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post #1 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-15-2004, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up Nothing like a little fresh Vonnegut to put things in perspective.

This man has a window into my mind. I wish I could be so articulate.

Many years ago, I was so innocent I still considered it possible
that we
could become the humane and reasonable America so many members of my
generation used to dream of. We dreamed of such an America during the
Great
Depression, when there were no jobs. And then we fought and often died
for
that dream during the Second World War, when there was no peace.
But I know now that there is not a chance in hell of America’s
becoming
humane and reasonable. Because power corrupts us, and absolute power
corrupts absolutely. Human beings are chimpanzees who get crazy drunk
on
power. By saying that our leaders are power-drunk chimpanzees, am I in
danger of wrecking the morale of our soldiers fighting and dying in the
Middle East? Their morale, like so many bodies, is already shot to
pieces.
They are being treated, as I never was, like toys a rich kid got for
Christmas.
-------------------------
When you get to my age, if you get to my age, which is 81, and if
you
have reproduced, you will find yourself asking your own children, who
are
themselves middle-aged, what life is all about. I have seven kids, four
of
them adopted.
Many of you reading this are probably the same age as my
grandchildren.
They, like you, are being royally shafted and lied to by our Baby
Boomer
corporations and government.
I put my big question about life to my biological son Mark. Mark is
a
pediatrician, and author of a memoir, The Eden Express. It is about his
crackup, straightjacket and padded cell stuff, from which he recovered
sufficiently to graduate from Harvard Medical School.
Dr. Vonnegut said this to his doddering old dad: “Father, we are
here to
help each other get through this thing, whatever it is.” So I pass that
on
to you. Write it down, and put it in your computer, so you can forget
it.
I have to say that’s a pretty good sound bite, almost as good as,
“Do
unto others as you would have them do unto you.” A lot of people think
Jesus said that, because it is so much the sort of thing Jesus liked to
say. But it was actually said by Confucius, a Chinese philosopher, 500
years before there was that greatest and most humane of human beings,
named
Jesus Christ.
The Chinese also gave us, via Marco Polo, pasta and the formula for
gunpowder. The Chinese were so dumb they only used gunpowder for
fireworks.
And everybody was so dumb back then that nobody in either hemisphere
even
knew that there was another one.
But back to people, like Confucius and Jesus and my son the doctor,
Mark, who’ve said how we could behave more humanely, and maybe make the
world a less painful place. One of my favorites is Eugene Debs, from
Terre
Haute in my native state of Indiana. Get a load of this:
Eugene Debs, who died back in 1926, when I was only 4, ran 5 times
as
the Socialist Party candidate for president, winning 900,000 votes, 6
percent of the popular vote, in 1912, if you can imagine such a ballot.
He
had this to say while campaigning:
As long as there is a lower class, I am in it.

As long as there is a criminal element, I’m of it.

As long as there is a soul in prison, I am not free.

Doesn’t anything socialistic make you want to throw up? Like
great
public schools or health insurance for all?

How about Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount, the Beatitudes?

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the Earth.

Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the
children
of God. …

And so on.

Not exactly planks in a Republican platform. Not exactly Donald
Rumsfeld
or Dick Cheney stuff.

For some reason, the most vocal Christians among us never mention
the
Beatitudes. But, often with tears in their eyes, they demand that the
Ten
Commandments be posted in public buildings. And of course that’s Moses,
not
Jesus. I haven’t heard one of them demand that the Sermon on the Mount,
the
Beatitudes, be posted anywhere.

“Blessed are the merciful” in a courtroom? “Blessed are the
peacemakers”
in the Pentagon? Give me a break!

-------------------------

There is a tragic flaw in our precious Constitution, and I don’t
know
what can be done to fix it. This is it: Only nut cases want to be
president.

But, when you stop to think about it, only a nut case would want to
be a
human being, if he or she had a choice. Such treacherous,
untrustworthy,
lying and greedy animals we are!

I was born a human being in 1922 A.D. What does “A.D.” signify? That
commemorates an inmate of this lunatic asylum we call Earth who was
nailed
to a wooden cross by a bunch of other inmates. With him still
conscious,
they hammered spikes through his wrists and insteps, and into the wood.
Then they set the cross upright, so he dangled up there where even the
shortest person in the crowd could see him writhing this way and that.

Can you imagine people doing such a thing to a person?

