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post #1 of 93 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 05:52 PM Thread Starter
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Obama is a flip-flopper!....

according to the RNC. This was taken from Newsmax.com.

"RNC: Obama Flip-Flops on Iran Meeting

Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:13 PM

The Republican National Committee issued the following statement today:

Yesterday, Obama said that he would not necessarily meet with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad:

"Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama underscored his willingness to talk to leaders of countries like Iran that are considered U.S. adversaries but said that does not necessarily mean an audience with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad." (Caren Bohan, "Obama Says Won't Guarantee Ahmadinejad A Meeting," Reuters, 5/26/08)

"'There's no reason why we would necessarily meet with Ahmadinejad before we know he's actually in power. He's not the most powerful person in Iran,' Obama told reporters while campaigning in New Mexico." (Caren Bohan, "Obama Says Won't Guarantee Ahmadinejad A Meeting," Reuters, 5/26/08)

But in July 2007, Obama said he would meet with the leaders of hostile foreign nations, including Iran:

At a July 2007 debate, Obama announced he would personally meet with leaders Of Iran, North Korea, Syria and other hostile nations "without precondition."

Question: "[W]ould you be willing to meet separately, without precondition, during the first year of your administration, in Washington or anywhere else, with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea, in order to bridge the gap that divides our countries?"

Obama: "I would. And the reason is this, that the notion that somehow not talking to countries is punishment to them - which has been the guiding diplomatic principle of this administration - is ridiculous." (CNN/YouTube Democrat Presidential Candidate Debate, Charleston, SC, 7/23/07)

Obama repeatedly has stood by his position that he would meet with rogue leaders, including Ahmadinejad:

In A September 2007 Press Conference, Obama Confirmed That He Would Meet Specifically With Ahmadinejad.

Question: "Senator, you've said before that you'd meet with President Ahmadinejad ..."

Obama: "Uh huh."

Question: "Would you still meet with him today?"

Obama: "Yeah, nothing's changed with respect to my belief that strong countries and strong presidents talk to their enemies and talk to their adversaries. I find many of President Ahmadinejad's statements odious and I've said that repeatedly. And I think that we have to recognize that there are a lot of rogue nations in the world that don't have American interests at heart. But what I also believe is that, as John F. Kennedy said, we should never negotiate out of fear but we should never fear to negotiate. And by us listening to the views even of those who we violently disagree with - that sends a signal to the world that we are going to turn the page on the failed diplomacy that the Bush Administration has practiced for so long." (Sen. Barack Obama, Press Conference, New York, NY, 9/24/07)

In December 2007, Obama said he was not afraid of "Losing a propaganda war" by reaching out to hostile leaders like Ahmadinejad.

Obama: "[I]'ve got to say I'm not afraid of losing a propaganda war to somebody like Ahmadinejad. You know, strong countries and strong presidents speak with their adversaries. I always think back to J.F.K.'s saying that we should never negotiate out of fear, but we shouldn't fear to negotiate. We remain the most powerful nation, by far, on earth. Our military capacity is unequaled. We should not hesitate to go ahead and initiate the kinds of discussions that are required." (NBC's "Meet The Press," 11/11/07)

At a December 2007 debate, Obama said he would talk directly to Iran, even though it would "Not necessarily ... change Ahmadinejad's mind."

Obama: "We need to send a strong signal that we are going to talk directly to not just our friends but also to our enemies. And I have to say that when I brought this up early on in this campaign, I was called naive and irresponsible. And yet the point, the reason for that was not necessarily because we're going to change Ahmadinejad's mind. It's because we're going to change the minds of people inside Iran, moderate forces inside Iran, as well as our Muslim allies around the region, that we are willing to listen to them and try to engage in finding ways to resolve conflicts cooperatively." (Sen. Barack Obama, National Public Radio Democrat Presidential Candidate Debate, Des Moines, IA, 12/4/07)

On "Meet The Press" this month, Obama reiterated his position that "We've got to talk directly to Iran."

Obama: "I have consistently said that we've got to talk directly to Iran, send them a clear message that they have to stop, not only with their potential funding of militias inside of Iraq, but they also have to stop funding Hamas, they have to stop funding Hezbollah, they've got to stand down on their nuclear weapons. There will be continued consequences for those kinds of actions, but that here are also some carrots and possible benefits if they change behavior. Those kinds of direct talks have not taken place. That's the kind of change in foreign policy that I plan to put in place when I'm President of the United States." (NBC's "Meet The Press," 5/4/08)

© 2008 Newsmax. All rights reserved."

