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post #1 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-31-2005, 04:58 PM Thread Starter
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10 Billion Dollars

That is what Exxon reports having made this last quarter, well thank you very fucking much for fucking the entire country there Exxon. They made 10 billion in profits in 3 months Jesus Christ how bad does a consumer have to get butt fucked before someone screams foul?
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post #2 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-31-2005, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Pro Trash
That is what Exxon reports having made this last quarter, well thank you very fucking much for fucking the entire country there Exxon. They made 10 billion in profits in 3 months Jesus Christ how bad does a consumer have to get butt fucked before someone screams foul?
Exxon had $100 billion in sales, making a 10% profit. Would it better that no company made more than a 10% profit? Where were you, when oil was $10/bbl? The oil companies were trying to survive and that is when Exxon and Mobile had to merge to stay competitive. I bet you didn't have a care in the world, buying gas for cheap, while the gas companies were loosing out.
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post #3 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-31-2005, 05:31 PM
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And they'll pay over $5 billion in income taxes on it. But of course they should pay more because that's the answer to everything.
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post #4 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-31-2005, 05:40 PM
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Yeah...it's just their patriotic duty. You can tell that by the shit eating grin out of the side of his mouth.

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post #5 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-31-2005, 05:46 PM
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Hell of a quarter... lets see...

First company to reach 100 billion in revenue for a quarter (bigger than the combined GDP of United Arab Emirates and Kuwait combined).
First company to reach 10 billion in (almost 9.92 billion) for a quarter.

I hear Bill Frist is calling for senate hearings on the price of energy and wants to call in all the oil execs. I guess he most of sold his XOM and went short.

Of course they could be building a refinery or two with the profits (Exxon + BP + Royal Dutch + Chevron + ConocoPhillips = 32.8 billion in profits for the latest quarter) but... they might just make the price of gasoline go down...

Refining margins are at an all time high.
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post #6 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-31-2005, 05:54 PM
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Refining margins are at an all time high.
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post #7 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-31-2005, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by AL P
And they'll pay over $5 billion in income taxes on it. But of course they should pay more because that's the answer to everything.
I think your a bit naive on corporate taxes Al P. Most US corporations have thier headquarters listed in Bermuda ( or some Caribbean island) so they won't have to pay US corporate income taxes. Exxon/Mobil has ALL of it's oil tankers registered in Liberia, because Liberia has NO taxes on commercial ships. Most large corporations, in reality pay, about 2-5% in US taxes, if any at all.

Hell, I exploit the hell out of US business tax codes, my Ebay business nets me $15K-20K/year, yet by the time I use all the deductions, mileage, cloths, tools, truck and 25% of my house, I get a $3000 REFUND!!!

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post #8 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-31-2005, 07:38 PM
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Read the financial statements.
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post #9 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-31-2005, 07:47 PM
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Read the financial statements.
Al P, it's easy to pencil whip tax numbers to look like your not making too much money, and paying a lot of taxes. Like I said, I net $15K-$20K a year in profit from my ebay sales, but on my tax forms, using all the legal deductions, credits & write offs, I show a LOSS to Uncle Sam, and so get a big refund. Now If I can figure that out(with a little help from a Jewish accountant), I'm sure Exxon mobil with it's thousands of lawyers & accountants can do much better.

The US tax code was written to benefit large companies. Why do you think Most Corporations vehemently try and put down any 10% flat tax bills? Because it would double or triple thier tax liabilities.

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post #10 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-31-2005, 07:55 PM
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post #11 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-31-2005, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by White trash wagon
Al P, it's easy to pencil whip tax numbers to look like your not making too much money, and paying a lot of taxes. Like I said, I net $15K-$20K a year in profit from my ebay sales, but on my tax forms, using all the legal deductions, credits & write offs, I show a LOSS to Uncle Sam, and so get a big refund. Now If I can figure that out(with a little help from a Jewish accountant), I'm sure Exxon mobil with it's thousands of lawyers & accountants can do much better.

The US tax code was written to benefit large companies. Why do you think Most Corporations vehemently try and put down any 10% flat tax bills? Because it would double or triple thier tax liabilities.

Scott
This is true but you don't go putting $60 billion in taxes on your income statement and then manage to cook up a net loss at the end of the year. There is plenty of leeway for some creative shit in regards to GAAP vs. IRS code but you can only do so much.

