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post #1 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 11:15 AM Thread Starter
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Gas Prices

I'm spending an extra $1500/yr in gas just to get to work. I'm estimating that my grocery and restaurant spending has gone up just as much. Electric rates are pretty variable right now, but they definitely aren't dropping. I'll say that conservatively I'm spending another $3000/yr for increased fuel prices.

That is money that I can't save or invest. I don't care about gay marriage, or abortion, or even the war at this point. I want my $3k back!

I think it's time for a real discussion about how to manage our country's energy policy. Continuing to use petroleum products to create electricity is asinine. Drop the shit, let's build 500 new nuclear power plants and create nearly free electrical power for our homes and businesses. Aggressively work to get Americans travelling using electrical power. And in the short term, drill on our own soil and build new refineries.

Of course, none of this will ever happen, since politicians (ALL OF THEM) are banking off of oil company lobbying. All the crap about "environmentalists" keeping nuclear plants, refineries, and drilling from happening is just that - crap! The petroleum industries don't want excess supply or competition for their products. They can drive the market with the situation as it is now.

So ... with the price of a gallon of gasoline having doubled in two years, and ALL consumer product prices increasing accordingly, how are the candidates suggesting we get lower fuel prices? I haven't heard from them on this subject.

PS - DAMN I'm glad I didn't buy a diesel truck.
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post #2 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 11:22 AM
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The faster the prices go up the sooner they come crashing down.


On a side note I wish someone would develope a device to were we can plug locomotives into the power grid at yards when they are just sitting there running for days at a time. I've been to yards in our system were at any given day there are over 100 engines just sitting there. In case no one knew a locomotive is nothing but a giant generator. I think they should also plug in nuclear submarines and ships when they are at port in the U.S. Granted these things won't make a huge difference, but anything will help. Especially when its free electricity thats just being wasted.

TRAIN TRASH it's like WHITE TRASH but with money.

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post #3 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 11:23 AM
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the problem with nuclear power is the prices still wont go down. We have an abundance of coal to produce electricity and prices are high. The discovery of new natural gas pockets as well are sky high and we still have high prices. Like you said, I believe it is the government that is in really deep with our power/fuel markets.

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post #4 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 11:24 AM
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You won't hear anything meaningful from them because the oil companies are paying them all to not rock the boat.

And you can't build nuclear power plants, the environmental lobby won't let that happen. As soon as they find a way to extract power from puppy dog kisses and limp dick liberals we will be set.
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post #5 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 11:27 AM Thread Starter
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So can anyone really tell me why prices have gotten so high?

I mean.. there is obviously NO shortage. I haven't had to wait in lines - have you? Seems like there is plenty of gasoline and diesel fuel out there, so why is it suddenly worth so much? Demand has dipped slightly and production has remained steady - that should equal a price drop. Is there colusion on the crude supply side? Almost has to be. I don't think speculation alone can answer for the tremendous rate of increase.

Anyone else notice the nice .50/gal price increase in 10 days for Memorial Day Weekend? Thanks fuckers! Whoever you are.
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post #6 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AL P
You won't hear anything meaningful from them because the oil companies are paying them all to not rock the boat.

And you can't build nuclear power plants, the environmental lobby won't let that happen. As soon as they find a way to extract power from puppy dog kisses and limp dick liberals we will be set.
They're building a huge nuclear waste disposal site in the middle of the Sierra Nevadas. It will be able to contain 5,000 years worth of waste at current usage levels. It's 1500' below a mountain, in an area that gets 3" of rain per year. There is no measurable environmental impact whatsoever. Build those bitches!!
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post #7 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by 46Tbird
So can anyone really tell me why prices have gotten so high?

I mean.. there is obviously NO shortage. I haven't had to wait in lines - have you? Seems like there is plenty of gasoline and diesel fuel out there, so why is it suddenly worth so much? Demand has dipped slightly and production has remained steady - that should equal a price drop. Is there colusion on the crude supply side? Almost has to be. I don't think speculation alone can answer for the tremendous rate of increase.

Anyone else notice the nice .50/gal price increase in 10 days for Memorial Day Weekend? Thanks fuckers! Whoever you are.
SPECULATION... Hell even the Arabs are blaming our economy's speculation for the high prices. If China can buy oil at $130/barrel and have $2/gal...why cant we?

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post #8 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by 8mpg
SPECULATION... Hell even the Arabs are blaming our economy's speculation for the high prices. If China can buy oil at $130/barrel and have $2/gal...why cant we?
The Chicoms are subsidizing the fuel costs.

With our taxes as high as they are, there is no reason we couldn't do the same.