OUCH! Obama has not even gotten the nomination and he is being shown for what he truly is, a typical politician who will say anything to get elected. When he wants to appease the hard core left, he say he will meet with Ahmadinejad. Then when he wants to talk to the moderates and conservatives, he changes his mind. Hmmm, sounds like another Dem who got labeled as a flip-flopper to me. LOL

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post #2 of 93 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 07:18 PM
 
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The definition of "flip-flop" would be: "To reverse a stand or position," or "Sudden reversal of policy or strategy," according to Merriam-Webster. From the title, you clearly want to make the point that Barack Obama has "flip-flopped" on his position to meet with the leaders of Iran should he become president. It's not clear in your post that Barack Obama has backed away from that position. In fact, if anything, the information you posted makes it clear that Obama has become more specific about exactly who he would meet with in Iran. It is a fact that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is not the most powerful person in Iran. Iran is controlled by its religious leaders who appoint the Supreme Leader, currently Ali Khamenei. The President of Iran is elected by popular vote by the people of Iran, and is technically a figurehead.
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post #3 of 93 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by 99MustangGT
Iran is controlled by its religious leaders who appoint the Supreme Leader, currently Ali Khamenei. The President of Iran is elected by popular vote by the people of Iran, and is technically a figurehead. [/size]
If Obama is (or is even suggested) a muslim that converted to Christianity...I don't see that meeting going well.

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post #4 of 93 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 07:27 PM
 
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Reeeeeeeeeeeeach.

Not to mention... McCain once said that he would never try and overturn Roe vs. Wade. Now he is. For your records, THAT is a flip flop.
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post #5 of 93 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 09:33 PM
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He better be a flip-flopper, because he hasn't said much right yet. I'm beginning to think he's not the best candidate for the Dems.

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post #6 of 93 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 08:57 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 99MustangGT
The definition of "flip-flop" would be: "To reverse a stand or position," or "Sudden reversal of policy or strategy," according to Merriam-Webster. From the title, you clearly want to make the point that Barack Obama has "flip-flopped" on his position to meet with the leaders of Iran should he become president. It's not clear in your post that Barack Obama has backed away from that position. In fact, if anything, the information you posted makes it clear that Obama has become more specific about exactly who he would meet with in Iran. It is a fact that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is not the most powerful person in Iran. Iran is controlled by its religious leaders who appoint the Supreme Leader, currently Ali Khamenei. The President of Iran is elected by popular vote by the people of Iran, and is technically a figurehead.
Sorry, but the Keith Olberman logic is oozing out of your keyboard. He said he would meet with Ahmadinejad with no pre-conditions and now says he won't. That is the definition of a flip-flop. Especially since it happened over such a short period of time.

I also love how gpamp and all the other liberals use a Republicans change of position over the years as a flip-flop. Hell, by that standard I am a flip-flopper because I voted for Clinton and now would not. I guess I can't change my position after getting more knowledge and maturity becuase the liberals say so. LOL

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post #7 of 93 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 08:57 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gpamp
Reeeeeeeeeeeeach.

Not to mention... McCain once said that he would never try and overturn Roe vs. Wade. Now he is. For your records, THAT is a flip flop.
Imagine the angry hate-filled liberal not agreeing. I am shocked!

Do you still have the dreams about child molestation sick fuck?

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post #8 of 93 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 08:58 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Vertnut
He better be a flip-flopper, because he hasn't said much right yet. I'm beginning to think he's not the best candidate for the Dems.
Actually I am beginning to think he is the perfect candidate for the Dems. The perfect candidate to let McCain get elected!

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post #9 of 93 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99MustangGT
The definition of "flip-flop" would be: "To reverse a stand or position," or "Sudden reversal of policy or strategy," according to Merriam-Webster. From the title, you clearly want to make the point that Barack Obama has "flip-flopped" on his position to meet with the leaders of Iran should he become president. It's not clear in your post that Barack Obama has backed away from that position. In fact, if anything, the information you posted makes it clear that Obama has become more specific about exactly who he would meet with in Iran. It is a fact that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is not the most powerful person in Iran. Iran is controlled by its religious leaders who appoint the Supreme Leader, currently Ali Khamenei. The President of Iran is elected by popular vote by the people of Iran, and is technically a figurehead.
The Supreme Leader of Iran wouldn't give a spineless worm like Obama the time of day, unless of course it suited his agenda. And on the outside chance that Hillary got elected, you think a shameless, insubordinate female would be welcomed with open arms into the cradle of the Islamic Revolution?
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post #10 of 93 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 09:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by 90 Notch
Imagine the angry hate-filled liberal not agreeing. I am shocked!

