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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-22-2005, 09:18 AM Thread Starter
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Why do we wait for an attack to respond?...

This was taken from a Yahoo story about the bombings in London.

"MORE CLUES

British police have more clues from Thursday's attacks, including the unexploded bombs, witness reports and CCTV footage, than they had after the July 7 suicide bombs that killed 52 commuters and the four bombers and wounded 700.

Security experts warned there could be more attacks and police used the occasion to call for sweeping new powers, including being allowed to hold terrorism suspects for up to three months without charge."

Why do wehave to have people killed in attacks before we decide to treat terrorists serioulsy? I saw a woman from an ACLU group in NY saying that random searches in the NYC subway system would be illegal and would easily be used by police to profile minorities. Therefore she said they should not search ANY subway riders. I wonder if she would have kept her trap shut if there had been an attack and her family was killed before the searches. I doubt it.

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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-22-2005, 09:27 AM
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Profiling minorities: Lets see, of the terrorist that have blown up people in the last 4 years, most if not all have been muslim and middle eastern to middle asian desent. So, should the police waste their time checking a little old black lady, if she has a bomb. I think not. The police should profile to make their best guess effort to stop bombers.

As for holding people up to 3 weeks: in Britian their police do a lot of things that ours can not.
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-22-2005, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90 Notch
This was taken from a Yahoo story about the bombings in London.

"MORE CLUES

British police have more clues from Thursday's attacks, including the unexploded bombs, witness reports and CCTV footage, than they had after the July 7 suicide bombs that killed 52 commuters and the four bombers and wounded 700.

Security experts warned there could be more attacks and police used the occasion to call for sweeping new powers, including being allowed to hold terrorism suspects for up to three months without charge."

Why do wehave to have people killed in attacks before we decide to treat terrorists serioulsy? I saw a woman from an ACLU group in NY saying that random searches in the NYC subway system would be illegal and would easily be used by police to profile minorities. Therefore she said they should not search ANY subway riders. I wonder if she would have kept her trap shut if there had been an attack and her family was killed before the searches. I doubt it.
Because some of the police would use the power to harass minorities. Hell some of them would use it to harass anyone they felt like fucking with. That's one of the facts of life. You got a point but so do the ACLU idiots.

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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-22-2005, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasDevilDog
Profiling minorities: Lets see, of the terrorist that have blown up people in the last 4 years, most if not all have been muslim and middle eastern to middle asian desent. So, should the police waste their time checking a little old black lady, if she has a bomb. I think not. The police should profile to make their best guess effort to stop bombers.

As for holding people up to 3 weeks: in Britian their police do a lot of things that ours can not.
That ain't no shit. The brits get to run wild.

And I agree, they should just come out and say if you are middle eastern then prepare to be fucked with.
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-22-2005, 09:38 AM
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Did y'all see this one? My buddy sent this to me the other day... please read.


HISTORY TEST

Please pause a moment, reflect back, and take the following multiple choice test.

The events are actual cuts from past history. They actually happened!!!

Do you remember?

1. 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by:

a. Superman
b. Jay Lenno
c. Harry Potter
d. Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 40

2. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by:

a. Olga Corbett
b. Sitting Bull
c. Arnold Schwarzenegger
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

3. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by:

a. Lost Norwegians
b. Elvis
c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

4. During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:

a. John Dillinger
b. The King of Sweden
c. The Boy Scouts
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

5. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
a. A pizza delivery boy
b. Pee Wee Herman
c. Geraldo Rivera
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

6. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by:

a. The Smurfs
b. Davy Jones
c. The Little Mermaid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

7. In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy diver trying to rescue passengers was murdered by:

a. Captain Kidd
b. Charles Lindberg
c. Mother Teresa
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

8. In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:

a. Scooby Doo
b. The Tooth Fairy
c. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

9. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:

a. Richard Simmons
b. Grandma Moses
c. Michael Jordan
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

10. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:

a. Mr. Rogers
b. Hillary Clinton, to distract attention from Wild Bill' s women problems
c. The World Wrestling Federation
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

11. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the passengers.Thousands of people were killed by:

a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd
b. The Supreme Court of Florida
c. Mr. Bean
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

12. In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:

a. Enron
b. The Lutheran Church
c. The NFL
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

13. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:

a. Bonnie and Clyde
b. Captain Kangaroo
c. Billy Graham
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40



Nope, .....I really don't see a pattern here to justify profiling, do you?