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post #12 of 43 (permalink) Old 10-31-2005, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by AL P
And they'll pay over $5 billion in income taxes on it. But of course they should pay more because that's the answer to everything.
They'd pay about 4 billion on it. They've averaged around 40% for the past two years.
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post #13 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-01-2005, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by White trash wagon
I think your a bit naive on corporate taxes Al P. Most US corporations have thier headquarters listed in Bermuda ( or some Caribbean island) so they won't have to pay US corporate income taxes. Exxon/Mobil has ALL of it's oil tankers registered in Liberia, because Liberia has NO taxes on commercial ships. Most large corporations, in reality pay, about 2-5% in US taxes, if any at all.

Hell, I exploit the hell out of US business tax codes, my Ebay business nets me $15K-20K/year, yet by the time I use all the deductions, mileage, cloths, tools, truck and 25% of my house, I get a $3000 REFUND!!!

Scott
Since you know most US corporations have their headquarters in Bermuda, start by listing some off that average Americans would come in contact with every day. I'm talking major things, like cars, retail, oil, computers, steel. Start with the Dow Components and move down. Let me know what you find.

As for the tax rate on corporations, thats completely bogus. Exxon in the third quarter of 2005 paid 5 billion in taxes on 12 billion income. What justification can you provide that a 40 percent tax rate on anybody is just? It might be wise to research corporate tax information for real corporations to determine future responses rather than how well you can lie to the IRS and get away with it.

Also, I think Exxon should be able to charge 10 bucks a gallon if they want to. If people don't want to pay that much for gas, then don't buy it. Government regulation is what is keeping gas so high, not greed by any fat cats.
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post #14 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-01-2005, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by utdbear
Also, I think Exxon should be able to charge 10 bucks a gallon if they want to. If people don't want to pay that much for gas, then don't buy it. Government regulation is what is keeping gas so high, not greed by any fat cats.
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post #15 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-01-2005, 09:53 AM
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post #16 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-01-2005, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by White trash wagon
I think your a bit naive on corporate taxes Al P. Most US corporations have thier headquarters listed in Bermuda ( or some Caribbean island) so they won't have to pay US corporate income taxes. Exxon/Mobil has ALL of it's oil tankers registered in Liberia, because Liberia has NO taxes on commercial ships. Most large corporations, in reality pay, about 2-5% in US taxes, if any at all.

Hell, I exploit the hell out of US business tax codes, my Ebay business nets me $15K-20K/year, yet by the time I use all the deductions, mileage, cloths, tools, truck and 25% of my house, I get a $3000 REFUND!!!

Scott
LMAO. We aren't talking some little side business on E-Bay here. But I'll tell you what, keep showing a loss and see how quick the IRS jumps down into your books. Trust me, don't think they think you are "small fish". Last year I went to tax court over a 1,000 disagreement (which I won).

Exxon in their second quarter of 2005 paid 40% income tax on their net income.

My company is a partnership so we basically pay what everyone's individual tax rate is since we suck out most of the profit each month (partnership). So, we'll pay top individual marginal tax rate on our profits.

I pay quite a bit, even with deductions, and should pay the equivalent of the median household income in federal tax this year. Which I gladly do. Wish it was less but if I'm paying more each year in taxes that means I'm making more.

Rattle of how many of the DJIA companies have a HQ in Bermuda. Saying "most" is a total fabrication.
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post #17 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-01-2005, 12:27 PM
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Ah hell, I pretty much agree with 01WC on this, the world may be coming to an end. LOL

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post #18 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-01-2005, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by utdbear
Since you know most US corporations have their headquarters in Bermuda, start by listing some off that average Americans would come in contact with every day. I'm talking major things, like cars, retail, oil, computers, steel. Start with the Dow Components and move down. Let me know what you find.

As for the tax rate on corporations, thats completely bogus. Exxon in the third quarter of 2005 paid 5 billion in taxes on 12 billion income. What justification can you provide that a 40 percent tax rate on anybody is just? It might be wise to research corporate tax information for real corporations to determine future responses rather than how well you can lie to the IRS and get away with it.

Also, I think Exxon should be able to charge 10 bucks a gallon if they want to. If people don't want to pay that much for gas, then don't buy it. Government regulation is what is keeping gas so high, not greed by any fat cats.
Found 3 in about 5 minutes

"Founded in 1905, heavy-equipment manufacturer Ingersoll-Rand Company Ltd. promotes its jackhammers as those that sculpted one of America’s icons, Mount Rushmore National Memorial. But three months after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, Ingersoll-Rand (IR) set up a tiny office in the tax haven of Bermuda and reincorporated there. Today, while holding tens of millions of dollars in government contracts, including the U.S. Capitol Visitor Center, IR uses its Bermuda incorporation to avoid paying about $40 million annually in U.S. taxes."

