Nazi gasoline - DFWstangs Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2008, 10:49 PM Thread Starter
NOT the Oldest Fart HERE
 
jyro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Midlothian, Tx
Posts: 4,427
Nazi gasoline

fact or fiction?
http://www.totse.com/en/fringe/fring.../coal2gas.html

Texas A&M University researchers want to resume the study of
Nazi documents about producing gasoline from coal - a process that
they say may alleviate the United States' dependency on foreign oil.

More than 300 rolls of microfilmed documents dealing with the
process are stored in the university's library, but few have been
translated or read.

The documents detail Germany's research and development of 25
synthetic fuel plants from 1936 through 1945. The plants provided 90
percent of the Nazis' aviation fuel and 68 percent of the rest of
its energy needs, the records show.

Vangard Note...

After the war, the records were placed under a 30 year
moratorium from the public to prevent the sudden release of radical
technology which might disrupt American businesses.
*******

Texas A&M researchers began gathering and scrutinizing the
documents for practical application in 1975, but the project was
abandoned five years later.

Arnold Krammer, an A&M history professor, told the `Houston
Chronicle' that the documents also record the U.S. government's
short-lived synthetic fuel program.

Two U.S. plants, built in Louisiana, Mo., using Nazi designs
and technology, turned out 200 to 400 barrels of gasoline daily for
as little as 1.6 cents per gallon from 1949 to 1953, according to
U.S. Bureau of Mines records.

That project was shut down by President Eisenhower's
administration, Mr. Krammer, 49, said. "Without question, it was due
to lobbying by oil companies who didn't want the competition," he
said.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...914910,00.html

http://www.celsias.com/2008/02/20/ch...-within-weeks/
China has beaten the U.S. in getting a coal-to-liquid fuel plant built

http://pubs.acs.org/cen/coverstory/86/8611cover.html

Last edited by jyro; 05-07-2008 at 11:01 PM.
jyro is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2008, 10:58 PM
Aspiring Bean Counter.
 
Slowhand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Howard Johnson's Earthlight Room
Posts: 12,279
possibly, but then you're placing a lot of energy dependence on one fuel and there's also the efficiency of the project and the emissions released. in short, the clusterfuck that is american regulation will probably kill it before it takes off, but I'm excited to see what comes of this.

edit: that article was written 30 years ago

Slowhand is offline  
post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2008, 11:06 PM
Cummins > Powerstroke
 
8mpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: id rather be cummin than strokin
Posts: 19,068
very interesting to say the least.... I wonder if there is real truth behind it.

I just checked and $.019 would equal to just over $.16 these days...sounds about like gasoline. Gasoline prices in other countries are dirt cheap

2006 Dodge Ram Megacab Cummins
1969 Mustang Coupe
1969 Mustang Mach1
1969 Chevy C10
1966 Mustang Coupe
8mpg is offline  
 
post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2008, 11:06 PM
IA2
 
mikeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 22,413
We have a shitload of coal. It can be turned into a lot of things, including gasoline and other petrochemicals (coal gasification). It is an "alternative" fuel that is not in vogue right now, because it has the word "coal" associated with it. I expect that this may change in the near future.
mikeb is offline  
post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2008, 11:07 PM
Fear the lawn gnome
 
sleeperLS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: if you want it blown up let me have it.
Posts: 4,535
yep we are all fucked might as well get out the old horse and buggy. It will reach a point when we say anuf. But i dont see it anytime soon.

What you might call solitude is something i look forward to.
sleeperLS is offline  
post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2008, 11:10 PM Thread Starter
NOT the Oldest Fart HERE
 
jyro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Midlothian, Tx
Posts: 4,427
USA coal reserves

The USA has 275 billion tons, an amount that is greater than any other nation in the world.
jyro is offline  
post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2008, 11:15 PM
Aspiring Bean Counter.
 
Slowhand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Howard Johnson's Earthlight Room
Posts: 12,279
Quote:
Originally Posted by jyro
The USA has 275 billion tons, an amount that is greater than any other nation in the world.
Alright, so my question just got completely shot down

I'm all for it...that and open up ANWR for drilling and our energy issues are solved for the time being.