Do you still have the dreams about child molestation sick fuck?
a) Everyone on this board knows how hateful you are.

b) You totally won that argument. You totally should've graduated high school. Damn the man.
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post #11 of 93 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by 90 Notch
Actually I am beginning to think he is the perfect candidate for the Dems. The perfect candidate to let McCain get elected!
I said that with my tongue firmly implanted in my cheek... He is inept and un-electable, in my opinion.

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post #12 of 93 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 09:15 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gpamp
a) Everyone on this board knows how hateful you are.

b) You totally won that argument. You totally should've graduated high school. Damn the man.
Yep, coming from the guy who uses child molestation, especially admittedly baseless accusations, as an attack calls me angry and hate-filled? Damn, I usually only see that from liberals!

Do you still have the child molestation dreams sick fuck?

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post #13 of 93 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpamp
a) Everyone on this board knows how hateful you are.

b) You totally won that argument. You totally should've graduated high school. Damn the man.
What does graduating High School have to do with it? Is this another way for you to fit child into your argument? You know school, kids, etc., you sure do like referencing kids under 18.
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post #14 of 93 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 09:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by 90 Notch
Sorry, but the Keith Olberman logic is oozing out of your keyboard. He said he would meet with Ahmadinejad with no pre-conditions and now says he won't. That is the definition of a flip-flop. Especially since it happened over such a short period of time.

I also love how gpamp and all the other liberals use a Republicans change of position over the years as a flip-flop. Hell, by that standard I am a flip-flopper because I voted for Clinton and now would not. I guess I can't change my position after getting more knowledge and maturity becuase the liberals say so. LOL
I don't use Keith Olberman's logic. I have stated before that I like Keith Olberman for how he bashes Hillary Clinton. I never said he was my mentor or that we shared the same views on everything. There isn't one person I share the exact views. Plus, my reply to your flip flip issue was factual, not logical. Your definition of flip-flop is inaccurate.

"Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama underscored his willingness to talk to leaders of countries like Iran that are considered U.S. adversaries but said that does not necessarily mean an audience with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad." (Caren Bohan, "Obama Says Won't Guarantee Ahmadinejad A Meeting," Reuters, 5/26/08)

"'There's no reason why we would necessarily meet with Ahmadinejad before we know he's actually in power. He's not the most powerful person in Iran,' Obama told reporters while campaigning in New Mexico." (Caren Bohan, "Obama Says Won't Guarantee Ahmadinejad A Meeting," Reuters, 5/26/08)"


In this statement you posted, I don't see the flip flop. Why? Because of this reason (see highlighted area). He did not say that he will NOT meet with Ahmadinejad. If he did say that, he would be considered flip flopping. All I see is that he wouldn't necessarily meet (not rule out) with Ahmadinejad until he knew his actual power in Iran.

Now, this is my logic.. As I stated before, Ahmadinejad isn't the head guy in Iran. Ali Khamenei is their Supreme Leader and he is above the president regarding political and government issues, including foreign and internal affairs. He has the executive powers over their military and any war and peace actions are overseen by him. Obama suggested in every statement you posted was that he would meet with the people of Iran, moderate forces inside Iran, and Muslim allies.

So with that logic, Obama doesn't necessarily need to speak with Ahmadinejad, he needs to speak with Khamenei. And since he didn't rule out meeting with Ahmadinejad, your flip flop theory doesn't stand. From Obama's (above) statement, it shows me that he knows who he needs to talk to in Iran, and Ahmadinejad isn't the big wig he necessarily needs to speak to.






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post #15 of 93 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 10:00 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
The Supreme Leader of Iran wouldn't give a spineless worm like Obama the time of day, unless of course it suited his agenda. And on the outside chance that Hillary got elected, you think a shameless, insubordinate female would be welcomed with open arms into the cradle of the Islamic Revolution?

If the Supreme Leader of Iran doesn't want to meet with "a spinless worm like Obama" then thats Obama's problem.

Fuck Hillary!
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post #16 of 93 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by 99MustangGT
If the Supreme Leader of Iran doesn't want to meet with "a spinless worm like Obama" then thats Obama's problem.

Fuck Hillary!
Why are you hard on Hillary, she is awesome, she is the best thing to happen to the Republicans this elections, LOL.
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post #17 of 93 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 11:56 AM
 
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What does graduating High School have to do with it? Is this another way for you to fit child into your argument? You know school, kids, etc., you sure do like referencing kids under 18.
Actually... I was pointing out the juvenile idiocy that spews from 90's fingers. Are you saying there's a link between kids and 90's fingers?
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post #18 of 93 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 03:11 PM
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Actually... I was pointing out the juvenile idiocy that spews from 90's fingers. Are you saying there's a link between kids and 90's fingers?
He didn't reference High School you did.
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post #19 of 93 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 03:12 PM
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Yo gtampon, whose ass is black now?
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post #20 of 93 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 03:47 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gpamp
Actually... I was pointing out the juvenile idiocy that spews from 90's fingers. Are you saying there's a link between kids and 90's fingers?
Great response sick fuck. I bet people don't wonder anymore where I came up thinking you were a sick fuck.