Ingersoll Rand (tools, industrial equipment) HQ in Bermuda and will NOT pay $40M in taxes

Tyco International (toys, alarms, others) HQ in Bermuda and will NOT pay $600M in taxes

Stanley tools HQ in Bermuda and will NOT pay $30M in taxes.

The US Government estimates that it looses $160 BILLION a year in taxes because of US corporations with offshore headquarters.

Scott
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post #19 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-01-2005, 04:48 PM
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Found 3 in about 5 minutes

"Founded in 1905, heavy-equipment manufacturer Ingersoll-Rand Company Ltd. promotes its jackhammers as those that sculpted one of America’s icons, Mount Rushmore National Memorial. But three months after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, Ingersoll-Rand (IR) set up a tiny office in the tax haven of Bermuda and reincorporated there. Today, while holding tens of millions of dollars in government contracts, including the U.S. Capitol Visitor Center, IR uses its Bermuda incorporation to avoid paying about $40 million annually in U.S. taxes."

Ingersoll Rand (tools, industrial equipment) HQ in Bermuda and will NOT pay $40M in taxes

Tyco International (toys, alarms, others) HQ in Bermuda and will NOT pay $600M in taxes

Stanley tools HQ in Bermuda and will NOT pay $30M in taxes.

The US Government estimates that it looses $160 BILLION a year in taxes because of US corporations with offshore headquarters.

Scott
This is very true. Lots of them have gone offshore. But you can't really blame the companies any more than we can blame you for taking advantage of the tax laws with the E-bay business. It's all about making money and no one has any sort of patriotic duty to pay more than anyone else. And the government shouldn't be trying to set prices either, that's bullshit. Hell that is why we can't refine enough gas right now....government controls and EPA bullshit!

Exxon's tax rate is 40% on their ptofits but on overall revenue its around 5%, I don't think that is too bad really. They are usually around $300 billion in revnue and then $25 billion in profits. You know that $25 is after some horseshit write downs and charge offs and blah blah blah....
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post #20 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-01-2005, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by AL P
This is very true. Lots of them have gone offshore. But you can't really blame the companies any more than we can blame you for taking advantage of the tax laws with the E-bay business. It's all about making money and no one has any sort of patriotic duty to pay more than anyone else. And the government shouldn't be trying to set prices either, that's bullshit. Hell that is why we can't refine enough gas right now....government controls and EPA bullshit!

Exxon's tax rate is 40% on their ptofits but on overall revenue its around 5%, I don't think that is too bad really. They are usually around $300 billion in revnue and then $25 billion in profits. You know that $25 is after some horseshit write downs and charge offs and blah blah blah....
Yep, just think if you only had to pay taxes out your paycheck on your PROFITS (what's left over after your pay all your bills) . But we pay taxes on our REVENUE. If we had a 10% flat tax (on revenue) Exxon's tax bill would double.

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post #21 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-01-2005, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by White trash wagon
Yep, just think if you only had to pay taxes out your paycheck on your PROFITS (what's left over after your pay all your bills) . But we pay taxes on our REVENUE. If we had a 10% flat tax (on revenue) Exxon's tax bill would double.

Scott
True, but on an absolute dollar basis don't you think $5 billion is enough? I do!

That is true in regards to expenses but if you were to use that benchmark most people would pay no taxes at all since the average person is an idiot that spends every dime they make.
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post #22 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-01-2005, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White trash wagon
Found 3 in about 5 minutes

"Founded in 1905, heavy-equipment manufacturer Ingersoll-Rand Company Ltd. promotes its jackhammers as those that sculpted one of America’s icons, Mount Rushmore National Memorial. But three months after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, Ingersoll-Rand (IR) set up a tiny office in the tax haven of Bermuda and reincorporated there. Today, while holding tens of millions of dollars in government contracts, including the U.S. Capitol Visitor Center, IR uses its Bermuda incorporation to avoid paying about $40 million annually in U.S. taxes."

Ingersoll Rand (tools, industrial equipment) HQ in Bermuda and will NOT pay $40M in taxes

Tyco International (toys, alarms, others) HQ in Bermuda and will NOT pay $600M in taxes

Stanley tools HQ in Bermuda and will NOT pay $30M in taxes.

The US Government estimates that it looses $160 BILLION a year in taxes because of US corporations with offshore headquarters.