We need someone with balls that will just flat out run through the environmental lobby by throwing them to the wolves. "Fuel prices and prices in general are high because those cocksuckers won't allow us to do anything!"

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post #9 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 11:41 AM
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We need someone with balls that will just flat out run through the environmental lobby by throwing them to the wolves. "Fuel prices and prices in general are high because those cocksuckers won't allow us to do anything!"


I'd vote for you. Do it, Sean.
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post #10 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 11:43 AM
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I'd vote for you. Do it, Sean.
lol... Id love to see Sean in a formal office arguing for lower fuel prices and how the current officials are dirty cunt whores who need a big black dick in their ass

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post #11 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 11:43 AM
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SPECULATION... Hell even the Arabs are blaming our economy's speculation for the high prices.
Ding ding ding! Good to see you wising up after your post the other day.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mpg
If China can buy oil at $130/barrel and have $2/gal...why cant we?


I think they are subsidizing. Additionally, another factor is the tax per gallon. That adds something like $.30/gallon.
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post #12 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 8mpg
SPECULATION... Hell even the Arabs are blaming our economy's speculation for the high prices. If China can buy oil at $130/barrel and have $2/gal...why cant we?
Come on man... these prices have been climbing relentlessly for two years now due to "speculation." You really think there are warehouses of this shit just sitting, waiting for prices to get even higher? I ain't buyin it.

So when the "oil bubble" does burst, does anyone think there will be a gas/diesel price drop to 2006 levels? There will be some other excuse for why we need to pay $4/gal, such as refining capacity, etc.


So why aren't the politicians talking about this crap?
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post #13 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 11:46 AM
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lol... Id love to see Sean in a formal office arguing for lower fuel prices and how the current officials are dirty cunt whores who need a big black dick in their ass


Honestly, that's what this country needs. Some redneck (no offense meant, Sean ) sifting through the bullshit and calling it like it is. Got hungry kids in Zimbabwe? Who gives a fuck. We've got hungry kids in America.

Want to stop someone from running over your country? Grow a pair, and quit relying on the US to solve your fucking problems.



Too bad this country is full of a bunch of fucking pussies that won't let that sort of thing happen.
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post #14 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 11:47 AM
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So why aren't the politicians talking about this crap?


Because they (politicians) reside in the pockets of big business, and who is the epitome of big business?
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post #15 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 11:55 AM Thread Starter
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Because they (politicians) reside in the pockets of big business, and who is the epitome of big business?
Well, I like "big business." When companies are healthy, the economy is healthy.

What worries me is that so much is being spent on fuel costs that it is stifling businesses that thrive on people's discretionary income. Busineeses have to raise prices, so people are buying less for the same money.

At some level, this money is going into the pockets of.. (insert devious schemer's name here) ..and it pisses me off. I want to know what the plan is.
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post #16 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 12:00 PM
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Well, I like "big business." When companies are healthy, the economy is healthy.

Yep, and there is nothing wrong with that.

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What worries me is that so much is being spent on fuel costs that it is stifling businesses that thrive on people's discretionary income.
Trust me, I know first hand. Foodservice Industry is typically about 18 months behind everything else, so we aren't feeling it yet. People are still building like crazy. But it's coming.... Haley, for instance; is suffering quite a bit. With higher prices for everything else, people tend to stop spending money on luxury items/activities such as massages. It's killing her, and us.

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Busineeses have to raise prices, so people are buying less for the same money.
That's just the nature of inflation, though. I will agree that inflation is growing at an astronomical rate, though.

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I want to know what the plan is.

The plan? The plan is to pay $6+/gallon for gas. Period. Or ride DART. At this point, there is no alternative. Nor will there be one any time in the near future. Hell, I don't see one in the next 30 years.
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post #17 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 12:04 PM
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Come on man... these prices have been climbing relentlessly for two years now due to "speculation." You really think there are warehouses of this shit just sitting, waiting for prices to get even higher? I ain't buyin it.

So when the "oil bubble" does burst, does anyone think there will be a gas/diesel price drop to 2006 levels? There will be some other excuse for why we need to pay $4/gal, such as refining capacity, etc.


So why aren't the politicians talking about this crap?
The demand of crude oil undoubtedly has risen. Other countries like China/India are industrializing and the demand is higher. Reading an article the other day I read that many countries are pushing out hundreds of thousands more barrels of oil each day due to the high price. Might as well jump on the bandwagon and make some money. With say 1 million more barrels of oil being produced each day by these other countries the price of oil has not gone down. I dont think there is any shortage of oil, but rather the speculation of assholes and the media scaring everyone into thinking there is a shortage. I do think we need more refineries. With our current refineries running at 85% or so daily, we obviously have a high demand. Build a couple refineries to lower the demand per unit.

