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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-12-2008, 08:06 PM Thread Starter
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CHL at school

Quote:
COLORADO SPRINGS College students who say they're powerless against campus attacks by gunmen want to push legislators and school administrators to let them arm themselves.

In the wake of recent campus shootings at Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois University, a nationwide student group called Students for Concealed Carry on Campus says they've recruited 25,000 members in the last year.
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_8903504?source=rss

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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-12-2008, 08:14 PM
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"There is a strong belief that having guns in classrooms is not conducive to an open environment or a learning environment," he said.
Somebody, anybody want to explain to me how having a CONCEALED, that is - hidden, not visible, tucked underneath a shirt and pants, or in a bag, where NOBODY can see it, gun in a classroom "is not conducive to an open environment or a learning environment," as douchewinkle says?

I wonder how much good a gun locked up in a car or at the campus police station will do the next time there's another shooting. Anybody have an answer to that one?


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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-12-2008, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by That_Is_My_El_Camino
Somebody, anybody want to explain to me how having a CONCEALED, that is - hidden, not visible, tucked underneath a shirt and pants, or in a bag, where NOBODY can see it, gun in a classroom "is not conducive to an open environment or a learning environment," as douchewinkle says?

I wonder how much good a gun locked up in a car or at the campus police station will do the next time there's another shooting. Anybody have an answer to that one?
If another VT occurs, even the Liberals will have to re-think some stuff. I see potential lawsuits from folks that will say a massacre could have been avoided, had they had the option to carry on campus. One lawsuit is all it will take for the Libs to cave...

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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-12-2008, 09:21 PM
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If another VT occurs? VT was the icing on the cake and the straw that broke the camel's back to get people to start talking about change on this matter. School shootings were going on for years, maybe a decade before the VT massacre, and the only significance that it held is the fact that it took police all day to respond.

Again, guys, we're carelessly misusing the word liberal here.

The anti-gun crowd has nothing that's inherently liberal about them. In fact, the opposite side here, the ones that actually are fighting for the right to carry, they are the ones looking for the LIBERty to do what they want. The gun owners who want to carry on campus are the liberals here, as they want the freedom to carry on campus. Liberalism has nothing to do with the right to bear arms, and when you inject those overused words into the arguments surrounding it, it only clouds the true nature of the conflict.

Dichotomizing this problem between liberals and conservatives is absolutely pointless, and only moves us further away from understanding the truth here.

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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-12-2008, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Zarathustra
If another VT occurs? VT was the icing on the cake and the straw that broke the camel's back to get people to start talking about change on this matter. School shootings were going on for years, maybe a decade before the VT massacre, and the only significance that it held is the fact that it took police all day to respond.

Again, guys, we're carelessly misusing the word liberal here.

The anti-gun crowd has nothing that's inherently liberal about them. In fact, the opposite side here, the ones that actually are fighting for the right to carry, they are the ones looking for the LIBERty to do what they want. The gun owners who want to carry on campus are the liberals here, as they want the freedom to carry on campus. Liberalism has nothing to do with the right to bear arms, and when you inject those overused words into the arguments surrounding it, it only clouds the true nature of the conflict.

Dichotomizing this problem between liberals and conservatives is absolutely pointless, and only moves us further away from understanding the truth here.
I'm not misusing the word, those with liberal agenda's control our universities, and I stand by my statement.

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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-12-2008, 11:08 PM
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Correct, once again!!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathustra
If another VT occurs? VT was the icing on the cake and the straw that broke the camel's back to get people to start talking about change on this matter. School shootings were going on for years, maybe a decade before the VT massacre, and the only significance that it held is the fact that it took police all day to respond.

Again, guys, we're carelessly misusing the word liberal here.

The anti-gun crowd has nothing that's inherently liberal about them. In fact, the opposite side here, the ones that actually are fighting for the right to carry, they are the ones looking for the LIBERty to do what they want. The gun owners who want to carry on campus are the liberals here, as they want the freedom to carry on campus. Liberalism has nothing to do with the right to bear arms, and when you inject those overused words into the arguments surrounding it, it only clouds the true nature of the conflict.

Dichotomizing this problem between liberals and conservatives is absolutely pointless, and only moves us further away from understanding the truth here.

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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathustra
If another VT occurs? VT was the icing on the cake and the straw that broke the camel's back to get people to start talking about change on this matter. School shootings were going on for years, maybe a decade before the VT massacre, and the only significance that it held is the fact that it took police all day to respond.

Again, guys, we're carelessly misusing the word liberal here.

