WMD question for those who think Bush lied... - DFWstangs Forums
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post #1 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-21-2006, 08:49 PM Thread Starter
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WMD question for those who think Bush lied...

If WMD is found in Iraq, how much must there be for you to admit Bush was right?

1 container of sarin gas? 50 containers?

How about 10 containers of sarin and 10 of mustard gas?

I just want to know what would be the amount for you who think he LIED to admit that he was right, assuming they are eventually found.

BTW, after a few Bush haters post their answers I will explain why I brought this subject up.

(if you know why I brought it up tonight, stay quiet)

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post #2 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-21-2006, 08:54 PM
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All Bush's fault.

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post #3 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-21-2006, 09:36 PM
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post #4 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-21-2006, 09:45 PM
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post #5 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-21-2006, 09:47 PM
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Personally i only need to hear they found 1 container and thats enough to give the thumbs up. If theyre in posession of it, they obviously have ill intent with it.

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post #6 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-21-2006, 10:02 PM
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To answer 90 notch - the answer is that there will never be enough WMD found to clear bush of "lying", short of active nuclear weapons.
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post #7 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-21-2006, 11:07 PM
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"they" claim

15 year old wmd's don't count.
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post #8 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-21-2006, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jyro
15 year old wmd's don't count.
It's past the "use by" date like it's milk.

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post #9 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-21-2006, 11:54 PM
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For those who are clueless as to what Mustard and Sarin gas can do:

Mustard Gas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustard_Gas

Sarin Gas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin

I'm surprised they haven't found any VX. Maybe that got shipped over to Syria with the rest of it.
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post #10 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-22-2006, 12:37 AM
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Sarin has been found over there. There were a couple of rockets or mortars with it in them - I can't remember if those troops died or were treated in time.

The devices did not get used, they were found if I remember right. Due to being handled the soldiers got sick and were either treated or died....I just can't remember those details right now.

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post #11 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-22-2006, 08:11 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceyko
Sarin has been found over there. There were a couple of rockets or mortars with it in them - I can't remember if those troops died or were treated in time.

The devices did not get used, they were found if I remember right. Due to being handled the soldiers got sick and were either treated or died....I just can't remember those details right now.
I saw that about 500 devices were found with some type of chemical warhead.

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post #12 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-22-2006, 08:20 AM
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post #13 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-22-2006, 08:35 AM
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post #14 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-22-2006, 09:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mikeb
To answer 90 notch - the answer is that there will never be enough WMD found to clear bush of "lying", short of active nuclear weapons.


That's about right. They could have caught someone over there with Nukes and their finger on the button and it would be said that Bush smuggled in the nukes and killed the Iraqi and positioned the body to make it look like he was going to set it off.
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post #15 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-22-2006, 09:22 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeb
To answer 90 notch - the answer is that there will never be enough WMD found to clear bush of "lying", short of active nuclear weapons.
I know it was not going to happen, but I was hoping one of the high profile Bush haters would chime in.

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post #16 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-22-2006, 09:33 AM
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Many chemical agents were found, but no delivery devices that would classify them as WMD. Or, at least not very many.

What's the story on 500 "devices?"
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post #17 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-22-2006, 09:39 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 46Tbird
Many chemical agents were found, but no delivery devices that would classify them as WMD. Or, at least not very many.

What's the story on 500 "devices?"
It was a small "headline" trailer on MSNBC last night. They were in the middle of another story, so I don't have details other than that. I assumed it was some bombs circa 1991 or earlier, but I don't know for sure.

BTW, is it your position that stockpiles or a large quantity of sarin gas or mustard gas without a delivery device is not WMD? I have never seen a definition that required a delivery device. I think the sarin gas in used in the subway a few years ago was delivered by hand.

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post #18 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-22-2006, 09:45 AM
 
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WASHINGTON — The United States has found 500 chemical weapons in Iraq since 2003, and more weapons of mass destruction are likely to be uncovered, two Republican lawmakers said Wednesday.

"We have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, chemical weapons," Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa., said in a quickly called press conference late Wednesday afternoon.

Reading from a declassified portion of a report by the National Ground Intelligence Center, a Defense Department intelligence unit, Santorum said: "Since 2003, coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent. Despite many efforts to locate and destroy Iraq's pre-Gulf War chemical munitions, filled and unfilled pre-Gulf War chemical munitions are assessed to still exist."
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post #19 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-22-2006, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90 Notch
BTW, is it your position that stockpiles or a large quantity of sarin gas or mustard gas without a delivery device is not WMD? I have never seen a definition that required a delivery device.
Not my position, the position of the people that say we never found WMD, and that Bush was a LYER.

And yes you have to have a delivery method, otherwise it is just chemicals in a barrel. Durr.
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post #20 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-22-2006, 09:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90 Notch
I know it was not going to happen, but I was hoping one of the high profile Bush haters would chime in.