So, to ensure we Americans never offend anyone, particularly fanatics intent on killing us, airport security screeners will no longer be allowed to profile certain people. They must conduct random searches of 80-year-old women, little kids, airline pilots with proper identification, secret agents who are members of the President's security detail, 85-year old Congressmen with metal hips, and Medal of Honor winning and former Governor Joe Foss, but leave Muslim Males between the ages 17 and 40 alone because of profiling.

Let's send this to as many people as we can so that the Gloria Aldreds and other dunder-headed attorneys along with Federal Justices that want to thwart common sense, feel doubly ashamed of themselves - if they have any such sense.

As a writer of the award winning story "Forrest Gump" so aptly put it, "Stupid is as stupid does."

mardyn

R.I.P. James E. Berry 01/03/57-- 01/14/05

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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-22-2005, 09:38 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AL P
Because some of the police would use the power to harass minorities. Hell some of them would use it to harass anyone they felt like fucking with. That's one of the facts of life. You got a point but so do the ACLU idiots.
My point is that we should put the hard line policies in place and then deal with the abusers of the policy. The problem is that if you don't have the policy, people get killed.

Bill O'Reilly has an open request to have anyone who has been illegally detained or had property taken or illegally searched under the Patriot Act to come forward. To date no one has, but of course the ACLU says there are abuses every day. Hmmm, sounds like if there were this many they would come forward and prove it to make O'Reilly look bad.

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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-22-2005, 09:50 AM
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Second quiz:

1. The typical serial killer is:
A. White, male, 20-30 yrs, middle class
B. Black, male, 20-30 yrs, poor
C. Middle Eastern descent, male, 20-30 yrs, poor

2. The typical Mass killer is:
A. White, Male, 25-40, middle class
B. Black, male, 20-30 yrs, poor
C. Middle Eastern descent, male, 20-30 yrs, poor

3. The typical Spree Killer is:
A. White, Male, 20-30, middle class
B. Black, male, 20-30 yrs, poor
C. Middle Eastern descent, male, 20-30 yrs, poor

4. The typical Pedophile is:
A. White, Male, 20-30, middle class
B. Black, male, 20-30 yrs, poor
C. Middle Eastern descent, male, 20-30 yrs, poor

5. The typical rapist is:
A. White, Male, 20-30, middle class
B. Black, male, 20-30 yrs, poor
C. Middle Eastern descent, male, 20-30 yrs, poor


So next time your white ass is pulled over just remember, the cop isn't giving you a hassle, he is just making sure you are not a serial killer, Mass killer, spree killer, pedophile or rapist.

As far as the random checks go, more power to the police force. People don't seem to be bitching too much anymore about the increased time to check-in for flight. Don't know why other mass-transit devices such as busses, trains and subways have gotten away with it for so long.
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-22-2005, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90 Notch
My point is that we should put the hard line policies in place and then deal with the abusers of the policy. The problem is that if you don't have the policy, people get killed.

Bill O'Reilly has an open request to have anyone who has been illegally detained or had property taken or illegally searched under the Patriot Act to come forward. To date no one has, but of course the ACLU says there are abuses every day. Hmmm, sounds like if there were this many they would come forward and prove it to make O'Reilly look bad.
Probably because not everyone tunes Bill O'Reilly in.

Quote:
In May 2004, Professor Steve Kurtz of the University of Buffalo reported his wife's death of cardiac arrest. The associate art professor, who was working on a project designed to warn the public about the dangers of biotechnology, was using bacterial cultures and biological equipment in his work. Police arriving at the scene found the equipment suspicious and notified the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force. The FBI cordoned off the block surrounding his house and impounded computers, manuscripts, books, and equipment for further analysis; the Buffalo Health Department temporarily condemned the house as a health risk while the cultures were analyzed. Kurtz was charged with violations under the Section 175 of the US Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act—a law which was expanded by the USA PATRIOT Act. A grand jury rejected these charges, but he is still charged with mail and wire fraud. [17] [18]

FBI agents used a USA PATRIOT Act "sneak and peek" search to secretly examine the home of Brandon Mayfield, who was wrongfully jailed for two weeks on suspicion of involvement in the Madrid train bombings. Agents seized three hard drives, 10 DNA samples preserved on cotton swabs and took 335 photos of personal items. Mayfield has filed a lawsuit against the U.S. government, contending that his rights were violated by his arrest and by the investigation against him. He also contends the Patriot Act is unconstitutional. [19]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PAT...SA_PATRIOT_Act
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-22-2005, 09:57 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
Probably because not everyone tunes Bill O'Reilly in.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PAT...SA_PATRIOT_Act
OK, would this have happened before the Patriot Act? Probably so.

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“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-22-2005, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90 Notch
OK, would this have happened before the Patriot Act? Probably so.
LOL.

"Show me some examples..."
"Here are a couple..."
"Oh yea, it would have happened before anyway!"
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-22-2005, 10:08 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
LOL.

"Show me some examples..."
"Here are a couple..."
"Oh yea, it would have happened before anyway!"
The arrest has so far not been proived illegal, look at what i posted and stop throwing up smoke and mirrors. So you laugh, but don't answer. Would it have happened the same way before the patriot Act or not? I say it would have. Sorry that just because you say it is so doesn't make it so. I guess I am not one of the followers that believe simply because you say it.

BTW, being arrested and not indicted is not proof that no crime was committed, just that a jury of peers did not indict. Just like innocent people get indicted, guilty people some times do not get indicted.

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If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-22-2005, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90 Notch
The arrest has so far not been proived illegal, look at what i posted and stop throwing up smoke and mirrors. So you laugh, but don't answer. Would it have happened the same way before the patriot Act or not? I say it would have. Sorry that just because you say it is so doesn't make it so. I guess I am not one of the followers that believe simply because you say it.

BTW, being arrested and not indicted is not proof that no crime was committed, just that a jury of peers did not indict. Just like innocent people get indicted, guilty people some times do not get indicted.
How is that smoke and mirrors? The authorities in 01WC's examples even claimed it as an action credible under the Patriot Act. So, what about the people who think that the Patriot Act is the violation in and of itself? You can't argue it as illegal, O'Reilly has worded himself very carefully to make his arguments appear strong. Even the ACLU calls them abuses not illegalities.

His answer was very good. The vast majority of people who listen to O'Reilly are going to be those who side with him and have no conflict with him. Someone feeling wronged by the Pat. Act would not want to listen to him cheering how great it is.
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-22-2005, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90 Notch
My point is that we should put the hard line policies in place and then deal with the abusers of the policy. The problem is that if you don't have the policy, people get killed.

Bill O'Reilly has an open request to have anyone who has been illegally detained or had property taken or illegally searched under the Patriot Act to come forward. To date no one has, but of course the ACLU says there are abuses every day. Hmmm, sounds like if there were this many they would come forward and prove it to make O'Reilly look bad.
Really? The problem is that no one gets "dealt with". That's typical bullshit. The police stick together, you of all people know that.

Here is the solution to the problem. EVERY bag gets searched. Doesn't matter whose it is, you get on the train with a bag or a heavy coat, you get patted down and you get the metal detector treatment. That way no one can claim they were singled out or anything like that. Lots of overtime for the officers too. That's the way to do it right.
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-22-2005, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
Second quiz:

1. The typical serial killer is:
A. White, male, 20-30 yrs, middle class
B. Black, male, 20-30 yrs, poor
C. Middle Eastern descent, male, 20-30 yrs, poor

2. The typical Mass killer is:
A. White, Male, 25-40, middle class
B. Black, male, 20-30 yrs, poor
C. Middle Eastern descent, male, 20-30 yrs, poor

3. The typical Spree Killer is:
A. White, Male, 20-30, middle class
B. Black, male, 20-30 yrs, poor
C. Middle Eastern descent, male, 20-30 yrs, poor

4. The typical Pedophile is:
A. White, Male, 20-30, middle class
B. Black, male, 20-30 yrs, poor
C. Middle Eastern descent, male, 20-30 yrs, poor

5. The typical rapist is:
A. White, Male, 20-30, middle class
B. Black, male, 20-30 yrs, poor
C. Middle Eastern descent, male, 20-30 yrs, poor


So next time your white ass is pulled over just remember, the cop isn't giving you a hassle, he is just making sure you are not a serial killer, Mass killer, spree killer, pedophile or rapist.

As far as the random checks go, more power to the police force. People don't seem to be bitching too much anymore about the increased time to check-in for flight. Don't know why other mass-transit devices such as busses, trains and subways have gotten away with it for so long.


and every serial killer, mass killer, spree killer, pedophile, and rapist commit their crimes for a common religous cause.
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-22-2005, 02:35 PM
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BTW, is now a bad time to point out that one of the suspects in the London incident is Asian???
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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-22-2005, 02:41 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exlude
How is that smoke and mirrors? The authorities in 01WC's examples even claimed it as an action credible under the Patriot Act. So, what about the people who think that the Patriot Act is the violation in and of itself? You can't argue it as illegal, O'Reilly has worded himself very carefully to make his arguments appear strong. Even the ACLU calls them abuses not illegalities.