Slowhand is offline  
post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2008, 11:28 PM
Censored
 
big_tiger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 3,699
Seeing all these "The answer to our gas price problem" makes me think the articles are put out there to make us think that there is a answer. So that way we don't worry as much about the price of gas now.

I think the "answer" is open more refineries here in the US, and drilling in the US.


Doors Done Rite
big_tiger is offline  
post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2008, 11:29 PM
Aspiring Bean Counter.
 
Slowhand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Howard Johnson's Earthlight Room
Posts: 12,279
Quote:
Originally Posted by big_tiger
Seeing all these "The answer to our gas price problem" makes me think the articles are put out there to make us think that there is a answer. So that way we don't worry as much about the price of gas now.

I think the "answer" is open more refineries here in the US, and drilling in the US.

I want that shirt!!!!

Slowhand is offline  
post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2008, 11:47 PM
Cummins > Powerstroke
 
8mpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: id rather be cummin than strokin
Posts: 19,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOHC
I want that shirt!!!!
x2

2006 Dodge Ram Megacab Cummins
1969 Mustang Coupe
1969 Mustang Mach1
1969 Chevy C10
1966 Mustang Coupe
8mpg is offline  
post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 01:07 AM
Censored
 
big_tiger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 3,699
They have some good ones.

http://www.shopmetrospy.com/cgi-bin/...hopmetro&pid=1



Doors Done Rite
big_tiger is offline  
post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 01:22 AM
Hero in a half shell
 
Fobra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Richmond Tx
Posts: 2,584
Check out their "about" section lol
Quote:
We don't have a problem with gays. They should have all the same rights as heterosexual men. They should be allowed to marry the woman of their choice.

We smoke cigars...lots of them. Adults who smoke too much sometimes get cancer. This is a risk they should be allowed to take.

Animals do not have rights. The ones that taste good should be eaten. The ones that are friendly should be kept as pets and the others, such as spiders and ants should be killed.

Genetically modified food could make lots of people rich and end world hunger. But because liberals hate the rich, the poor will just have to starve.

A few miles from here is the massive windmill farm just outside of Palm Springs. In our view, the windmills are ugly and the power they produce is an absolute joke. They should be melted down and turned into portable diesel generators or used to help form a dam or something.

All MetroSpy gatherings include massive amounts of red meat, fresh from the butcher. Select portions of dolphin, tuna, and manatee are also available from time to time.

Life starts at conception. If liberals were more honest with themselves they would advocate the killing of babies up until the child started preschool. How else would you really know if you want the kid until you have a chance to try him out for a few years.

Up until now, MetroSpy has been an equal opportunity employer. By being so fair and open minded, it turns out, most of our employees are minority. At last count their was only one White guy working here. At least we think he's White. Even the MetroSpy owners are Black. We're not sure how all of this minority stuff happened but we're now planning to rethink our non-discrimination policy.
http://www.shopmetrospy.com/cgi-bin/...hopmetro&pid=2

Fobra is offline  
post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 02:00 AM
Punk Ass Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: in a house
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by jyro
fact or fiction?
http://www.totse.com/en/fringe/fring.../coal2gas.html

Texas A&M University researchers want to resume the study of
Nazi documents about producing gasoline from coal - a process that
they say may alleviate the United States' dependency on foreign oil.

More than 300 rolls of microfilmed documents dealing with the
process are stored in the university's library, but few have been
translated or read.

The documents detail Germany's research and development of 25
synthetic fuel plants from 1936 through 1945. The plants provided 90
percent of the Nazis' aviation fuel and 68 percent of the rest of
its energy needs, the records show.

Vangard Note...

After the war, the records were placed under a 30 year
moratorium from the public to prevent the sudden release of radical
technology which might disrupt American businesses.
*******

Texas A&M researchers began gathering and scrutinizing the
documents for practical application in 1975, but the project was
abandoned five years later.

Arnold Krammer, an A&M history professor, told the `Houston
Chronicle' that the documents also record the U.S. government's
short-lived synthetic fuel program.