I have it... There were no wmd's in Iraq cause Bush sr. stole them in 91 and brought them back here so after W. Bush stole the elections he could use them in the towers and the pentagon when he planted the bombs.

I should write a book or make a movie about it!
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post #21 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-22-2006, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by 46Tbird
Not my position, the position of the people that say we never found WMD, and that Bush was a LYER.

And yes you have to have a delivery method, otherwise it is just chemicals in a barrel. Durr.
A simple mason jar can be a delivery method.
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post #22 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-22-2006, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jyro
15 year old wmd's don't count.
eVEN 15YO wmds which are actively traded on the black market? That is also in the report.
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post #23 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-22-2006, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 46Tbird
Many chemical agents were found, but no delivery devices that would classify them as WMD. Or, at least not very many.

What's the story on 500 "devices?"
Around 500 artillery shells were found back when I worked over there at Rapp. It was kind of pushed under the rug at the time out of convenience.
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post #24 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-22-2006, 12:59 PM
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WMDs in Iraq?!?! I highly doubt that!
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post #25 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-22-2006, 01:04 PM
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post #26 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-22-2006, 01:32 PM
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Damn you were a skinny bitch.
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post #27 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-22-2006, 01:40 PM
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There's nothing to eat over there but camel shit...I'd lose weight too!

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post #28 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-22-2006, 05:01 PM
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90 Notch, assume I'm one of the entended "targets" since you usually label me a Bush "hater".

I don't hate Bush, But I do believe he has made a lot of poor decisions. But in reality these decisions were were not really even his, they were decisions of the 2 men who REALLY run the country, Dick Cheney and Karl Rove.

Now WMD's, I actually wish we did find them, as it would get us "off the hook" in world opinion about why we went into Iraq.

But to me, if any decent size cache of deliverable, viable WMD's were found in Iraq, especially if they date to AFTER 1992, I would accept that as proof of Iraq's possession of WMD's.

Now I know you'll ask for a definition of "sizable cache" in terms of WMD's, but that would vary according the type of weapon. A 500lbs "dumb bomb" would not ordinarily be defined as a WMD, but id you dropped it on a 40 story office building at 2:00PM, you might kill 2000 people or more. I guess it would be along the lines of a device that can kill thousands of people by means other than intrusion (bullets, schrapnel), fire,crushing or concussions(blasts), and is easily deliverable.

But if Bush had positive proof of WMD's, it would be on every news broadcast for a solid week. I'm still waiting for the broadcast...........

Scott
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post #29 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-22-2006, 06:07 PM
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They found plenty of WMD material over there. But you'll never hear about it because it won't sell papers.
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post #30 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-22-2006, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White trash wagon
90 Notch, assume I'm one of the entended "targets" since you usually label me a Bush "hater".

I don't hate Bush, But I do believe he has made a lot of poor decisions. But in reality these decisions were were not really even his, they were decisions of the 2 men who REALLY run the country, Dick Cheney and Karl Rove.

Now WMD's, I actually wish we did find them, as it would get us "off the hook" in world opinion about why we went into Iraq.

But to me, if any decent size cache of deliverable, viable WMD's were found in Iraq, especially if they date to AFTER 1992, I would accept that as proof of Iraq's possession of WMD's.

Now I know you'll ask for a definition of "sizable cache" in terms of WMD's, but that would vary according the type of weapon. A 500lbs "dumb bomb" would not ordinarily be defined as a WMD, but id you dropped it on a 40 story office building at 2:00PM, you might kill 2000 people or more. I guess it would be along the lines of a device that can kill thousands of people by means other than intrusion (bullets, schrapnel), fire,crushing or concussions(blasts), and is easily deliverable.

But if Bush had positive proof of WMD's, it would be on every news broadcast for a solid week. I'm still waiting for the broadcast...........

Scott
To satisfy the press at this point, it would take a tanker truck full of sarin gas, to make the papers. Think of those chemicals as you would parts of a snipers' rifle broken down into harmless peices...a barrel, a firing pin, a bolt, a magazine, a scope, etc. spread around many miles. Individually, they mean nothing, but together, you have a problem. Finding small amounts just means they "distributed" it over a large space. Old, new, whatever. They were not supposed to have ANY of it.

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post #31 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-22-2006, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White trash wagon
I don't hate Bush, But I do believe he has made a lot of poor decisions. But in reality these decisions were were not really even his, they were decisions of the 2 men who REALLY run the country, Dick Cheney and Karl Rove.

Scott
Hey...you can't say that on here!

I won't say I hate Dubya, but I don't think any more of him than I would anyone else that was out to destroy my country. (and somehow that will label me "unpatriotic" )
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post #32 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-22-2006, 08:25 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White trash wagon
90 Notch, assume I'm one of the entended "targets" since you usually label me a Bush "hater".

