Because they hate: Notes from the Quran - DFWstangs Forums
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post #1 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-15-2008, 09:27 PM Thread Starter
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Because they hate: Notes from the Quran

IF anyone has forgotten, or seems mistaken, as to WHY 911 happened, why Islamofacists attack innocents world wide, here's a gentle reminder.


Notes from the Quran
The numbers on the left refer to the Sura (Chapter) and verse.
These notes were selected to reveal the truth of what is the actual teaching to
ALL Muslims. Like in Christianity and in Judaism, there are those who are more or less orthodox in their belief. These few verses should reveal enough truth to demonstrate that Muslims do not worship the same G-d of Christians and Jews, that their basic theology is to kill all who disagree with their faith.
Islam is NOT a peaceful religion being subverted by a few terrorists.
The terrorists are expressing the true essence of the Quran and of Islam.
[4:74] Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.

[4:76] Those who believe do battle for the cause of Allah; and those who disbelieve do battle for the cause of idols. So fight the minions of the devil. Lo! the devil's strategy is ever weak.
These two verses support suicide in the fight against Jews and Christians

[5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,
This directs Muslims to “punish” all who fight against Islam with death.

[5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
This directs Muslims to remain separate from both Jews and Christians.

[5:75] The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. And his mother was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat (earthly) food. See how We make the revelations clear for them, and see how they are turned away!
Is Jesus no more than a messenger?

[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
Not only to forsake them, but to kill them!

[8.59] And let not those who disbelieve think that they shall come in first; surely they will not escape.

[8.60] And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to frighten thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them, whom you do not know (but) Allah knows them; and whatever thing you will spend in Allah's way, it will be paid back to you fully and you shall not be dealt with unjustly.
No expense may be withheld from this “holy war.”

[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush,
Just more of the same!

[9.73] O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.
This says that all who are not Muslims are destined to hell!

The Surah entitled “The Children of Israel,” concludes with these words:

[17.98] This is their retribution because they disbelieved in Our communications and said What! When we shall have become bones and decayed particles, shall we then indeed be raised up into a new creation?
This denies an afterlife to Jews.
[17.99] Do they not consider that Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth, is able to create their like, and He has appointed for them a doom about which there is no doubt? But the unjust do not consent to aught but denying.
[17.100] Say: If you control the treasures of the mercy of my Lord, then you would withhold (them) from fear of spending, and man is niggardly.
[17.101] And certainly We gave Musa nine clear signs; so ask the children of Israel. When he came to them, Firon said to him: Most surely I deem you, O Musa, to be a man deprived of reason.
This declares Moses as a man devoid of reason!
[17.102] He said: Truly you know that none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth has sent down these as clear proof and most surely I believe you, O Firon, to be given over to perdition.
[17.103] So he desired to destroy them out of the earth, but We drowned him and those with him all together;
[17.104] And We said to the Israelites after him: Dwell in the land: and when the promise of the next life shall come to pass, we will bring you both together in judgment.
Only for judgment will Israel be considered in the afterlife!
[17.105] And with truth have We revealed it, and with truth did it come; and We have not sent you but as the giver of good news and as a warner.
[17.106] And it is a Quran which We have revealed in portions so that you may read it to the people by slow degrees, and We have revealed it, revealing in portions.
[17.107] Say: Believe in it or believe not; surely those who are given the knowledge before it fall down on their faces, making obeisance when it is recited to them.
[17.108] And they say: Glory be to our Lord! most surely the promise of our Lord was to be fulfilled.
[17.109] And they fall down on their faces weeping, and it adds to their humility.
[17.110] Say: Call upon Allah or call upon, the Beneficent God; whichever you call upon, He has the best names; and do not utter your prayer with a very raised voice nor be silent with regard to it, and seek a way between these.
[17.111] And say: (All) praise is due to Allah, Who has not taken a son and Who has not a partner in the kingdom, and Who has not a helper to save Him from disgrace; and proclaim His greatness magnifying (Him).
What then of the Son of G-d, Jesus


http://www.metroplexmessianic.org/Te...0Directory.htm

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post #2 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-15-2008, 09:36 PM
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post #3 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-15-2008, 09:45 PM
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You're all wrong, fat, stupid and ugly. Glorious Zara will grace our insignificant lives with his presence to clarify this as blasphemy.
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post #4 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-15-2008, 09:51 PM
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post #5 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-15-2008, 09:52 PM
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propogate your lies, proselytize the peaceful, increase the hate

