Terrorist plot thwarted with INVASIVE DOMESTIC SPYING!!!! - DFWstangs Forums
 
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post #1 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-11-2006, 07:36 AM Thread Starter
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Terrorist plot thwarted with INVASIVE DOMESTIC SPYING!!!!

Time Magazine is reporting that the terrorist plot to blow up ten planes siimulateneously over the Atlantic was foiled by American intelligence agencies exercising the warrantless phone tapping ability granted by the Patriot Act.

So for the civil liberty buffs, which is better? Stopping terrorists that plan to destroy lives (and a HUGE chunk of our financial sector - aviation) by using potentially invasive means, or just let them do it?

Yes this is a serious question. I can see an argument for protection of civil liberties, ie, innocence until proven guilty. But in this instance I'm glad the act wasn't allowed to be carried out.
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post #2 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-11-2006, 08:57 AM
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I think there should be some sort of limit on the practice. IE, can only be admissable for acts of terrorism, etc...
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post #3 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-11-2006, 09:01 AM
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i have nothing of any importance to say ever, so i dont give a shit who is listening to what i say on the phone.

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post #4 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-11-2006, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by AL P
I think there should be some sort of limit on the practice. IE, can only be admissable for acts of terrorism, etc...
I think that this is already the case. The warrantless phone taps cannot be used in a criminal proceeding. They would only be used for intelligence gathering. The evidence to be used in court would have to be obtained somewhere else.

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post #5 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-11-2006, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by AL P
I think there should be some sort of limit on the practice. IE, can only be admissable for acts of terrorism, etc...
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post #6 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-11-2006, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by 90 Notch
I think that this is already the case. The warrantless phone taps cannot be used in a criminal proceeding. They would only be used for intelligence gathering. The evidence to be used in court would have to be obtained somewhere else.
However doesn't the Patriot Act allow for getting a warrant after the fact, therefor making the evidence admissable?

Being a die hard Libertarian I have a hard time giving up any civil liberty because once you do you'll never get it back without force. However in the interest of national security I'll give the feds a pass on tapping phone lines. It wouldn't even be an issue if the NY Times didn't have a habit of leaking classified material.

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post #7 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-11-2006, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by BP
However doesn't the Patriot Act allow for getting a warrant after the fact, therefor making the evidence admissable?

Being a die hard Libertarian I have a hard time giving up any civil liberty because once you do you'll never get it back without force. However in the interest of national security I'll give the feds a pass on tapping phone lines. It wouldn't even be an issue if the NY Times didn't have a habit of leaking classified material.
The feds might allow that retroactive warrant stuff. My knowledge of federal laws/evidence admissablitiy is pretty limited.

I know the old law required that they get a warrant pretty soon after getting a wiretap, but I don't know if that was for evidence purposes of just for judicial oversight.

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post #8 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-11-2006, 12:49 PM
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post #9 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-11-2006, 03:51 PM
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That's Leslie's black cock hotline and its a local call. I wonder who that could be??? Hmmm...........
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post #10 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-11-2006, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 46Tbird
Time Magazine is reporting that the terrorist plot to blow up ten planes siimulateneously over the Atlantic was foiled by American intelligence agencies exercising the warrantless phone tapping ability granted by the Patriot Act.

So for the civil liberty buffs, which is better? Stopping terrorists that plan to destroy lives (and a HUGE chunk of our financial sector - aviation) by using potentially invasive means, or just let them do it?

Yes this is a serious question. I can see an argument for protection of civil liberties, ie, innocence until proven guilty. But in this instance I'm glad the act wasn't allowed to be carried out.

That's odd.....I thought the British Government caught these terrorist? You know, those limeys who don't even let thier cops carry guns.

I did some looking around the Time website, and most of the intel WAS gathered by British MI5, but the breakthrough came the Muslims themselves:

A tip from a member of the British Muslim community about suspicious behavior by an acquaintance alerted authorities to the alleged conspiracy, and a neighbor of the alleged plotters helped confirm those suspicions, the memo said.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe...lot/index.html

That's a CNN link from the top of the Time site.

