cut short (it already is) while someone who sat at the camp flipping pancakes would get more and never see combat.
With the information you've given. Something went wrong during your ourprocessing. If discharged, you have x amount of days to file for your GI bill access. Thats reguardless of how your discharged btw.

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post #44 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 01:10 PM
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While that sounds good to me, you have the guard and reserves. Should they only get tax exclusion for thier weekends and 2 weeks? Me personally, I could live with it, but im sure others would bitch a fit.
Sorry, I meant on income earned from the military, not ever.

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post #45 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 01:16 PM
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I get it, but I don't get the full Bill because I didn't "complete the 4 year contract" according to the Army. I'm not terribly worried as I have the Hazlewood act to fall back on and am medically retired so going to school is a way I socialize but still....annoying.
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post #46 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 01:24 PM
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I get it, but I don't get the full Bill because I didn't "complete the 4 year contract" according to the Army. I'm not terribly worried as I have the Hazlewood act to fall back on and am medically retired so going to school is a way I socialize but still....annoying.
Hmm, thats odd. what year did you get discharged? I'll use one of my close friends as a reference. He was in the navy, dishonorably discharged and while going through the process of being kicked out he put in for his GI bill. After only being in for 2 years and they gave it to him and even after he was out the navy still paid for his college. So I'm thinking whomever you talked to basically lied to you.

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post #47 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 01:34 PM
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I was discharged in 04. They may have lied to me. I didn't exactly get my briefings to teach me to get along with others like everyone else did. They said "Oh, you're no longer in the hospital? Good, here's your discharge papers, by the way, you're on temporary retirement because you're not stable yet."

Not stable enough to be completely let go, but good enough to be released to try to survive on my own. Smart idea.
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post #48 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 01:49 PM
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I was discharged in 04. They may have lied to me. I didn't exactly get my briefings to teach me to get along with others like everyone else did. They said "Oh, you're no longer in the hospital? Good, here's your discharge papers, by the way, you're on temporary retirement because you're not stable yet."

Not stable enough to be completely let go, but good enough to be released to try to survive on my own. Smart idea.
Well how the military handles injured personnel is a topic of much controversy. They have a piss pore track record, yet aren't fully subject to laws as a public hospital is. I myself am a testament to it, via the anthrax vaccine.

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post #49 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 01:59 PM
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Those anthrax vaccines burned like a bitch didn't they?
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post #50 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by forever_frost
Those anthrax vaccines burned like a bitch didn't they?
They do more than that.

07 TBSS mods inc
636ryder is offline  
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