When the oil bubble bursts, no we will not go down to the days of $.99/gal gasoline due to higher world demands of crude. If our EPA wasnt so fucked up, we would refine heavy crude instead of the light sweet crude. Heavy crude is WAY cheaper. Also, coal could be refined into gasoline but it is not being done.

I really think some company needs to setup camp in some close foreign country (Mexico or something else in South America) and build a couple refineries and refine some nasty heavy crude. Import the gasoline and diesel, not oil.

Another reason I feel we have high gas prices is due to the fact that the Arab countries are supplies a shit ton of oil to the US. They also have their share in our refining companies. They are setting the price of oil and the refining process. They are double dipping on profits and there isnt shit we can do about it.

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post #18 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 12:09 PM
 
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One thing about inflation, is it usually goes up to where people can't afford it, so people stop buying it, then the prices get lower again.

The economic stimulus that was doled out is only helping inflation to keep going up, because I'm betting that the majority of people that got the check, will spend it on gas.
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post #19 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 12:10 PM
 
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The supply and demand is so high. The US is now competing with other countries for oil, especially China! Plus, China's yaun is increasing value while our American dollar is decreasing in value. I heard that China is using like 80-90% more oil than they were 10 years ago. South America has decreased their drilling for oil like Mexico and Venezuela, causing gas prices to increase.

There are many factors right now playing a role. The only solution, that I can see, is to get off oil completely, at least as much as possible.
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post #20 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 12:13 PM
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post #21 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 12:14 PM
 
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Here is one link I found regarding my previous post..
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...,1651403.story

I have to agree with Obama on this subject. I think he has the best energy solutions. I have looked up McCain's suggestions and I can't find anything besides lowering emissions- maybe someone can help me with that.

Last edited by 99MustangGT; 05-27-2008 at 12:22 PM.
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post #22 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 12:16 PM
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There are many factors right now playing a role. The only solution, that I can see, is to get off oil completely, at least as much as possible.
Aint going to happen any time soon.

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post #23 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 12:22 PM
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Honestly, that's what this country needs. Some redneck (no offense meant, Sean ) sifting through the bullshit and calling it like it is. Got hungry kids in Zimbabwe? Who gives a fuck. We've got hungry kids in America.

Want to stop someone from running over your country? Grow a pair, and quit relying on the US to solve your fucking problems.



Too bad this country is full of a bunch of fucking pussies that won't let that sort of thing happen.
None taken
Here's my thing, if people don't want our help, fuck them! It's always been about us, so right now, let's make it allll about us. Quit sending supplies to the savages in Burma who don't want them and focus on us. As goofy as Ron Paul is, I'm really feeling that isolationism may be the best thing for us. Bring manufacturing jobs back in here, hit all the countries that are hitting us with tariffs and begin to rebuild this country into what it was and should be.

The twats on The Hill would freak out if I were there. I would make a point to let everyone know exactly what I believed - opposed to everyone else in D.C.

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post #24 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 12:30 PM
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I think they should also plug in nuclear submarines and ships when they are at port in the U.S.
I'm pretty sure they already do this, not necessarily subs due to security issues but when you see a massive nuclear powered aircraft carrier in port it's sending some power back into the local grid.

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post #25 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 12:30 PM
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Here is one link I found regarding my previous post..
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...,1651403.story

I have to agree with Obama on this subject. I think he has the best energy solutions. I have looked up McCain's suggestions and I can't find anything besides lowering emissions- maybe someone can help me with that.
Obama is an ass. How can you agree with anything he says? He is liberal by communist standards.

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post #26 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 12:34 PM
 
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Obama is an ass. How can you agree with anything he says? He is liberal by communist standards.
Lol. I am not a liberal but I do hate the dependency we have on other countries for oil.
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post #27 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 12:54 PM
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Especially when there is no reason. There is so much oil in this country and in this hemisphere that we don't need it from others. But the fucking environmentalist scream like Sharpton and the politicians gets quaky.

Here's an idea, take care of the people, not a group of attorneys.

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
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post #28 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 01:10 PM
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Anyone notice that crude has dropped in price a few bucks? It is sitting at $130 right now.

There are several easy things the government could do, such as dropping the EPA requirements for different blends of gas for different geographic areas for pollution. Make one generic 87 octane blend and ship it everywhere. And so on.