Two U.S. plants, built in Louisiana, Mo., using Nazi designs
and technology, turned out 200 to 400 barrels of gasoline daily for
as little as 1.6 cents per gallon from 1949 to 1953, according to
U.S. Bureau of Mines records.

That project was shut down by President Eisenhower's
administration, Mr. Krammer, 49, said. "Without question, it was due
to lobbying by oil companies who didn't want the competition," he
said.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...914910,00.html

http://www.celsias.com/2008/02/20/ch...-within-weeks/
China has beaten the U.S. in getting a coal-to-liquid fuel plant built

http://pubs.acs.org/cen/coverstory/86/8611cover.html

Okay Fact,
German scientists won the nobel peace prize sometime in the 1930s for producing a crude version of crude oil from coal. This version of crude oil yielded a low octane gasoline which proved to be a problem with performance in aircraft engines, This is why we now have Nitrous Oxide as a power adder. The Germans came up with the idea of using it to help the ME109 and FW190 climb when engaged in combat(emergency power). This only helped for short stents and was not a permanent answer for low grade fuels, This is why Germany invaded Russia. Germany as a country has very little petroleum but vast amounts of coal, Germany invaded Russia for the oil and refineries located at Baku. German scientists did what they had to do with the resources available.

Our economy is such now that no matter what energy source is tapped we the consumer cant afford the end services or products, What we need now is government regulation of the energy sector as a whole. Back in the 1930s all utilities were regulated because of price gouging, It stated that any utility deemed necessary to sustain life would do so at zero profit to the company. Here we are 75 years later and I cant afford my utilities because some rocket scientist felt competition would create lower prices for the consumer and deregulated the utilities. Now I pay $600+ to run ceiling fans, Lights and my TV. Privatizing the utilities gave them every excuse in the world to become greedy corporations which they have become, Corporate greed is what has caused our economy to faulter.
Get ready folks were headed toward the mother of all depressions!

Last edited by LeeH; 05-08-2008 at 02:07 AM.
LeeH is offline  
post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 08:27 AM
UNFUCKWITHABLE
 
Strychnine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Putting the sensual in nonconsensual since 1984
Posts: 12,482
FYI, it's called the "Fischer-Tropsch process".


It is economical as long as oil is >$30/bbl.

Montana's governor was pushing hard for this a while back.


Quote:
The governor estimated the cost of producing a barrel of oil through the Fischer-Tropsch method at $32, and said that with its 120 billion tons of coal -- a little less than a third of the U.S total -- Montana could supply the entire United States with its aviation, gas and diesel fuel for 40 years without creating environmental damage.
Montana's coal resources (#2 in the nation) are equivalent to 240 billion bbls of oil if converted with this process.
Tennesee has the equivalent of 1.6 trillion bbls of oil.

http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsst...2210/story.htm


.

Audentes Fortuna Juvat

Last edited by Strychnine; 05-08-2008 at 08:33 AM.
Strychnine is offline  
post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 08:33 AM
Aspiring Bean Counter.
 
Slowhand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Howard Johnson's Earthlight Room
Posts: 12,279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strychnine
It is economical as long as oil is >$30/bbl.
Well then I guess it's just not going to work, especially right now

Slowhand is offline  
post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 08:31 PM Thread Starter
NOT the Oldest Fart HERE
 
jyro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Midlothian, Tx
Posts: 4,427
Bs