No problem. That’s entertainment. Ask the devout Roman Catholic Mel
Gibson, who, as an act of piety, has just made a fortune with a movie
about
how Jesus was tortured. Never mind what Jesus said.

During the reign of King Henry the Eighth, founder of the Church of
England, he had a counterfeiter boiled alive in public. Show biz again.

Mel Gibson’s next movie should be The Counterfeiter. Box office
records
will again be broken.

One of the few good things about modern times: If you die horribly
on
television, you will not have died in vain. You will have entertained
us.

-------------------------

And what did the great British historian Edward Gibbon, 1737-1794
A.D.,
have to say about the human record so far? He said, “History is indeed
little more than the register of the crimes, follies and misfortunes of
mankind.”

The same can be said about this morning’s edition of the New York
Times.

The French-Algerian writer Albert Camus, who won a Nobel Prize for
Literature in 1957, wrote, “There is but one truly serious
philosophical
problem, and that is suicide.”

So there’s another barrel of laughs from literature. Camus died in
an
automobile accident. His dates? 1913-1960 A.D.

Listen. All great literature is about what a bummer it is to be a
human
being: Moby Dick, Huckleberry Finn, The Red Badge of Courage, the Iliad
and
the Odyssey, Crime and Punishment, the Bible and The Charge of the
Light
Brigade.

But I have to say this in defense of humankind: No matter in what
era in
history, including the Garden of Eden, everybody just got there. And,
except for the Garden of Eden, there were already all these crazy games
going on, which could make you act crazy, even if you weren’t crazy to
begin with. Some of the games that were already going on when you got
here
were love and hate, liberalism and conservatism, automobiles and credit
cards, golf and girls’ basketball.

Even crazier than golf, though, is modern American politics, where,
thanks to TV and for the convenience of TV, you can only be one of two
kinds of human beings, either a liberal or a conservative.

Actually, this same sort of thing happened to the people of England
generations ago, and Sir William Gilbert, of the radical team of
Gilbert
and Sullivan, wrote these words for a song about it back then:

I often think it’s comical

How nature always does contrive

That every boy and every gal

That’s born into the world alive

Is either a little Liberal

Or else a little Conservative.

Which one are you in this country? It’s practically a law of life
that
you have to be one or the other? If you aren’t one or the other, you
might
as well be a doughnut.

If some of you still haven’t decided, I’ll make it easy for you.

If you want to take my guns away from me, and you’re all for
murdering
fetuses, and love it when homosexuals marry each other, and want to
give
them kitchen appliances at their showers, and you’re for the poor,
you’re a
liberal.

If you are against those perversions and for the rich, you’re a
conservative.

What could be simpler?

-------------------------

My government’s got a war on drugs. But get this: The two most
widely
abused and addictive and destructive of all substances are both
perfectly
legal.

One, of course, is ethyl alcohol. And President George W. Bush, no
less,
and by his own admission, was smashed or tiddley-poo or four sheets to
the
wind a good deal of the time from when he was 16 until he was 41. When
he
was 41, he says, Jesus appeared to him and made him knock off the
sauce,
stop gargling nose paint.

Other drunks have seen pink elephants.

And do you know why I think he is so pissed off at Arabs? They
invented
algebra. Arabs also invented the numbers we use, including a symbol for
nothing, which nobody else had ever had before. You think Arabs are
dumb?
Try doing long division with Roman numerals.

We’re spreading democracy, are we? Same way European explorers
brought
Christianity to the Indians, what we now call “Native Americans.”

How ungrateful they were! How ungrateful are the people of Baghdad
today.

So let’s give another big tax cut to the super-rich. That’ll teach
bin
Laden a lesson he won’t soon forget. Hail to the Chief.

That chief and his cohorts have as little to do with Democracy as
the
Europeans had to do with Christianity. We the people have absolutely no
say
in whatever they choose to do next. In case you haven’t noticed,
they’ve
already cleaned out the treasury, passing it out to pals in the war and
national security rackets, leaving your generation and the next one
with a
perfectly enormous debt that you’ll be asked to repay.

Nobody let out a peep when they did that to you, because they have
disconnected every burglar alarm in the Constitution: The House, the
Senate, the Supreme Court, the FBI, the free press (which, having been
embedded, has forsaken the First Amendment) and We the People.

