The Lebanon & Israel "crisis" - DFWstangs Forums
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post #1 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-23-2006, 06:39 PM Thread Starter
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The Lebanon & Israel "crisis"

I'm curious about what everyone thinks about US intervention.

The UN has called for a cease-fire, Saudi Arabia has asked for US intervention.

My opinion is, that short of China or Russia invading, we should stay the hell out of this one!!

What we do? Help Israel? they don't need our help........Help Hezbolah?.....I DON'T think so!!!!!!!

If Lebanon is really in danger, why don't they mobilize thier own military?

If the Saudi's want intervention, why don't they go in? Saudi Arabia has a decent military of thier own(all US weapons)

Why doesn't the UN send in coalition forces?

If we go into Lebanon, Iran would likely attack, then Kim Jong Il would think we're over extended, and would attack South Korea.

Scott

Last edited by White trash wagon; 07-23-2006 at 06:54 PM.
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post #2 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-23-2006, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White trash wagon
I'm curious about what everyone things about US intervention.

The UN has called for a cease-fire, Saudi Arabia has asked for US intervention.

My opinion is, that short of China or Russia invading, we should stay the hell out of this one!!

What we do? Help Israel? they don't need our help........Help Hezbolah?.....I DON'T think so!!!!!!!

If Lebanon is really in danger, why don't they mobilize thier own military?

If the Saudi's want intervention, why don't they go in? Saudi Arabia has a decent military of thier own(all US weapons)

Why doesn't the UN send in coalition forces?

If we go into Lebanon, Iran would likely attack, then Kim Jong Il would thing we're over extended, and would attack South Korea.

Scott

The Saudis would get f'ed up.
UN blue helmets don't want any either.

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post #3 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-23-2006, 06:44 PM
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The ONLY reason the Saudi's want us in, is they know the Jews will DECIMATE Lebanon. They want us to save the destruction of that country, and they know we are the only country with a weakness for destruction, at least in the press. We need to let Israel handle this...they are doing just fine.

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post #4 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-23-2006, 06:48 PM
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Syria will join conflict if Israeli troops approach
23 Jul 2006 1050 GMT
Source: Reuters

Lebanon crisis
Israeli-Palestinian conflict
More MADRID, July 23 (Reuters) - Syria will enter the Israeli-Hizbollah conflict if Israeli ground troops enter Lebanon and approach Syria, Syrian Information Minister Mohsen Bilal said in an interview published on Sunday.

"If Israel invades Lebanon over ground and comes near to us, Syria will not sit tight. She will join the conflict," he told newspaper ABC.

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post #5 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-23-2006, 06:49 PM
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I agree with Vertnut. Israel picked this battle and we ought to let them focus on the fight they picked while we continue to focus on Iraq. The only circumstances that could happen where I would say "go for it, President Bush", is if Iran got more involved or if another power like Russia or China got involved, which is unlikely. I say that because in light of the recent events in N Korea, China and Russia are both pissed at them and, for once, our taking our side, sort of. Israel will clean house.

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post #6 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-23-2006, 07:18 PM Thread Starter
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WE're all on the same page so far..........

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post #7 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-23-2006, 07:25 PM
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There are two major sects of islam in the middle east, sunni and shia. There is also sufi and whahabi. Saudis are mostly sunni. Hezbollah is shia. They kill each other. So, no problem.
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post #8 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-23-2006, 07:27 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TexasDevilDog
There are two major sects of islam in the middle east, sunni and shia. There is also sufi and whahabi. Saudis are mostly sunni. Hezbollah is shia. They kill each other. So, no problem.
It is interesting that under Sadam, the Shiites & Sunni's stayed quiet. They knew he would kill them all if they acted up.

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post #9 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-23-2006, 08:40 PM
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It is interesting that under Sadam, the Shiites & Sunni's stayed quiet. They knew he would kill them all if they acted up.