Do you still have the dreams about child molestation sick fuck?

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post #21 of 93 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 03:50 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 99MustangGT
I don't use Keith Olberman's logic. I have stated before that I like Keith Olberman for how he bashes Hillary Clinton. I never said he was my mentor or that we shared the same views on everything. There isn't one person I share the exact views. Plus, my reply to your flip flip issue was factual, not logical. Your definition of flip-flop is inaccurate.

"Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama underscored his willingness to talk to leaders of countries like Iran that are considered U.S. adversaries but said that does not necessarily mean an audience with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad." (Caren Bohan, "Obama Says Won't Guarantee Ahmadinejad A Meeting," Reuters, 5/26/08)

"'There's no reason why we would necessarily meet with Ahmadinejad before we know he's actually in power. He's not the most powerful person in Iran,' Obama told reporters while campaigning in New Mexico." (Caren Bohan, "Obama Says Won't Guarantee Ahmadinejad A Meeting," Reuters, 5/26/08)"


In this statement you posted, I don't see the flip flop. Why? Because of this reason (see highlighted area). He did not say that he will NOT meet with Ahmadinejad. If he did say that, he would be considered flip flopping. All I see is that he wouldn't necessarily meet (not rule out) with Ahmadinejad until he knew his actual power in Iran.

Now, this is my logic.. As I stated before, Ahmadinejad isn't the head guy in Iran. Ali Khamenei is their Supreme Leader and he is above the president regarding political and government issues, including foreign and internal affairs. He has the executive powers over their military and any war and peace actions are overseen by him. Obama suggested in every statement you posted was that he would meet with the people of Iran, moderate forces inside Iran, and Muslim allies.

So with that logic, Obama doesn't necessarily need to speak with Ahmadinejad, he needs to speak with Khamenei. And since he didn't rule out meeting with Ahmadinejad, your flip flop theory doesn't stand. From Obama's (above) statement, it shows me that he knows who he needs to talk to in Iran, and Ahmadinejad isn't the big wig he necessarily needs to speak to.






OK, you say it is your logic, but it also happens to be the hard core left wing hater Olbermans logic. If you watched his show you should know it already. He is a mjaor Obama apologizer and Hillary hater also.

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post #22 of 93 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 03:50 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Vertnut
I said that with my tongue firmly implanted in my cheek... He is inept and un-electable, in my opinion.
I know, I was just trying to follow-up on what you started.

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post #23 of 93 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 04:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 90 Notch
OK, you say it is your logic, but it also happens to be the hard core left wing hater Olbermans logic. If you watched his show you should know it already. He is a mjaor Obama apologizer and Hillary hater also.
You're way off base. I state facts that can be proven. Logic vs Fact is different. If all you have is to call me a Kieth Olberman supporter then fine. But if you can't come back and prove me wrong then just stop talking. You're talking in circles so unless you can actually debate me, besides calling me something I am not to reflect off in your inaccurate "logic" of flip flopping, then continue but come at me with something harder than that.
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post #24 of 93 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 04:42 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 99MustangGT
You're way off base. I state facts that can be proven. Logic vs Fact is different. If all you have is to call me a Kieth Olberman supporter then fine. But if you can't come back and prove me wrong then just stop talking. You're talking in circles so unless you can actually debate me, besides calling me something I am not to reflect off in your inaccurate "logic" of flip flopping, then continue but come at me with something harder than that.
I really don't think I am off base, but we can agree to disagree. I will never be convinced that Obama did not flip-flop on his position of unconditional negotiations w/Iran.

BTW, do you think Olberman is a moderate, liberal, extreme liberal, or what?

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post #25 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 05:05 PM Thread Starter
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Hey 99, there is a question waiting. Are you gonna answer it?

"BTW, do you think Olberman is a moderate, liberal, extreme liberal, or what?"

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post #26 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-01-2008, 10:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 90 Notch
Hey 99, there is a question waiting. Are you gonna answer it?

"BTW, do you think Olberman is a moderate, liberal, extreme liberal, or what?"
I think Olberman is an intellectual giant.

And coming from someone that thinks Fox News is fair and balanced, I'm not sure your question holds water.
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post #27 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 09:31 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gpamp
I think Olberman is an intellectual giant.

And coming from someone that thinks Fox News is fair and balanced, I'm not sure your question holds water.
LOL, I should have known you being the hard core hate-filled liberal you would love Olberman the liberal hate-filled idiot.

