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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-08-2008, 08:51 PM Thread Starter
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corn to ethanol shortcut

http://www.physorg.com:80/news126863154.html

Cow stomach holds key to turning corn into biofuel

The enzyme that allows a cow to digest grasses and other plant fibers can be used to turn other plant fibers into simple sugars. These simple sugars can be used to produce ethanol to power cars and trucks.

MSU scientists have discovered a way to grow corn plants that contain this enzyme. They have inserted a gene from a bacterium that lives in a cow’s stomach into a corn plant. Now, the sugars locked up in the plant’s leaves and stalk can be converted into usable sugar without expensive synthetic chemicals.

"The fact that we can take a gene that makes an enzyme in the stomach of a cow and put it into a plant cell means that we can convert what was junk before into biofuel,”

The Spartan Corn line was created by inserting an animal stomach microbe gene into a plant cell. The DNA assembly of the animal stomach microbe required heavy modification in the lab to make it work well in the corn cells
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-08-2008, 08:55 PM
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They've been doing research on this for years. I saw a cow with a fucking hold in its side, sitting there chewing the shit out of some grass like nothing was wrong. They had this dude reaching inside of a grommet in the cow's side pulling out half-digested feed. We-ird...

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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 09:07 AM
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We are very early in the ethanol production process. I expect to keep seeing advances like this; there is money to be made here. But they do need to find out how to use something other than corn as a source.
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 09:28 AM
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Ya i agree with mike, they need to find a way to produce it without using our food source, guess i can put on my trailer "if we all starve blame me" since i went to e85

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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathustra
They've been doing research on this for years. I saw a cow with a fucking hold in its side, sitting there chewing the shit out of some grass like nothing was wrong. They had this dude reaching inside of a grommet in the cow's side pulling out half-digested feed. We-ird...
i saw that also...weird.

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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 10:23 AM
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cellulostic ethanol FTW

everything that grows can be converted to ethanol, your old hedge clippings, the grass in your yard, the weeds in the road ditches, the scrap from forestry operations even the organic crap in your trash...

Oil prices will eventually come down to a more reasonable level, too much trouble to get outta' the ground and transport even over short distances, as OPEC realizes those crazy Americans have this technology under development .

Unfortunately, it's still several years off in the future.

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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mardyn
cellulostic ethanol FTW

everything that grows can be converted to ethanol, your old hedge clippings, the grass in your yard, the weeds in the road ditches, the scrap from forestry operations even the organic crap in your trash...

Oil prices will eventually come down to a more reasonable level, too much trouble to get outta' the ground and transport even over short distances, as OPEC realizes those crazy Americans have this technology under development .

Unfortunately, it's still several years off in the future.

mardyn
It would certainly be to their advantage to keep oil prices down to discourage the development of alternatives. Unfortunately for them that genie is already out of the bottle with the production of vehicles able to run on ethanol and a growing ethanol supply system. If you combine the availability of E85 with vehicles that can run on it and throw in production of ethanol from sources other than corn then we have a winner, and we begin to put reverse pressure on OPEC and the speculators.
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 10:57 AM
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Yea. I almost forgot abut the Fusion 2000 reactor on the back of Doc Brown's DeLorean....

very cool.

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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeb
It would certainly be to their advantage to keep oil prices down to discourage the development of alternatives. Unfortunately for them that genie is already out of the bottle with the production of vehicles able to run on ethanol and a growing ethanol supply system. If you combine the availability of E85 with vehicles that can run on it and throw in production of ethanol from sources other than corn then we have a winner, and we begin to put reverse pressure on OPEC and the speculators.
The prob with E-85 is you use 30% more to go the same distance, sure its .30/gal cheaper than gas but remember it also has around a .50/gal government sub. on it take that away and your paying .20/gal more to go 30% less miles, BTW who pays for that .50/gal government sub. your taxes do.

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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 67camino
The prob with E-85 is you use 30% more to go the same distance, sure its .30/gal cheaper than gas but remember it also has around a .50/gal government sub. on it take that away and your paying .20/gal more to go 30% less miles, BTW who pays for that .50/gal government sub. your taxes do.
...and ask the Aussie's what some of the long-term effects are on automobile fuel systems.

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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67camino
The prob with E-85 is you use 30% more to go the same distance, sure its .30/gal cheaper than gas but remember it also has around a .50/gal government sub. on it take that away and your paying .20/gal more to go 30% less miles, BTW who pays for that .50/gal government sub. your taxes do.
So as the gas prices have gone up Ethanol has been going up with it?

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Last edited by big_tiger; 04-09-2008 at 12:30 PM.
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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67camino
The prob with E-85 is you use 30% more to go the same distance, sure its .30/gal cheaper than gas but remember it also has around a .50/gal government sub. on it take that away and your paying .20/gal more to go 30% less miles, BTW who pays for that .50/gal government sub. your taxes do.

