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post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 07:59 AM Thread Starter
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It's was that damned American Dream again

Hey Homeowners, Bush Blames You -- Not Iraq -- for Our Tanking Economy

"Bush: And as people are now beginning to see, Iraq is changing, democracy is beginning to tak[e] hold. And I'm convinced 50 years from now people look back and say thank God there was those who were willing to sacrifice.

"Curry: But you're saying you're going to have to carry that burden … Some Americans believe that they feel they're carrying the burden because of this economy.

"Bush: Yeah, well --

"Curry: They say -- they say they're suffering because of this.

"Bush: I don't agree with that.

"Curry: You don't agree with that? Has nothing do with the economy, the war? The spending on the war?


"Bush: I don't think so. I think actually, the spending on the war might help with jobs.


"Curry: Oh, yeah?

"Bush: Yeah, because we're buying equipment, and people are working. I think this economy is down because we built too many houses."

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/78141/?page=1

As usual I think he's a little bit right and a bunch wrong.

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post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 08:08 AM
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He is correct that in war time there is more jobs, and most of history does prove that war helps the economy. Afterall what got us out of the great depresion?
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post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 08:22 AM
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Sorry but GW lost me as a supporter a long time ago. The Surge is a long overdue strategy that should have happened on day one of the invasion and it only took him 6 years to figure it out. That, his domestic policies, his immigration stance, and his lack of spending discipline all make him one of the worst Republican's I've ever voted for.

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post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 08:27 AM
 
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Of COURSE he doesn't know why the economy's bad.

He doesn't even know what the price of gas is, or will be.

Just like his dad, in the '92 debates, when they asked the candidates how much a gallon of gas or loaf of bread is. Herbert had no idea. Head in the clouds. Silver spoon in mouth.

Personally, I believe this economy would've tanked with or without the war. I think the magic ingredient is Bush. He's an honorable man, who had no business being president.
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post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpamp
Of COURSE he doesn't know why the economy's bad.

He doesn't even know what the price of gas is, or will be.

Just like his dad, in the '92 debates, when they asked the candidates how much a gallon of gas or loaf of bread is. Herbert had no idea. Head in the clouds. Silver spoon in mouth.

Personally, I believe this economy would've tanked with or without the war. I think the magic ingredient is Bush. He's an honorable man, who had no business being president.
And you really think obama would have done better under the same set of circumstances? If he was pres after 9/11 we would be fucked, but we would have $2500 health care for everyone.
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post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 09:15 AM
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It is the Sub Prime fiasco that is tanking the economy thanks to all the Sheeple running out and over extending their credit and buying crap they can't afford, well it's a major component of the issue. So he is partially right.

If we had a Democrat as a President right now the economy would be tanked off a failed socialist healthcare system and an overburdened tax system for the "everyone deserves all the hand outs they want" mentality. So it seems we are screwed either way.

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post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpamp
Of COURSE he doesn't know why the economy's bad.

He doesn't even know what the price of gas is, or will be.

Just like his dad, in the '92 debates, when they asked the candidates how much a gallon of gas or loaf of bread is. Herbert had no idea. Head in the clouds. Silver spoon in mouth.

Personally, I believe this economy would've tanked with or without the war. I think the magic ingredient is Bush. He's an honorable man, who had no business being president.
what would your boy Obama have done different/better? in detail please.

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post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67camino
He is correct that in war time there is more jobs, and most of history does prove that war helps the economy. Afterall what got us out of the great depresion?
That's true if you gear to build weapons as in WWII. But throughout this war we've built nothing, no new military contracts. So the aircraft & other weaponry are wearing out FAST, we have even run short on munitions at times. Our military is half the size it was in 1988.

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post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White trash wagon
That's true if you gear to build weapons as in WWII. But throughout this war we've built nothing, no new military contracts. So the aircraft & other weaponry are wearing out FAST, we have even run short on munitions at times. Our military is half the size it was in 1988.

Scott
You can thank our last democratic pres. for that. Thanks Slick Willie
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post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 12:26 PM
 
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LMAO..im sorry, bush may fuck up a lot but you have to be a dense moron if you think he got America in the mortgage/credit crisis. Greedy banks and ignorant wannabe millionaires got us here by over-extending their credit "betting" that equity would save them in the end. Thats like blaming the governer of NV for losing your savings account at a Casino

And yes he didnt handle the war perfectly (hindsight is always 20/20) and you also fail to realize that while he is the figure to blame he isnt behind every decision. You also dont realize that he cant always do whats best/what he wants because of political red tape..the democrats slow everything up and the bullshit media keeps our own country in controversey 24/7. Its always easy to be a back seat driver but no one wants to take the wheel Nor do they even know how to! Bush did get in over his head but atleast we'll survive, cant say the same had dipshit obama been in office this past 8 years...im sure our economy would be THRIVING