Have the dreams about child molestation been modified to include beastiality and homosexuality sick fuck?

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post #28 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 09:38 AM
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In case you haven't figured it out yet, ALL politicians are flip floppers.

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post #29 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 09:40 AM
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O'Blama is a fake, he doesn't even know how to flip-flop.
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post #30 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 09:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by 90 Notch
I really don't think I am off base, but we can agree to disagree. I will never be convinced that Obama did not flip-flop on his position of unconditional negotiations w/Iran.

BTW, do you think Olberman is a moderate, liberal, extreme liberal, or what?
I'd have to read up on all his views before I could give you a legitimate answer. I do like Olberman because he bashes Clinton so well. He hosts a show, he's not a politician. You seem to ask me this same question in almost every thread I post in- not sure if you're trying to link me to him based on his views or what. But I don't claim a party and don't fall into either one. I have Republican and Democratic views depending on the issue. Ex: I am pro choice, pro death penalty, against gay marriage, pro guns, ect. I like facts and will base most of what I have to say off of them. The preacher issues, rumors, and the other non sense the media can scramble up to blow out of proportion on either McCain or Obama, I listen to it but don't take it seriously. I want to know each of their policies, what their plans are in office, and what they have voted for in their past to ultimately decide which one to vote for. And it just depends on the time. If I think we need more conservative values, I'll swing that way, and if we need to be a bit more liberal, I'll swing that way. It's like a check and balance system, IMO. It's not good to be too liberal or too conservative. That's just me though..

I do disagree with calling people idiots because of their views though. Everyone is different and believe different things- that's what makes this country. I will respect everyone's views even if I disagree but calling anyone an idiot because they're voting for someone different than you are is not cool to me.

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post #31 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 10:39 AM
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post #32 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sgt Beavis
In case you haven't figured it out yet, ALL politicians are flip floppers.
While I tend to agree, I still don't define a change in position over the years as a flip-flop. I call the classic flip-flop the politician who changes position in mid-sentence or even in a few hours or days. What do you think, just curious.

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post #33 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 99MustangGT
I'd have to read up on all his views before I could give you a legitimate answer.
I thought you had seen enough of his show to form an opinion. Didn't you give an opinion of Fox News and you have watched a whole lot less of that channel than you have of Olberman, correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 99MustangGT
I do like Olberman because he bashes Clinton so well. He hosts a show, he's not a politician. You seem to ask me this same question in almost every thread I post in- not sure if you're trying to link me to him based on his views or what. But I don't claim a party and don't fall into either one. I have Republican and Democratic views depending on the issue. Ex: I am pro choice, pro death penalty, against gay marriage, pro guns, ect.
You really do sem to be moderate with those views, no doubt. We are very similar, except that I am not pro-abortion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 99MustangGT
I like facts and will base most of what I have to say off of them. The preacher issues, rumors, and the other non sense the media can scramble up to blow out of proportion on either McCain or Obama, I listen to it but don't take it seriously.
Do you really think the issue of preachers with Obama and McCain are the same? I thought McCain had never been inside Hagey's (sp) church and that Obama had attended Wright's church and used the Catholic priest (Phlege???) and Wright as spiritual advisors. I see the Obama issue as one of poor judgment on a huge scale while McCain was one where a supporter, solicited or not, said hateful and terrible things. I am no really big fan of McCain either, but he is a better choice than either of the Dems IMO. I would not hold Obama accountable if someone who had endorsed him w/little or no relationship had been a terrible person who said terrible things. I saw the posters in his campaign offices and I thought it was an unfair attack on him for some workers making poor choices and I thought it was no something that should reflect on him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 99MustangGT
I want to know each of their policies, what their plans are in office, and what they have voted for in their past to ultimately decide which one to vote for. And it just depends on the time. If I think we need more conservative values, I'll swing that way, and if we need to be a bit more liberal, I'll swing that way. It's like a check and balance system, IMO. It's not good to be too liberal or too conservative. That's just me though..
Fair enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 99MustangGT
I do disagree with calling people idiots because of their views though. Everyone is different and believe different things- that's what makes this country. I will respect everyone's views even if I disagree but calling anyone an idiot because they're voting for someone different than you are is not cool to me.
I think Olberman is an idiot because I have seen stories on CNN, Fox, and the regular news shows that have slightly liberal or a moderate slant to them and when Olberman talks about the issue, he takes off a horribly hard core left rant or lobs easy questions at his very liberal guests. I really dislike the short haired female from Air America that he routinley does this tactic with especially. He is a hypocrite for claiming Fox is so biased while he is by far the most liberally slanted host I have ever watched with any regularity. It is just my opinion though.