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeH
Our economy is such now that no matter what energy source is tapped we the consumer cant afford the end services or products, What we need now is government regulation of the energy sector as a whole. Back in the 1930s all utilities were regulated because of price gouging, It stated that any utility deemed necessary to sustain life would do so at zero profit to the company. Here we are 75 years later and I cant afford my utilities because some rocket scientist felt competition would create lower prices for the consumer and deregulated the utilities. Now I pay $600+ to run ceiling fans, Lights and my TV. Privatizing the utilities gave them every excuse in the world to become greedy corporations which they have become, Corporate greed is what has caused our economy to faulter.
Get ready folks were headed toward the mother of all depressions!
As long as we are buying it, the price will continue to rise. A 600 $ electric bill is a lot more than fans ,lights and a tv.
jyro is offline  
post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 09:51 PM
Punk Ass Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: in a house
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by jyro
As long as we are buying it, the price will continue to rise. A 600 $ electric bill is a lot more than fans ,lights and a tv.
Thats running my central air at night(set at 78 in a 2000sq ft house), Off during the day. During the day fans and TV are the only items on other than appliances such as freezer, Stove(when needed) and hot water heater. I have fought high electric bills for the past several years, Everytime I try to make the house more energy efficient my bill goes up. We added 6 extra inches of insulation to my attic, Changed all lights to CFL, Upgraded my HVAC unit to an 18 sear and installed ceiling fans in every room. The electric company will not install a line recorder as requested, I have tried both TXU and Reliant with the same results. All my neighbors are in the same boat as me with some having higher bills than mine, My meter shows on an average of 3000kwh a month. Prior to the new "Easier to read" bill which broke the charges down individualy I was paying more than twice my energy charge in fuel surcharge, Thats a little excessive in my mind. I am on the verge of going to 12v lighting with batteries and solar panels, I am just affraid my electric bill will go higher again. LOL
LeeH is offline  
post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:02 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: South of the Red River
Posts: 3,332
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeH
Thats running my central air at night(set at 78 in a 2000sq ft house), Off during the day. During the day fans and TV are the only items on other than appliances such as freezer, Stove(when needed) and hot water heater. I have fought high electric bills for the past several years, Everytime I try to make the house more energy efficient my bill goes up. We added 6 extra inches of insulation to my attic, Changed all lights to CFL, Upgraded my HVAC unit to an 18 sear and installed ceiling fans in every room. The electric company will not install a line recorder as requested, I have tried both TXU and Reliant with the same results. All my neighbors are in the same boat as me with some having higher bills than mine, My meter shows on an average of 3000kwh a month. Prior to the new "Easier to read" bill which broke the charges down individualy I was paying more than twice my energy charge in fuel surcharge, Thats a little excessive in my mind. I am on the verge of going to 12v lighting with batteries and solar panels, I am just affraid my electric bill will go higher again. LOL
A Chief Executive Officer that keeps the major stockholders happy is very expensive.

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand!
black01gt is offline  
post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-08-2008, 10:05 PM Thread Starter
NOT the Oldest Fart HERE
 
jyro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Midlothian, Tx
Posts: 4,427
If your house is much hotter inside than it is outside

get some attic ventilation. I have yet to use the ac, day or night rightnow it's 71 outside and 75 inside with a nice breeze, why run AC?
jyro is offline  
post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-09-2008, 12:06 AM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: South of the Red River
Posts: 3,332
Quote:
Originally Posted by jyro
get some attic ventilation. I have yet to use the ac, day or night rightnow it's 71 outside and 75 inside with a nice breeze, why run AC?
And I refuse to turn it on in the car until it breaks at least 100'

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand!
black01gt is offline  
post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-09-2008, 12:09 AM
IA2
 
mikeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 22,413
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeH
Thats running my central air at night(set at 78 in a 2000sq ft house), Off during the day. During the day fans and TV are the only items on other than appliances such as freezer, Stove(when needed) and hot water heater. I have fought high electric bills for the past several years, Everytime I try to make the house more energy efficient my bill goes up. We added 6 extra inches of insulation to my attic, Changed all lights to CFL, Upgraded my HVAC unit to an 18 sear and installed ceiling fans in every room. The electric company will not install a line recorder as requested, I have tried both TXU and Reliant with the same results. All my neighbors are in the same boat as me with some having higher bills than mine, My meter shows on an average of 3000kwh a month. Prior to the new "Easier to read" bill which broke the charges down individualy I was paying more than twice my energy charge in fuel surcharge, Thats a little excessive in my mind. I am on the verge of going to 12v lighting with batteries and solar panels, I am just affraid my electric bill will go higher again. LOL
any possibility that your heating element is stuck on?

Observe the spinning of the meter while someone flips breakers. Isolate the circuit that is drawing the current. Something is way wrong.
mikeb is offline  
post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-09-2008, 12:53 AM
Punk Ass Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: in a house
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeb
any possibility that your heating element is stuck on?