I wondered how long it would be before someone here would try to credit Bush for this. Oh, and since all of the communication was between Britain and Pakistan.....how would that have been domestic spying?

Scott

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post #11 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-13-2006, 06:52 PM
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Pair of UK terrorists planned to take their child along on the Jihad flight.

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegrap...001021,00.html

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A HUSBAND and wife arrested in the British terror raids allegedly planned to take their six-month-old baby on a mid-air suicide mission.

Scotland Yard police are quizzing Abdula Ahmed Ali, 25, and his 23-year-old wife Cossor over suspicions they were to use their baby's bottle to hide a liquid bomb.

The theory is one of the reasons security chiefs are now insisting mothers taste babies' milk at check-in desks before allowing them to take bottles aboard flights.
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post #12 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-13-2006, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by White trash wagon
That's odd.....I thought the British Government caught these terrorist? You know, those limeys who don't even let thier cops carry guns.

I did some looking around the Time website, and most of the intel WAS gathered by British MI5, but the breakthrough came the Muslims themselves:

A tip from a member of the British Muslim community about suspicious behavior by an acquaintance alerted authorities to the alleged conspiracy, and a neighbor of the alleged plotters helped confirm those suspicions, the memo said.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe...lot/index.html

That's a CNN link from the top of the Time site.

I wondered how long it would be before someone here would try to credit Bush for this. Oh, and since all of the communication was between Britain and Pakistan.....how would that have been domestic spying?

Scott
"No one here" gave Bush credit. It was said that Time magazine was reporting that. God forbid our President might have done something right. The Dems are in utter fear that they might not gain any control in the house/senate.

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post #13 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-13-2006, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Vertnut
"No one here" gave Bush credit. It was said that Time magazine was reporting that. God forbid our President might have done something right. The Dems are in utter fear that they might not gain any control in the house/senate.
But, didn't w authorize the illegal wire taps?
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post #14 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-13-2006, 07:58 PM
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"No one here" gave Bush credit. It was said that Time magazine was reporting that. God forbid our President might have done something right. The Dems are in utter fear that they might not gain any control in the house/senate.
Well geeh....since 46tbird said that:

Time Magazine is reporting that the terrorist plot to blow up ten planes siimulateneously over the Atlantic was foiled by American intelligence agencies exercising the warrantless phone tapping ability granted by the Patriot Act.

And then 46tbird's title gives credit to "invasive domerstic spying",he kinda gives credit to Bush since he is ultimately in charge of US intelligence. But since the British MI-5 did most of the intel work, I was giving credit where credit is due THANKS BRITIAN!!!!

And as far as the fall elections...that will be up to the american people, as it always has.

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post #15 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-14-2006, 08:25 AM Thread Starter
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Come on man, I never said anything about Bush. "I wondered how long it would be before someone here would try to say I was giving Bush credit for this. " Ding ding ding we have a winner.

Anyway, the report I heard (over the radio - 1080 AM to be exact) stated that British authorities were initially tipped off to the plot based on "increased chatter" over calls made between the U.S. and other foreign countries. And from what I've seen, that still appears to be the case; that the initial tip-off was from the U.S, and that further intelligence gathering and "the bust" were made by MI-5.

You completely ignored the question I posed. "So for the civil liberty buffs, which is better? Stopping terrorists that plan to destroy lives (and a HUGE chunk of our financial sector - aviation) by using potentially invasive means, or just let them do it?"
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post #16 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-14-2006, 10:35 AM
 
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Originally Posted by White trash wagon

And as far as the fall elections...that will be up to the american people, as it always has.

Scott
Or what they are CONNED into believing. It was Al Gore that tipped them off via HIS internet.
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post #17 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-14-2006, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by 46Tbird
Come on man, I never said anything about Bush. "I wondered how long it would be before someone here would try to say I was giving Bush credit for this. " Ding ding ding we have a winner.

