a.t. & t. says it can't find enough skilled Americans - DFWstangs Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 09:19 AM Thread Starter
No Cerveza... No Trabajo
 
01WhiteCobra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Where's my beer?
Posts: 21,924
a.t. & t. says it can't find enough skilled Americans

Quote:
SAN ANTONIO, Texas (Reuters) - The head of the top U.S. phone company AT&T Inc (T.N) said on Wednesday it was having trouble finding enough skilled workers to fill all the 5,000 customer service jobs it promised to return to the United States from India.

"We're having trouble finding the numbers that we need with the skills that are required to do these jobs," AT&T Chief Executive Randall Stephenson told a business group in San Antonio, where the company's headquarters is located.

So far, only around 1,400 jobs have been returned to the United States of 5,000, a target it set in 2006, the company said, adding that it maintains the target.

Stephenson said he is especially distressed that in some U.S. communities and among certain groups, the high school dropout rate is as high as 50 percent.

"If I had a business that half the product we turned out was defective or you couldn't put into the marketplace, I would shut that business down," he said.


Gone are the days when AT&T and other U.S. companies had to hire locally, he said.

"We're able to do new product engineering in Bangalore as easily as we're able to do it in Austin, Texas," he said, referring to the Indian city where many international companies have "outsourced" technical and customer support workers.

"I know you don't like hearing that, but that's the way it is," he said.

Stephenson said neither he nor most Americans liked the situation, and the solution was a stronger U.S. focus on education and keeping jobs. Business needed to help, such as AT&T's repatriation of service positions and education grants, he added.
I like his quote about HS.

My 401K is now a 400K (was 301K)
01WhiteCobra is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 09:24 AM
makin' bacon
 
Stevo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Longview,TX
Posts: 5,752
Haha at 'skilled workers' and 'customer service' being used in the same sentence.

They should just break down and tell the truth, they rather not pay more than the $2 an hour that they are paying in India at the moment.

Stevo

Animal whisperings

Intoxicate the night

Hypnotize the desperate

Slow motion light

Wash away into the rain

Blood, milk and sky


Stevo is offline  
post #3 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 09:24 AM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: South of the Red River
Posts: 3,332
Excuses excuses...
That doesn't explain why I get my att&t service cell phone voice mail 3 daze f-ing later!!!

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand!
black01gt is offline  
 
post #4 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 09:26 AM Thread Starter
No Cerveza... No Trabajo
 
01WhiteCobra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Where's my beer?
Posts: 21,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevo
Haha at 'skilled workers' and 'customer service' being used in the same sentence.

They should just break down and tell the truth, they rather not pay more than the $2 an hour that they are paying in India at the moment.

Stevo
Very true. It wouldn't have sounded good to add... "at the going rate."


Quote:
Originally Posted by black01gt
Excuses excuses...
That doesn't explain why I get my att&t service cell phone voice mail 3 daze f-ing later!!!
My Sprint/Blackberry has been doing that with email lately. Maybe sunspots?

My 401K is now a 400K (was 301K)
01WhiteCobra is offline  
post #5 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 09:27 AM
Resident Epicurean
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Irving
Posts: 23,270
I find it slightly ironic that he is talking about the lack of skilled workers here. While that may ring true, the English "skills" of those in America are severely lacking. I can't speak for anyone else, but I get 10X more frustrated at some fuck that doesn't understand what I'm saying, and vice versa than someone who simply doesn't know how to fix something.



Not to mention, what "skill" is required of a customer service position, other than a friendly voice and attitude? Give me a fucking break....
bcoop is offline  
post #6 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 09:28 AM
Packin' up...
 
Skidmark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 18,736
Hello.. my network is down
- Please reset modem
Still down
- I'll run a test.. :: click start test ::
Still down
- Okay i'll send a technician
Skidmark is offline  
post #7 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 09:31 AM Thread Starter
No Cerveza... No Trabajo
 
01WhiteCobra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Where's my beer?
Posts: 21,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcoop
Not to mention, what "skill" is required of a customer service position, other than a friendly voice and attitude? Give me a fucking break....
The skill of reading a tech support decision tree I guess.