I must say I am very surprised at how people can have a solid opinion of Fox News being conservatively biased from limited exposure and then decide they need more exposure to liberal hosts/shows/networks they claim to watch more frequently before issuing an opinion. Interesting....

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post #34 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 12:14 PM
 
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I don't know which pastor is worse than the other and I really do not care. As I have mentioned before that I don't think either candidate believes the same extreme views that their pastors do. All these pastors that are in the news, to me, are nut cases so nothing they say holds a lot of water. I think Fox News can be biased but I never said Olberman isn't biased. He is very much biased because he's a Democrat. There are other show hosts that are Republican that I really like too. I take a piece of what they all say and put together what makes sense to me. It's like hearing both sides of a story and making your own judgement.
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post #35 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 12:25 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 99MustangGT
I don't know which pastor is worse than the other and I really do not care. As I have mentioned before that I don't think either candidate believes the same extreme views that their pastors do. All these pastors that are in the news, to me, are nut cases so nothing they say holds a lot of water. I think Fox News can be biased but I never said Olberman isn't biased. He is very much biased because he's a Democrat. There are other show hosts that are Republican that I really like too. I take a piece of what they all say and put together what makes sense to me. It's like hearing both sides of a story and making your own judgement.
I was not talking about the pastors, I was talking about the candidates being held accountable for the pastors words and the candidates ties to the pastors. I agree all 3 of the pastors are disgusting. Do you think McCain has as much to explain for an endorsement of a terrible pastor as Obama does for sitting in that church for 20 years, having the terrible pastor marry he and his wife, and baptizing his children, bringing him to his announcment for running for President and then deciding he was not a wise choice for an active part of the ceremony (why bring him in the forst place?), sitting through all those hate-filled terrible sermons, then staying with him after the speeches were found, and then only distancing himself after it became apparent it would hurt his chances for winning?

I really don't understand that logic, focusing in on the pastors action and ignoring the actions of the candidates. Obamas 20+ year poor choice on this isue is my concern, not that there are hate-filled pastors out there. I cannot imagine justifying Obama making the hard choices required of my President when he has made such poor choices in his life.

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post #36 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 12:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 90 Notch
I was not talking about the pastors, I was talking about the candidates being held accountable for the pastors words and the candidates ties to the pastors. I agree all 3 of the pastors are disgusting. Do you think McCain has as much to explain for an endorsement of a terrible pastor as Obama does for sitting in that church for 20 years, having the terrible pastor marry he and his wife, and baptizing his children, bringing him to his announcment for running for President and then deciding he was not a wise choice for an active part of the ceremony (why bring him in the forst place?), sitting through all those hate-filled terrible sermons, then staying with him after the speeches were found, and then only distancing himself after it became apparent it would hurt his chances for winning?

I really don't understand that logic, focusing in on the pastors action and ignoring the actions of the candidates. Obamas 20+ year poor choice on this isue is my concern, not that there are hate-filled pastors out there. I cannot imagine justifying Obama making the hard choices required of my President when he has made such poor choices in his life.

The pastor issue just doesn't bother me for either candidate. If they agreed with them, I would have a problem but they don't. I wasn't sitting next to Barack in church or McCain. I have no clue what went on in the church service everyday for either pastor besides what I see over and over on tv. I can't say rather one of the pastors are worse than the other or if the candidate should be held responsible because I am not a Catholic, I wasn't effected by Katrina, I am not gay, I am not a Jew, I am not black, as far as I know there were no experiments tested on anyone that I've known, and ect. Yes, I am white and maybe some of the white comments should have bothered me but they don't because I've heard the same shit a million times in my 25 years. People view the world differently and believe different ways of God than I do. So, I don't even go there with the pastor subject because it's endless. I doubt either candidate can stop their pastor from saying things that they personally don't believe in. There is racism and prejudice views on everything but there's also freedom of speech and freedom to worship almost anything you want to. As long as someone isn't hurting people, I don't care. So, it's not my place to say which pastor is worse or which candidate should be held resposible for their pastor.. that can only be in each person's own view. I haven't experienced walking in any other person's shoes besides my own. What Wright and Hagee said was all ridiculous personally to me but if that's how they see things then so be it. Who am I to judge?! I don't mix religion with politics as best as I can for this reason and that goes back to one of the main reasons what our country was founded on, seperation of church and state.