Thus Spoke Zarathustra
---
This will help everyone out, check it.
It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
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post #6 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-15-2008, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathustra
propogate your lies, proselytize the peaceful, increase the hate
It's in black and white, yet you still need proof? Typical response...

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post #7 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-15-2008, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathustra
propogate your lies, proselytize the peaceful, increase the hate
It's in black and white, yet you still need proof? Typical response...

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post #8 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-15-2008, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathustra
propogate your lies, proselytize the peaceful, increase the hate
you didn't talk enough shit, I think you missed my previous posts about you.
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post #9 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 09:33 AM
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I know nothing about Muslims, but do they have an old and new testament as with our Bible?
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post #10 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 10:51 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Thumper
I know nothing about Muslims, but do they have an old and new testament as with our Bible?

The New Testament is in place due to the New Covenant with Christ. In the OT, you are saved by works(Sacrifices, etc).

In the NT, you are saved by grace.

Thats a SHORT Cliff's Notes version.

So no, there is no NT for the Quran.

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post #11 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HookEm
The New Testament is in place due to the New Covenant with Christ. In the OT, you are saved by works(Sacrifices, etc).

In the NT, you are saved by grace.

Thats a SHORT Cliff's Notes version.

So no, there is no NT for the Quran.
I didn't know if the terrorists were following an older teaching...like our old testament and it had been replaced per se as ours has.

Guess not. They just like to blow shit up.
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post #12 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 11:41 AM
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you should read some of the old testament!
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post #13 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Muffrazr
I would like to interject my thoughts on the original post. I'm not refuting what has been translated into English from their religious text. One thing I learned while researching old Texts is that you have to think about what life was like then, and the possibilites of coded words. At the time of a new religion's inception (When Islam was first starting out), it was important for the peoples of that time to be captured with purpose of some sorts. It could be possible that back then the perception of fighting against the will of others was simply to fight off all the other options of religion. Whereas today extremists read that to be kill those who don't beleive. Granted, this means we still have to protect ourselves from those extremists, but there are other Muslims who do not see it the same way. We can't go on a witch hunt for Muslims in an attempt at preserving our life. We have to be vigilant enough to understand them in order to erradicate the bad apples from within a seriously gentle, yet misunderstood religion. Keep in mind that the peaceful ones are only trying to hold on their beliefs, just as we do.
Here we go, someone trying to bring LOGIC and intelligence into the thread

This is dfwstangs, the political forum at that. We shit all over logic and intelligence with blined allegiance and ignorance, get it right!

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post #14 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HobieF3
Here we go, someone trying to bring LOGIC and intelligence into the thread

This is dfwstangs, the political forum at that. We shit all over logic and intelligence with blined allegiance and ignorance, get it right!
You're damn right...

Thus Spoke Zarathustra
---
This will help everyone out, check it.
It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
-Sam Harris
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post #15 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Thumper
I didn't know if the terrorists were following an older teaching...like our old testament and it had been replaced per se as ours has.

Guess not. They just like to blow shit up.
The Quran can not be replaced. Allah gave the Quran because man had corrupted the Torah and the Bible. It is a literal word from word dictate from Allah.
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post #16 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 12:01 PM Thread Starter
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I think the problem is defining what is an extremist. It seems that a Muslim extremist has become one who observes the "religion of peace" aspect, while the moderates are the Jihadists.

