American Civil War, please discuss - DFWstangs Forums
 
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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-29-2008, 12:32 PM Thread Starter
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American Civil War, please discuss

I don't remember ever seeing a good thread in regards to it.

Personally I find it amazing that so many people have no clue what it was about or how it's results are still affecting Americans today. All that I learned in school is that it was over slavery and the South lost.

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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-29-2008, 12:36 PM
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While slavery was the pivotal factor, the real fight was about protecting States' Rights, versus the further consolidation of Federal Power. It's purely academic at this point, but both sides have valid and interesting points. We're seeing some remnants of the States' Rights fight still in the Republic of Texas folks, a conflict that's inextricable from this argument.

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post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-29-2008, 12:38 PM
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Sadly, the Civil War boils down to this: a pissing match that spiraled out of control, with the Dred Scott decision setting said spiral into turbo mode.


Slavery would have died out on its own.

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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-29-2008, 12:47 PM Thread Starter
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I get a kick over people complaining about the war in Iraq being over oil, not even thinking about how the NE states have families that haven't had to work in 140+ years while several areas in the south have been in perpetual poverty ever since the end of the civil war.

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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-29-2008, 01:04 PM
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Eat the rich?

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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-29-2008, 02:24 PM
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The civil war is far from being about slavery.

However, last night on the news I heard 2 douchebags comment that any memorial dedicated to confederate veterans was a sign of support for domestic terrorism and some other bullshit the hippies spouted. This was all in an attempt to get the statute on teh square in Denton removed.
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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-29-2008, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmeabeer
Eat the rich?
Sure, why not? Rich being defined as a person or family that hasn't had to work for a living and can't remember a living relative that ever had to actually do anything to make a living but is still filthy rich.

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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-29-2008, 02:38 PM
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An now it will be foe V foe the final excitsticince of the white race America.

Say what you will but everyday we are become in outnumbers and or voice not
only not heard but whiped aside openly.

Where are Crackers, the white devil, and the reason for all probems. Never mind
unemployment and lack of the black race or raise there children I get so sick of the baby daddy crap. It's called being a father!

I my self refuse to pay for sins 200 years ago that "some" people can not forget.

Am I recist FUCK yes why because they are raciest to me fack if you question it?
head to south Dallas. Get out and ask directions.......at best you wake up in ICU.
There are peopl who kill with machetes women, children & men for power in Africa.

I've had family members raped for the simple fact they were at school.

We as a white people better find a way to stick together.

I am not sayin "white power" I am saying we will be in history books as evil
and they had ther reasons.

I'm 40 and the the amount of OPEN hatered to whites is stagering.

So to offend other races and there are exeptions but there few and you know it.

Gun's maybe an anwser but in the long run I see we would live in certian states
and they would have the rest.

We have allies do you think German, Austrial and even Spain, France would stand by................HELL FREAKING NO.

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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-29-2008, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BP
I don't remember ever seeing a good thread in regards to it.

Personally I find it amazing that so many people have no clue what it was about or how it's results are still affecting Americans today. All that I learned in school is that it was over slavery and the South lost.
So....

What was the war all about?

How does it still affect Americans today?

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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-29-2008, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jones4stangs
So....

What was the war all about?

How does it still affect Americans today?
Economics. The interesting part today is that the southern states are more powerfull economically than the northern "rust belt" states.
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post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-29-2008, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
Economics. The interesting part today is that the southern states are more powerfull economically than the northern "rust belt" states.
...and even moreso with the recent economic woes. Foreclosures in the rust belt are rampant.

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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-29-2008, 09:54 PM
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1Maybe you have problems with others races, because of the way you present yourself? I have been to north, south, east, and west Dallas, in cracker town, the barrio, and the ghetto, and never had ANY race problems. Then again, I don't go out all red assed with a big ol chip on my shoulder. Don't fault an entire race because a few race baiters try to keep the flames of racism alive.

You decry an entitlement attitude in part of your post, but then you seem to display that same entitlement attitude. MY wife and kids are JEwish. Most of my close friends are either hispanic or black. My grandfather fought against this type of racist attitude in WW2: it has no place in today's America.