Scott
Yep, their religious enemy wasn't as bad as their political enemy.
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post #10 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-23-2006, 08:59 PM
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post #11 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-23-2006, 09:03 PM
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WE're all on the same page so far..........

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That's kind of a miracle in and of itself...
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post #12 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 06:53 AM
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If the Lebanese army joined the fighting it'd be on Hezbollah's side.

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post #13 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 07:38 AM
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I also think we should stay out unless there is some extraordinary circumstance.

Israel certainly knows how far they can go before dragging other countries into the fray (such as syria) and i'm sure they'll be careful not to cross that line. Meanwhile, they can wear down and exhaust hezbolla while the "world community" is working toward getting syria to disengage from hezbolla, and works toward putting in a peacekeeping force that might actually do so...... for awhile.
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post #14 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 08:31 AM
 
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We are already in the fight. Who is sending arms to Israel...not Russia! I seem to remeber a certain World War where we stayed "out" while we really were sending ordinance to help the Allied parties. Then Japan hit us and woke "sleeping giant."

Anyway, We will stay in it as far as providing Israel the weapons necessary. If Iran come into the picture or if Syria acts stupid we will jump on that shit like an Ape on a Banana.

Anyway, if you recall the Six Day Spanking the muslim nations took when they went after Israel you know they don't want that to happen again. They will sit back and watch and probably pray to Allah that Syria, Iran and Lebanon get cleaned out. They are causing all the hard feelings in the first place.
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post #15 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 08:43 AM
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We are already in the fight. Who is sending arms to Israel...not Russia! I seem to remeber a certain World War where we stayed "out" while we really were sending ordinance to help the Allied parties. Then Japan hit us and woke "sleeping giant."
They don't need any of our weapons to fight Hezbollah. Sure they may have a few F-16s flying around but the tanks, rifles, grenades and RPGs they use are all home made.

If we were to help anyone it'd be the Lebanese army in an attempt to keep them in control of their nation and kick Hezbollah to the curb. Right now though the best course is to sit back and watch while the terrorists use up all of their missiles and RPGs fighting the Israelis. Every one of those could have just as easily been made into an IED by Iraqi insurgents.

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post #16 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 08:44 AM
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one of my coworkers was in that mess...he just got back this weekend, and he has some pretty interesting stories.

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post #17 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 08:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by BP
They don't need any of our weapons to fight Hezbollah. Sure they may have a few F-16s flying around but the tanks, rifles, grenades and RPGs they use are all home made.

If we were to help anyone it'd be the Lebanese army in an attempt to keep them in control of their nation and kick Hezbollah to the curb. Right now though the best course is to sit back and watch while the terrorists use up all of their missiles and RPGs fighting the Israelis. Every one of those could have just as easily been made into an IED by Iraqi insurgents.
I cannot find the story now but there was a release mid last week how Israel's order of smart weapons was being expedited ahead of schedule to help in this effort. So it is not only F-16s we are providing them but the weaponry as well.
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post #18 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 06:07 PM
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Why is this considered a crisis?

I think Israel is doing a fine job. No crisis there.

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post #19 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrbishop
I cannot find the story now but there was a release mid last week how Israel's order of smart weapons was being expedited ahead of schedule to help in this effort. So it is not only F-16s we are providing them but the weaponry as well.
I know for a fact that we are sending equipment. My friend Paloma is married to an Army guy currently stationed in Germany...they just delivered some tanks to Israel.

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post #20 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-24-2006, 08:41 PM
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I cannot find the story now but there was a release mid last week how Israel's order of smart weapons was being expedited ahead of schedule to help in this effort. So it is not only F-16s we are providing them but the weaponry as well.
Yes, Israel is uping an order of "smart" munitions for their presicion strikes. They dont use weapon that are random, like firing missiles in the air hoping to hit something.

Israel has massed troops on the border and are in Israel. So, why is Hezbollah still shooting rockets and missiles at cities with civilians when military targets are closer?