I dont think anyone is advocating going on a witch hunt, but we would be best served to be aware of the pillars of their faith.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muffrazr
I would like to interject my thoughts on the original post. I'm not refuting what has been translated into English from their religious text. One thing I learned while researching old Texts is that you have to think about what life was like then, and the possibilites of coded words. At the time of a new religion's inception (When Islam was first starting out), it was important for the peoples of that time to be captured with purpose of some sorts. It could be possible that back then the perception of fighting against the will of others was simply to fight off all the other options of religion. Whereas today extremists read that to be kill those who don't beleive. Granted, this means we still have to protect ourselves from those extremists, but there are other Muslims who do not see it the same way. We can't go on a witch hunt for Muslims in an attempt at preserving our life. We have to be vigilant enough to understand them in order to erradicate the bad apples from within a seriously gentle, yet misunderstood religion. Keep in mind that the peaceful ones are only trying to hold on their beliefs, just as we do.

color=#606060]
Quote:
"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
Quote:
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post #17 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathustra
propogate your lies, proselytize the peaceful, increase the hate
http://www.filecabi.net/video/iraqi_...of_bridge.html

That is the mentality of the animals we are dealing with. But you go ahead and keep lapping their balls with that educated tongue of yours.

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post #18 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 12:06 PM
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Wow...

Thus Spoke Zarathustra
---
This will help everyone out, check it.
It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
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post #19 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathustra
propogate your lies, proselytize the peaceful, increase the hate
What peaceful group are these "lies" aimed at ? Where are the lies?
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post #20 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by HookEm
I think the problem is defining what is an extremist. It seems that a Muslim extremist has become one who observes the "religion of peace" aspect, while the moderates are the Jihadists.
I'm sorry sir, but this makes absolutely no sense. It's so strikingly skewed I thought at first you were telling a joke. Is this how you really see it? If so, please further explain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HookEm
I dont think anyone is advocating going on a witch hunt
That's exactly what we've been doing for some time now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HookEm
but we would be best served to be aware of the pillars of their faith.
The pillars of their faith are the very ones that you employ in yours. The two religions descended from a common ancestor. Islam and Christianity are nearly the same in almost every single aspect. Come on, GeneralizeEm, people with such blind faith as yourself should know this kind of thing.

Similarities

Thus Spoke Zarathustra
---
This will help everyone out, check it.
It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
-Sam Harris
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post #21 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
What peaceful group are these "lies" aimed at ? Where are the lies?
Us. Everybody. Me. And You.

The lies are in that text that GeneralizeEm posted, most of that stuff is either completely fabricated or just spun and twisted to fit and spread and propagate this larger lie that they've been telling us so we can and will all have this mentality. Not me.

Thus Spoke Zarathustra
---
This will help everyone out, check it.
It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
-Sam Harris
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post #22 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 12:30 PM
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Similarities are not what is important...its the differences. They obviously have found enough differences to convince themselves its worth blowing America up.
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post #23 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathustra

The pillars of their faith are the very ones that you employ in yours. The two religions descended from a common ancestor. Islam and Christianity are nearly the same in almost every single aspect. Come on, GeneralizeEm, people with such blind faith as yourself should know this kind of thing.
true, but they seem to have skipped a reformation period. The bible talks about stoning people for a variety of offenses - homosexuality and adultery - but we don't have churches (other than the fringe "God Hates Fags" crew) that really take it literally.
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post #24 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 12:38 PM
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true, but they seem to have skipped a reformation period. The bible talks about stoning people for a variety of offenses - homosexuality and adultery - but we don't have churches (other than the fringe "God Hates Fags" crew) that really take it literally.
Oh. Ok, so christianity is the humanitarian Islam. Is that what you say?

Thus Spoke Zarathustra
---
This will help everyone out, check it.
It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
-Sam Harris
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post #25 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Thumper
Similarities are not what is important...its the differences. They obviously have found enough differences to convince themselves its worth blowing America up.
Like what? Have they? They're fed as many lies as we are, if not more.