About my own history of foreign substance abuse. I’ve been a coward
about heroin and cocaine and LSD and so on, afraid they might put me
over
the edge. I did smoke a joint of marijuana one time with Jerry Garcia
and
the Grateful Dead, just to be sociable. It didn’t seem to do anything
to
me, one way or the other, so I never did it again. And by the grace of
God,
or whatever, I am not an alcoholic, largely a matter of genes. I take a
couple of drinks now and then, and will do it again tonight. But two is
my
limit. No problem.

I am of course notoriously hooked on cigarettes. I keep hoping the
things will kill me. A fire at one end and a fool at the other.

But I’ll tell you one thing: I once had a high that not even crack
cocaine could match. That was when I got my first driver’s license!
Look
out, world, here comes Kurt Vonnegut.

And my car back then, a Studebaker, as I recall, was powered, as are
almost all means of transportation and other machinery today, and
electric
power plants and furnaces, by the most abused and addictive and
destructive
drugs of all: fossil fuels.

When you got here, even when I got here, the industrialized world
was
already hopelessly hooked on fossil fuels, and very soon now there
won’t be
any more of those. Cold turkey.

Can I tell you the truth? I mean this isn’t like TV news, is it?

Here’s what I think the truth is: We are all addicts of fossil fuels
in
a state of denial, about to face cold turkey.

And like so many addicts about to face cold turkey, our leaders are
now
committing violent crimes to get what little is left of what we’re
hooked on.
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post #2 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-16-2004, 03:59 PM
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Re: Nothing like a little fresh Vonnegut to put things in perspective.

I got most of it, though I missed some parts while I was jumping from side to side, avoiding the falling sky......

Our leaders are power drunk chimpanzees?

Just because you (not you, Mr. Vonnegut) wrap it up with pretty bows, fancy paper, and gold ribbon, it doesn't change the contents of the package: thit's still a load of shit. When you break down all his well penned verses, you're still stuck with that same Bush and Republican loathing shit you can get from "Bush is a coward," "Bush didn't really win," or the tried and true "Bush sucks."

Good read, none the less. I just don't agree with the message, any more than I agree with famed "documetary director" Michael Moore's.

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post #3 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 03:58 AM
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Re: Re: Nothing like a little fresh Vonnegut to put things in perspective.

Quote:
Originally posted by HookEm
I got most of it, though I missed some parts while I was jumping from side to side, avoiding the falling sky......

Our leaders are power drunk chimpanzees?

Just because you (not you, Mr. Vonnegut) wrap it up with pretty bows, fancy paper, and gold ribbon, it doesn't change the contents of the package: thit's still a load of shit. When you break down all his well penned verses, you're still stuck with that same Bush and Republican loathing shit you can get from "Bush is a coward," "Bush didn't really win," or the tried and true "Bush sucks."

Good read, none the less. I just don't agree with the message, any more than I agree with famed "documetary director" Michael Moore's.
One day, you'll be able to make decisions for yourself, realize how pathetic your life has been, and hopefully end it before voicing any more opinions. Until then, we'll just ignore you.

“…what a disgrace it would be for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.” - Socrates
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post #4 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 04:00 AM
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That guy is a genius. Has anybody read any of his books?


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post #5 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by That_Is_My_El_Camino
That guy is a genius. Has anybody read any of his books?
All of them. If someone can read his works without realizing he is a genius, they shouldn't read. Not to say they have to agree with him. I don't agree with everything he says, but I do know that he's smarter than I am, and I think that's the key to understanding, especially since he so readily admits that there are others smarter than he is.

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post #6 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 04:10 AM
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I guess HookEm just doesn't understand metaphors.


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post #7 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 04:13 AM
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Re: Re: Re: Nothing like a little fresh Vonnegut to put things in perspective.

We being you and the lil mousie in your pocket?
Or the voices in your head?


Quote:
Originally posted by tex
One day, you'll be able to make decisions for yourself, realize how pathetic your life has been, and hopefully end it before voicing any more opinions. Until then, we'll just ignore you.

color=#606060]
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post #8 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 04:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by That_Is_My_El_Camino
That guy is a genius. Has anybody read any of his books?

And just becuase he has all the book sense in the world, it doesn't make him any less wrong. Yes, he's a genius.....but the message is still, in a nutshell, "I hate W."