We need a president who can step in and say fuck the media and fuck the hippy wannabes and take care of business in the Middle East and not worry about how the world "perceives" us. Then they need to clean up our economy and stop un-needed government spending. No stupid government programs and universal healthcare..we need smaller government not bigger
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post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 12:58 PM
 
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The biggest problem guys is the fact that the Federal Reserve is NOT BEING REGULATED! Printing too much money for the Gov't and the People with nothing to back it up, and we're giving it out to irresponsible people at 10x the rate we used to!
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post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 01:02 PM
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Apparently, the American dream is making a move away from owning your home to staying current on your credit card debt.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/...it-cards_N.htm
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post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slow99
Apparently, the American dream is making a move away from owning your home to staying current on your credit card debt.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/...it-cards_N.htm
Well, hell yea. I anticipate between a 25-50K increase in income this year. I didn't want to wait around for the money so I went out on bought a 911 Turbo on a 72 month note.

My wife is also looking for a new house.

That should take care of the increase if we're a little under on the income increase... no worries... we can always live on the credit cards.

My 401K is now a 400K (was 301K)
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post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 01:43 PM
 
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"Everything's going up — dairy, gas, home taxes," says Christie Carlson, 34, a single mother of five children, ages 5 to 14, in Tomah, Wis., who enrolled in a debt-management program after racking up $20,000 in card debt. "I'm trying to pay more for everything in cash, but it's just impossible. It's not feasible right now to stop spending on the credit card."


She should have stopped opening her legs maybe Condoms are cheaper and she could have put them on a credit card even
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post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 01:59 PM
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Reality check

We have a cyclical economy and it goes up and down. Its not Bush, Clinton or Reagan-omics. If you look closely enough, nothing really follows a nice smooth curve. The American economy grew 40% between 1970 and 1990, despite energy crises, wars, and recessions. The blame game is a political ploy to manipulate the ignorant. I am no GWB supporter (except as an American Citizen to a American President--that's a big one), but if he was president for 8 more years the economy would recover all the same, as if he were not. Don't believe the hype, take the advice above and be responsible with YOUR money. Its all you can control.

Income is what comes out of the faucet, wealth is what stays in the bucket. Worry about YOUR BUCKET.

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post #16 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 02:17 PM
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One of the major channels had a segment on people who were getting evicted from their houses. One lady made 75k/yr living in a 250k house...with an arm loan. The arm finally reached out and smacked her...she couldn't afford the payments.

I often wonder about the economy. It takes so long for things to occur, stuff that Bush is doing now, will not take affect until after he is gone and Hussein is in office. Same can be said when Bush came into office. I wonder how much of this occurs?
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post #17 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 02:19 PM
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lmao at the american people carrying the "burden" of Bush's war, economically.

people need to get their own fucking finances in line before they start talking about the finances of other people, much less their own government.

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post #18 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 05:35 PM
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I don't completely disagree with him.

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post #19 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by black01gt
[B]
As usual I think he's a little bit right and a bunch wrong.
Right on the nose.

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This will help everyone out, check it.
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post #20 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOHC
lmao at the american people carrying the "burden" of Bush's war, economically.

people need to get their own fucking finances in line before they start talking about the finances of other people, much less their own government.
Yea they've only spent like 30 trillion dollars in Iraq, you know nothing big. Those people that make 3k a month need to get their shit straight!!


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---
This will help everyone out, check it.
It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
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post #21 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blak2000GT
The biggest problem guys is the fact that the Federal Reserve is NOT BEING REGULATED! Printing too much money for the Gov't and the People with nothing to back it up, and we're giving it out to irresponsible people at 10x the rate we used to!
They're immune. Not part of the government, and it's operators are higher than any government position.

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---
This will help everyone out, check it.
It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
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post #22 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 05:54 PM
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If it wasnt for the Japs and uncle Adolf, we'd probably still be in a depression.
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post #23 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 06:55 PM
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...

If people are going to blame the consumers for over reaching their budgets, they should make sure they give PLENTY of blame to the people who've continually encouraged it with 0% financing on autos, low interest rates on credit card, houses, etc, doing everything they can to keep people's confidence up and keep the money flowing. Sooner or later, though, the debts add up and people quit spending money they don't have in the first place. Unfortunately, the con artists doing the encouraging won't feel the heat like the dumbass consumers who bought into it.

Last edited by line-em-up; 02-29-2008 at 08:30 PM.
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post #24 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67camino
You can thank our last democratic pres. for that. Thanks Slick Willie
Check your history, the largest cuts in defense spending in the last 40 years were under George HW Bush. After the Soviet Union fell, these HUGE cuts were part of the so-called "peace dividend". Clinton didn't stop it, but Bush Sr started it.
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post #25 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathustra
Yea they've only spent like 30 trillion dollars in Iraq, you know nothing big. Those people that make 3k a month need to get their shit straight!!

I'm not saying that the government doesn't need to get their shit under control, but it's laughable to hear someone who makes $18k a year and spends $40k a year talk about the government's spending.

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post #26 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 08:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SOHC
I'm not saying that the government doesn't need to get their shit under control, but it's laughable to hear someone who makes $18k a year and spends $40k a year talk about the government's spending.
No use explaining it..apparently the point in government is to keep us from making bad decisions with money and if we do to bail us out

I guess people dont get that had the government not spent a dime on the war our economy would still be down the shitter becase the war has nothing to do with the Sup-prime mess. History shows that wars generally help the economy...but wtf does history know!
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post #27 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thats M Life
History shows that wars generally help the economy...but wtf does history know!
History has shown that in one specific instance that is generally accepted, and that's WWII, and the circumstances surrounding that were far different than they are today.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find too many instances where a war did much to help the economy. Texas certainly was fucked when we gained our independence back in the day due to the debt we owed.

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post #28 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 08:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOHC
History has shown that in one specific instance that is generally accepted, and that's WWII, and the circumstances surrounding that were far different than they are today.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find too many instances where a war did much to help the economy. Texas certainly was fucked when we gained
our independence back in the day due to the debt we owed.
Than are you saying it hurts our economy? Or are you saying its more neutral?
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post #29 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-29-2008, 11:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Pro88LX
what would your boy Obama have done different/better? in detail please.
So... I'm supposed to lay out what Barack Obama would've done, had he been given the last 8 years? I can make it up, right? Since it's hypothetical... yet you want detail... He'd probably know THAT GAS IS ON IT'S WAY TO $4 A GALLON.

Your request is silly, at best.
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post #30 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-01-2008, 08:52 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thats M Life
Than are you saying it hurts our economy? Or are you saying its more neutral?
It's killing our economy. It's killing the economy of our kids. $12,500,000,000.00 per month for corrupted and stolen funds= blue sky. $13 Billion borrowed from China and given to Pakistan and nobody knows where it went. What do you think? This is not a difficult concept to see.

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post #31 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-01-2008, 09:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by black01gt
It's killing our economy. It's killing the economy of our kids. $12,500,000,000.00 per month for corrupted and stolen funds= blue sky. $13 Billion borrowed from China and given to Pakistan and nobody knows where it went. What do you think? This is not a difficult concept to see.
uh huh...so you think that without this war there would be no economy crisis right now? You do pay attention to whats going on in our economy right? So what was the cause of our economy downfall in 2000-2001? The answer lies in Americans letting their guard down economically and letting excesses build up...kinda like the old saying what goes up must come down...its like a cycle, try looking at history, it does repeat itself in more ways then one. I think the downfall of our economy just so happened to coincide with teh war giving everyone something to blame it on instead of blaming themselves and their fellow americans. There are plenty of other bullshit things our government spends money on
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post #32 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-01-2008, 10:11 PM
 
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Business Cycles, Past Recessions (Peaks and Troughs) of US Economy

Here's a great article IMO that I think some of you need to read before you jump to conclusions thinking the War caused or is the leading cause of the recession. If thats the case please point out how wars in the past led to recessions???
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post #33 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-01-2008, 10:43 PM
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no recession yet

last quarter had growth, the definition of a recession is 6 months of no growth.

In macroeconomics, a recession is a decline in a country's gross domestic product (GDP), or negative real economic growth, for two or more successive quarters of a year. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession

The economy grew at an annual rate of 0.6 percent in the fourth quarter, compared with 4.9 percent in the third,
according to the “preliminary” estimate released by the Bureau of Economic Analysis. http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/nati...highlights.pdf
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post #34 of 34 (permalink) Old 03-02-2008, 10:09 AM Thread Starter
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[QUOTE=Thats M Life]uh huh...
Quote:
so you think that without this war there would be no economy crisis right now?
I didn't say that.

Quote:
You do pay attention to whats going on in our economy right? So what was the cause of our economy downfall in 2000-2001?
I didn't notice that there was one. Gas = $1.50. Reasonable utilities. Insurance was already a pain in the ass.

Quote:
The answer lies in Americans letting their guard down economically and letting excesses build up...
So you think Americans collectively have any control over it? It can't be made "idiot proof".

Quote:
I think the downfall of our economy just so happened to coincide with teh war giving everyone something to blame it on instead of blaming themselves and their fellow americans.
There's no way to not factor it in as a major cause. A lot could be done for the USA with the trillion$ that are going elsewhere for nada.

Quote:
There are plenty of other bullshit things our government spends money on
No argument there. The adoption of millions of needy foriegners first comes to mind.

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