Scott

You found 2, Stanley Works is based solidly in New Britian, CT. So much for the rags you read.

Now... back to your majority of American corporations...

Out of the S&P 500, the largest 500 corporations in America, there are 8 companies I know of that are based offshore: Ingersol, Noble, Cooper, XL Captial, ACE, Tyco, Schlumberger or 1.6% of the S&P 500. Since the S&P 500 is our target market, I know quite a few of them. Even if you say I only know of 1/2 the offshore registered companies, lets say, for grins, it's 3.2%.

The S&P 500 represents about three quarters of the capitalization in the US.

Hardly a majority offshore.
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post #23 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-01-2005, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by AL P
True, but on an absolute dollar basis don't you think $5 billion is enough? I do!

That is true in regards to expenses but if you were to use that benchmark most people would pay no taxes at all since the average person is an idiot that spends every dime they make.

Very true, but you have to admit current tax code sucks!! If we had a flat tax, the IRS could save billions, and audits would be rare. If you look at US GNP only about a 2-4% flat tax would be PLENTY.

Oh, and about my business showing a loss, thus getting me a refund? The IRS allows a business to show a loss for 3 years....so you just reincorporate under a new name, and start all over again. I have an LLC corporation so that costs about $1000 every 3 years.

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post #24 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-01-2005, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by White trash wagon
Very true, but you have to admit current tax code sucks!! If we had a flat tax, the IRS could save billions, and audits would be rare. If you look at US GNP only about a 2-4% flat tax would be PLENTY.

Oh, and about my business showing a loss, thus getting me a refund? The IRS allows a business to show a loss for 3 years....so you just reincorporate under a new name, and start all over again. I have an LLC corporation so that costs about $1000 every 3 years.

Scott
The tax code does suck....but a flat tax will never pass. Too many tax lawyers, CPAs and consultants would be out of work.
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post #25 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-01-2005, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by White trash wagon
Yep, just think if you only had to pay taxes out your paycheck on your PROFITS (what's left over after your pay all your bills) . But we pay taxes on our REVENUE. If we had a 10% flat tax (on revenue) Exxon's tax bill would double.

Scott
Actually for the six months ending 6/30/2005 XOM paid 10.8B on revenues (not net income) of 88.6B or 12.1%.

So, they paid more than their flat tax of 10%. They'd save about 4B. They are also carrying about 20B in deferred income tax liability.

Comparing personal taxation to corporate taxation is the proverbial apples to oranges argument unless the business is a partnership. Then you can get close.
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post #26 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-01-2005, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by White trash wagon
Very true, but you have to admit current tax code sucks!! If we had a flat tax, the IRS could save billions, and audits would be rare. If you look at US GNP only about a 2-4% flat tax would be PLENTY.

Oh, and about my business showing a loss, thus getting me a refund? The IRS allows a business to show a loss for 3 years....so you just reincorporate under a new name, and start all over again. I have an LLC corporation so that costs about $1000 every 3 years.

Scott
You change the names of the principals? Addresses?

IRS may have stupid people that answer the phones but their computers are pretty smart. Just a matter of time.
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post #27 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-01-2005, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by White trash wagon
Very true, but you have to admit current tax code sucks!! If we had a flat tax, the IRS could save billions, and audits would be rare. If you look at US GNP only about a 2-4% flat tax would be PLENTY.

Oh, and about my business showing a loss, thus getting me a refund? The IRS allows a business to show a loss for 3 years....so you just reincorporate under a new name, and start all over again. I have an LLC corporation so that costs about $1000 every 3 years.

Scott
I can't believe we have someone on the board that not only breaks the law, he is so proud of breaking the law, he posts it on the internet.

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post #28 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-02-2005, 06:52 AM
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Ah hell, I pretty much agree with 01WC on this, the world may be coming to an end. LOL
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post #29 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-02-2005, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White trash wagon
Found 3 in about 5 minutes

"Founded in 1905, heavy-equipment manufacturer Ingersoll-Rand Company Ltd. promotes its jackhammers as those that sculpted one of America’s icons, Mount Rushmore National Memorial. But three months after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, Ingersoll-Rand (IR) set up a tiny office in the tax haven of Bermuda and reincorporated there. Today, while holding tens of millions of dollars in government contracts, including the U.S. Capitol Visitor Center, IR uses its Bermuda incorporation to avoid paying about $40 million annually in U.S. taxes."