Hezbollah wants to target civilians. Shocker!
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post #21 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-25-2006, 05:51 AM
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I look at it this way... Israel is diffusing a problem that we would eventually have to take care of. Why not supply them?
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post #22 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-25-2006, 10:44 AM
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I think we should leave it alone. I like Isreal's aproach. The UN and others are complaining about Isreal over doing it and Isreal says, "so what". All is fair in love and war and Isreal needs to come down with a hard fist and wipe the desert floor up with them. Otherwise, it will be just like we are in Iraq with no real results and in a few years they'll have to start the clean up again.
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post #23 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-25-2006, 11:12 AM
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I think if we handled problem like Israel, we would be in a lot better shape in alot of stuff. I mean look how eygpt is sitting there cause they got their ass handed to them once. Israel is bad mofo when come to have to take care of them selves, that wont start but they will damn will finsh it. Let them go take care of this Lebanon struck first so to me they are the ones that open this can of worms let them figure out how to close it
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post #24 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-26-2006, 07:28 AM
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,205525,00.html

"The book was found open to a page describing, in Latin script, Psalm 83, in which God hears complaints of other nations' attempts to wipe out the name of Israel."

Kind of ironic. Haven't found anything on snopes yet.


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post #25 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-26-2006, 09:00 AM
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Israel is not going to attack Syria unless Syria attacks them first. Unlikely IMO since Syria knows they'd get their asses kicked. They'll sit there and do nothing like the arab chickenshits that they are while Hezbollah takes the beating for them.

We aren't going to get involved and I'd be real suprised if anyone else did either. Everyone knows Israel is right and the fruitcakes are wrong on this one. They started this shit and now they are going to have to take their licks. I been saying for a while that when the Jews get ready to kick some ass, look out!

No one over there has anything for the jews. They talk and talk and talk about how they are going to destroy Israel but when it comes to a straight up fight they got nothing. Of course when it comes to blowing up women and children with chickenshittery, well they got that mastered.
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post #26 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-26-2006, 09:28 AM
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,205525,00.html

"The book was found open to a page describing, in Latin script, Psalm 83, in which God hears complaints of other nations' attempts to wipe out the name of Israel."

Kind of ironic. Haven't found anything on snopes yet.
There's going to be a seven year peace tready signed first.
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post #27 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-26-2006, 09:40 AM
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There's going to be a seven year peace tready signed first.
Temple will get rebuilt also.
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post #28 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-26-2006, 09:42 AM
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Temple will get rebuilt also.
Does it specify it'll be built before or after the peace tready or war?
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post #29 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-26-2006, 10:00 AM
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So, what number temple will that be? LOL!
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post #30 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-26-2006, 11:10 AM
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Does it specify it'll be built before or after the peace tready or war?
The antichrist stands in the rebuilt temple and claims to be God. Thus, there has to be a temple to stand in. The Isralies already have everything they need to rebuilt it; they just need a spot for it. From what i've read it will be after the treaty; the treaty will allow it to be rebuilt.

It will be the 3rd temple.
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post #31 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-26-2006, 01:51 PM
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For some reason I am excited about this. Hey 90StangLX5.0, you ready to go crew some planes in Israel. I know they have F-16's and i'm a 5 level on them too.
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post #32 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-26-2006, 01:52 PM
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The antichrist stands in the rebuilt temple and claims to be God. Thus, there has to be a temple to stand in. The Isralies already have everything they need to rebuilt it; they just need a spot for it. From what i've read it will be after the treaty; the treaty will allow it to be rebuilt.

It will be the 3rd temple.
That makes sense.
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post #33 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-26-2006, 01:53 PM
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So, what number temple will that be? LOL!
Do you really even fucking care?!?!
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post #34 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-26-2006, 02:48 PM
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Do you really even fucking care?!?!
Sure. I'm already prepped for the mark. Haven't decided hand or forehead yet. I hear you get a free Mustang if you are one of the first to sign up.
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post #35 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-26-2006, 02:51 PM
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Sure. I'm already prepped for the mark. Haven't decided hand or forehead yet. I hear you get a free Mustang if you are one of the first to sign up.
BAHAHAHA! That's enough to keep me away!