Thats only what the stats are for the fuel consumption, i have not seen a difference in the amount of fuel i use between runs, i cannot talk about fuel mileage in a street car but the race car is nothing different. Govt sub the fuel after 1.30 a gallon, its still cheaper than $8 for race fuel. I passed the other day and it was 2.78 a gallon while gas was 3.26 a gallon. The govt will sub the fuel as long as its not the major fuel source for the country. And at least my taxes go to something i use now

The price of e85 goes up with the price of gas because of the tankers that bring the fuel to the pumps are the same, however they do not go up as much, when gas goes up 5c e85 goes up 2c

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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by MadMax404m
Thats only what the stats are for the fuel consumption, i have not seen a difference in the amount of fuel i use between runs, i cannot talk about fuel mileage in a street car but the race car is nothing different. Govt sub the fuel after 1.30 a gallon, its still cheaper than $8 for race fuel. I passed the other day and it was 2.78 a gallon while gas was 3.26 a gallon. The govt will sub the fuel as long as its not the major fuel source for the country. And at least my taxes go to something i use now

The price of e85 goes up with the price of gas because of the tankers that bring the fuel to the pumps are the same, however they do not go up as much, when gas goes up 5c e85 goes up 2c
Of course, when/if demand goes up, that will change.

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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67camino
The prob with E-85 is you use 30% more to go the same distance, sure its .30/gal cheaper than gas but remember it also has around a .50/gal government sub. on it take that away and your paying .20/gal more to go 30% less miles, BTW who pays for that .50/gal government sub. your taxes do.
Again, we are early into the ethanol deal. The subsidies are there to promote the adoption of ethanol as a fuel. Remember the chicken and egg deal? If the government had not mandated ethanol and provided subsidies then ethanol would not even be a viable option right now, leaving gasoline as the only choice. But now people with flex fuel vehicles have a choice, and infrastructure is slowly growing to provide ethanol at the pump. Would not have happened without a shove from the government. This is a good thing.

Gas is only going to keep going up, (especially if it does not have a competitor), and ethanol production has every possibility of creating the stuff cheaper and cheaper as research continues. Price wise gas is headed one way while ethanol should go the other way as discoveries are made on better ways to produce it, and on cheaper source materials to make it from. Hell, if we just make enough ethanol to offset some gas consumption and allow gasoline inventories to begin to build up that would be enough to drive down gas prices.

Gotta get the ethanol boys off the corn teat first though.
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mikeb
Gotta get the ethanol boys off the corn teat first though.
There you have it. we have to make it from somthing other than a crop that requires petro. products to grow it. ie desiel, fertelizer, natraul gas to refine it. right know it takes 1.5 gal. of fuel of some sort to produce 1/gal of ethanal.

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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 03:49 PM
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right know it takes 1.5 gal. of fuel of some sort to produce 1/gal of ethanal.
The DOE says differently.

http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/pdfs/factfict.pdf
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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 05:59 PM
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Here's how to do it yourself, with a little stupid baker ad: http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/id26.html
I definitely see a market for a "make it yourself" ethanol machine. Just dump in those old grass clippings or leftover food, load the enzyme, gasoline, and water hoppers, and push the button. 24 hours later the output jug is full of denatured ethanol.
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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-10-2008, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeb
This is the real btu factors for fuels.
Gasoline:
1 Gal Gasoline (mid grade) = 125,000 Btu's

Ethanol:
1 Gal Ethanol = 76,000 Btu's

Fuel Oil:
1 Gal of #2 Fuel Oil = 139,000 Btu's
1 Gal of #4 Fuel Oil = 145,000 Btu's
1 Gal of #6 Fuel Oil = 150,000 Btu's



This site is saying that ethonal has more btu's than gas.
ask anyone that has used it in there eberyday car and you will find out that it looses about 30% fuel milage. I agree It might be great as an alt. fuel for race car, but you also have to consider that a race car want burn 1000's of gal of this stuff in a years time. Although it is not as corrosive than methonal it still has unpredictable burn characteristicts and atracts water really well.

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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-10-2008, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67camino
This is the real btu factors for fuels.
Gasoline:
1 Gal Gasoline (mid grade) = 125,000 Btu's

Ethanol:
1 Gal Ethanol = 76,000 Btu's

Fuel Oil:
1 Gal of #2 Fuel Oil = 139,000 Btu's
1 Gal of #4 Fuel Oil = 145,000 Btu's
1 Gal of #6 Fuel Oil = 150,000 Btu's



This site is saying that ethonal has more btu's than gas.
ask anyone that has used it in there eberyday car and you will find out that it looses about 30% fuel milage. I agree It might be great as an alt. fuel for race car, but you also have to consider that a race car want burn 1000's of gal of this stuff in a years time. Although it is not as corrosive than methonal it still has unpredictable burn characteristicts and atracts water really well.
No, what it is saying that that the # of btus produced (ethanol) is more than the # of btus consumed (diesel, electricity, etc) to produce it. Everyone knows that ethanol has less btus than gas.

I am well aware of the 30% more factor as I run E85 in my race car.
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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-10-2008, 08:42 AM
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I see what you saying. Thanks.

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