Observe the spinning of the meter while someone flips breakers. Isolate the circuit that is drawing the current. Something is way wrong.
I have killed my disconnect to my HVAC unit and still have the same issue, I went to a tankless water heater which didnt make any difference either. I honestly think my meter is off but as long as its in their favor they dont care, I also have an attic fan thats on a t-stat. Its also been over 100 here already this year several times during the days and upper 80s at night, Reason I am running it at night is my daughter has been sick and keeping the house somewhat cool at night helps her.
LeeH is offline  
post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-09-2008, 04:20 AM
Canada is welcome here.
 
justinsn95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: ft worth
Posts: 4,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeH
I have killed my disconnect to my HVAC unit and still have the same issue, I went to a tankless water heater which didnt make any difference either. I honestly think my meter is off but as long as its in their favor they dont care, I also have an attic fan thats on a t-stat. Its also been over 100 here already this year several times during the days and upper 80s at night, Reason I am running it at night is my daughter has been sick and keeping the house somewhat cool at night helps her.
HA! speaking of in their favor, one time that bastard meter fucked up in my favor. For four months during the summer i paid a $5.13 electric bill. Took em long enough but one day i came home and i had a shiny new digital meter. No more cheap bill then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aksthem1 View Post
i think thedark1337 is a pretty cool guy. eh plays the game and doesnt afraid of anything


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chillaxed View Post
- later on when i was about 16 i suddenly came to the realization that i had zero appeal to women and i said "i'm going to say i'm gay from now on"
justinsn95 is offline  
post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-09-2008, 06:14 AM Thread Starter
NOT the Oldest Fart HERE
 
jyro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Midlothian, Tx
Posts: 4,427
2 or more disconnects for inside unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeH
I have killed my disconnect to my HVAC unit and still have the same issue, .
the inside unit has it's own set of breakers, different from the outside disconnect.
where do you live btw? get a portable ac and keep her room only cool at night.
http://www.brandsonsale.com/free-sta...ditioners.html
jyro is offline  
post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-09-2008, 11:52 AM
Punk Ass Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: in a house
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by jyro
the inside unit has it's own set of breakers, different from the outside disconnect.
where do you live btw? get a portable ac and keep her room only cool at night.
http://www.brandsonsale.com/free-sta...ditioners.html
Yep, Even with the breakers tripped in the box it doesnt matter. I have been inside the unit and the heat strips are not on, I do have a small window unit but It would take some work to install it in one of her windows.
I live in Odessa.
LeeH is offline  
post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-09-2008, 01:50 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Fort Worth, TX, Tarrant
Posts: 2,826
If someone would make some gas with coal and start selling it, it would take off like wild fire if it worked.
Big Thumper is offline  
post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-09-2008, 01:51 PM
UNFUCKWITHABLE
 
Strychnine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Putting the sensual in nonconsensual since 1984
Posts: 12,482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Thumper
If someone would make some gas with coal and start selling it, it would take off like wild fire if it worked.


"An entry level Fischer-Tropsch plant producing 22,000 barrels a day would cost about $1.5 billion, he said.

The Democratic governor of this Republican state said he had met with Shell president John Hofmeister, General Electric's CEO Jeff Immelt, as well as officials from the Department of Defense, and the Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railroad to discuss his proposals.

Schweitzer added that the recently passed federal energy bill includes an 80 percent loan guarantee for a Fischer- Tropsch plant."


.

Audentes Fortuna Juvat
Strychnine is offline  
post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-09-2008, 02:26 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Fort Worth, TX, Tarrant
Posts: 2,826
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strychnine
"An entry level Fischer-Tropsch plant producing 22,000 barrels a day would cost about $1.5 billion, he said.

The Democratic governor of this Republican state said he had met with Shell president John Hofmeister, General Electric's CEO Jeff Immelt, as well as officials from the Department of Defense, and the Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railroad to discuss his proposals.

Schweitzer added that the recently passed federal energy bill includes an 80 percent loan guarantee for a Fischer- Tropsch plant."

Sounds like a good investment for our gov. They could put the oil companies out of business.....then I woke up.
Big Thumper is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the DFWstangs Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome