Ethanol costing US jobs... - DFWstangs Forums
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post #1 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 02:21 PM Thread Starter
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Ethanol costing US jobs...

So, here comes the first casualties of the ethanol craze...

Quote:
Chicken processor Pilgrim's Pride Corp. is closing a Chatham County facility and laying off 830 workers there, the company said Wednesday.

Texas-based Pilgrim's Pride (NYSE: PPC) said the move is part of a restructuring that will see it shed 1,100 jobs in all. It called the closing "part of a plant to curtail losses amid record-high costs for corn, soybean meal and other feed ingredients and an oversupply of chicken in the United States."
...
According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, the price of corn has been setting new records in recent months in the face of ethanol-making efforts at home. Prices also have risen amid high demand in the corporate world, which uses corn for everything from making sweeteners to feeding livestock.

Pilgrim's Pride and large competitors including Tyson Foods (NYSE: TSN) have bemoaned the situation. Corn makes up roughly one-third of the cost of sales for Pilgrim's Pride, and the company has been hard-hit. Losses widened in the quarter ended Dec. 29, and the company blamed rising feed costs for the drop.
http://washington.bizjournals.com/tr...0/daily22.html

And with Tyson already reporting losses, they'll probably be doing some cutting too.
Quote:
Expansion of corn-based ethanol production has driven up corn prices and is a key reason for higher costs for Tyson and other food producers.
http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Jan...sTyson,00.html

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post #2 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 03:10 PM
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This sounds like bs to me. How many people on here use or know of someone using the corn fuel?

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post #3 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan
This sounds like bs to me. How many people on here use or know of someone using the corn fuel?
You might want to look at the pump sticker the next time you gas up.
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post #4 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 03:44 PM
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I'm not sure , but I think the corn- fuel oil people get it put into biodiesel which is sold at pumps all over as B20 , a 20% blend respectively.

The really screwy thing is that corn is not nearly as efficient as using algae for making biodiesel.
I don't know how proven that is though. Thats generally the response I've seen online though to bitching about why corn is being used for this...

I don't really give a shit about biodiesel though, I'm going the WVO route.

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post #5 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan
This sounds like bs to me. How many people on here use or know of someone using the corn fuel?
If you have filled up lately, you are. Pump gas contains "up to 10% ethanol". It is a replacement for MTBE, which is poisonous. Both MTBE and ethanol as an additive are designed to "oxygenate" fuel, which supposedly helps it burn better and reduce emissions.

Corn is a lousy source to make ethanol. If they ever figure out cellustic production of ethanol then they can make it from almost any kind of organic material, including garbage and switchgrass, both of which we have plenty of.

Oh, and I run E85 in my race car
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post #6 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 03:55 PM
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You can thank Archer Daniels Midland for all this shit. Bunch of god damned crooks.
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post #7 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 04:09 PM
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LMAO. Oh my.

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post #8 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan
This sounds like bs to me. How many people on here use or know of someone using the corn fuel?
Just stop now.
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post #9 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeb
Oh, and I run E85 in my race car

Myself as well

I think E85 is a great fuel to create but not at the expense of using our food source, switchgrass is starting to take its position with it, as soon as we can master the production of e85 through different materials it should create more jobs.

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post #10 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan
This sounds like bs to me. How many people on here use or know of someone using the corn fuel?
Like the others have said...everyone is using ethanol in their gas...you might have noticed a drop in gas milage since a year or two ago if you own the same car. The fuels are up to 10* ethanol. Bush is a moron and thought that corn was some miracle cure....to bad we cant grow enough fucking corn to even meet a percentage that we need for fuels.

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post #11 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 04:36 PM
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Just stop now.
I did....... that was my stupid post, er posts for the year (hopefully). glad i got that out of the way early.

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post #12 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan
This sounds like bs to me. How many people on here use or know of someone using the corn fuel?


WOW!!!!
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post #13 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 04:43 PM
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I've been preaching the evils of that shit on here for a while. "Corn is the answer!" Bullshit. Everything related to corn is going to skyrocket, including the Ethanol itself. "How do we get away from the evil middle-eastern oil barons?" Drive a damn Civic, motorcycle, scooter, or whatever, but know that corn-based ethanol is not the answer.

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post #14 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 04:45 PM
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WOW!!!!
Thanks

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post #15 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 04:47 PM
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My dad is in the "corn" business and two years ago, when the corn crops in Central Texas, down around Hillsboro, Itasca, Grandview area were all basically burned up due to lack of rain, he told me what to expect. Granted, most of the corn grown here locally is used for livestock and pet food, but it drove the cost of corn thru the roof. They have 4 silos where he is at, that hold 3+million bushels of corn, and of those four, in August of 06, only 1 was full, where they are usually overflowing. We are just now starting to really feel the effects of this now. Have you noticed how expensive chicken and pork have gotten at the grocery store?
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post #16 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 04:53 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jims93lx
Have you noticed how expensive chicken and pork have gotten at the grocery store?
Coupled with the price of gas/diesel, grocery store trips are getting more and more fun!