As to your separation nonsense....how is that ANY different than what Farakhan wants? Black racist, white racist, purple racist........it's still racism, and it still sucks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cleanwhite92lx
An now it will be foe V foe the final excitsticince of the white race America.

Say what you will but everyday we are become in outnumbers and or voice not
only not heard but whiped aside openly.

Where are Crackers, the white devil, and the reason for all probems. Never mind
unemployment and lack of the black race or raise there children I get so sick of the baby daddy crap. It's called being a father!

I my self refuse to pay for sins 200 years ago that "some" people can not forget.

Am I recist FUCK yes why because they are raciest to me fack if you question it?
head to south Dallas. Get out and ask directions.......at best you wake up in ICU.
There are peopl who kill with machetes women, children & men for power in Africa.

I've had family members raped for the simple fact they were at school.

We as a white people better find a way to stick together.

I am not sayin "white power" I am saying we will be in history books as evil
and they had ther reasons.

I'm 40 and the the amount of OPEN hatered to whites is stagering.

So to offend other races and there are exeptions but there few and you know it.

Gun's maybe an anwser but in the long run I see we would live in certian states
and they would have the rest.

We have allies do you think German, Austrial and even Spain, France would stand by................HELL FREAKING NO.

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"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
Quote:
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post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-29-2008, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HookEm
1Maybe you have problems with others races, because of the way you present yourself? I have been to north, south, east, and west Dallas, in cracker town, the barrio, and the ghetto, and never had ANY race problems. Then again, I don't go out all red assed with a big ol chip on my shoulder. Don't fault an entire race because a few race baiters try to keep the flames of racism alive.

You decry an entitlement attitude in part of your post, but then you seem to display that same entitlement attitude. MY wife and kids are JEwish. Most of my close friends are either hispanic or black. My grandfather fought against this type of racist attitude in WW2: it has no place in today's America.

As to your separation nonsense....how is that ANY different than what Farakhan wants? Black racist, white racist, purple racist........it's still racism, and it still sucks.
You're fucking-A-right, and furthermore I've never understood racists. It just seems like too much work to carry all that baggage around. I once literally watched two of my uncles have a discussion about the finer points of what they opined to be the worst possible person on the planet, genetically speaking. They finally decided it was the hybridization of a "nigger ana jew."

EDIT: The truly amazng thing was that they had this conversation for over an hour.

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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-30-2008, 09:39 AM Thread Starter
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I also really like the fact that the democratic party was for the most part pro slavery and generally confederate yet today the black vote nearly exclusively goes to the democratic candidates. The KKK was originally a confederate insurgency funded and supported by the democratic party in Tennessee for example.

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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-30-2008, 11:31 AM
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post #16 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-01-2008, 06:52 AM
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The Civil War was over States Rights, not Slavery.

Midway through the Civil War, England was tempted to jump on the Side of the Confederacy. Lincoln then freed the Slaves knowing that England would never side with a country that supported slavery against another that did not. Technically the freeing of the slaves was a tactical move by the North to keep England out of the war.

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post #17 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-01-2008, 10:35 AM
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The Emancipation Proclomation did not really free the slaves. It freed the slaves in states that were in active rebellion, only.

"In September of 1862, after the Union's victory at Antietam, Lincoln issued a preliminary decree stating that, unless the rebellious states returned to the Union by January 1, freedom would be granted to slaves within those states."




Quote:
Originally Posted by Dacotua
The Civil War was over States Rights, not Slavery.

Midway through the Civil War, England was tempted to jump on the Side of the Confederacy. Lincoln then freed the Slaves knowing that England would never side with a country that supported slavery against another that did not. Technically the freeing of the slaves was a tactical move by the North to keep England out of the war.

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Quote:
"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
Quote:
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post #18 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-01-2008, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HookEm
The Emancipation Proclomation did not really free the slaves. It freed the slaves in states that were in active rebellion, only.
Self-contradictory statement right there. Which states did not secede from the Union but still held slaves after the emancipation proclamation?