Anyway, the report I heard (over the radio - 1080 AM to be exact) stated that British authorities were initially tipped off to the plot based on "increased chatter" over calls made between the U.S. and other foreign countries. And from what I've seen, that still appears to be the case; that the initial tip-off was from the U.S, and that further intelligence gathering and "the bust" were made by MI-5.

You completely ignored the question I posed. "So for the civil liberty buffs, which is better? Stopping terrorists that plan to destroy lives (and a HUGE chunk of our financial sector - aviation) by using potentially invasive means, or just let them do it?"
OK, I'll withdraw my assertion that anyone on this board credited Bush with the bust.

But your title is still incorrect since "invasive domestic spying" is not applicable here since these were international calls, as is your statement that this attack was foiled by the USA.

Now as to why the US was listening to calls between Britian and Pakistan creates a question. Is the US now listening to all calls on the planet? But that does not break any US laws I know of.

But back to domestic eaves dropping and other losses of civil liberties. History demonstrates that once a government takes away a civil liberty, they don't give it back, it has to be TAKEN back with a resultant spilling of blood.

I'd be curious to know if Britians's MI-5 violated any of Britian's civil liberties to obtain the intel used in this investigation.

Scott
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post #18 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-14-2006, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by White trash wagon
OK, I'll withdraw my assertion that anyone on this board credited Bush with the bust.

But your title is still incorrect since "invasive domestic spying" is not applicable here since these were international calls, as is your statement that this attack was foiled by the USA.

Now as to why the US was listening to calls between Britian and Pakistan creates a question. Is the US now listening to all calls on the planet? But that does not break any US laws I know of.

But back to domestic eaves dropping and other losses of civil liberties. History demonstrates that once a government takes away a civil liberty, they don't give it back, it has to be TAKEN back with a resultant spilling of blood.

I'd be curious to know if Britians's MI-5 violated any of Britian's civil liberties to obtain the intel used in this investigation.

Scott
So in hindsight it poses the question: is it better to leave everyone's current "rights" intact, and allow the impending deaths of "X" amount of innocent people? Just asking. Would it have been worth saving the 3,xxx lives in the twin towers, or not let "Big Brother" eavesdrop? How many lives is it worth? 3x,xxx?

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post #19 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-14-2006, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Vertnut
So in hindsight it poses the question: is it better to leave everyone's current "rights" intact, and allow the impending deaths of "X" amount of innocent people? Just asking. Would it have been worth saving the 3,xxx lives in the twin towers, or not let "Big Brother" eavesdrop? How many lives is it worth? 3x,xxx?
I would rather keep my rights and take a chance that a raghead is going to kill me than end up living under the watchful eye of big brother. People will die for it, but hasn't that already happened? How many soldiers have died for the cost of our freedom? Freedom isn't free. People are always knocking the "liberals" for wanting to give the government too much control, but then these same people are advocating our own government spying on us.
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post #20 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-14-2006, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by line-em-up
I would rather keep my rights and take a chance that a raghead is going to kill me than end up living under the watchful eye of big brother. People will die for it, but hasn't that already happened? How many soldiers have died for the cost of our freedom? Freedom isn't free. People are always knocking the "liberals" for wanting to give the government too much control, but then these same people are advocating our own government spying on us.
Since when does the government monitoring calls going overseas equate to the government spying on us? Sorry, I just don't see it in a post 9/11 world. I would be agreeing in no uncertain terms in pre-9/11 America.

I hope you don't think you are never "spied" on in that general context. I would also rather be well-equipped, well-armed, and ready to fight the enemy like our sldiers are, than trying to watch for a plane hitting me or some dirty bomb going off in my town.

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post #21 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-14-2006, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertnut
So in hindsight it poses the question: is it better to leave everyone's current "rights" intact, and allow the impending deaths of "X" amount of innocent people? Just asking. Would it have been worth saving the 3,xxx lives in the twin towers, or not let "Big Brother" eavesdrop? How many lives is it worth? 3x,xxx?
I don't think the average liberal or paranoid "big brother is watching me" weirdo can see that if we stop another major attack on our soil that the loss of the freedom/liberty that helped prevent it was worth it.