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post #37 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 99MustangGT
The pastor issue just doesn't bother me for either candidate. If they agreed with them, I would have a problem but they don't. I wasn't sitting next to Barack in church or McCain. I have no clue what went on in the church service everyday for either pastor besides what I see over and over on tv. I can't say rather one of the pastors are worse than the other or if the candidate should be held responsible because I am not a Catholic, I wasn't effected by Katrina, I am not gay, I am not a Jew, I am not black, as far as I know there were no experiments tested on anyone that I've known, and ect. Yes, I am white and maybe some of the white comments should have bothered me but they don't because I've heard the same shit a million times in my 25 years. People view the world differently and believe different ways of God than I do. So, I don't even go there with the pastor subject because it's endless. I doubt either candidate can stop their pastor from saying things that they personally don't believe in. There is racism and prejudice views on everything but there's also freedom of speech and freedom to worship almost anything you want to. As long as someone isn't hurting people, I don't care. So, it's not my place to say which pastor is worse or which candidate should be held resposible for their pastor.. that can only be in each person's own view. I haven't experienced walking in any other person's shoes besides my own. What Wright and Hagee said was all ridiculous personally to me but if that's how they see things then so be it. Who am I to judge?! I don't mix religion with politics as best as I can for this reason and that goes back to one of the main reasons what our country was founded on, seperation of church and state.
So you don't equate Obama sitting in the church listening to those hateful, bigoted, and anti-Israeli views as tacitly agreeing with them? I mean, when I saw the parishoners listening to Wright and the priest spewing their hate I sure didn't see anyone walk out. I pretty much think by sitting by and listening to it for 20 years you gave tacit apporval of the content, wouldn't you?

I often ask people, when this issue comes up in conversation, if they heard those things in their church if they would stay as a member. I have never heard anyone say they would stay, yet Obama did for 20 years. Why is that? Would you belong to a church where the pastor said those hateful things? If not, why didn't Obama have the same wise decision making ability you have?

Again, this isn't about hateful pastors speech/sermons per se, it is about Obamas poor decision to stay as a memebr of the church and have the pastors as spiritual advisors while he was a Senator and part of the time he was a candidate for President.

It seems to me that you keep ignoring the issue of Obama's lack of character and poor decisions for staying at the church for 20 years and only disassociating himself from the pastors once he got close to the nomination. Why did the media have to point out how awful his pastors were? Why didn't he figure it out before he chose Wright to marry he and his wife or baptize his children? These are the questions I have about Obamas lack of character and poor decison making.

The pastors have the right to spew hate if they want and the parishoners who jump up and celebrate at the hateful words have the right to do that, but when someone who attended those types of churches asks me to vote for him/her, I have the right to ask why he made that poor choice, shouldn't we all?

You really lose me when you say you have no idea if Obama agreed with Wright or the priest when he knew them for 20 years, used them as advisors, and only disassociated with them after he got heat about it. I say Obama agreed with those pastors for 20 years. I am just waiting for video to surface of Obama nodding in approval, standing up and clapping, or saying Amen! at one of the hateful speeches. I wonder if that is what will be an October surprise for Obama and his supporters.

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post #38 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 04:41 PM
 
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Maybe I should post new topic but quick question....?

Are there gonna be any "3rd" party candidates

I'm leaning more toward McCain, but is he is really moderate not very conservative.

Do we have any other choice or choices???
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post #39 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 04:42 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Turbo8
Maybe I should post new topic but quick question....?

Are there gonna be any "3rd" party candidates

I'm leaning more toward McCain, but is he is really moderate not very conservative.

Do we have any other choice or choices???
Write in RP! FTW!

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post #40 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 05:03 PM
 
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Hell if I know, 90, ask Obama. It's a bigger issue to you than it is to me so I don't worry about it. If you want to ask me a question on a policy that Obama or McCain favor, I'll be obliged to answer but I stay away from judging someone's church. I personally wouldn't attend any of those churches and I do understand your concern. Wright and Obama both have stated that they do not agree on the same political views, as well as McCain's pastor. But I am not going to judge either candidate because of a church or pastor. You want to go around and around with me on this subject but I keep telling you that I don't care about this issue, you do. And if you won't vote for someone with a pastor like Wright then that's fantastic, seriously. You need to vote for whoever connects with you the best.
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post #41 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 05:22 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 99MustangGT
Hell if I know, 90, ask Obama. It's a bigger issue to you than it is to me so I don't worry about it. If you want to ask me a question on a policy that Obama or McCain favor, I'll be obliged to answer but I stay away from judging someone's church. I personally wouldn't attend any of those churches and I do understand your concern. Wright and Obama both have stated that they do not agree on the same political views, as well as McCain's pastor. But I am not going to judge either candidate because of a church or pastor. You want to go around and around with me on this subject but I keep telling you that I don't care about this issue, you do. And if you won't vote for someone with a pastor like Wright then that's fantastic, seriously. You need to vote for whoever connects with you the best.
Okay, but you keep calling the guy who endorsed McCain his pastor, when he never even attended his church. That seems like something Olberman would do, throw in something that just isn't true, ignore the points and facts, and hope it gets ignored.