Ingersoll Rand (tools, industrial equipment) HQ in Bermuda and will NOT pay $40M in taxes

Tyco International (toys, alarms, others) HQ in Bermuda and will NOT pay $600M in taxes

Stanley tools HQ in Bermuda and will NOT pay $30M in taxes.

The US Government estimates that it looses $160 BILLION a year in taxes because of US corporations with offshore headquarters.

Scott
Ingersoll-Rand has a U.S executive office, and files a 10Q with the SEC just like every other corporation, and pays taxes on earnings just like every US based corporation.

http://www.irco.com/contacts.html

IRCO is an international company, so they can have their HQ wherever they like. Same for Tyco. Also, Tyco is based in Bermuda, but is mostly an international company. Less than 40 percent of their earnings come from the US. Just because a company sells things here doesn't mean they're offshore to avoid taxation. Then you could say the same thing about anybody, BMW, Lexus, Airbus, anything.

And ditto about the IRS thing. They may have dumb people answering the phone, but the smartest people in the organization are in the group that is designed to hunt down people who try to screw them.
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post #30 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-02-2005, 07:35 AM
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And ditto about the IRS thing. They may have dumb people answering the phone, but the smartest people in the organization are in the group that is designed to hunt down people who try to screw them.
Seriously. The entire reason why I had to make a journey through tax court was because the people on the phone could not add 2+2. If it wasn't on the paperwork they didn't want to hear about it.

Originally it was a mistake I made in that I forgot to offset some income with the pre-payment of taxes. In effect I paid the tax upon receipt of the income but forgot to report the pre-payment on the 1040.

1 year, three separate IRS offices across the south, 10 different IRS employees (including supervisors) and it ended up in tax court. The judge apologized to me for the entire matter and couldn't believe I had to take it this far.
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post #31 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-02-2005, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
Seriously. The entire reason why I had to make a journey through tax court was because the people on the phone could not add 2+2. If it wasn't on the paperwork they didn't want to hear about it.

Originally it was a mistake I made in that I forgot to offset some income with the pre-payment of taxes. In effect I paid the tax upon receipt of the income but forgot to report the pre-payment on the 1040.

1 year, three separate IRS offices across the south, 10 different IRS employees (including supervisors) and it ended up in tax court. The judge apologized to me for the entire matter and couldn't believe I had to take it this far.
God, your new av is scary....

<-- would glady pay 40% taxes for a net profit of $6B/qtr.

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post #32 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-02-2005, 08:33 AM
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Location: Where's my beer?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roscoe
God, your new av is scary....

<-- would glady pay 40% taxes for a net profit of $6B/qtr.
High school yearbook photo from 81.
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post #33 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-02-2005, 01:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blown4.6
They Need To Lower The Damn Gas Price's This Is Stupid They Made 10 Bil Of Us They Should Show Some Damn Grat.
For the last time, EXXON DOES NOT SET THE PRICE OF GAS
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post #34 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-02-2005, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
High school yearbook photo from 81.
you have some old balls....

Quote:
Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
God bless you Roscoe and all you do for humanity and this board in particular.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOSTED32V
You know Roscoe, I used to think that you were some 16 yr.old punk with a speech impediment, but now I want you to marry one of my daughters ...'H'
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post #35 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-02-2005, 01:29 PM
No Cerveza... No Trabajo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roscoe
you have some old balls....
They constantly itch too!
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post #36 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-02-2005, 02:54 PM
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lol..
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post #37 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-02-2005, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattica
For the last time, EXXON DOES NOT SET THE PRICE OF GAS
Quit making sense!
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post #38 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-02-2005, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasDevilDog
I can't believe we have someone on the board that not only breaks the law, he is so proud of breaking the law, he posts it on the internet.

Who were the Mustang orders that are cops on here?
What law have I broken TDD? I operate entirely within US tax codes. My losses are arrived at using standard business deductions, it's not my fault that the tax codes are rife with loop holes. It's probably because business lobbyist have our congress on a leash. I'm actually rather restrained in my use of business deductions, I know some who are much more aggressive.

The information I posted about the 3 corportations with Bermuda HQ's was off an MSN search and sourced from the AFL-CIO site, and the Christian Science Monitor site.

I'm surprised how easily you guys defend corporations that will ship your job overseas, outsource everything, and lie, cheat & steal to make more money. Not all corporations are corrupt, but far more than you might imagine. There are plenty of other Enrons, MCI's(Worldcom) and Tyco's out there.