Thus Spoke Zarathustra
---
This will help everyone out, check it.
It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
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post #26 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 12:52 PM
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Oh. Ok, so christianity is the humanitarian Islam. Is that what you say?

how about "More Humanitarian Islam?" or maybe even "Liberal Islam?"
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post #27 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 12:56 PM
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Funny how people infer how violent the OT was, yet they neglect the fact that the NT overrides things in the OT.

To HookEm's point, Islam does not have a NT.

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post #28 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathustra
Us. Everybody. Me. And You.

The lies are in that text that GeneralizeEm posted, most of that stuff is either completely fabricated or just spun and twisted to fit and spread and propagate this larger lie that they've been telling us so we can and will all have this mentality. Not me.
So we are all peaceful? Then who is doing the converting you were talking about? Do you have a photographic memory that allows you to pick out the inconsistencies in the posted text when compared with the true text that you have apparently memorized? Is the "larger lie" that there are fundamental muslims who follow some of the most hate filled and harshest religious teachings ? Is the "larger lie", that there are people still killing mass quantities of innocent people in the name of a religion in this century?
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post #29 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Zarathustra
Like what? Have they? They're fed as many lies as we are, if not more.

I'm not Muslim, so I have no idea. You point out how our religions are similar...I say it doesn't matter. If it did, they wouldn't be blowing us up in the name of Allah. It is obvious the differences are what matter...what they are....see my first sentence.

True, they are fed a lot of lies. We are the ones that have to deal with their lies and beliefs though. We are their target.

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post #30 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 01:43 PM
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Like what? Have they? They're fed as many lies as we are, if not more.

I think these gals were fed some lies....

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post #31 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 06:24 PM
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So we are all peaceful?
What is moral about war? It's not like we're hard-wired to foster conflict. What's so wrong with secular dogoodery?


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Originally Posted by Jimbo
Then who is doing the converting you were talking about?
The mega-powerful elite, many of whom own and greedily operate large media outlets and corporations. The media has become the easiest and quickest way to violently sway public opinion. You can not absorb any information anymore from any news network without having the interests and spin of the person in charge of the particular media conglomerate imposed on you.

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Originally Posted by Jimbo
Do you have a photographic memory that allows you to pick out the inconsistencies in the posted text when compared with the true text that you have apparently memorized?
Absolutely not. I have checked some of those passages in the past. I don't speak Arabic, so I can't really translate the original text into English from Arabic, which would be the best and most accurate way of doing this. By the sound of the text and the nature of the words' content, I can tell that whoever translated that doctored it up quite a bit. The only reason for this is to advance hatred and intolerance of different viewpoints.

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Originally Posted by Jimbo
Is the "larger lie" that there are fundamental muslims who follow some of the most hate filled and harshest religious teachings ?
That is arguably true, however, the distinction that does not follow logically but is constantly pumped out by big media is one that separates radical fundamentalism in Islam from radical fundamentalism in all other religions. The increase of fundamentalism is inherent in all contemporary religions. The way I see it, is it's a proverbial calm before the storm for those that foresee an end to their suffering in the coming of their particular prophet. I overwhelmingly feel like the latter part of my lifetime will see the downfall of religion as a whole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
Is the "larger lie", that there are people still killing mass quantities of innocent people in the name of a religion in this century?
Partly true, in that the notion that genocide on grounds of religious and ethnic grouping still continues to be a part of daily life for some people on this earth. Intolerance, xenophobia, racism, and and ethnocentricism only make us take steps in the wrong direction, backward. Equality, Love, Brotherhood, Hope for a better future should be what we strive toward in our time on this planet, and instead we let our own economic self-interest get the better of us, in short, greed. The larger lie is that these people are smearing facts from the other side of the world to further their own agendas, to line their own pockets and the pockets of their constituencies with your hard-earned dollars. Some of what they say may be true by many accounts, but there is always two sides to any story, why is this one any different?

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It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
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post #32 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by stinginstang
I think these gals were fed some lies....

Hotties...

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It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
-Sam Harris
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post #33 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 06:40 PM
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(Judges 21:10-24 NLT)



So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.



The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse."



Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.
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Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
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They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
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But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
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If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
Quote:
Psalms 79:6: "Pour out thy wrath upon the heathen that have not known thee, and upon the kingdoms that have not called upon thy name."
Quote:
Revelation 2:9: "I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."

I know Jesus is your new best friend, but your book calls for just as much murder and mayhem you blind ignoramus.
SS

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post #34 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Thumper
I'm not Muslim, so I have no idea. You point out how our religions are similar...I say it doesn't matter. If it did, they wouldn't be blowing us up in the name of Allah. It is obvious the differences are what matter...what they are....see my first sentence.

True, they are fed a lot of lies. We are the ones that have to deal with their lies and beliefs though. We are their target.

Do you own a Mustang?
I'm not saying they're similar. I'm saying they're the same.

And they also have to deal with our lies and our beliefs. There are two sides to every conflict.

I do own a mustang, thank you very much, a 92 LX Hatchback 347 H/C/I all the goodies.
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This will help everyone out, check it.
It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
-Sam Harris
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post #35 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stang Seller
I know Jesus is your new best friend, but your book calls for just as much murder and mayhem you blind ignoramus.
SS
Nice. Good post!

The difference here lies in interpretation. The big three religions all share the same axioms and doctrines. As mentioned before, they all descended from a common ancestor, in Zoroastrianism.

Thus Spoke Zarathustra
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This will help everyone out, check it.
It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
-Sam Harris
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post #36 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stinginstang
I think these gals were fed some lies....

Hey-hey. Women have to cover up because god made a mistake and made them attractive. It can't be because men can't control their own eyes.
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post #37 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by TexasDevilDog
Hey-hey. Women have to cover up because god made a mistake and made them attractive. It can't be because men can't control their own eyes.
Definitely not their line of reasoning on the subject. But it is an opinion nonetheless.

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This will help everyone out, check it.
It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
-Sam Harris
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post #38 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Zarathustra
Nice. Good post!

The difference here lies in interpretation. The big three religions all share the same axioms and doctrines. As mentioned before, they all descended from a common ancestor, in Zoroastrianism.
Exactly, but try telling that to the bible thumpers and newly devout! To them, Christianity is original and only based on the one religion that ever existed before it! But unlike Zoroaster's teachings, none of the religions that followed taught the acceptance and tolerance of other religions. They copied much, but conveniently left out one of the most important aspects.
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post #39 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Zarathustra
Definitely not their line of reasoning on the subject. But it is an opinion nonetheless.
I think if god wanted women in a potato sack they would be born that way. Religion sucks.
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post #40 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stang Seller
But unlike Zoroaster's teachings, none of the religions that followed taught the acceptance and tolerance of other religions. They copied much, but conveniently left out one of the most important aspects.
SS
Precisely. Very well put, sir.

Thus Spoke Zarathustra
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This will help everyone out, check it.
It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
-Sam Harris
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post #41 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasDevilDog
I think if god wanted women in a potato sack they would be born that way. Religion sucks.
I think if the contemporary notion of God actually existed, defying all logic and scientific reasoning, he wouldn't give a hill of beans what we wore.

I'll agree whole-heartedly with that second sentence.

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---
This will help everyone out, check it.
It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
-Sam Harris
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post #42 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 07:54 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathustra

I don't speak Arabic, so I can't really translate the original text into English from Arabic,

Quote:
I can tell that whoever translated that doctored it up quite a bit.

color=#606060]
Quote:
"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
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post #43 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 08:08 PM
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Figures...