The anti-gun crowd has nothing that's inherently liberal about them. In fact, the opposite side here, the ones that actually are fighting for the right to carry, they are the ones looking for the LIBERty to do what they want. The gun owners who want to carry on campus are the liberals here, as they want the freedom to carry on campus. Liberalism has nothing to do with the right to bear arms, and when you inject those overused words into the arguments surrounding it, it only clouds the true nature of the conflict.

Dichotomizing this problem between liberals and conservatives is absolutely pointless, and only moves us further away from understanding the truth here.
Well put..



The violence at VT is just the latest in a VERY long string of incidents that have happened in this and other countries. Lots of people point to Columbine as the worst case of school violence in our nations history. However is still pales in comparison to the Bath School Disaster in Bath, Michigan where 45 were murdered and 58 injured. Most of those killed were 2nd to 6th graders.

Oh, and that happened in 1927.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster


For me personally, I'm not sure I would totally agree with allowing CHL's on school campuses. I'm not totally against the idea either, I just haven't made up my mind. When I think of actually allowing a CHL, I think of drunk college kids that have no business holding a gun. You know that there will be at least one incident like that. But on the other side of the equation, there is no doubt in my mind that the severity of these school shootings could have been limited if one of those kids had a gun of his own.

I guess ultimately I would consider Ben Franklin's stand on security versus liberty.

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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 10:10 AM
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hell yeah lets let everybody have an ak47 at school!!!

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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt Beavis
Well put..



The violence at VT is just the latest in a VERY long string of incidents that have happened in this and other countries. Lots of people point to Columbine as the worst case of school violence in our nations history. However is still pales in comparison to the Bath School Disaster in Bath, Michigan where 45 were murdered and 58 injured. Most of those killed were 2nd to 6th graders.

Oh, and that happened in 1927.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster


For me personally, I'm not sure I would totally agree with allowing CHL's on school campuses. I'm not totally against the idea either, I just haven't made up my mind. When I think of actually allowing a CHL, I think of drunk college kids that have no business holding a gun. You know that there will be at least one incident like that. But on the other side of the equation, there is no doubt in my mind that the severity of these school shootings could have been limited if one of those kids had a gun of his own.

I guess ultimately I would consider Ben Franklin's stand on security versus liberty.
I wonder if Ben would think the same if he were alive now, instead of 150 years ago? Times change, and you can change with them, or get run over...

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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 10:18 AM
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I'd carry to class every day if I could.
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Shorty
I'd carry to class every day if I could.
If I were planning a school massacre and I knew everyone there was packing, I would instead be planning for a tick..tick...tick...

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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 11:50 AM
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Bombs are quite as handy as guns are.

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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Sgt Beavis
When I think of actually allowing a CHL, I think of drunk college kids that have no business holding a gun. You know that there will be at least one incident like that.
No, you don't. Do you realize what all goes into getting a concealed handgun license? Among other things, a $140 fee to the state, another $100 or so to take an 8-hour class where you're taught all applicable laws (including the one that says, "A license holder commits an offense if, while
intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the
authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless
of whether the handgun is concealed," a Class A Misdemeanor), and an extensive background check. There are plenty of college kids (age 21 and older), me included, that carry as often as is legally possible and don't get drunk at frat parties and shoot people. I challenge you to find one instance of that.


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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 05:20 PM
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Same here. I'm a college student, a criminal justice graduate working on my masters with a CHL and I don't get drunk with my weapon. If I drink, I treat it like my truck. I leave it locked inside and don't touch the truck.
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt Beavis
When I think of actually allowing a CHL, I think of drunk college kids that have no business holding a gun. You know that there will be at least one incident like that. But on the other side of the equation, there is no doubt in my mind that the severity of these school shootings could have been limited if one of those kids had a gun of his own.

I guess ultimately I would consider Ben Franklin's stand on security versus liberty.
I disagree on a few points.

First, it's not like college students are partying while in class. Having a CHL on campus is not going to change or affect the home lives of most students (those in dorms aside). You don't have to have a CHL to keep a gun at home, where you would be drinking.

Secondly, being allowed to carry on campus is not a conflict of security versus liberty. It would be a pro to both, more liberty - more security.
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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ylw 98~~SNAKE~~
hell yeah lets let everybody have an ak47 at school!!!
are you just stupid?

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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by That_Is_My_El_Camino
No, you don't. Do you realize what all goes into getting a concealed handgun license? Among other things, a $140 fee to the state, another $100 or so to take an 8-hour class where you're taught all applicable laws (including the one that says, "A license holder commits an offense if, while
intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the
authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless
of whether the handgun is concealed," a Class A Misdemeanor), and an extensive background check. There are plenty of college kids (age 21 and older), me included, that carry as often as is legally possible and don't get drunk at frat parties and shoot people. I challenge you to find one instance of that.
I know exactly what goes into getting a CHL. I found out when I got mine.

