Is Global Cooling FINALLY opening a REAL debate on Global Warming? - DFWstangs Forums
 
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-09-2008, 09:41 AM Thread Starter
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Is Global Cooling FINALLY opening a REAL debate on Global Warming?

One of the big things I've absolutely hated about the Global Warming debate is that there has never been a real debate. Supporters of Global Warming theory have gone so far to say that "deniers" are no better than criminals. Now, with global temperatures collapsing over the last year, a real debate is STARTING to emerge. One is if Global Warming really has been caused by human influences. The other is if we really are on the verge of a new ice age. Its about damn time.

Now can we get the damn politicians and activists out of it and let the REAL scientists tell us whats going on?

Quote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/m...-mostviewedbox

Climate dissent grows hotter as chill deepens

Last week, virtually unreported in Britain, the extraordinary winter weather of 2008 elsewhere in the world continued. In the USA, there were blizzards as far south as Texas and Arkansas, while in northern states and Canada what they are calling "the winter from hell" has continued to break records going back in some cases to 1873. Meanwhile in Asia more details emerged of the catastrophe caused by the northern hemisphere's greatest snow cover since 1966.
# Read more from Christopher Booker

In Afghanistan, where they have lost 300,000 cattle, the human death toll has risen above 1,500. In China, the havoc created by what its media call "the Winter Snow Disaster" has continued, not least in Tibet, where six months of snow and record low temperatures have killed 500,000 animals, leaving 3 million people on the edge of starvation.

It might have seemed timely that in New York an array of leading climatologists and other experts should have gathered for the most high-powered international conference yet to question the "consensus" on global warming. After three days of what the chairman called "the kind of free-spirited debate that is virtually absent from the global warming alarmist camp", the 500 delegates issued the Manhattan Declaration, stating that attempts by governments to reduce CO2 emissions would "markedly diminish further prosperity" while having "no appreciable impact" on the Earth's warming.

This inevitably attracted the kind of hysterical abuse that has become so familiar from warmist fanatics, tellingly contrasting with the measured arguments put forward by the scientists present. One was Anthony Watts, the meteorologist who last year famously forced Nasa's Goddard Institute to correct a fundamental error in its data on US surface temperatures, to show that the hottest decade of the 20th century was not the 1990s but the 1930s.

On his website, Watts Up With That, he is currently posting a corrected version of the global temperature graph, combining satellite and surface data from all four main official sources. A measure of his scrupulous reporting is that although this shows a recent dramatic dip in temperatures, he cautiously explains that it is not yet conclusive evidence that the world has entered a new cooling phase (as he points out, there was temporarily an even sharper drop after the "peak" El Niņo year 1998).

But can we doubt that, if the data showed the opposite, the media would be rushing to report this as yet further "proof" that the planet is heating out of control? The fact is that, for all their caveats that this drop in temperatures can be explained by the cooling effect of La Niņa, the official orthodoxy that "more CO2 means more warming" is facing its most serious challenge yet. In light of the colossal price we are all in so many ways being asked to pay for it, the data in coming years will be more than interesting.

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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-09-2008, 10:39 AM
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Funny how liberals want to listen to "science" when it comes to evolution or stem cell research, but ignore the facts when it doesn't benefit their politics...

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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-09-2008, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt Beavis
In Afghanistan, where they have lost 300,000 cattle, the human death toll has risen above 1,500. In China, the havoc created by what its media call "the Winter Snow Disaster" has continued, not least in Tibet, where six months of snow and record low temperatures have killed 500,000 animals, leaving 3 million people on the edge of starvation.
I have never been one to support human caused global warming. The above paragraph reenforces my view that it would be better for the earth to warm than to cool. In the 1800's crops in Europe and America failed causing famine. If the earth cooled and we had world wide crop failures, today's $3.00/gallon gas would be cheap compared with $10 loaf of bread.
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-09-2008, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasDevilDog
I have never been one to support human caused global warming. The above paragraph reenforces my view that it would be better for the earth to warm than to cool. In the 1800's crops in Europe and America failed causing famine. If the earth cooled and we had world wide crop failures, today's $3.00/gallon gas would be cheap compared with $10 loaf of bread.
...and in the mean-time, all the efforts and finance have gone the wrong direction, and the world should focus on growing more corn to eat, not burn in our vehicles.

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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-09-2008, 01:26 PM
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bout time

I have watched the global warming debate and have often presented a challenge
to the warming crowd.
First, show me that global warming is actually happening.
Not just a years or 2 of different temp.

Second, Show me that it is a bad thing!

Third, Prove that it is being caused by mans activity and what this activity is.

Fourth, Show me what I might do to prevent or adapt to these changes.
Not just pay the government money to monitor it.