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Quote:
"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
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post #9 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 04:16 AM
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Re: Re: Nothing like a little fresh Vonnegut to put things in perspective.

Quote:
Originally posted by HookEm
I got most of it, though I missed some parts while I was jumping from side to side, avoiding the falling sky......

Our leaders are power drunk chimpanzees?

Just because you (not you, Mr. Vonnegut) wrap it up with pretty bows, fancy paper, and gold ribbon, it doesn't change the contents of the package: thit's still a load of shit. When you break down all his well penned verses, you're still stuck with that same Bush and Republican loathing shit you can get from "Bush is a coward," "Bush didn't really win," or the tried and true "Bush sucks."

Good read, none the less. I just don't agree with the message, any more than I agree with famed "documetary director" Michael Moore's.
This comment fits nicely with Mr. Vonnegut's argument that you're either a liberal or you're either a conservative. I do hope you saw the part about modern American politics.


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post #10 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HookEm
And just becuase he has all the book sense in the world, it doesn't make him any less wrong. Yes, he's a genius.....but the message is still, in a nutshell, "I hate W."
I believe the message is more along the lines of, "Am I the only one that can see how utterly fucked up this country is?" (in a nutshell).


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post #11 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by That_Is_My_El_Camino
I guess HookEm just doesn't understand metaphors.

I understand he is a typical leftist. The only difference in him and others, is that he can say "W Sucks" far more eloquently.



I guess this is a metaphor too, eh?
"And my car back then, a Studebaker, as I recall, was powered, as are
almost all means of transportation and other machinery today, and
electric
power plants and furnaces, by the most abused and addictive and
destructive
drugs of all: fossil fuels."


Now go on...shouldnt you be getting your ass drug somewhere? OR maybe hitting a curb...I forget.
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post #12 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 04:21 AM
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That's good.

But, alas, it's too early.


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post #13 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 04:34 AM
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I've always admired Vonnegut's work, especially "Cat's Cradle." That is one of my all time favorite books.

Since you are posting excerpts, you should throw in a piece from Dante's "Inferno" ....just a thought.

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post #14 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 06:51 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by HookEm
And just becuase he has all the book sense in the world, it doesn't make him any less wrong. Yes, he's a genius.....but the message is still, in a nutshell, "I hate W."

Whats wrong with not liking W? I think its a brilliant look at how ridiculously everything has to be instantlly categorized in our culture. Which is funny, since thats what you just did buy saying all it is, is "I Hate Dubaya."



I've read all of Vs' books. I was most impressed with Galapagos, Cats Cradle, Bluebeard and God Blass you Mr Rosewater.
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post #15 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 02:03 PM
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Now that I'm awake, I can communicate more clearly.
I would say he has quite a bit more "insight" and "wisdom" than "book sense."


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post #16 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 03:45 PM
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No, he really doesn't. He spews out the same liberal talking points, dressed up nicely. And he refers to the Bible as "great literature about what a bummer it is to be a human being."


Quote:
But I know now that there is not a chance in hell of America’s becoming humane and reasonable
Hmmm....nah, that doesn't sound like typical "America sucks" rhetoric. Nope. Not at all.


Quote:
As long as there is a soul in prison, I am not free.
Oh no...somebody call the WAHHHHHmbulance. Maybe he should figure out how to stop all crime in America?

after references to Biblical quotes:
Quote:
Not exactly planks in a Republican platform. Not exactly Donald Rumsfeld
or Dick Cheney stuff.
The same crap spewed out at www.democraticunderground.com , pretty much.

Quote:
For some reason, the most vocal Christians among us never mention the Beatitudes. But, often with tears in their eyes, they demand that the Ten Commandments be posted in public buildings.
Wow....there's some innovative thought! Have I heard THAT before..oh wait, only 10,000 other times.....

Quote:
So let’s give another big tax cut to the super-rich. That’ll teach bin Laden a lesson he won’t soon forget. Hail to the Chief.
I thoguht that was Dean? Or KErry? Or KEnnedy? Or Daschle?

Quote:
That chief and his cohorts have as little to do with Democracy as the Europeans had to do with Christianity. We the people have absolutely no say in whatever they choose to do next. In case you haven’t noticed, they’ve already cleaned out the treasury, passing it out to pals in the war and national security rackets, leaving your generation and the next one
with a perfectly enormous debt that you’ll be asked to repay.
Again, where has this been said? The sky is falling, the sky falling.

Quote:
And my car back then, a Studebaker, as I recall, was powered, as are almost all means of transportation and other machinery today, and electric power plants and furnaces, by the most abused and addictive and destructive drugs of all: fossil fuels.

And like so many addicts about to face cold turkey, our leaders are now committing violent crimes to get what little is left of what we’re hooked on.
Now, how is the above not just a regurgitation of liberal talking points?? ALL of it.
If Brittney Spears takes a shit in a toilet and doesnt flush, its still just shit...it might have came out of a spectacualr ass....but when broken down, it's just a pile of shit.

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post #17 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 04:31 PM
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I don't see liberalism. I see truth.


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post #18 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Now, how is the above not just a regurgitation of liberal talking points?? ALL of it.
If Brittney Spears takes a shit in a toilet and doesnt flush, its still just shit...it might have came out of a spectacualr ass....but when broken down, it's just a pile of shit.

Quote:
Originally posted by That_Is_My_El_Camino
I don't see liberalism. I see truth.

good...finally!

color=#606060]
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"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
Quote:
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post #19 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
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good...finally!
Oh, you seem to need clarification. I see truth in Vonnegut's words where you see liberalism, and I see a pile of shit in your own words.


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post #20 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 04:50 PM
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And all I see is someone who seems to have a hard time keeping his car away from the raised ledges that we call curbs.


Quote:
Originally posted by That_Is_My_El_Camino
Oh, you seem to need clarification. I see truth in Vonnegut's words where you see liberalism, and I see a pile of shit in your own words.

color=#606060]
Quote:
"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
Quote:
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Not too awful hard. Only happened once. By the way, when you get me with a decent curb-smacking joke, I'll laugh.

And you did say, "pile of shit," that's pretty much what I got out of your words.


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post #22 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 04:57 PM
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Now that was original...


Go practice driving a straight line......


Quote:
Originally posted by That_Is_My_El_Camino
Not too awful hard. Only happened once. By the way, when you get me with a decent curb-smacking joke, I'll laugh.

And you did say, "pile of shit," that's pretty much what I got out of your words.

color=#606060]
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post #23 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 04:59 PM
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I ownz straight lines, it's just those pesky 360s in the rain that are giving me trouble.


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post #24 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 05:11 PM
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I don't see liberalism. I see truth.

You're not too quick are you.
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post #25 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 99SVTour
You're not too quick are you.
I'd say I'm no less than quick you.


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post #26 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 05:14 PM
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I'd say I'm no less than quick you.

uumm... try restating that, I have about 3 ideas of what you were trying to say before you butchered the end of your statement.
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post #27 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 05:16 PM
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I would say that I am no less (quick) than sharp-as-a-tack you.


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post #28 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 05:17 PM
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Meaning: you're quick, but I'm no less quick than you.


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post #29 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 05:22 PM
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Meaning: you're quick, but I'm no less quick than you.

You're just post whoring aren't you .
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post #30 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 05:28 PM
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Not in here. I just realized that the last one would probably be a little too tough so I broke it down to where a power-drunk chimpanzee from Texas could understand it.


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post #31 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-19-2004, 05:40 PM
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Not in here. I just realized that the last one would probably be a little too tough so I broke it down to where a power-drunk chimpanzee from Texas could understand it.

I'm plenty quick. I think the problem was your grammar. If you'd said " I'd say I'm no less quick than you" it would have made total sense. Hell, if you'd said " I'm no less than you quick" I still could have deciphered(sp) your meaning.But you said "I'd say I'm no less than quick you." which makes little to no sense.
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post #32 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-23-2004, 09:36 AM
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There has always been a small population of pseudo intellectuals that have made a career of reminding us that ‘these’ are the worst of times. Doom saying is a popular vocation for those that seek revolution. But a caution for those who do find a voice in the rambling hyperbole of an embittered old socialist - consider the motivations behind the rhetoric.

In the true spirit of enlightenment I will counter your ill chosen selection with one of my own. It’s a lengthy read – but it is the best expression of the current American experience I have yet found. Read ALL of it. I don’t think it will change your mind – but you will have a much better understanding of what is at stake. You might even better understand yourself.


http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000099.html

http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000100.html
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post #33 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-23-2004, 01:15 PM
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Thumbs up Re: Re: Re: Nothing like a little fresh Vonnegut to put things in perspective.