I got so frustrated with Comcast/TW customer service and not being able to jump from the tech support decision tree...

"I need you to reboot the computer."
"It isn't my computer your modem isn't synching."
"Sir, that is what my screen tells me to try. I can't advance until you try."

Then it would be 2 weeks before they'd send someone out to tell me... "we fixed a break in the line a few streets down. You should be good now."

My 401K is now a 400K (was 301K)
01WhiteCobra is offline  
post #8 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 09:32 AM Thread Starter
No Cerveza... No Trabajo
 
01WhiteCobra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Where's my beer?
Posts: 21,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidmark
Hello.. my network is down
- Please reset modem
Still down
- I'll run a test.. :: click start test ::
Still down
- Okay i'll send a technician
Call up Stephenson! You are hired!

My 401K is now a 400K (was 301K)
01WhiteCobra is offline  
post #9 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 09:34 AM
Packin' up...
 
Skidmark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 18,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
Call up Stephenson! You are hired!
Ya Ya!! I have the skizills!
Skidmark is offline  
post #10 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 09:39 AM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: South of the Red River
Posts: 3,332
Quote:
Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
My Sprint/Blackberry has been doing that with email lately. Maybe sunspots?
I think the messages sit on the server and don't get relayed on time. I'll make a call and when I hang up I'll suddenly get 3 or 4 messages from days ago rolling in. AT&T computer..."oops, he's got messages we need to send"
Wifey didn't believe me until hers started doing the same thing.

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand!
black01gt is offline  
post #11 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 09:39 AM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lafayette, IN
Posts: 1,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidmark
Ya Ya!! I have the skizills!
Wrong! The correct answer should have been:

"LOLZ! I has teh skilz!"

No customer service job for you!

Regarding Slo3gt:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS Junk View Post
Whining about someone disclosing their salary on a message forum usually leads to said whiner being a broke dick. If you don't like it, go elsewhere.
hedkutter18 is offline  
post #12 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 09:45 AM
Packin' up...
 
Skidmark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 18,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by hedkutter18
Wrong! The correct answer should have been:

"LOLZ! I has teh skilz!"

No customer service job for you!
Fine, I will goto India and teach English!
Skidmark is offline  
post #13 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 09:58 AM
Musician for the deaf
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Euless, TX
Posts: 9,656
LOL at skills. I guess this is what passes for "IT work" nowadays.
Casper is offline  
post #14 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 09:59 AM
IA2
 
mikeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 22,413
That is all bravo sierra. What they are really saying is that they cannot find american help at the rates they wish to pay (offshore rates). Bill Gates has also been spewing this same line of crap. They both want the H1B visa restrictions to go away so that they can get rid of as many "highly paid" people as possible, to improve the bottom line.

In the old days companies would actually train employees; that is how they found lower cost labor. I know of many IT people that started out doing something entirely different and were offered an opportunity in IT because someone realized that they were smart enough to learn the job. Nowadays it is expected that when you walk in the door you will already have "x" years of skill "y" and "x" years of skill "z" and certifications and a 4 year degree. Well guess what - those kinds of people do not come cheap.

I wish the government would find a way to encourage these companies to employ US citizens instead of allowing US jobs to be offshored. A shrinking middle class is not good for the US in any way, and it has been shrinking.
mikeb is offline  
post #15 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 10:06 AM
Musician for the deaf
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Euless, TX
Posts: 9,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeb
That is all bravo sierra. What they are really saying is that they cannot find american help at the rates they wish to pay (offshore rates). Bill Gates has also been spewing this same line of crap. They both want the H1B visa restrictions to go away so that they can get rid of as many "highly paid" people as possible, to improve the bottom line.