I haven't said I'm against it, just that I have those kinds of visions. Colleges are party towns, we both no it. While there are PLENTY of very responsible 21year olds, you know it only takes one dumbass to cause a tragedy...

I'm not saying don't do it, I'm just saying it is something that really needs to be thought out before going forward.

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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exlude
I disagree on a few points.

First, it's not like college students are partying while in class. Having a CHL on campus is not going to change or affect the home lives of most students (those in dorms aside). You don't have to have a CHL to keep a gun at home, where you would be drinking.

Secondly, being allowed to carry on campus is not a conflict of security versus liberty. It would be a pro to both, more liberty - more security.
Both are valid points worth considering in this debate.

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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Vertnut
I wonder if Ben would think the same if he were alive now, instead of 150 years ago? Times change, and you can change with them, or get run over...
Yea that US Constitution shit is just totally out of date. [/sarcasm]

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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 10:01 PM
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are you just stupid?
Yeah if thats what you think! I'll set your opinion aside with the rest. I just dont agree that every dumbass in school should be walking around with a 9mm in his pocket. As a matter of fact next time i go to sunday school im gonna bring my glock just in case!

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post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ylw 98~~SNAKE~~
Yeah if thats what you think! I'll set your opinion aside with the rest. I just dont agree that every dumbass in school should be walking around with a 9mm in his pocket.
Every dumbass won't be walking around with a 9mm. Some may be walking around with .45ACP or 10mm Auto or any various other calibers of ammunition.

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post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by SOHC
Every dumbass won't be walking around with a 9mm. Some may be walking around with .45ACP or 10mm Auto.
great well when some dumbfuck accidently blows your fucking foot off be sure to take some pictures!

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post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 10:18 PM
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I figure if ones licensed, they should be able to carry wherever the fuck they want.
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post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 10:19 PM
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great well when some dumbfuck accidently blows your fucking foot off be sure to take some pictures!
lol.

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post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt Beavis
I know exactly what goes into getting a CHL. I found out when I got mine.

I haven't said I'm against it, just that I have those kinds of visions. Colleges are party towns, we both no it. While there are PLENTY of very responsible 21year olds, you know it only takes one dumbass to cause a tragedy...

I'm not saying don't do it, I'm just saying it is something that really needs to be thought out before going forward.
I've heard this argument before, and I don't see how being a college student makes an otherwise rational, competent license holder a beer-swilling dumbass with a gun. It will still be illegal to be intoxicated while carrying, and it will still have the same tough requirements to get the license. The same argument could be expanded onto every license holder ("I see a bunch of drunk guys with guns and CHLs shooting people up at parties in the near future"), but it doesn't make it any less ignorant. A college-going adult that has chosen to take on the responsibility of a CHL is no different than any other adult that has chosen to take on the responsibility of a CHL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ylw 98~~SNAKE~~
Yeah if thats what you think! I'll set your opinion aside with the rest. I just dont agree that every dumbass in school should be walking around with a 9mm in his pocket. As a matter of fact next time i go to sunday school im gonna bring my glock just in case!
Nor do I. That's why there's a whole slew of shit one has to go through to get a CHL. I carry my Glock everywhere the law permits; I'd love to be able to legally carry it to school and work.


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post #26 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 10:28 PM
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That's why there's a whole slew of shit one has to go through to get a CHL.
This is the bottom line to all of this; it's very cost and time prohibitive for someone who just "wants" to get a CHL to be cool and be a dumbass. 99 times out of 100 (yes, there is data to support this), a person buying a CHL is going to be a responsible gun owner who cares about his/her safety and knows the responsibility that is associated with carrying a concealed firearm. It's not Douche FratBoy who feels the need to go blow some change to look like a hardass.

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post #27 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-13-2008, 10:58 PM
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Allow to have CHL Holders take guns EVERYWHERE.

These criminals who go out for mass body counts, go places where they know people can not carry. Once the cops show up, these cowards run, hide, then shoot themselves.

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post #28 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-14-2008, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dacotua
Allow to have CHL Holders take guns EVERYWHERE.

These criminals who go out for mass body counts, go places where they know people can not carry. Once the cops show up, these cowards run, hide, then shoot themselves.
This, I can easily agree with.

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post #29 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-14-2008, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt Beavis
Yea that US Constitution shit is just totally out of date. [/sarcasm]
I don't think it's in the Constitution...I think it's a Ben Franklin quote.

The Constitution is considered by many to be a "living, breathing" article, hence, the need for amendments.

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