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post #19 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-01-2008, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Zarathustra
Self-contradictory statement right there. Which states did not secede from the Union but still held slaves after the emancipation proclamation?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancip...e-1860Census-0

The proclamation did not free any slaves of the border states (Kentucky, Missouri, Maryland, Delaware, and West Virginia), or any southern state (or part of a state) already under Union control. It first directly affected only those slaves that had already escaped to the Union side, but as the Union armies conquered the Confederacy, thousands of slaves were freed each day until nearly all (approximately 4 million, according to the 1860 census[1] ) were freed by July of 1865.

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post #20 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-01-2008, 11:28 AM
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Reading is fundamental. See your local juco for American History throught the Civil war, USHIST101.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathustra
Self-contradictory statement right there. Which states did not secede from the Union but still held slaves after the emancipation proclamation?

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"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
Quote:
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post #21 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-01-2008, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Dacotua
The Civil War was over States Rights, not Slavery.

Midway through the Civil War, England was tempted to jump on the Side of the Confederacy. Lincoln then freed the Slaves knowing that England would never side with a country that supported slavery against another that did not. Technically the freeing of the slaves was a tactical move by the North to keep England out of the war.
That doesn't sound right. I doubt that you can separate the State Rights issues from the political slavery debates of the time.

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post #22 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-01-2008, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathustra
Self-contradictory statement right there. Which states did not secede from the Union but still held slaves after the emancipation proclamation?
Missouri and Maryland and West Virginia. You can dispute whether Missouri and West Virginia are actually states and when that became official, but Maryland is a solid example.

That on the 1st day of January, A.D. 1863, all persons held as slaves within any State or designated part of a State the people whereof shall then be in rebellion against the United States shall be then, thenceforward, and forever free;
...
order and designate as the States and parts of States wherein the people thereof, respectively, are this day in rebellion against the United States the following, to wit:

Arkansas, Texas, Louisiana (except the parishes of St. Bernard, Palquemines, Jefferson, St. John, St. Charles, St. James, Ascension, Assumption, Terrebone, Lafourche, St. Mary, St. Martin, and Orleans, including the city of New Orleans), Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia (except the forty-eight counties designated as West Virginia, and also the counties of Berkeley, Accomac, Morthhampton, Elizabeth City, York, Princess Anne, and Norfolk, including the cities of Norfolk and Portsmouth), and which excepted parts are for the present left precisely as if this proclamation were not issued.
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post #23 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-01-2008, 03:50 PM
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The Civil War was fought because Lincoln did not want to allow the southern states to secede.

The states that did secede (most of them, anyway) pointed to slavery as a key reason for it.

Read these declarations from the states. http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html

Mississippi: "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun."
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post #24 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-01-2008, 03:56 PM
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Damn that stupid war, if it wasn't for that.....i'd be owning me a couple right now.
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post #25 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-01-2008, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper
Missouri and Maryland and West Virginia. You can dispute whether Missouri and West Virginia are actually states and when that became official, but Maryland is a solid example. [/i]
Kentucky is a great example as well. Slavery wasn't totally done away with until the 13th amendment though.

The Civil War was fought because the Southern states didn't like to be told what to do by a bunch of assholes in Washington. Part of that was Washington dictating an end to slavery which would have destroyed the southern economy. Slavery would have eventually died out in the South even if there were never a civil war or even if the South had won.
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post #26 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-01-2008, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper
Missouri and Maryland and West Virginia. You can dispute whether Missouri and West Virginia are actually states and when that became official, but Maryland is a solid example.

That on the 1st day of January, A.D. 1863, all persons held as slaves within any State or designated part of a State the people whereof shall then be in rebellion against the United States shall be then, thenceforward, and forever free;
...
order and designate as the States and parts of States wherein the people thereof, respectively, are this day in rebellion against the United States the following, to wit:

Arkansas, Texas, Louisiana (except the parishes of St. Bernard, Palquemines, Jefferson, St. John, St. Charles, St. James, Ascension, Assumption, Terrebone, Lafourche, St. Mary, St. Martin, and Orleans, including the city of New Orleans), Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia (except the forty-eight counties designated as West Virginia, and also the counties of Berkeley, Accomac, Morthhampton, Elizabeth City, York, Princess Anne, and Norfolk, including the cities of Norfolk and Portsmouth), and which excepted parts are for the present left precisely as if this proclamation were not issued.
Thank you, sir, for not being condescending.

Other personalities are not so capable of having respect for those they do not know.

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post #27 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-01-2008, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by AL P
Kentucky is a great example as well. Slavery wasn't totally done away with until the 13th amendment though.

The Civil War was fought because the Southern states didn't like to be told what to do by a bunch of assholes in Washington. Part of that was Washington dictating an end to slavery which would have destroyed the southern economy. Slavery would have eventually died out in the South even if there were never a civil war or even if the South had won.
Forgot that one and Delaware.

I think tariffs were the main issues of the day, but slavery was definitely tied to it. The few wealthy slaveholders with large numbers of slaves counted them as a financial asset. After all, if your crop didn't do well and you didn't need the labor, you could sell off a few and still be alright. Turn the paid hands loose on a few of the girls and make some replacements.
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post #28 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-01-2008, 11:13 PM
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It's a two way street. You have to give it to get it. No logical person should assume you are capable of engaging in civil discourse. Im sure you'll either go cry to a mod, or send another ridiculous PM.

Get over yourself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathustra
Thank you, sir, for not being condescending.

Other personalities are not so capable of having respect for those they do not know.

color=#606060]
Quote:
"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
Quote:
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post #29 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-01-2008, 11:25 PM
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The civil war was pretty much inevitable as our Founding Fathers as well as each subsequent President and Congress failed to address the issue of slavery. Each and everyone of them backslided this issue, usually in the interests of forming a united to declare independence or to prevent succession, which ultimately led to the showdown on states rights to slavery after the Missouri Compromise.
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post #30 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-02-2008, 03:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HookEm
It's a two way street. You have to give it to get it. No logical person should assume you are capable of engaging in civil discourse. Im sure you'll either go cry to a mod, or send another ridiculous PM.

Get over yourself.
You should never, ever, again speak of logic as something you remotely understand.

I laugh at people like you.

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This will help everyone out, check it.
It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
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post #31 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-02-2008, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathustra
You should never, ever, again speak of logic as something you remotely understand.

I laugh at people like you.

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Quote:
"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
Quote:
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post #32 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-02-2008, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathustra
Thank you, sir, for not being condescending.

Other personalities are not so capable of having respect for those they do not know.
Typical whining, and typical lack of any knowledge regarding the thread subject. Go complain to a mod again Zurethra like the little biotch you are. You see what good it did you the last time, and the time before that, and the time before that LOL
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post #33 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-04-2008, 08:54 AM
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I keed I keed
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post #34 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-04-2008, 01:14 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dallas Area, Texas
Posts: 5,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathustra
You should never, ever, again speak of logic as something you remotely understand.

I laugh at people like you.
Seriously shut up, you manage to turn every thread here into a personal argument which is exactly why I deleted the thread on Bush. You made an ignorant statement in rebuttal to Hook em's Emancipation Proclamation statement so you get treated like someone who is ignorant.

As for the ramifications of the Civil War on present day America I would venture to say that it conspired less against the southern United States as did Reconstruction. The one time we truly tried for democracy following the civil war, we failed, when we allowed for poll taxes and other Black Codes. I don't feel that Obama is a good Presidential candidate but I am happy to see a quasi-black man is able to run for the highest office of our country. The KKK did nothing to promote democracy and the policies of Andrew Johnson during Reconstruction were the catalyst that plunged the south into poverty, learned helplessness and the lack of industrialization. I make no excuses for people of this day though, if you are unemployed or a criminal it is your fault not todays society or the society of days past.
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post #35 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-04-2008, 02:50 PM
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The saddest part of the Civil War was the horrendous loss of American lives, on both sides.
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