In the old days companies would actually train employees; that is how they found lower cost labor. I know of many IT people that started out doing something entirely different and were offered an opportunity in IT because someone realized that they were smart enough to learn the job. Nowadays it is expected that when you walk in the door you will already have "x" years of skill "y" and "x" years of skill "z" and certifications and a 4 year degree. Well guess what - those kinds of people do not come cheap.

I wish the government would find a way to encourage these companies to employ US citizens instead of allowing US jobs to be offshored. A shrinking middle class is not good for the US in any way, and it has been shrinking.
Can't blame them for offering nearly $12 an hour for what is barely above entry level admin work. I'd like to actually see the resume pools HR has to sort through every week. I bet they get some real winners.
Casper is offline  
post #16 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 10:28 AM
Worship me
 
AL P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 34,345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper
Can't blame them for offering nearly $12 an hour for what is barely above entry level admin work. I'd like to actually see the resume pools HR has to sort through every week. I bet they get some real winners.
You have no idea how many fucktards are out there until you try to hire someone. I get some resumes and wonder how the people actually function on a day to day basis.
AL P is offline  
post #17 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 10:30 AM
Boost is Life
 
DamonH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Fate, TX
Posts: 4,327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper
Can't blame them for offering nearly $12 an hour for what is barely above entry level admin work. I'd like to actually see the resume pools HR has to sort through every week. I bet they get some real winners.
I agree. I've got some people making $55k a year and aren't worth a damn, I can only imagine what they'd be like if they made $12 / hour.

DamonH
2006 F150 SCrew
DamonH is offline  
post #18 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 10:34 AM
Musician for the deaf
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Euless, TX
Posts: 9,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by AL P
You have no idea how many fucktards are out there until you try to hire someone. I get some resumes and wonder how the people actually function on a day to day basis.
Oh I do, believe me.

And I only interview vetted candidates with degrees and experience. Its like "good god man, did anyone ever tell you not to pick your nose and drool in between mumbling unintelligible answers to simple yes-no questions?"

And these people want $80k to start. No on-call, and weekends and holidays off. Full work from home priveledges. An office. And they are serious.
Casper is offline  
post #19 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 10:56 AM Thread Starter
No Cerveza... No Trabajo
 
01WhiteCobra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Where's my beer?
Posts: 21,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper
Oh I do, believe me.

And I only interview vetted candidates with degrees and experience. Its like "good god man, did anyone ever tell you not to pick your nose and drool in between mumbling unintelligible answers to simple yes-no questions?"

And these people want $80k to start. No on-call, and weekends and holidays off. Full work from home priveledges. An office. And they are serious.
For my programmers I have a simple test to weed them out.

Sort of like a take home test. If we're hiring C++/Java programmers they have to create a standalone app to help organize a CD collection. If they are webbers an online application to manage CD collections (either JSP or ASP).

I use to do it in house but the failure rate was too high (sit down at this computer, all documentation, all internet available.) We moved to making it a 1 week take home test and the failure rate is still 75%.

When I was hired at a company back in the 80s I was sat down at a computer and told to write a b-tree indexing system in MASM and an application in MASM that searched the first line of every file on the hard disk and report back the first line if text and skip if the file was binary. I had 2 hours to do it... no books or documentation.

Back during the dot com boom days I had some dumbass with 6 months experience tell me he wanted $150/hr and options because that was what Fidelity wanted to pay him. I was offering 50/hr, no options but a 15% SEP-IRA account.

He called me back a couple years later saying he'd work for 15/hr.

My 401K is now a 400K (was 301K)
01WhiteCobra is offline  
post #20 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 11:01 AM
Worship me
 
AL P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 34,345
At least you guys can quantify knowledge with a test.

It is hard for me to have someone come in and take a test by closing a deal or underwriting an investment. Both take days or weeks. We have to put them in the trenches and find out that they are full of shit.
AL P is offline  
post #21 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 11:05 AM
IA2
 
mikeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 22,413
We don't have any trouble finding qualified people (although you do get the occasional bullshit resume filled with all of the buzzwords. When questioned the people do not know what those words mean). Right now .net and java are red hot. What we are finding is a lot of .net and java people that expect to start at $115k with a lot of perks up front. Since we are a contracting company we cannot make any money with people like that.