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post #17 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 04:54 PM
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All gas in Texas has a percentage of Ethanol in it...
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post #18 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostTX
Coupled with the price of gas/diesel, grocery store trips are getting more and more fun!
yep!
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post #19 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Duncan
Thanks


You're welcome.
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post #20 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by GhostTX
Coupled with the price of gas/diesel, grocery store trips are getting more and more fun!


And more and more expensive. You know you're paying for the transport companies fuel increases at the register.
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post #21 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 05:07 PM
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Most companies, including FedEx and UPS are starting to include a fuel surcharge into their pricing for just about everything
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post #22 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by AL P
You can thank Archer Daniels Midland for all this shit. Bunch of god damned crooks.
Roger that!

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post #23 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Web Guy
All gas in Texas has a percentage of Ethanol in it...
Not ALL. Some stations in rural areas still have gas without ethanol.

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post #24 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jims93lx
Most companies, including FedEx and UPS are starting to include a fuel surcharge into their pricing for just about everything
I think using a fuel surcharge is BS. Companies should just price their products and services fairly. If the cost of business is going up, raise the prices of the products and services. Charge $100 for an airline ticket with a $200 fuel surcharge. Sheesh.
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post #25 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by TexasDevilDog
I think using a fuel surcharge is BS. Companies should just price their products and services fairly. If the cost of business is going up, raise the prices of the products and services. Charge $100 for an airline ticket with a $200 fuel surcharge. Sheesh.
It's easier for the transportation industry to operate that way. Plus they can pat themselves on the abck and say "we haven't raised our rates in X amount of years." The surcharge will fluctuate up or down with the fuel cost, and yes I have seen fuel surcharges go down, not recently though.
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post #26 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 08:28 PM
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I'm not a fan of goofy little overpriced chicken wings anyway.

Mexico is planting corn like crazy. The agave fields are about gone. Now...that's a problem!

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post #27 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 08:58 PM
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I'm not a fan of goofy little overpriced chicken wings anyway.
Buffalo Wild Wings on Tuesdays... .40 wings. Blazin' is some good stuff.

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post #28 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
Buffalo Wild Wings on Tuesdays... .40 wings. Blazin' is some good stuff.

Silly man.....Asian Zing is where it's at....I love Tues/Thur at BWW :-D


We need to meet up sometime and have some wings and beer while the rest of these bastards are working

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post #29 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 09:40 PM
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I did....... that was my stupid post, er posts for the year (hopefully). glad i got that out of the way early.
I'm glad you turned off the stupid switch. You were just begging for a verbal lashing

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post #30 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 09:43 PM
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Not ALL. Some stations in rural areas still have gas without ethanol.
Man I wish I knew where I could find a gas station like that near Denton. That E-10 shit just fucks up your mileage. (kills about 10 to 15% of your mileage compared to gas)

IMO ethanol from Corn isn't just stupid, its immoral. There are millions of people out there that can't get a fuckin' bite to eat and we're using our food to gas our cars. Eventually Ethanol from switchgrass (celulostic ethanol) will be practical and I'll be all for it but this stuff is just fucking sickening.

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post #31 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
Buffalo Wild Wings on Tuesdays... .40 wings. Blazin' is some good stuff.
going tomorrow for the .50 boneless wings. I tried the jerk seasoning (good) and the asian zing seasoning (good), any other suggestions this side of blistering hot?
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post #32 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 09:45 PM
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I guess I'll play devils advocate. I know corn isn't the answer to ethanol, but to cry about losing 800 jobs is just crazy. Think about all the jobs that where created by building ethanol plants and the personal it takes to keep the plants running. I'm sure it offsets the lost jobs. I don't know what its like up in the Dallas area, but we have several tyson farms and a Plant just out side of San Antonio. Let me put it to you like this. I'd bet money that 90% of their workforce isn't here legally. So yall are going to cry about some illegals losing their jobs and having to go back to mexico.

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post #33 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreightTrain
I guess I'll play devils advocate. I know corn isn't the answer to ethanol, but to cry about losing 800 jobs is just crazy. Think about all the jobs that where created by building ethanol plants and the personal it takes to keep the plants running. I'm sure it offsets the lost jobs. I don't know what its like up in the Dallas area, but we have several tyson farms and a Plant just out side of San Antonio. Let me put it to you like this. I'd bet money that 90% of their workforce isn't here legally. So yall are going to cry about some illegals losing their jobs and having to go back to mexico.

good point...btw, I wasn't crying..just passing some info along
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post #34 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreightTrain
I guess I'll play devils advocate. I know corn isn't the answer to ethanol, but to cry about losing 800 jobs is just crazy. Think about all the jobs that where created by building ethanol plants and the personal it takes to keep the plants running. I'm sure it offsets the lost jobs. I don't know what its like up in the Dallas area, but we have several tyson farms and a Plant just out side of San Antonio. Let me put it to you like this. I'd bet money that 90% of their workforce isn't here legally. So yall are going to cry about some illegals losing their jobs and having to go back to mexico.
Roughly 150,000 U.S. jobs in 2005 alone.

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post #35 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 01:18 AM
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The weird thing is, none of the ethanol refineries are operating anywhere close to capacity, and a few of the smaller producers are talking about having temporary layoffs and shutdowns. There just isn't a huge market demand yet for E85, because they don't want to push it yet. Damn ADM anyway. Those fuckers get more corn subsidies than real farmers, and for what? HFC 55 production? Fuck 'em!

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post #36 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreightTrain
I guess I'll play devils advocate. I know corn isn't the answer to ethanol, but to cry about losing 800 jobs is just crazy. Think about all the jobs that where created by building ethanol plants and the personal it takes to keep the plants running. I'm sure it offsets the lost jobs. I don't know what its like up in the Dallas area, but we have several tyson farms and a Plant just out side of San Antonio. Let me put it to you like this. I'd bet money that 90% of their workforce isn't here legally. So yall are going to cry about some illegals losing their jobs and having to go back to mexico.
You make a valid point, but what happens to all of the jobs "created" around ethanol, when they decide that's not the way to go...and they will. Then you have millions of acres of corn on the ground that will be worthless. It's a gov't subsidized fad that will run it's course.

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post #37 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 10:24 AM
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It has already run its course once. Remember Gasohol? What a bunch of fucking bullshit.
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post #38 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 10:26 AM
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it was annoying to listen to preach the virtues of E85.

and now having to listen to people complain about E85 is just as bad.

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post #39 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeb
going tomorrow for the .50 boneless wings. I tried the jerk seasoning (good) and the asian zing seasoning (good), any other suggestions this side of blistering hot?
Permesean Garlic is a good choice too !!


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post #40 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 10:42 AM
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It has already run its course once. Remember Gasohol? What a bunch of fucking bullshit.
I forgot. The overall "greenhouse effect" of ethanol ain't no bargain, either. If you get the treehugger's against it, it'll be deader than disco inside a month...

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post #41 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 11:27 AM
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I forgot. The overall "greenhouse effect" of ethanol ain't no bargain, either. If you get the treehugger's against it, it'll be deader than disco inside a month...
I read somewhere that it takes 1.5 galons on fossil fuel to create 1 gallon of E-85.

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post #42 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 11:31 AM
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I read somewhere that it takes 1.5 galons on fossil fuel to create 1 gallon of E-85.

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Yep. Just robbing Peter to pay Paul. When folks figure out the "true" cost of ethanol, gasoline will look like a bargain.

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post #43 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 11:35 AM
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Yep. Just robbing Peter to pay Paul. When folks figure out the "true" cost of ethanol, gasoline will look like a bargain.

Agreed....and keep in mine it's only .10-.15c cheaper per gallon than gas and it's being subsidized by the govt. If the govt subsidy comes off it will be more expensive than gas.

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post #44 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 12:04 PM
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Agreed....and keep in mine it's only .10-.15c cheaper per gallon than gas and it's being subsidized by the govt. If the govt subsidy comes off it will be more expensive than gas.

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.15c cheaper, and 30% drop in mpg's, sounds like a losing proposition to me...

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post #45 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 12:52 PM
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Yep. Just robbing Peter to pay Paul. When folks figure out the "true" cost of ethanol, gasoline will look like a bargain.


Robbing Peter to pay Paul is what government, and business is all about. I do it on an hourly basis.


Not saying it's right, just saying...
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post #46 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 01:38 PM
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Hey as long as its cheaper than race fuel ill run it in the race cars lol. I dont know about the .10-.15 cheaper its still at 2.59 at kroger while 87oct is 3.29

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post #47 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 01:53 PM
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I read somewhere that it takes 1.5 galons on fossil fuel to create 1 gallon of E-85.

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Not necessarily.

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post #48 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 04:26 PM
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Simple question...If ethanol, based on that chart, has almost twice the energy as gasoline, why does it get 67% of the gas mileage? In the real world, that's not an energy savings by any stretch.

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post #49 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertnut
Simple question...If ethanol, based on that chart, has almost twice the energy as gasoline, why does it get 67% of the gas mileage? In the real world, that's not an energy savings by any stretch.
I believe that the chart is indicating the amount of energy gained (or lost) vs. the energy required to produce it. Ethanol is indicating that 1.34 energy is gained per 1.0 energy used to produce it. It is interesting that gasoline apparently yields less energy than what is used to produce it according to that chart, and if that information is accurate (and i'm not saying that it is) then you guys should be blasting gasoline, not ethanol. At any rate, this is an interesting topic to discuss.
mikeb is offline  
post #50 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 05:58 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ellis County
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeb
I believe that the chart is indicating the amount of energy gained (or lost) vs. the energy required to produce it. Ethanol is indicating that 1.34 energy is gained per 1.0 energy used to produce it. It is interesting that gasoline apparently yields less energy than what is used to produce it according to that chart, and if that information is accurate (and i'm not saying that it is) then you guys should be blasting gasoline, not ethanol. At any rate, this is an interesting topic to discuss.
Gasoline is VERY good at what it does, and has withstood the test of time and umpteen geniuses' who tried to find another substitute. I'm not buying into ethanol at all...at least not yet.

CHL holder and Conservative...AKA "Domestic Terrorist"
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