Scott
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post #39 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-02-2005, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by black01gt
Hu, hu hu hu. I just crapped my pants. hu hu hu hu.
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post #40 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-02-2005, 07:30 PM
No Cerveza... No Trabajo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White trash wagon
I'm surprised how easily you guys defend corporations that will ship your job overseas, outsource everything, and lie, cheat & steal to make more money. Not all corporations are corrupt, but far more than you might imagine. There are plenty of other Enrons, MCI's(Worldcom) and Tyco's out there.

Scott
I'm not shipping any jobs overseas.

You should look at the dates of some of your queries. Stanley Works was thinking about moving offshore but decided to stay put.

The S&P data I posted doesn't come from the media but from corporate records (I have a nice database for my target customers)

Not all corporations are corrupt, nor is the majority of corporations are corrupt. Nor are the majority of corporations HQ'd in Bermuda or Antilles or some other offshore haven.

This is where the disconnect is. The media won't report the normal good corporation they report the scandals. As such it appears the majority of corporations are corrupt.
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post #41 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-02-2005, 08:51 PM
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Large corporations exist to make money. Profit is not a four letter word to me. Maybe it is because I work in the business world on a daily basis and know that I would do the same thing. No one has a duty to provide jobs or anything else to our society, the idea that some company has that obligation over their own profits is a trademark of Socialism. America has always been a society that adapts to change. Our jobs have always moved overseas because we are on the cutting edge of technology. That is the natural progress of technology, IE from cutting edge to the third world. Something new will come along to fill the niche that is left, it always does because that is the nature of capitalism.

Above all else I find it strange that the same people who cry about jobs being moved overseas are the same ones who think every company should be made to give insurance, vacation, family leave time, etc..etc...etc... I'm not referring to anyone here, just an observation of what never makes sense. I don't see how someone can be for such things and then complain when the company takes their job and moves it to Bangladesh where they can pay $2 a day. Unions are the absolute worst when it comes to this. It's always the evil company that is to blame, not the lazy union fuck who came to work and sat on a forklift half asleep for $25 an hour for ten years before he retired.
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post #42 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-03-2005, 06:48 AM
No Cerveza... No Trabajo
 
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Oh yea, good for Exxon bringing down 10B in profits. Wish I was running a company that could do that.

What I don't care for is Exxon and the others are not reinvesting those profits into new exploration or refining capacity. As such, it drives their future profits higher. People will always use crude until the last drop is out of the ground. Whenever that is is up for debate like global warming. Some say in two generations or so, some say 100s of years.

Exxon spent $5B in the third quarter buying back their shares. Typically, a company will buy back shares when they feel they are undervalued or when they are trying to prop up a stock price because of lagging fundementals. Neither is the case for Exxon.

How about taking the $5B and reinvest in increasing refining capacity?

Again, congrats to Exxon for bringing down $10B, first in US history. Microsoft and Citigroup both earn about 33%. Exxon earns about 10%. Their profit in relative terms is not obscene. The fact they are not reinvesting the profits in expanding exploration or capacity is obscene.

Microsoft spends over $2B a year in research and development. This is where the apple to apple profit comparisons stop. Exxon isn't anywhere near that in relative terms.
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post #43 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-03-2005, 09:48 AM
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Posts: 14,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by AL P
Large corporations exist to make money. Profit is not a four letter word to me. Maybe it is because I work in the business world on a daily basis and know that I would do the same thing. No one has a duty to provide jobs or anything else to our society, the idea that some company has that obligation over their own profits is a trademark of Socialism. America has always been a society that adapts to change. Our jobs have always moved overseas because we are on the cutting edge of technology. That is the natural progress of technology, IE from cutting edge to the third world. Something new will come along to fill the niche that is left, it always does because that is the nature of capitalism.

Above all else I find it strange that the same people who cry about jobs being moved overseas are the same ones who think every company should be made to give insurance, vacation, family leave time, etc..etc...etc... I'm not referring to anyone here, just an observation of what never makes sense. I don't see how someone can be for such things and then complain when the company takes their job and moves it to Bangladesh where they can pay $2 a day. Unions are the absolute worst when it comes to this. It's always the evil company that is to blame, not the lazy union fuck who came to work and sat on a forklift half asleep for $25 an hour for ten years before he retired.
My father was pro-union and I was raised thinking unions were good. I then started noticing that General Dynamics (now Lockheed) will negotiate with the unions for a big raise to avoid a strike and within a year they lay off several thousand employees. It seems like the unions get so many beneifts that they forget about job longevity for the new employees.

One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America

If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
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