We have been networking and finding college kids with the technical knowledge of how to write the code and have been bringing them in and mentoring them on how to do a customer business project for the company. Eventually they leave for more money, but that is part of the cycle. And as a contracting company its all good because most of them are thankful that we invested in them and they recommend us for contract work to their employers.
mikeb is offline  
post #22 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 11:24 AM Thread Starter
No Cerveza... No Trabajo
 
01WhiteCobra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Where's my beer?
Posts: 21,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by AL P
At least you guys can quantify knowledge with a test.

It is hard for me to have someone come in and take a test by closing a deal or underwriting an investment. Both take days or weeks. We have to put them in the trenches and find out that they are full of shit.
Tell them to put together a deal and if they deal goes through you'll hire them.

My 401K is now a 400K (was 301K)
01WhiteCobra is offline  
post #23 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 11:27 AM
Musician for the deaf
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Euless, TX
Posts: 9,656
Mostly I get dothad fucks on L1s who have these huge resumes full of C experience.

And they may know C quite well, but it doesn't translate. I can teach most anyone how to be a crack mainframe coder for a given application in 90 days, as long as they are willing to learn. These guys think they know it all and they lie through their teeth.

"Did you test that process with all 60 production files?"
"ohhh...yes"
"And you got no errors?"
"ohhh...none"
"how much data was that?"
"ohh... its a lot of data, took a very long time"
"did you print off the counts from the display?"
"ohhh..no, sorry, there was some kind of problem"
"And are you sure you used the files I told you to use?"
"ohhh, but...yes I am sure"
"Because those were Oklahoma files, and they are always empty, I gave you the wrong ones"
"ohhhh...I think we found some new files somewhere"
"where is your job? We can run it again and get counts"
"ohhh, I think someone has accidentally deleted the jobs"
"That's okay, grab the prod version and change the symbolics"
"ohhh..."
"How did you get it to compile without me giving you bind access?"
"ohhh..."
"how soon can you be finished with testing"
"ohhh... I think today"
Casper is offline  
post #24 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
No Cerveza... No Trabajo
 
01WhiteCobra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Where's my beer?
Posts: 21,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeb
And as a contracting company its all good because most of them are thankful that we invested in them and they recommend us for contract work to their employers.
We get alot of business in a similiar fashion although not for technical people (we sell to marketing types.)

We attach onto our "client" at the company and follow him through his career.

My 401K is now a 400K (was 301K)
01WhiteCobra is offline  
post #25 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 11:47 AM
Packin' up...
 
Skidmark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 18,736
Alo, yis mi name is John an I ama her to helf you toeday.
Skidmark is offline  
post #26 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 11:48 AM
Lifer
 
krazyh0rse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,105
for what they charge soldiers to call home they could pay decent wages

93 coupe 351/t56


In the words of President Teddy Roosevelt, " We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."


ive never been good at keeping directions i believe schedules are one of lifes worst infections


WELCOME TO TENNESSEE THE PATRON STATE OF SHOOTIN STUFF
krazyh0rse is offline  
post #27 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 11:51 AM
Lifer
 
redheadintx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 6,672
Stuff like this pisses me off. So many good, hardworking people at the company I work for have been laid off so that their job could be given to someone in another country that can't do it 1/2 as good as they could. We have a contract with them so we are not legally allowed to lay any of them off... we just have to shuffle them around to other groups hoping they'll be a better "fit" elsewhere.

Their culture has no sense of urgency and things are not done well and rarely ever done on time. They don't have a good enough understanding of what they're supporting in terms of the "big picture" and it hurts the product. One day these companies will realize that the financial savings are not worth the shitty product when they have no customers left!

redheadintx is offline  
post #28 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 11:53 AM
Lifer
 
redheadintx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 6,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper
These guys think they know it all and they lie through their teeth.
OMG! I could not have said it any better myself! Get outta my head!!!

redheadintx is offline  
post #29 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 11:56 AM
Musician for the deaf
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Euless, TX
Posts: 9,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by redheadintx
Stuff like this pisses me off. So many good, hardworking people at the company I work for have been laid off so that their job could be given to someone in another country that can't do it 1/2 as good as they could. We have a contract with them so we are not legally allowed to lay any of them off... we just have to shuffle them around to other groups hoping they'll be a better "fit" elsewhere.

Their culture has no sense of urgency and things are not done well and rarely ever done on time. They don't have a good enough understanding of what they're supporting in terms of the "big picture" and it hurts the product. One day these companies will realize that the financial savings are not worth the shitty product when they have no customers left!
I'm kind of hoping for a full blown nuclear exchange between Pakistan and India. Well, no "kind of" about it, it would really make my day.
Casper is offline  
post #30 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 11:57 AM Thread Starter
No Cerveza... No Trabajo
 
01WhiteCobra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Where's my beer?
Posts: 21,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidmark
Alo, yis mi name is John an I ama her to helf you toeday.
That is what absolutely kills me. Anytime I hear an indian accent tell me their name is John I greet them with, "Bless you! My name is Rahjeev! I am so glad you called!"

Side note: If you go to BWW in Plano off 75 you will see Rahjeev is kicking ass and taking names in the NTN No Fold 'Em standings.

My 401K is now a 400K (was 301K)
01WhiteCobra is offline  
post #31 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 12:30 PM
IA2
 
mikeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 22,413
We inherited a vb asp/.net project awhile ago that was done in india but not finished. vb .net is an object oriented language in that you can create and inherit from objects to reuse code. Their idea of code reuse was to use cut & paste. I found the same block of code in dozens of modules; it could have simply been added to the base object, or another object could have been created for the express purpose of what this code did. Nope, cut & paste was used (and it was used A LOT). To some degree i'm seeing that a lot of businesses that jumped on the outsourcing bandwagon are now pulling back because they are not getting their money's worth.
mikeb is offline  
post #32 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 12:50 PM
Lifer
 
redheadintx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 6,672
We use a Mercury tool for automation called "QTP" which stands for Quick Test Professional. The whole point of the tool is to automate by recording and adding various checkpoints for verification. Well, rather than simply using the record function they decided to CODE the entire script. WHY?! Why would you do that for GUI verifications that could be recorded in a fraction of the time?

And, when the scripts and coding that they "automated" didn't work they blamed it on the fact that we were running the scripts with a newer version of QTP than what they were written in. That would be like not being able to open a document created in Microsoft Word 2000 with Microsoft Word 2003.

redheadintx is offline  
post #33 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 12:55 PM
Musician for the deaf
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Euless, TX
Posts: 9,656
I haven't got much respect for Mercury Interactive stuff. But still, I know what you mean.
Casper is offline  
post #34 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 12:56 PM
Lifer
 
redheadintx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 6,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper
I haven't got much respect for Mercury Interactive stuff. But still, I know what you mean.
Why not? It's all we use over here... Quality Center, Performance Center, QTP, etc.

redheadintx is offline  
post #35 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 01:02 PM
Musician for the deaf
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Euless, TX
Posts: 9,656
We use quality center and it is about like an app built for a school project IMO. Not seamless at all, PITA to do some things.

Part of it is having over a thousand users, I'm sure. But Mercury wrote their own email and attachment libraries, so it isn't nearly as seamless as it could be. Especially the way it gets used.

It could be worse.
Casper is offline  
post #36 of 44 (permalink) Old 03-28-2008, 01:49 AM
Lifer
 
Mustangman_2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: D/FW
Posts: 8,912
Fuck at&t.

I'll start giving a damn about their problems when they figure out to get my text and voice mail messages delivered on time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MR EDD View Post
it was not a problem to bring money to his house at 10pm.so why is it a problem to call and bitch.it wasnt a problem when we were all sitting around smoking pot together.yes i said it we all were smoking pot together.what now stupid.
Mustangman_2000 is offline  
post #37 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-01-2008, 12:46 PM
Pushed to the limit
 
PWTRTXSS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In the shadow of a big mountain
Posts: 4,510
Quote:
Originally Posted by AL P
You have no idea how many fucktards are out there until you try to hire someone. I get some resumes and wonder how the people actually function on a day to day basis.
Was one of them from Luke DeCharmnuts? If he could write his name on a piece of paper without spelling errors or even sit the right way on a toilet, I would be impressed.

Buying dogs kills.
PWTRTXSS is offline  
post #38 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-01-2008, 12:47 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,249
Who wants to work for $1.50/hour?
FSON is offline  
post #39 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-01-2008, 12:49 PM
Pushed to the limit
 
PWTRTXSS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In the shadow of a big mountain
Posts: 4,510
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeb
We inherited a vb asp/.net project awhile ago that was done in india but not finished. vb .net is an object oriented language in that you can create and inherit from objects to reuse code. Their idea of code reuse was to use cut & paste. I found the same block of code in dozens of modules; it could have simply been added to the base object, or another object could have been created for the express purpose of what this code did. Nope, cut & paste was used (and it was used A LOT). To some degree i'm seeing that a lot of businesses that jumped on the outsourcing bandwagon are now pulling back because they are not getting their money's worth.
The whole outsourcing thing appears to be cyclical. This wouldn't be the first time that it hasn't worked out like some ultra-smart CEO thought it would. In 10 years, the next generation of ultra-smart CEOs will forget about how badly it failed and they will try it again.

Buying dogs kills.
PWTRTXSS is offline  
post #40 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-01-2008, 09:57 PM
Cummins > Powerstroke
 
8mpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: id rather be cummin than strokin
Posts: 19,068
Ok..my disclaimer. Im not supporting sending work to other countries but I can sort of see where the man is coming from.

Take the demographic of the college students where I attend college (North Lake in Irving). These are the people who work part/full time at a call center for $10/HR. Your typical racial diversity but we also have foreign students unlike some colleges. I think the guy from ATT is correct that it would be hard to find qualified workers. Regardless of education level, I wouldn't hire half the people going to COLLEGE.

The generation of today is irresponsible, lazy and cannot speak proper English. I cant tell you how many people talk to the teachers in Ebonics or a stupid version of Tex-Mex...whatever you want to call it. A person who cannot respect a teacher and yells "Say dawg" in the middle of class to get the teacher's attention doesn't qualify as a worthy candidate for a customer service position. White teenagers and people in their mid 20's are just as bad. They think they are black and ghetto and act the same.

If I called ATT and some guy did his "Thank you for calling ATT... how can I help you" and later on threw in a "naa what Im sayin" or "I dont no nothin", they are not qualified. If that is the quality of people I can expect, Id ship my jobs out to India too and pay them less than 1/2 the wages.

It's sad today that the new age generation is so worthless. These guys in India do their job just like they are told to. They know if they don't, their ass will be replaced by the next day. So you have a bit of a problem understanding them...but atleast they do their work. Sad to say...those guys will probably do a better job than 1/2 the people on this website.

2006 Dodge Ram Megacab Cummins
1969 Mustang Coupe
1969 Mustang Mach1
1969 Chevy C10
1966 Mustang Coupe
8mpg is offline  
post #41 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-02-2008, 09:52 AM
Lifer
 
GT Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,335
My girlfriend used to train the Customer Support staff for Sprint. She would come home with horror stories that would make your head spin.

They had problems with people not having "rides" to work so they bought a van and would pick them up. The van was stolen and trashed.

They couldn't get people to come to work so they started giving them $100-$200 bonuses if they came to work and worked 8 hours for five days in a row.

The employees started complaining about the vending machines so they started paying for and bringing in catered lunches every day.

Every potential employee had to pass a drug test. They had so many failures, they started pencil whipping the test.

They ended up having to pay and off duty Fort Worth LEO to run security for the night shift because they would have gang fights in the parking lot.

One dude ended up in the hospital because he borrowed a pen from some bitch and forgot to give it back. She called her boyfriend and he showed up at the job with a bunch of his gansta friends. They beat him senseless and took his shoes?

One of them got pissed at a coworker and set his car on fire. It damaged both of the cars parked next to it.

She actually got in trouble for writing them up and terminating them for being late and/or not showing up. If someone didn't show up for work, she would have to track them down and ask them to come in before she could write them up or fire them.

One of her students stole her cell phone and left her a note telling her she took it. Told her to stop being such a mean bitch.

More than once, I had to go up there when she got off just to make sure she got to her car without getting assaulted after she wrote someone up for being a stupid mf'er.

No matter what the company did, these lazy asses expected to be paid whether they worked or not.

I don't like the fact that jobs are going overseas but with the entitlement "culture" in this country it doesn't surprised me one bit.
GT Dan is offline  
post #42 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-02-2008, 10:13 AM
#4 Best QB Ever
 
That_Is_My_El_Camino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Land of the Free
Posts: 29,339
*Be forewarned, I don't know shit about the shit I'm talking about, but I'm going to pretend I do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper
Oh I do, believe me.

And I only interview vetted candidates with degrees and experience. Its like "good god man, did anyone ever tell you not to pick your nose and drool in between mumbling unintelligible answers to simple yes-no questions?"

And these people want $80k to start. No on-call, and weekends and holidays off. Full work from home priveledges. An office. And they are serious.
Hey, when I get out of school, I'll settle for $79.99999K and all that other stuff.

*mumbles unintelligible "answers" to questions that aren't even questions...*
Quote:
Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
For my programmers I have a simple test to weed them out.

Sort of like a take home test. If we're hiring C++/Java programmers they have to create a standalone app to help organize a CD collection. If they are webbers an online application to manage CD collections (either JSP or ASP).

I use to do it in house but the failure rate was too high (sit down at this computer, all documentation, all internet available.) We moved to making it a 1 week take home test and the failure rate is still 75%.
Either you've got a fancy pants, uber 'spensive CD collection, you're giving them some tricky rules they have to follow, or that's just plain sad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeb
We inherited a vb asp/.net project awhile ago that was done in india but not finished. vb .net is an object oriented language in that you can create and inherit from objects to reuse code. Their idea of code reuse was to use cut & paste. I found the same block of code in dozens of modules; it could have simply been added to the base object, or another object could have been created for the express purpose of what this code did. Nope, cut & paste was used (and it was used A LOT). To some degree i'm seeing that a lot of businesses that jumped on the outsourcing bandwagon are now pulling back because they are not getting their money's worth.
Haha, that's called redundancy!


Quote:
Originally Posted by DON SVO View Post
Women: vaginal life support.
That_Is_My_El_Camino is offline  
post #43 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-05-2008, 11:47 AM
Punk Ass Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 9
I was the IT Manager over the telecom teams at all of Cingular/AT&Ts credit and activations call centers in the US from 2001 through 2005. After that I was the IT Director for another large call center company. I can totally understand where he's coming from. You would think finding qualified people to answer the phone politely and do online activations and credit checks would be easy. Good lord, you wouldn't believe the riffraff that come through our doors. You'd have people that could barely read. Grammar that was sooo poor you would think they grew up in a barn with chickens. A terrible work ethic. And when they found out that they were supposed to actually show up on time every day and actually work, then 40% of them would quit. And at least with Cingular/AT&T, we were by far the best paying company in the areas we were in.

Shane Hill
1990 25.5 LX with 304ci 4v and 105mm turbo
shaneh is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the DFWstangs Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome