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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 11:01 AM Thread Starter
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Question about the current issue of flags.

Just a quick question. Whenever the United States flag is only half way up the pole, can the Texas flag still be flown at full height or can it not be above the U.S. flag? I'm guessing it can't be. Yesterday, I just saw a bunch of U.S. flags up and didn't even see a Texas flag.

On a side note: Has anyone else see the bumper sticker that has the confederate flag that says "Heritage Not Hate"? Personally, I think that mentality is B.S. It's glorifying the time that Texas seceeded from the Union...why? Because after Lincoln was elected president most of the slave owners feared that they would lose their slaves. So you're either racist or you hate the fact that Texas is once again part of the Union.
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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 11:16 AM
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The Texas flag is not ever supposed to be flown above the US flag.
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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 11:19 AM
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http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html

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4. When flags of States, cities, or localities, or pennants of societies are flown on the same halyard with the flag of the United States, the latter should always be at the peak. When the flags are flown from adjacent staffs, the flag of the United States should be hoisted first and lowered last. No such flag or pennant may be placed above the flag of the United States or to the right of the flag of the United States (the viewer's left). When the flag is half-masted, both flags are half-masted, with the US flag at the mid-point and the other flag below.
Also,

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Is Texas's the only state flag allowed to fly at the same height as the US flag?

No, this is an urban legend. All state flags may fly at the same height as the U.S. flag. The U.S. flag must be on its right (the viewer's left), however. Texas's laws are consistent with those of the other states. See Texas flag code.

Last edited by Stroked71Bowtie; 09-12-2005 at 11:24 AM.
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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by poopnut2
On a side note: Has anyone else see the bumper sticker that has the confederate flag that says "Heritage Not Hate"? Personally, I think that mentality is B.S. It's glorifying the time that Texas seceeded from the Union...why? Because after Lincoln was elected president most of the slave owners feared that they would lose their slaves. So you're either racist or you hate the fact that Texas is once again part of the Union.
I know right
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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by poopnut2
On a side note: Has anyone else see the bumper sticker that has the confederate flag that says "Heritage Not Hate"? Personally, I think that mentality is B.S. It's glorifying the time that Texas seceeded from the Union...why? Because after Lincoln was elected president most of the slave owners feared that they would lose their slaves. So you're either racist or you hate the fact that Texas is once again part of the Union.
Bullshit. They didn't put it on the General Lee or on the Smokey and the Bandit Trans Am because they hate black people.





It is a symbol of southern rebellion. That's it. The south broke off to be sovereign, since they felt they were being told what to do by northern policymakers that had different interests than they did. One of those interests was slavery, but it was what they considered to be unfair taxation that caused the secession. Don't let anyone tell you it absolutely IS a symbol of racism, because of some morons that used it for their bullshit propoganda.
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post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 11:35 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 46Tbird
Bullshit. They didn't put it on the General Lee or on the Smokey and the Bandit Trans Am because they hate black people.





It is a symbol of southern rebellion. That's it. The south broke off to be sovereign, since they felt they were being told what to do by northern policymakers that had different interests than they did. One of those interests was slavery, but it was what they considered to be unfair taxation that caused the secession. Don't let anyone tell you it absolutely IS a symbol of racism, because of some morons that used it for their bullshit propoganda.
The MAIN issue was slavery. Take any elementary, Jr. High, Highschool, or College course and see if they say that "unfair taxation is the main cause of the civil war". That's what some honkey redneck POS is going to say because finally in the south racism towards african americans is socially unacceptable.

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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by poopnut2
Just a quick question. Whenever the United States flag is only half way up the pole, can the Texas flag still be flown at full height or can it not be above the U.S. flag? I'm guessing it can't be. Yesterday, I just saw a bunch of U.S. flags up and didn't even see a Texas flag.

On a side note: Has anyone else see the bumper sticker that has the confederate flag that says "Heritage Not Hate"? Personally, I think that mentality is B.S. It's glorifying the time that Texas seceeded from the Union...why? Because after Lincoln was elected president most of the slave owners feared that they would lose their slaves. So you're either racist or you hate the fact that Texas is once again part of the Union.
The War Between the States was not begun over slavery it was begun over state rights. It was not until after the Battle of Antietam that Lincoln publicly announced the Emancipation Proclamation. The North did not intend to end slavery and didn't want a war. Lincoln only went to war because he had to, he was a great man but not one who originally intended to end slavery by fighting against the south. As for the rebel flag I do not own one and concur that quite a few people use it as a statement towards racism. I myself was raised in Virginia had many family members who fought for the Army of Northern Virginia and see the flags of the South not just the Confederate Battle flag as a piece of history that is important
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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by 46Tbird
Bullshit. They didn't put it on the General Lee or on the Smokey and the Bandit Trans Am because they hate black people.





It is a symbol of southern rebellion. That's it. The south broke off to be sovereign, since they felt they were being told what to do by northern policymakers that had different interests than they did. One of those interests was slavery, but it was what they considered to be unfair taxation that caused the secession. Don't let anyone tell you it absolutely IS a symbol of racism, because of some morons that used it for their bullshit propoganda.
Agreed thank you. I am not racist and like the confederate flag due to southern pride. Hell I was in Kappa Alpha order in college and with Robert E Lee as their founding father the flag was a major symbol for the frat.

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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by poopnut2
The MAIN issue was slavery.
At this point you stop paying attention in class.
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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 12:02 PM
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The reason the confederate flag came to represent slavery can be credited to the KKK, not the civil war.

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post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 12:10 PM
 
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Any flag that is flying w/ the US flag should never, never be flown above the US flag. I've seen it happen at locations and I have personally went in side to tell them they were wrong. It's happened twice that I've gone into a place to tell them and both times they were ok with that. They just didn't know.

As for the Confederate flag...its ugly. Just plain ugly.
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post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by poopnut2
The MAIN issue was slavery. Take any elementary, Jr. High, Highschool, or College course and see if they say that "unfair taxation is the main cause of the civil war". That's what some honkey redneck POS is going to say because finally in the south racism towards african americans is socially unacceptable.
You dumbfuck. WHY would a quarter of a million Confederate soldiers fight to the death to protect the rights of a minority of people to continue owning slaves?

Put it in perspective: would you die to allow Exxon/Mobil to continue getting oil from OPEC so they can make record profits?

It's called history, crack a book sometime... one that wasn't written by a communist.
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post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 12:25 PM Thread Starter
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Was the war about slavery? Absolutely. If there had been no disagreement over the issue of slavery, the South would probably not have discerned a threat to its culture and the southern politicians would have been much less likely to seek "their right to secede." But was it only about slavery? No. It was also about the constitutional argument over whether or not a state had a right to leave the Union, and--of primary concern to most southern soldiers--the continuation of antebellum southern culture. Although the majority of Southerners had little interest in slaves, slavery was a primary interest of Southern politicians--and consequently the underlying cause of the South's desire to seek independence and state rights. Slavery was the main issue and cause of the civil war.
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post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 12:42 PM
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Okay, sure.

So when did Stars and Bars = Slavery? Because what you're saying there is that CBS was promoting slavery through 1985 when the Dukes of Hazzard went off the air.
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post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
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Okay, sure.

So when did Stars and Bars = Slavery? Because what you're saying there is that CBS was promoting slavery through 1985 when the Dukes of Hazzard went off the air.
I'm not saying that the symbol itself is about slavery but for the large part, what it stands for now, by most people is a racist symbol. Hell, my cousin has one on the back of his truck and he'll flat out tell you why he has it on. Although some people might use it as a sign of "I'm a rebel" which is stupid (like the Dukes of Hazzard show), or the less likely "Southern Pride" (get a texas tattoo, redneck), most people use it because it's a way to show how they feel towards blacks.
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post #16 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by poopnut2
I'm not saying that the symbol itself is about slavery but for the large part, what it stands for now, by most people is a racist symbol. ... most people use it because it's a way to show how they feel towards blacks.
I'm just wondering how you're quantifying this? Because I think it got that image when the KKK began using it, and black people began getting hypersensitive about anything race-related (towards them).
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post #17 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 12:59 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 46Tbird
I'm just wondering how you're quantifying this? Because I think it got that image when the KKK began using it, and black people began getting hypersensitive about anything race-related (towards them).
I might be over generalizing but one can't say that a lot of people don't use it for a bash at blacks. I agree that some races can be oversensitive about somethings but then again I, nor my ancestors were oppressed as far as I know. Racism still exists and until we do away with it on both sides it will always exist. I don't have "southern pride" and don't really see how anyone else my age can. Just like a black person of my age being pissed off about slavery when it was nearly 150 years ago. Now, I hate a Boston accent as much as the next Texan but I'm more proud to live in America than the southern portion of it.
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post #18 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Pro Trash
The War Between the States was not begun over slavery it was begun over state rights. It was not until after the Battle of Antietam that Lincoln publicly announced the Emancipation Proclamation. The North did not intend to end slavery and didn't want a war. Lincoln only went to war because he had to, he was a great man but not one who originally intended to end slavery by fighting against the south. As for the rebel flag I do not own one and concur that quite a few people use it as a statement towards racism. I myself was raised in Virginia had many family members who fought for the Army of Northern Virginia and see the flags of the South not just the Confederate Battle flag as a piece of history that is important
.
I would like to add, that if the Civil War was mainly about slavery, then President Lincoln would have emancipated all slaves at the beginning of the war. President Lincoln waited a year to emancipate the slaves and emancipation proclamation only effected slaves in states or territories that were in rebellion against the union.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_Proclamation
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post #19 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 01:14 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TexasDevilDog
I would like to add, that if the Civil War was mainly about slavery, then President Lincoln would have emancipated all slaves at the beginning of the war. President Lincoln waited a year to emancipate the slaves and emancipation proclamation only effected slaves in states or territories that were in rebellion against the union.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_Proclamation
The suceeding of the southern states was not started because Lincoln was for sure going to free the slaves but out of fear that he was going to.
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post #20 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 01:15 PM
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post #21 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 01:18 PM
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The suceeding of the southern states was not started because Lincoln was for sure going to free the slaves but out of fear that he was going to.
LMAO
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post #22 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 01:19 PM Thread Starter
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secede
Dammit.
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post #23 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 01:20 PM Thread Starter
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LMAO
You've done an excellent job contributing to this thread and backing up anything you've said.
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post #24 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 01:21 PM
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You've done an excellent job contributing to this thread and backing up anything you've said.
Danny seems to cover it thuroughly enough.
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post #25 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 01:24 PM Thread Starter
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Danny seems to cover it thuroughly enough.
He's not really covering anything "thuroughly". Moreso arguing back and forth between us with you saying "LMAO" every once in a while. I swear to god you're like that guy who would just sit at the back of the Tom Green show and do nothing.
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post #26 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 01:31 PM
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He's not really covering anything "thuroughly". Moreso arguing back and forth between us with you saying "LMAO" every once in a while. I swear to god you're like that guy who would just sit at the back of the Tom Green show and do nothing.
*yawn

To sit there and say the primary cause of the Civil War is slavery is pretty sad. I swear to god you must have been that kid that never read a book outside of the text books you were "forced" to read.
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post #27 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 01:32 PM
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I would like to add, that if the Civil War was mainly about slavery, then President Lincoln would have emancipated all slaves at the beginning of the war. President Lincoln waited a year to emancipate the slaves and emancipation proclamation only effected slaves in states or territories that were in rebellion against the union.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_Proclamation

Very true!
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post #28 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 01:39 PM Thread Starter
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*yawn

To sit there and say the primary cause of the Civil War is slavery is pretty sad. I swear to god you must have been that kid that never read a book outside of the text books you were "forced" to read.
Once again, you do nothing. You're pretty good at it too!
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post #29 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 01:42 PM
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You've done an excellent job contributing to this thread and backing up anything you've said.
I have a feeling the only reason you are jumping on Reds case is because he is actually concurring with the person who is most correct. This means he is not agreeing with you so you try to bring the heat off yourself by attacking him. You made the mistake of thinking you could match up but it looks as though Red has bested you. You have also proven that you have little comprehension of the historical writings of The War Between the States. If you base your concept analysis of this great American conflict off of simply regurgitating what you have heard from other equally uneducated philosophers of that war then feel free to be as ignorant as you wish.
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post #30 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 01:46 PM
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Once again, you do nothing. You're pretty good at it too!
Well just for you

I'll go ahead and throw in an:

Opressive federal government
High Taxes/tariffs
Competing nationalisms
Political turmoil
The definition of freedom
The preservation of the Union
The structure of our society and economy
The power of the Constitution at it's infancy
etc.

I'm sure slavery falls in there somewhere.
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post #31 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 01:52 PM Thread Starter
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I have a feeling the only reason you are jumping on Reds case is because he is actually concurring with the person who is most correct. This means he is not agreeing with you so you try to bring the heat off yourself by attacking him. You made the mistake of thinking you could match up but it looks as though Red has bested you. You have also proven that you have little comprehension of the historical writings of The War Between the States. If you base your concept analysis of this great American conflict off of simply regurgitating what you have heard from other equally uneducated philosophers of that war then feel free to be as ignorant as you wish.
I'm not jumping on him for siding with 46TBird. I'm jumping on him because he's done nothing to support his side of debate. 46TBird has really done little as well. The states SECEEDED( ) from the union in fear of slavery being abolished. The South's economy was largely based on slavery due to the fact that they could pay a ridiculously low amount of money to it's workers. Not everyone in the south or Texas wanted to seceed because most people didn't even own slaves, since the large majority of the southern population was poor. However, the people that mattered at the time, the rich and the political did own slaves and had a lot to lose with the abolition of slavery. There were probably other reasons as far as taxes and everything goes but the fear of losing everything they had which was directly connected with being able to own slaves was the main reason that the southern states wanted out of the union.

That is what I have read. Now, if there are other books stating otherwise, I have not read them. Not because I don't want to know more about the subject, but because they have not been presented to me. I would like to think after 2 college history courses, and a college government course I would've been given the correct information.
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post #32 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 01:55 PM
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The states SECEEDED( )
try again
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post #33 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 02:01 PM
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However, the people that mattered at the time, the rich and the political did own slaves and had a lot to lose with the abolition of slavery.
You make it sound so cut and dry. Do you really think that northern businessmen wanted to free slaves because they stood for freedom and they loved black folks? Hell no!

They wanted to ruin the southern businessmen to have more financial / political power...
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post #34 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 02:11 PM
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I'm not jumping on him for siding with 46TBird. I'm jumping on him because he's done nothing to support his side of debate. 46TBird has really done little as well. The states SECEEDED( ) from the union in fear of slavery being abolished. The South's economy was largely based on slavery due to the fact that they could pay a ridiculously low amount of money to it's workers. Not everyone in the south or Texas wanted to seceed because most people didn't even own slaves, since the large majority of the southern population was poor. However, the people that mattered at the time, the rich and the political did own slaves and had a lot to lose with the abolition of slavery. There were probably other reasons as far as taxes and everything goes but the fear of losing everything they had which was directly connected with being able to own slaves was the main reason that the southern states wanted out of the union.

That is what I have read. Now, if there are other books stating otherwise, I have not read them. Not because I don't want to know more about the subject, but because they have not been presented to me. I would like to think after 2 college history courses, and a college government course I would've been given the correct information.

I would say what you have been offered is basic information seeing that the courses you are describing run through this section of history and hit main objectives not the entire story. I am a 7th grade history teacher and I teach about this war every spring. You were correct that some in Texans did not approve of the war; in fact they vacated the office of the Governor for Sam Houston so he couldn't speak out against secession. The trouble started in the 1840s for the south when the country began to move from an agrarian economy to one of industry. It also didn't help that the south made most of its profits from exporting cotton and tobacco. The tariffs were the final straw in a long social gentlemanís fight between the north and south over votes. The north didn't approve of the south using the slave population to attain more representation on capital hill and they could have cared less for the most part about the slaves. The general consensus in the north is that slavery was immoral but they didn't intend to stop it.
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post #35 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 02:16 PM
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Agreed thank you. I am not racist and like the confederate flag due to southern pride. Hell I was in Kappa Alpha order in college and with Robert E Lee as their founding father the flag was a major symbol for the frat.
Hasn't Kappa Alpha Order been kicked off a few college campuses due to their views? Or was it due to the confederate flag, I read about it awhile back and was curious.
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post #36 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 02:49 PM
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slavery is not the main issue... millions of people didn't die over slavery, it was something that effected everyone in the south.. state rights, and their economic future.

Quote:
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I'm not jumping on him for siding with 46TBird. I'm jumping on him because he's done nothing to support his side of debate. 46TBird has really done little as well. The states SECEEDED( ) from the union in fear of slavery being abolished. The South's economy was largely based on slavery due to the fact that they could pay a ridiculously low amount of money to it's workers. Not everyone in the south or Texas wanted to seceed because most people didn't even own slaves, since the large majority of the southern population was poor. However, the people that mattered at the time, the rich and the political did own slaves and had a lot to lose with the abolition of slavery. There were probably other reasons as far as taxes and everything goes but the fear of losing everything they had which was directly connected with being able to own slaves was the main reason that the southern states wanted out of the union.

That is what I have read. Now, if there are other books stating otherwise, I have not read them. Not because I don't want to know more about the subject, but because they have not been presented to me. I would like to think after 2 college history courses, and a college government course I would've been given the correct information.
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post #37 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-12-2005, 02:50 PM Thread Starter
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You make it sound so cut and dry. Do you really think that northern businessmen wanted to free slaves because they stood for freedom and they loved black folks? Hell no!

They wanted to ruin the southern businessmen to have more financial / political power...
I know that racism wasn't strictly a southern thing. Hell, look at the Irish settlers that came into New York.

I f#cking hate spelling.
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