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post #22 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-14-2006, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 90 Notch
I don't think the average liberal or paranoid "big brother is watching me" weirdo can see that if we stop another major attack on our soil that the loss of the freedom/liberty that helped prevent it was worth it.
To me, it's not worth it if we have to give up our freedoms. I simply don't trust people enough to let them have access to more of my personal life than what they already do. What's ironic about that is I use to be a very trusting individual. Over the past 40 years, I've gotten more and more tired of people taking advantage of that.
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post #23 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-14-2006, 03:21 PM
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I would rather keep my rights and take a chance that a raghead is going to kill me than end up living under the watchful eye of big brother. People will die for it, but hasn't that already happened? How many soldiers have died for the cost of our freedom? Freedom isn't free. People are always knocking the "liberals" for wanting to give the government too much control, but then these same people are advocating our own government spying on us.
Well put! To take this to the extreme, I'd rather live in a world where a terrorist might be able to kill me (current risk: 3000 in 300 million every 5 years) than live in a society where the govt watches my every move.

And to completely STOP terrorism, the country would have to SEALED tight, virtually everything would have a camera pointed at it, and everyone would be have be willing to tattle on his neighbor, coworker or even relative.

Scott
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post #24 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-14-2006, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by 90 Notch
I don't think the average liberal or paranoid "big brother is watching me" weirdo can see that if we stop another major attack on our soil that the loss of the freedom/liberty that helped prevent it was worth it.
Of course they can't, they are too busy spitting the Democratic party rhetoric about how they are living in George Orwell's 1984. Then when someone they know is killed in a terrorist attack, the government "didn't do enough". It's funny how that works.
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post #25 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-14-2006, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by AL P
Of course they can't, they are too busy spitting the Democratic party rhetoric about how they are living in George Orwell's 1984. Then when someone they know is killed in a terrorist attack, the government "didn't do enough". It's funny how that works.
EXACTLY my point, Al. All this "don't take my freedom away" bullshit, is fine until it hits home...no pun intended. As "white trash" puts it, we only lost 3000 folks that day, it's not that big of a deal...yet. What if it's 30,000 next week? Feel the same way? If it's in Dallas? Makes you think a little...

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post #26 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-14-2006, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by AL P
Of course they can't, they are too busy spitting the Democratic party rhetoric about how they are living in George Orwell's 1984. Then when someone they know is killed in a terrorist attack, the government "didn't do enough". It's funny how that works.

I didn't realize that democrats had exclusive rights to that book. I'm sure that what you say has some validity to it. However, I'm sure the republicans will try to twist it to their advantage too. I don't really care what political games people want to play. The democrats AND republicans can whine, bitch and cry all they want about terrorist attacks. I just know that I'm not willing to give up my freedoms because someone might try to hurt me. I'm not going to sucumb to the terrorists' wishes by by being afraid and letting my own government take my freedoms in the name of safety. The question was asked if we were willing to do that. Just because I'm not doesn't mean you have to agree. It also doesn't make me wrong for believing what I do. I respect you for your beliefs and I would appreciate the same.
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post #27 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-15-2006, 08:15 AM
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I didn't realize that democrats had exclusive rights to that book. I'm sure that what you say has some validity to it. However, I'm sure the republicans will try to twist it to their advantage too. I don't really care what political games people want to play. The democrats AND republicans can whine, bitch and cry all they want about terrorist attacks. I just know that I'm not willing to give up my freedoms because someone might try to hurt me. I'm not going to sucumb to the terrorists' wishes by by being afraid and letting my own government take my freedoms in the name of safety. The question was asked if we were willing to do that. Just because I'm not doesn't mean you have to agree. It also doesn't make me wrong for believing what I do. I respect you for your beliefs and I would appreciate the same.
People in either political party twist things to their agenda. The problem is that after the people in the Republican party and the conservative crazies do their twisting the end result is that the FBI and Homeland Security might listen to my phone call when I talk to my crazy old aunt in Oklahoma about her dogs. Whereas after the Democratic party and the left wing fucking fruitcakes do their twisting a hundred thousand people could be killed via a dirty bomb, bio-terrorism attack, etc,etc.