So far I have not had anyone convince me past question 1.
If question 1 can be answered Yes then we would move to question 2.
IF 2 is Yes then we can move to number 3.

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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-09-2008, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertnut
...and in the mean-time, all the efforts and finance have gone the wrong direction, and the world should focus on growing more corn to eat, not burn in our vehicles.
I totally agree. I wrote and gave a speech in college last year on how corn based ethanol is the wrong answer.
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-09-2008, 02:52 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertnut
...and in the mean-time, all the efforts and finance have gone the wrong direction, and the world should focus on growing more corn to eat, not burn in our vehicles.
Damn Skippy.

IMO, Ethanol will be fine when they got the celulostic process perfected and the cost down to something manageable but making it from corn is simply stupid...

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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-09-2008, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasDevilDog
I have never been one to support human caused global warming. The above paragraph reenforces my view that it would be better for the earth to warm than to cool. In the 1800's crops in Europe and America failed causing famine. If the earth cooled and we had world wide crop failures, today's $3.00/gallon gas would be cheap compared with $10 loaf of bread.
Are you talking about the few years attributed to the krakatoa volvano?
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-09-2008, 03:07 PM
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Besides even if the earth really were warming up, I find it funny that humans think we can have a big enough influence over such a large cycle that we still don't fully understand. Outside of a nuclear winter, we're nothing more than a few seconds on the timeline. If the earth gets too warm and the ice caps melt, the deep ocean currents will start to break down and moisture transfer will be reversed anyways so that the climate can be right for more glacial accumulation.
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-10-2008, 08:43 AM
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I don't understand why people are so hell-bent on trying to detect changes by a few degrees cooler or warmer. If you really want to predict changes in the world's climate, you need to watch wind patterns.
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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-10-2008, 08:50 AM
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1 volcano eruption = 50 years of auto pollution, yet we pay $3.65 a gallon for ultra low sulfur diesel.
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-10-2008, 09:18 AM
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I still go back to the fact that the weater guessers cannot accurately predict tomorrow's weather using the best technology currently available, and yet we are to believe this same technology when it predicts global warming?

Follow the money.
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-10-2008, 02:32 PM
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-10-2008, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BP
1 volcano eruption = 50 years of auto pollution, yet we pay $3.65 a gallon for ultra low sulfur diesel.
Stop making intelligent remarks.
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt Beavis
Damn Skippy.

IMO, Ethanol will be fine when they got the celulostic process perfected and the cost down to something manageable but making it from corn is simply stupid...
I thought they are saying algae is more efficient for production on the internet?

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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-12-2008, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by futant
I thought they are saying algae is more efficient for production on the internet?
On the internet sure, but in real life neither has any big gain in store.

The answer is plasma reformation, powered mostly by nuclear plants feeding coal gassification and methanol production. That is efficient today. Bush wasn't just blowing smoke about the "hydrogen economy". It's a matter of haqrnessing the hydrogen in a transportable form that drives the reality.
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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertnut
Funny how liberals want to listen to "science" when it comes to evolution or stem cell research, but ignore the facts when it doesn't benefit their politics...
Of what facts do you speak of them ignoring when they do not benefit their 'politics'?? What scientific facts are there that do not benefit their politics?

Furthermore--there are no 'facts'--only interpretations.

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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 04:44 PM
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You guys EVER seen it snow in March?

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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 05:24 PM
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March and April actually.

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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathustra
You guys EVER seen it snow in March?
Back in the 1930s and 40s Texas got 6" of snow in March a couple of times.
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post #21 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathustra
You guys EVER seen it snow in March?
In West Texas, all the time.

Hell I've seen a couple inches on the ground in Houston. Its been awhile though, that was the year you could actually see Skylab burning the atmosphere.
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post #22 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BP
1 volcano eruption = 50 years of auto pollution, yet we pay $3.65 a gallon for ultra low sulfur diesel.
it's all about keeping the wheels turning and who gets to grease them...

if there's money to be made, someone will try to make it... and if you can make people feel obligated to pay it, more power to you (literally! unfortunately)
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post #23 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AL P
Back in the 1930s and 40s Texas got 6" of snow in March a couple of times.
Right on, I had no idea. Thanks for the info!

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This will help everyone out, check it.
It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
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post #24 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-13-2008, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper
In West Texas, all the time.

Hell I've seen a couple inches on the ground in Houston. Its been awhile though, that was the year you could actually see Skylab burning the atmosphere.
Huh, go figure.

I had no idea...

I walked outside the other day and saw 8 fuckin inches on the ground, I about shit my pants.

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This will help everyone out, check it.
It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
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