I don't hate Bush, But I do believe he has made a lot of poor decisions. But in reality these decisions were were not really even his, they were decisions of the 2 men who REALLY run the country, Dick Cheney and Karl Rove.

Now WMD's, I actually wish we did find them, as it would get us "off the hook" in world opinion about why we went into Iraq.

But to me, if any decent size cache of deliverable, viable WMD's were found in Iraq, especially if they date to AFTER 1992, I would accept that as proof of Iraq's possession of WMD's.

Now I know you'll ask for a definition of "sizable cache" in terms of WMD's, but that would vary according the type of weapon. A 500lbs "dumb bomb" would not ordinarily be defined as a WMD, but id you dropped it on a 40 story office building at 2:00PM, you might kill 2000 people or more. I guess it would be along the lines of a device that can kill thousands of people by means other than intrusion (bullets, schrapnel), fire,crushing or concussions(blasts), and is easily deliverable.

But if Bush had positive proof of WMD's, it would be on every news broadcast for a solid week. I'm still waiting for the broadcast...........

Scott
I figured that there would be a twist after WMD was found. When they are found it changes to "decent size cache of deliverable, viable WMD's." The proper answer wopuld have been I am glad as an American we found them, now we can concentrate on getting the Iraqi's equipped and trained to defend themsleves and get our troops home asap. But that didn't get said by the Bush haters, did it?


Actually, they were found some time ago but just announced now that the report has been declassified. Imagine that, you and the other Bush haters think that Bush would immediately release that kind of info for political gain. You are too blinded by your hatred of him to imagine that he knew they had been found but did not release it. You also know in your heart of hearts that any liberal Dem would have released the info immediately upon finding them, so Bush doing it ethically and morally, with no attempt at political gain, the way he did just baffles your way of thinking, doesn't it?

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Last edited by 90 Notch; 06-23-2006 at 10:07 AM.
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post #33 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-22-2006, 08:26 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by black01gt
Hey...you can't say that on here!

I won't say I hate Dubya, but I don't think any more of him than I would anyone else that was out to destroy my country. (and somehow that will label me "unpatriotic" )

Once again, you don't offer anything of substance. I am shocked!

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post #34 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-22-2006, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90 Notch
Actually, they were found some time ago but just announced now that the report has been declassified. Imagine that, you and the other Bush haters think that Bush would immediately release that kind of info for political gain. You are too blinded by your hatred of him to imagine that he knew they had been found but did not release it. You also know in your heart of hearts that any liberal Dem would have released the info immediately upon finding them, so Bush doing it ethically and morally, with no attempt at political gain, the way he did just baffles your way of thinking, doesn't it?
Uh...I'm gonna puke now.
I think you're banking on way too much political milage for President Numbnuts with this wmd thing. People ain't buyin his (& Cheney's) bullshit no mo.
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post #35 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-23-2006, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White trash wagon
90 Notch, assume I'm one of the entended "targets" since you usually label me a Bush "hater".

I don't hate Bush, But I do believe he has made a lot of poor decisions. But in reality these decisions were were not really even his, they were decisions of the 2 men who REALLY run the country, Dick Cheney and Karl Rove.

Now WMD's, I actually wish we did find them, as it would get us "off the hook" in world opinion about why we went into Iraq.

But to me, if any decent size cache of deliverable, viable WMD's were found in Iraq, especially if they date to AFTER 1992, I would accept that as proof of Iraq's possession of WMD's.

Now I know you'll ask for a definition of "sizable cache" in terms of WMD's, but that would vary according the type of weapon. A 500lbs "dumb bomb" would not ordinarily be defined as a WMD, but id you dropped it on a 40 story office building at 2:00PM, you might kill 2000 people or more. I guess it would be along the lines of a device that can kill thousands of people by means other than intrusion (bullets, schrapnel), fire,crushing or concussions(blasts), and is easily deliverable.

But if Bush had positive proof of WMD's, it would be on every news broadcast for a solid week. I'm still waiting for the broadcast...........

Scott
Buddy, I've got tons of pics with MY HANDS on the "decent size" caches you hoped we found. It WAS there and it WAS taken care of. Why it never went public is beyond me, but I can assure you that the chems that they had stored up out there was some nasty shit. Seriously, just what I took care of was enough to make DFW a ghost town. That was just at one location at a secluded airbase out there. I've seen pictures and talked with other HAZMAT specialists that were out there about caches of larger scales. Just think of the shit they had BEFORE they ran it to Syria when the UN was trying to get in for inspections. So unless you have better proof than I do since I was actually there and not sitting on my couch watching CNN, this conversation is over.
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post #36 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-23-2006, 06:53 AM
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Ain't that some shit?!?!
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post #37 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-23-2006, 08:32 AM
 
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Buddy, I've got tons of pics with MY HANDS on the "decent size" caches you hoped we found. It WAS there and it WAS taken care of. Why it never went public is beyond me, but I can assure you that the chems that they had stored up out there was some nasty shit. Seriously, just what I took care of was enough to make DFW a ghost town. That was just at one location at a secluded airbase out there. I've seen pictures and talked with other HAZMAT specialists that were out there about caches of larger scales. Just think of the shit they had BEFORE they ran it to Syria when the UN was trying to get in for inspections. So unless you have better proof than I do since I was actually there and not sitting on my couch watching CNN, this conversation is over.