Thus Spoke Zarathustra
---
This will help everyone out, check it.
It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
-Sam Harris
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post #44 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 08:19 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stang Seller
I know Jesus is your new best friend, but your book calls for just as much murder and mayhem you blind ignoramus.
SS


In the OT, we lived under the law of Moses, where sin was punishable by death, and a relationship with God depended on one's works/sacrifices. Jesus arrival signaled a fufillment of the broken covenant.
(MAtthew 5:17-Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.)
In the NT, we are saved by grace as Christ paid the ultimate price for Man.
Quote:
Hebrews
15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.


16In the case of a will,[d] it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. 19When Moses had proclaimed every commandment of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. 20He said, "This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep."[e] 21In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. 22In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. 23It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence. 25Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
In the OT Man's relationship with God was bought and paid for by works. In the NT:
Eph 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
Eph 1:7 In Him we have a redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace.


Hope that helps. If you have any other questions, let me know and I'll do what I can to clear up any confusion you may have about Christianity.

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Quote:
"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
Quote:
Mike Bickle

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Last edited by HookEm; 04-16-2008 at 08:52 PM.
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post #45 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 08:37 PM
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Oh Exalted ONE!!! Please speak to us of your manifold christian virtues!!

It's all one book, everything in it counts and is fair game.

Thus Spoke Zarathustra
---
This will help everyone out, check it.
It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
-Sam Harris
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post #46 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 08:56 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zarathustra
Oh Exalted ONE!!! Please speak to us of your manifold christian virtues!!

It's all one book, everything in it counts and is fair game.

You are correct, sir!
Of course, this must mean that the US is still under British law, or in the case of Texas, Spanish law.......

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Quote:
"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
Quote:
Mike Bickle

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post #47 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by HookEm
You are correct, sir!
Of course, this must mean that the US is still under British law, or in the case of Texas, Spanish law.......
That most definitely does not logically follow, sir. Sorry, but comparing the contradictions in the bible to the evolution of a government in a given state is a FAAAAR stretch to prove your point. You just don't know stuff, do you?

Thus Spoke Zarathustra
---
This will help everyone out, check it.
It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
-Sam Harris
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post #48 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Stang Seller
I know Jesus is your new best friend, but your book calls for just as much murder and mayhem you blind ignoramus.
SS
^^^^^
Someone's never read the New Testament, and it shows LOL.

Stick to things you know about
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post #49 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 09:10 PM Thread Starter
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There are no contradictions, if you have the most basic knowledge of The Word. In the case of someone who doesn't, like yourself, you may perceive that contradictions exist but as often is true in life, false perceptions are caused by not having all the facts at your disposal.

You saying that Moses' Law is relevant to the New Covenant is akin to saying slavery still exists because at one time it did, or we belong to England, etc, etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathustra
That most definitely does not logically follow, sir. Sorry, but comparing the contradictions in the bible to the evolution of a government in a given state is a FAAAAR stretch to prove your point. You just don't know stuff, do you?

color=#606060]
Quote:
"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
Quote:
Mike Bickle

[



Sober By Grace Ministries: A Ministry of The James 2:26 Project
[size=1]Where New Beginnings Start
www.soberbygrace.org
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post #50 of 70 (permalink) Old 04-16-2008, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by HookEm
There are no contradictions, if you have the most basic knowledge of The Word. In the case of someone who doesn't, like yourself, you may perceive that contradictions exist but as often is true in life, false perceptions are caused by not having all the facts at your disposal.

You saying that Moses' Law is relevant to the New Covenant is akin to saying slavery still exists because at one time it did, or we belong to England, etc, etc.
Many people would argue to those points.

You'd be surprised at how much I actually do know about the bible, to be able to denounce it, one must have almost fallen prey to the mental crippling that most assuredly follows. Do you have a handicap placard/license plate on your car?

Thus Spoke Zarathustra
---
This will help everyone out, check it.
It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
-Sam Harris
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