Of course the hedge funds and speculators buy and sell futures, driving up the prices. Impose a special sales tax/penalty on these activities if the future is not held until delivery, just like what happens when you pull money out of a 401k early. This will dampen the speculators but will not harm the organizations buying oil because they need it.
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post #29 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 01:51 PM
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Anyone notice that crude has dropped in price a few bucks? It is sitting at $130 right now.

There are several easy things the government could do, such as dropping the EPA requirements for different blends of gas for different geographic areas for pollution. Make one generic 87 octane blend and ship it everywhere. And so on.

Of course the hedge funds and speculators buy and sell futures, driving up the prices. Impose a special sales tax/penalty on these activities if the future is not held until delivery, just like what happens when you pull money out of a 401k early. This will dampen the speculators but will not harm the organizations buying oil because they need it.
I say that we should make it illegal to trade the contracts. If you buy crude oil for delivery on US soil, you take delivery. It presents all sorts of extra problems but it does away with a lot of this horse shit.

And Danny, there are stocks of oil but this is more of a problem with trading paper than trading the actual oil.

Don't worry though, it is going to blow the fuck up. It may take a while. If it gets high enough you will see people jumping out of buildings and shit, just wait.
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post #30 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 01:54 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, me. lol
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post #31 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 01:59 PM
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I say that we should make it illegal to trade the contracts. If you buy crude oil for delivery on US soil, you take delivery. It presents all sorts of extra problems but it does away with a lot of this horse shit.

And Danny, there are stocks of oil but this is more of a problem with trading paper than trading the actual oil.

Don't worry though, it is going to blow the fuck up. It may take a while. If it gets high enough you will see people jumping out of buildings and shit, just wait.
I hope so. Line the streets with wood stakes.

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post #32 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 02:08 PM
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Here's an idea, take care of the people, not a group of attorneys.



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post #33 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 02:17 PM
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I say that we should make it illegal to trade the contracts. If you buy crude oil for delivery on US soil, you take delivery. It presents all sorts of extra problems but it does away with a lot of this horse shit.

And Danny, there are stocks of oil but this is more of a problem with trading paper than trading the actual oil.

Don't worry though, it is going to blow the fuck up. It may take a while. If it gets high enough you will see people jumping out of buildings and shit, just wait.
I think your on to something they need to stop mesing with the blends. Give us back the old gas that got better mpg and was cheaper to make. The EPA has fucked us over for long enough Fuck Al Gore.
Get us of the corn E-10 And E-85 bullshit, and give us back the old diesel that was better for our engines.

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post #34 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 03:11 PM
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The only solution, that I can see, is to get off oil completely

That is nothing, and will never be anything more, than a pipe dream. You do realize that oil isn't just for gas, right? Do you have any idea what all we do that depends on oil?


I'm copying/pasting this from Matt in another thread....


Here's a "small" list of products made from oil.

Clothing Ink
Heart Valves
Crayons
Parachutes
Telephones
Enamel
Transparent tape
Antiseptics
Vacuum bottles
Deodorant
Pantyhose
Rubbing Alcohol
Carpets
Epoxy paint
Oil filters
Upholstery
Hearing Aids
Car sound insulation
Cassettes
Motorcycle helmets
Pillows
Shower doors
Shoes
Refrigerator linings
Electrical tape
Safety glass
Awnings
Salad bowl
Rubber cement
Nylon rope
Ice buckets
Fertilizers
Hair coloring
Toilet seats
Denture adhesive
Loudspeakers
Movie film
Fishing boots
Candles
Water pipes
Car enamel
Shower curtains
Credit cards
Aspirin
Golf balls
Detergents
Sunglasses
Glue
Fishing rods
Linoleum
Plastic wood
Soft contact lenses
Trash bags
Hand lotion
Shampoo
Shaving cream
Footballs
Paint brushes
Balloons
Fan belts
Umbrellas
Paint Rollers
Luggage
Antifreeze

Model cars
Floor wax
Sports car bodies
Tires
Dishwashing liquids
Unbreakable dishes
Toothbrushes
Toothpaste
Combs
Tents
Hair curlers
Lipstick
Ice cube trays
Electric blankets
Tennis rackets
Drinking cups
House paint
Rollerskates wheels
Guitar strings
Ammonia
Eyeglasses
Ice chests
Life jackets
TV cabinets
Car battery cases
Insect repellent
Refrigerants
Typewriter ribbons
Cold cream
Glycerin
Plywood adhesive
Cameras
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post #35 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 03:14 PM
No Cerveza... No Trabajo
 
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Speculators may actually be a saving grace this time. They've been net sellers while the commercials (those that sell and buy the physical commodity) have been net buyers. Although the numbers of contracts held long by speculators is close to 2:1 on those holding shorts.