I wish you could take some of what you picked up and drop it off at everyones home who is discounting it saying it wasn't dangerous!
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post #38 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-23-2006, 08:52 AM
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I wish you could take some of what you picked up and drop it off at everyones home who is discounting it saying it wasn't dangerous!
I wouldn't wish that on anyone... LOL

Bad shit, bro! You don't die very quickly, if at all.
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post #39 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-23-2006, 09:36 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by black01gt
Uh...I'm gonna puke now.
I think you're banking on way too much political milage for President Numbnuts with this wmd thing. People ain't buyin his (& Cheney's) bullshit no mo.
I wouldn't expect someone like you to understand or agree.

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post #40 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-23-2006, 10:01 AM
 
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I wouldn't wish that on anyone... LOL

Bad shit, bro! You don't die very quickly, if at all.

I understand I just don't like people sitting on their asses back here claiming how it is not dangerous while soldiers are having to clean up and contain it.
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post #41 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-23-2006, 11:52 AM
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I understand I just don't like people sitting on their asses back here claiming how it is not dangerous while soldiers are having to clean up and contain it.
Just be glad it was me out there and not them. LOL!!!
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post #42 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-23-2006, 12:01 PM
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Just be glad it was me out there and not them. LOL!!!
I hope you didn't get a small amount in you, bro. Kick ass job you did over there.
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post #43 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-23-2006, 12:04 PM
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I hope you didn't get a small amount in you, bro. Kick ass job you did over there.
Shit... with the govt footin the bill, I bought only the good stuff. I had the best level A sustainment suits and SCBAs money can buy!!!
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Denny is offline  
post #44 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-23-2006, 12:06 PM
Racist....that means you!
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 20,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
Shit... with the govt footin the bill, I bought only the good stuff. I had the best level A sustainment suits and SCBAs money can buy!!!
That's good to see, man. Our fucking MOP gear was HOT as shit!!!!!!!!!
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post #45 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-23-2006, 12:11 PM
I voted for McCain!!
 
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Balls Deep
Posts: 3,823
Quote:
Originally Posted by 06LGGT
That's about right. They could have caught someone over there with Nukes and their finger on the button and it would be said that Bush smuggled in the nukes and killed the Iraqi and positioned the body to make it look like he was going to set it off.
I totally agree with you. Shame on Bush for following through with what he said he was going to do and having some integrity.

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post #46 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-23-2006, 12:36 PM
Out
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 41,952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
That's good to see, man. Our fucking MOP gear was HOT as shit!!!!!!!!!
I've been up to my ankles in sweat at times.
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post #47 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-23-2006, 12:36 PM
Racist....that means you!
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 20,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
I've been up to my ankles in sweat at times.
I believe it. We did a 5 mile hump if full mop at Pendleton. Fuck that shit.
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post #48 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-23-2006, 12:40 PM
Out
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 41,952
I lost 35 pounds out there, but gained most of it back Fuckin Dr Peppers!
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post #49 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-23-2006, 03:40 PM
ebay pimp
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Carrollton, TX
Posts: 4,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
Buddy, I've got tons of pics with MY HANDS on the "decent size" caches you hoped we found. It WAS there and it WAS taken care of. Why it never went public is beyond me, but I can assure you that the chems that they had stored up out there was some nasty shit. Seriously, just what I took care of was enough to make DFW a ghost town. That was just at one location at a secluded airbase out there. I've seen pictures and talked with other HAZMAT specialists that were out there about caches of larger scales. Just think of the shit they had BEFORE they ran it to Syria when the UN was trying to get in for inspections. So unless you have better proof than I do since I was actually there and not sitting on my couch watching CNN, this conversation is over.
Denny, I wasn't lucky enough to go with you to Iraq, but I'll take your word for it. But if you saw it, held it in your hand.....why does our government deny it? Why does the Army and the CIA tell the adminstration that none were found? If Bush knows about it why doesn't he call a press conference?

CIA’s final report: No WMD found in Iraq

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7634313/

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/...aq.wmd.report/

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/01/12/wmd.search/index.html

Last edited by White trash wagon; 06-23-2006 at 05:50 PM.
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post #50 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-23-2006, 03:48 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 479
i wonder if weapon inspectors did a search in america, how many wmd's they would find?
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