Seriously though... if you see things starting to unfold as is written, you gonna think twice at least?
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post #36 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-26-2006, 03:18 PM
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Well, it depends on what you mean;

Not counting Moses' tabernacle, which was replaced by Solomon's temple (the first temple), later destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar.

That was replaced with the help of Darius II by Ezra, and it is the second temple. We don't know what happened to it, but we know it was replaced by a 3rd temple, built by Herod.

This was destroyed in 70 CE, and although much of the hype of the Bar Kochba revolution was to rebuild a fourth temple, it didn't happen.

Now there is supposed to be yet another temple built according to John, and it will be where the false prophet is welcomed. We even know what it looks like thanks to John.

Yet it will be replaced by a fifth temple as described in Ezekial's prophecy, which is different from the rest (he measured it in his dream, remember?).

But this has to happen before the Parousia, because John tells us that the city of New Jerusalem has no standing temple.

So either Jesus' watch has a dead battery, or Jesus already came (See OkieHog's post in Theology), or the bible is wrong.

I'm not too worried. But if I get the chance to sell my soul, I'll be asking top dollar
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post #37 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-26-2006, 03:31 PM
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Nah bro...

Moses' Tabernacle was not the Temple. It was where the Israelites worshiped when they were in transit to the Promised Land. Solomon's Temple was the first Temple in Israel and the 2nd (rebuilt thanks to David) was destroyed in 70, like you said. The "temple" that was built after that was at the order of Herrod, not God. So we're only at two right now, counting that way.
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post #38 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-26-2006, 03:37 PM
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Nah bro...

Moses' Tabernacle was not the Temple. It was where the Israelites worshiped when they were in transit to the Promised Land. Solomon's Temple was the first Temple in Israel and the 2nd (rebuilt thanks to David) was destroyed in 70, like you said. The "temple" that was built after that was at the order of Herrod, not God. So we're only at two right now, counting that way.
I didn't mean to imply the tabernacle was the first; I didn't edit that well enough; I meant the first temple replaced the tabernacle.

You can make the case that Ezra's Temple was never destroyed, but simply renovated and expanded by Herod, but that still leaves two in the pipeline. Considering the pace of temple construction over the last two thousand or so years, I think we are pretty safe. Check your Scofield Reference Bible and see what it says about the number of temples.

I think it is folly to base diplomacy and statesmanship on some vague prophecy that has little real-world relevance; has the city of Tyre fallen over and been swallowed by the sea yet? Nope, still there.
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post #39 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-26-2006, 03:53 PM
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has the city of Tyre fallen over and been swallowed by the sea yet? Nope, still there.
Some say otherwise:

http://www.allabouttruth.org/biblical-prophecy.htm
http://www.exchangedlife.com/skeptic/ezekiel.htm

Perhaps we need to move this to the theology forum before someone complains.
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post #40 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-26-2006, 04:23 PM
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Bible discussions always come out with a clear cut winner. I love em.
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post #41 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-26-2006, 04:55 PM
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Some say otherwise:

http://www.allabouttruth.org/biblical-prophecy.htm
http://www.exchangedlife.com/skeptic/ezekiel.htm

Perhaps we need to move this to the theology forum before someone complains.
There is an excellent debunking of this on infidels.org. I won't go completely into it here. Not all the same buildings, but that never stopped anyone from claiming Nazereth has existed for the last 2000 years as well. Nebuchadnezzar couldn't take it. The damaged part of the fortress fell in an earthquake, not from a war. Alexander didn't destroy it, he conquered it. He used much of the fortress to build a better port, just like he used various ancient Egyptian structures to build his library in Alexandria. It was a common practice to reuse building materials. The levant can't easily be traveresed north to south on land, and it is strategic, so the only way it would be abandoned is if it disappeared into the sea, which it's still there.