As for this stuff about "respecting your beliefs". I don't recall addressing you at all. Unless you are one of the liberals or paranoid "big brother is watching me weirdos" that was the topic of conversation. Is that you?
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post #28 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-15-2006, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by AL P
Of course they can't, they are too busy spitting the Democratic party rhetoric about how they are living in George Orwell's 1984. Then when someone they know is killed in a terrorist attack, the government "didn't do enough". It's funny how that works.
Yeah, funny in a sad sort of way.

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post #29 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-15-2006, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by line-em-up
I didn't realize that democrats had exclusive rights to that book. I'm sure that what you say has some validity to it. However, I'm sure the republicans will try to twist it to their advantage too. I don't really care what political games people want to play. The democrats AND republicans can whine, bitch and cry all they want about terrorist attacks. I just know that I'm not willing to give up my freedoms because someone might try to hurt me. I'm not going to sucumb to the terrorists' wishes by by being afraid and letting my own government take my freedoms in the name of safety. The question was asked if we were willing to do that. Just because I'm not doesn't mean you have to agree. It also doesn't make me wrong for believing what I do. I respect you for your beliefs and I would appreciate the same.
Who failed to show your opinion respect? This has been about the most civil discussion on politics/terrorism I have seen on this board in awhile.

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post #30 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-15-2006, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by White trash wagon
Well put! To take this to the extreme, I'd rather live in a world where a terrorist might be able to kill me (current risk: 3000 in 300 million every 5 years) than live in a society where the govt watches my every move.

And to completely STOP terrorism, the country would have to SEALED tight, virtually everything would have a camera pointed at it, and everyone would be have be willing to tattle on his neighbor, coworker or even relative.

Scott
My goal is to protect my family from terrorism. Aren't we going on 5 years without a terrorist attack on American soil. Seems like Bush has accomplished the mandate I gave him: Protect me and my family from being killed by a random terrorist attack.

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post #31 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-15-2006, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by 90 Notch
My goal is to protect my family from terrorism. Aren't we going on 5 years without a terrorist attack on American soil. Seems like Bush has accomplished the mandate I gave him: Protect me and my family from being killed by a random terrorist attack.
You are forgetting that you don't count the ones that get thwarted, just the ones that suceed. You decry any method of prevention as heavy handed and then accuse everyone of not doing enough when something horrible happens.

I'm going to cry about some analyst listening to me tell my aunt Betty that I love the fruit cake she sends every year. Those bastards in the government denying my freedoms, what is next, are they going to listen to me sit on hold when I call for tech support? They will probably be mocking me while they do. Sons a bitches, my god damn phone calls are important. When I call Dickie's and tell them that I want a Turkey plate to go and I'll be there in 15 minutes I don't want anyone listening. Fuckers might go get my order. Sons a bitches.

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post #32 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-15-2006, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by AL P
You are forgetting that you don't count the ones that get thwarted, just the ones that suceed. You decry any method of prevention as heavy handed and then accuse everyone of not doing enough when something horrible happens.

I'm going to cry about some analyst listening to me tell my aunt Betty that I love the fruit cake she sends every year. Those bastards in the government denying my freedoms, what is next, are they going to listen to me sit on hold when I call for tech support? They will probably be mocking me while they do. Sons a bitches, my god damn phone calls are important. When I call Dickie's and tell them that I want a Turkey plate to go and I'll be there in 15 minutes I don't want anyone listening. Fuckers might go get my order. Sons a bitches.
Damn, if that is what your calls are about, they are way more interesting than mine!

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“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
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post #33 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-15-2006, 08:59 AM
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If anyone wants a recording of all my phone calls I'll be happy to send them out. I'm about to call Atlanta and talk about some leases.....insert scary conspiracy music here....shhhhhhhhhh, it's a secret!!
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post #34 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-15-2006, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AL P
As for this stuff about "respecting your beliefs". I don't recall addressing you at all. Unless you are one of the liberals or paranoid "big brother is watching me weirdos" that was the topic of conversation. Is that you?
1. I said, "I would rather keep my rights and take a chance that a raghead is going to kill me than end up living under the watchful eye of big brother."