There was an increase in contracts on an additional 615000 barrels last week for a total of 2.73 Billion barrels in the open interest.

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post #36 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
Speculators may actually be a saving grace this time. They've been net sellers while the commercials (those that sell and buy the physical commodity) have been net buyers. Although the numbers of contracts held long by speculators is close to 2:1 on those holding shorts.

There was an increase in contracts on an additional 615000 barrels last week for a total of 2.73 Billion barrels in the open interest.
explanation? I dont get it.

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post #37 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 03:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcoop
That is nothing, and will never be anything more, than a pipe dream. You do realize that oil isn't just for gas, right? Do you have any idea what all we do that depends on oil?
Yes, I realize that but I was mainly referring to fueling cars. It would decrease the supply and demand if we could build cars that used other ways of energy to run on besides fuel.
Not sure if the government could work with the car manufacturers somehow, some type of incentives or crack downs..

It may be a pipe dream, but one day we will run out of oil so it's better to start working on cutting back where we can before it gets to that point. It's better than living a nightmare of higher gas prices at the pump. Right now, I can afford the increase, but it will become a problem if it doubles in the next two years like it has the past couple of years.


Last edited by 99MustangGT; 05-27-2008 at 03:41 PM.
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post #38 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 03:48 PM
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Make it 15 bucks a gallon! Bring on the revolt!
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post #39 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 03:49 PM
No Cerveza... No Trabajo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mpg
explanation? I dont get it.
The futures market is broken up into two basic operators. Speculators who do not have oil and do not want physical delivery of the oil. The Commercials are corporations that either have oil to sell or corporations that have a need for physical delivery.

Speculators purchase a contract with the belief that oil will go higher and they can sell the contract prior to expiration. Speculators will sell a contract (remember they have no oil but they are selling it!) with the belief oil is going lower and they'll be able to purchase a contract at a lower price basically giving them a net-zero-position in the market. They have no use for the oil.

Speculators have been getting a little tired of the parabolic rise in oil prices and are starting to cash in. While they are doing it they are also selling the market hoping oil falls.

Typically you follow the commercial dudes because they know exactly what is expected. When the commercials and the speculators are in lock step (like has been the case this year) you get the parabolic changes you've seen in 2008.

Eventually, someone gets left holding the bag as buyers start drying up and the speculators don't want to be holding on to contracts for delivery. So... they start selling.

I also read somewhere driving was down like 4.8% this year in the States. Doesn't bode well for the oil bulls.

I'd say 138-145/bbl is the peak for this bubble. If it does break to the upside from that range... I can see 200/bbl. If the price breaks we'll most likely see 100/bbl again.

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post #40 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tealsnake93
Make it 15 bucks a gallon! Bring on the revolt!
Could we not schedule that during "American Idol" and "Survivors" please?

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand!
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post #41 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 09:35 PM
Lifer
 
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Title--Gas prices are high

response should be--no fucking shit!
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post #42 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 10:05 PM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
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That's not the title, you fucking moron.
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post #43 of 226 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 46Tbird
That's not the title, you fucking moron.
Ditto

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post #44 of 226 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 05:51 PM
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Holy cow

I need to stop betting with Silvercobra03 because I keep losing.
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post #45 of 226 (permalink) Old 06-02-2008, 07:20 PM
Time Served
 
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We are getting in the ass with gas prices!! No need to jump other peoples asses as well. We all should just say f it and ride bikes!! Maybe that way we would have less fat-ass people in America!
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post #46 of 226 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 12:03 PM
 
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that would get most of us off our fat, lazy asses and out in the world doing something, can't have that!
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post #47 of 226 (permalink) Old 06-04-2008, 08:10 AM
Lifer
 
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Oil has gone down $11 in a few weeks but gas keeps going up. What gives?

You can't fix stupid, but you can vote it out.

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post #48 of 226 (permalink) Old 06-04-2008, 08:21 AM
Lifer
 
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Oil prices do NOT control gas prices

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post #49 of 226 (permalink) Old 06-04-2008, 08:37 AM
DERP DERP DERP
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMax404m
Oil prices do NOT control gas prices
Yeah, but not having enough refineries sure dont help either.

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post #50 of 226 (permalink) Old 06-04-2008, 08:44 AM
Lifer
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMax404m
Oil prices do NOT control gas prices
Exept for when the prices are on their way up or there is a hurricane somewhere in the world "threatening crude supplies".

Speculators watch crude prices, not gasoline prices.

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand!
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