I was also trying to make a bigger point, but I see you are catching on, so my point has been made.

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post #42 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 05:53 PM
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post #43 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 06:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 90 Notch
LOL, I should have known you being the hard core hate-filled liberal you would love Olberman the liberal hate-filled idiot.

Have the dreams about child molestation been modified to include beastiality and homosexuality sick fuck?
So... you're just going to tack on your "hate-filled" crutch of an argument to Keith Olberman?

Well, damn, if arguing is that simple, I should just mention that after reading this thread... if nothing else... you, 90 Notch, are a WORLD CLASS douche. You sound smarmy, elitist, and... like a douchebag. Keep it up.
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post #44 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 06:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 90 Notch
Okay, but you keep calling the guy who endorsed McCain his pastor, when he never even attended his church. That seems like something Olberman would do, throw in something that just isn't true, ignore the points and facts, and hope it gets ignored.

I was also trying to make a bigger point, but I see you are catching on, so my point has been made.
JESUS, you sound like such a douche, man.
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post #45 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 06:48 PM
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I hope Obama doesn't win. The end of the world is near! Besides I would like to see a clinton back in office. Then Bill can be back in oral office claiming he got the blowjob when we all know it was Hillary!!
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post #46 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90 Notch
While I tend to agree, I still don't define a change in position over the years as a flip-flop. I call the classic flip-flop the politician who changes position in mid-sentence or even in a few hours or days. What do you think, just curious.
I consider a flip flopper a politician that changes his position, not because he has learned new information but because it will get him more votes.

McCain's flip on the Bush Tax Cuts are an example. He only had that position change after he became a presidential candidate.

Another example is the entire Republican party's change of position on Ethanol. The party used to be dead set against it (McCain was against it too) They were against it because Ethanol never made any sense. It still doesn't make any sense but the Republicans pushed a 10% ethanol mandate through and let ethanol refiners have a $0.51 per gallon tax credit to boot..

But like I said, that is something ALL politicians do. So I'm not prepared to throw Obama or McCain under the bus for doing it I just wish McCain would flip flop on immigration.

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post #47 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 08:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 90 Notch
Okay, but you keep calling the guy who endorsed McCain his pastor, when he never even attended his church. That seems like something Olberman would do, throw in something that just isn't true, ignore the points and facts, and hope it gets ignored.

I was also trying to make a bigger point, but I see you are catching on, so my point has been made.
Lmao..

You make this thread about flip flopping, which your definition of flip flopping is incorrect, and I point that out to you. So, you then continue to ask me about Olberman, like you have done in almost every thread, trying to connect me to his Liberal Democratic views inorder to bash my response as just a Democratic view to your inaccurate flip flop thread. The only problem is, is that I am not a Democrat and my response was factual. When that didn't work, you start going into the pastor, "spiritual advisor" or "spiritual guide" issue when I've told you multiple times that I am not judging either candidate based on what some nutty pastor said but yet you still won't let it go with me. You keep replying to me as if I disagree with you but its not that, its that I am neutral on that issue. Now, you switch the topic over to me making up shit regarding the pastor situation- rather he's his pastor, spiritual advisor, however the candidates are linked to these pastors, I DON'T CARE because this isn't an issue to me! Olberman doesn't view the pastor situation the same as me. The Olberman comparison isn't working. The only one dodging the facts & throwing other crap out there hoping it gets ignored is you. Your flip flop attempt failed. If it helps you feel better to blame it on Olberman so be it.
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post #48 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99MustangGT
Lmao..

The only one dodging the facts & throwing other crap out there hoping it gets ignored is you. Your flip flop attempt failed. If it helps you feel better to blame it on Olberman so be it.
pssst... It means a lot to him if you let him call you a liberal too.

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post #49 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 10:04 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gpamp
So... you're just going to tack on your "hate-filled" crutch of an argument to Keith Olberman?

Well, damn, if arguing is that simple, I should just mention that after reading this thread... if nothing else... you, 90 Notch, are a WORLD CLASS douche. You sound smarmy, elitist, and... like a douchebag. Keep it up.

The opinions of a sick fuck really matter to people, so I am really upset.

No mention of deviant sexual behavior in this post sick fuck? Maybe the counseling is starting to work.

Do you still have the dreams about child molestation with beastiality and homosexuality sick fuck?

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post #50 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 10:06 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gpamp
JESUS, you sound like such a douche, man.

Geeeez, you are a sick fuck.

Do you still have dreams about child molestation and all the other deviant stuff you throw around so easily as intended insults sick fuck?

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