2. 90 Nothch said, "I don't think the average liberal or paranoid "big brother is watching me" weirdo can see that if we stop another major attack on our soil that the loss of the freedom/liberty that helped prevent it was worth it."

3. You agreed with him, "Of course they can't, they are too busy spitting the Democratic party rhetoric about how they are living in George Orwell's 1984. "

Of course you didn't address me, but you did agree with 90 Notch when he was reponding to my post. So don't try to say that you weren't directing the comment to me. It's not really that big of a deal. My feelings aren't hurt. While I don't want anyone, including the government snooping in my affairs, I wouldn't be so quick to include myself into "big brother is watching me weirdos" group. There was no offense meant and none taken.
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post #35 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-15-2006, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by line-em-up
1. I said, "I would rather keep my rights and take a chance that a raghead is going to kill me than end up living under the watchful eye of big brother."

2. 90 Nothch said, "I don't think the average liberal or paranoid "big brother is watching me" weirdo can see that if we stop another major attack on our soil that the loss of the freedom/liberty that helped prevent it was worth it."

3. You agreed with him, "Of course they can't, they are too busy spitting the Democratic party rhetoric about how they are living in George Orwell's 1984. "

Of course you didn't address me, but you did agree with 90 Notch when he was reponding to my post. So don't try to say that you weren't directing the comment to me. It's not really that big of a deal. My feelings aren't hurt. While I don't want anyone, including the government snooping in my affairs, I wouldn't be so quick to include myself into "big brother is watching me weirdos" group. There was no offense meant and none taken.
Wow, paranoid much? If I want to aim a comment toward you, there won't be any question about it. It will be obvious.

"I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have." - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." - Ed Howdershelt
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post #36 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-15-2006, 09:55 AM
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Who failed to show your opinion respect? This has been about the most civil discussion on politics/terrorism I have seen on this board in awhile.
I don't really feel like anyone disrespected me. I was just trying to let you know that I respect how you feel. Of course, I would appreciate the same. I didn't say it because I felt desrespected. I was just trying to have a civil discussion. Is there anything wrong with that?
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post #37 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-15-2006, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by AL P
Wow, paranoid much? If I want to aim a comment toward you, there won't be any question about it. It will be obvious.
Dude, Don't be so sensitive. I'm trying to be nice to you and you're being a smartass. How the hell was I being paranoid?
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post #38 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-15-2006, 10:15 AM
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I just think that you'd have to be a bit paranoid to think my generalized statement was directed at you. Like I said, if I wanted to respond to you, you'd know it, I got the quote thing down pat.
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post #39 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-15-2006, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AL P
I just think that you'd have to be a bit paranoid to think my generalized statement was directed at you. Like I said, if I wanted to respond to you, you'd know it, I got the quote thing down pat.
LOL. Okay apology accepted. J/K I'm cool with it.
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post #40 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-15-2006, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by line-em-up
I don't really feel like anyone disrespected me. I was just trying to let you know that I respect how you feel. Of course, I would appreciate the same. I didn't say it because I felt desrespected. I was just trying to have a civil discussion. Is there anything wrong with that?
I was just curious if you thought you had been disrespected. That's all.

One
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Mistake
America

If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
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post #41 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-15-2006, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by 90 Notch
I was just curious if you thought you had been disrespected. That's all.
I've been on here a while. My skin has gotten tougher. You guys can be brutal at times.
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post #42 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-15-2006, 04:19 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by line-em-up
I've been on here a while. My skin has gotten tougher. You guys can be brutal at times.
We'd be nicer if you weren't such a fucking Marxist.
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post #43 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-15-2006, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by 46Tbird
We'd be nicer if you weren't such a fucking Marxist.
Hey, i resent that comment cuz my name's not Mark.
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