But that isn't my point; my point is backing a war to achieve a religious goal is a religious crusade, and we shouldn't be part of a religious crusade. That doesn't mean we can't sit back watch. Staying out of it thus far has actually got most of the Arab states criticizing Syria and Hezbollah, leaving a rift between them and Iran. Stay out of it longer and we might see a coup in Iran. Jump in and we accomplish nothing that isn't being accomplished now.
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post #42 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-26-2006, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
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I think if we handled problem like Israel, we would be in a lot better shape in alot of stuff. I mean look how eygpt is sitting there cause they got their ass handed to them once. Israel is bad mofo when come to have to take care of them selves, that wont start but they will damn will finsh it. Let them go take care of this Lebanon struck first so to me they are the ones that open this can of worms let them figure out how to close it
Egypt is an allie of the United States. It's not a matter of being beat down, sure they lost though. They realize that all the Arab nations will never have a true alliance and look out more for their interests than whats good for the rest of the Arabs. They probably lost more troops in liberating Kuwait than we did and had their feet in Kuwaiti soil right about the same time American armor rolled in.

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post #43 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-26-2006, 05:09 PM
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They realize that all the Arab nations will never have a true alliance and look out more for their interests than whats good for the rest of the Arabs.
They are all slowly going to realize this or get their asses kicked along the way.
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post #44 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-26-2006, 05:21 PM
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That doesn't mean we can't sit back watch. Staying out of it thus far has actually got most of the Arab states criticizing Syria and Hezbollah, leaving a rift between them and Iran. Stay out of it longer and we might see a coup in Iran. Jump in and we accomplish nothing that isn't being accomplished now.
I agree with ya there. Let them fight amongst themselves this time around.

Was listening to a talk show the other day and they were talking about how the young people in iran are not happy with the current state of iran's government and the governmental repression, etc. A coup is not out of the question, especially if their idiot leader takes them to the brink.
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post #45 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-27-2006, 05:30 AM
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There could be 5460984572340987 temples built, but only two were under the direction of God. That's all I'm saying.
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post #46 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-29-2006, 03:24 AM
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this shit smacks of revelations, freaky.

Give me a dollar.
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post #47 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-29-2006, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by 5.0LiterRiceEater
For some reason I am excited about this. Hey 90StangLX5.0, you ready to go crew some planes in Israel. I know they have F-16's and i'm a 5 level on them too.
We've already been flying people from Beirut to Cyprus...

I'm also going to agree with Casper, once again. I put some thought in to what he said, and the most logical thing the US could do with the Israel/Hezbollah/Syria/Iran deal is to sit back and watch. Let Israel destroy as much as their factions as possible.


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post #48 of 54 (permalink) Old 07-29-2006, 11:15 AM
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I totally agree as well. Just leave all of this mess to them and let them try to settle it on their own. We could sure use the lack of international spotlight on us. Let these other countries fight amongst each other and have Israel there to clean up and maybe the rest of the world won't blame us for this too . It's funny how everyone talks shit about us, but when the shit hits the fan, they're knocking on the door to borrow some sugar. They say we're too far into everyone's affairs, then ask us to come get into people's affairs.
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post #49 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-03-2006, 01:00 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: At the Dexter Lake Club
Posts: 12,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by BP
If we were to help anyone it'd be the Lebanese army in an attempt to keep them in control of their nation and kick Hezbollah to the curb.
Man I should work for the state department!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060803/...NlYwMlJVRPUCUl

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post #50 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-03-2006, 02:12 PM
IA2
 
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 22,413
Quote:
Originally Posted by BP
Man I should work for the state department!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060803/...NlYwMlJVRPUCUl
I can see a lot of good coming from that if it works. Lebanon controls hezbolla better, israel quits getting shelled, the arab nations see that the US is helping one of their nations, and the international community should also be on board with it.
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