His answer was very good. The vast majority of people who listen to O'Reilly are going to be those who side with him and have no conflict with him. Someone feeling wronged by the Pat. Act would not want to listen to him cheering how great it is.
If it is an action credible under the patriot Act then why did he use it to answer? Using an answer that did not apply to my question is smoke and mirrors IMO.

I only used O'Reilly as an example of a national show that asked for someone to come forward with an abuse or illegal act under tha Patriot Act. If O'Reilly is the problem, then take his name out and please find where someone was arrested, searched, or otherwise had their freedom taken away that only the Patriot Act authorized but otherwise was an abuse.

Let's get back on topic of the thread, why do we have to be attacked to take action? I say that if you don't want action, speak up now and say if we get attacked you won't hold any authority responsible if you won't allow that authority to put rules in place to stop the attack.

While I won't say there will never be another attack, I would bet there will be, I say the Patriot Act and a hard line stance by the current administration has had a huge affect in stopping the attacks since 9/11.

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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-22-2005, 02:42 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AL P
Really? The problem is that no one gets "dealt with". That's typical bullshit. The police stick together, you of all people know that.

Here is the solution to the problem. EVERY bag gets searched. Doesn't matter whose it is, you get on the train with a bag or a heavy coat, you get patted down and you get the metal detector treatment. That way no one can claim they were singled out or anything like that. Lots of overtime for the officers too. That's the way to do it right.
I have no problem with that. The ACLU has a problem with ANYONE being searched, so imagine how they would scream at everyone being searched without cause.

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If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
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I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-22-2005, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90 Notch
If it is an action credible under the patriot Act then why did he use it to answer? Using an answer that did not apply to my question is smoke and mirrors IMO.

I only used O'Reilly as an example of a national show that asked for someone to come forward with an abuse or illegal act under tha Patriot Act. If O'Reilly is the problem, then take his name out and please find where someone was arrested, searched, or otherwise had their freedom taken away that only the Patriot Act authorized but otherwise was an abuse.
Well your and O'Reilly's question is a smoke and mirrors, BS question in the first place. That's the point. It's not about what's "illegal" under the patriot act. The question should be abuses/credibility of the Act itself and the actions it allow to become "legal".

You want examples? See 01WC's post.
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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-22-2005, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jw33
and every serial killer, mass killer, spree killer, pedophile, and rapist commit their crimes for a common religous cause.
Yours was religion, his was race. Both equally stupid, his on purpose
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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-22-2005, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jw33
and every serial killer, mass killer, spree killer, pedophile, and rapist commit their crimes for a common religous cause.
WTF does that have to do with it?

I'm after white males in middle class America. Shit load more of them in America than Muslim terrorists. Guaran-fucking-tee you.
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post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-22-2005, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90 Notch
The arrest has so far not been proived illegal, look at what i posted and stop throwing up smoke and mirrors.
Time will come the courts take a while to turn sometimes. You should understand that by now.

I'm not throwing up and smoke and mirrors. It is you doing so.

You asked for some abuses, I showed them to you.
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post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-22-2005, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90 Notch
If it is an action credible under the patriot Act then why did he use it to answer? Using an answer that did not apply to my question is smoke and mirrors IMO..
What the hell are you talking about?

The Patriot Act has not had enough time to run through the courts yet.

Show me one case where some one claimed abuse and was subsequently told by the courts they were full of shit.
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post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-22-2005, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AL P
BTW, is now a bad time to point out that one of the suspects in the London incident is Asian???
This guy was central Asian, not Far Eastern, like most Americans think of Asians. My coworker from the form Soviet Union, Urzbekistan, is Asian.

Last edited by TexasDevilDog; 07-23-2005 at 07:40 AM.
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post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-23-2005, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasDevilDog
This guy was central Asian, not Far Eastern, like most Americans think of Asians. My coworker from the form Soviet Union, Urzbekistan, is Asian.
Actually he was Brazilian
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post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-23-2005, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra
Actually he was Brazilian
He said suspect not dead guy.
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post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-25-2005, 09:09 PM
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I have an answer!

The same reason Jane Fonda is allowed to Protest the Iraq War on a bus that runs on Veggie Oil, America is 1 Part Conservative, 1 Part Democrat and 8 Parts Dumb Ass!
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post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-26-2005, 04:24 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro Trash
The same reason Jane Fonda is allowed to Protest the Iraq War on a bus that runs on Veggie Oil, America is 1 Part Conservative, 1 Part Democrat and 8 Parts Dumb Ass!
So True.

Damn Hanoi Jane!
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post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-26-2005, 08:56 PM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 14,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by tealsnake93
So True.

Damn Hanoi Jane!
She is on her way to becoming Jihad Jane. LOL!

One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America

If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
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