Quote:
Originally posted by tex
One day, you'll be able to make decisions for yourself, realize how pathetic your life has been, and hopefully end it before voicing any more opinions. Until then, we'll just ignore you.

I'm not holding my breath. A negative word towards Bush doesn't even have to be spoken for his blinded rage to rear it's ugly head. I'm not the least bit surprised he completely missed the message.

I rarely visit this forum simply because the Dubya worshippers feel the need to label anyone against them a liberal.
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post #34 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-24-2004, 08:50 AM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Nothing like a little fresh Vonnegut to put things in perspective.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hollywood
I'm not holding my breath. A negative word towards Bush doesn't even have to be spoken for his blinded rage to rear it's ugly head. I'm not the least bit surprised he completely missed the message.

I rarely visit this forum simply because the Dubya worshippers feel the need to label anyone against them a liberal.
Blah, blah, blah.


There goes the skunk, calling the dog stinky...you're so above this forum, due to labling, but what did you do? Bush worshippers?

The message was nothing more than America and Bush suck.

color=#606060]
Quote:
"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
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post #35 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-24-2004, 02:52 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nothing like a little fresh Vonnegut to put things in perspective.

Quote:
Originally posted by HookEm
Blah, blah, blah.


There goes the skunk, calling the dog stinky...you're so above this forum, due to labling, but what did you do? Bush worshippers?

The message was nothing more than America and Bush suck.
He didn't say anything about America sucking, or Bush for that matter. Why the piss is it that everytime someone criticizes the president, they're labeled unpatriotic and anti-American? It is our patriotic duty to be critical of the president, so said Theodore Roosevelt.


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post #36 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-24-2004, 04:24 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nothing like a little fresh Vonnegut to put things in perspective.

Again.....

he refers to the Bible as "great literature about what a bummer it is to be a human being."


Quote:
But I know now that there is not a chance in hell of America’s becoming humane and reasonable
Hmmm....nah, that doesn't sound like typical "America sucks" rhetoric. Nope. Not at all.


Quote:
As long as there is a soul in prison, I am not free.
Oh no...somebody call the WAHHHHHmbulance. Maybe he should figure out how to stop all crime in America?

after references to Biblical quotes:
Quote:
Not exactly planks in a Republican platform. Not exactly Donald Rumsfeld
or Dick Cheney stuff.
The same crap spewed out at www.democraticunderground.com , pretty much.

Quote:
For some reason, the most vocal Christians among us never mention the Beatitudes. But, often with tears in their eyes, they demand that the Ten Commandments be posted in public buildings.
Wow....there's some innovative thought! Have I heard THAT before..oh wait, only 10,000 other times.....

Quote:
So let’s give another big tax cut to the super-rich. That’ll teach bin Laden a lesson he won’t soon forget. Hail to the Chief.
I thoguht that was Dean? Or KErry? Or KEnnedy? Or Daschle?

Quote:
That chief and his cohorts have as little to do with Democracy as the Europeans had to do with Christianity. We the people have absolutely no say in whatever they choose to do next. In case you haven’t noticed, they’ve already cleaned out the treasury, passing it out to pals in the war and national security rackets, leaving your generation and the next one
with a perfectly enormous debt that you’ll be asked to repay.
Again, where has this been said? The sky is falling, the sky falling.

Quote:
And my car back then, a Studebaker, as I recall, was powered, as are almost all means of transportation and other machinery today, and electric power plants and furnaces, by the most abused and addictive and destructive drugs of all: fossil fuels.

And like so many addicts about to face cold turkey, our leaders are now committing violent crimes to get what little is left of what we’re hooked on.
Now, how is the above not just a regurgitation of liberal talking points?? ALL of it.
If Brittney Spears takes a shit in a toilet and doesnt flush, its still just shit...it might have came out of a spectacualr ass....but when broken down, it's just a pile of shit.


Quote:
Originally posted by That_Is_My_El_Camino
He didn't say anything about America sucking, or Bush for that matter. Why the piss is it that everytime someone criticizes the president, they're labeled unpatriotic and anti-American? It is our patriotic duty to be critical of the president, so said Theodore Roosevelt.

color=#606060]
Quote:
"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
Quote:
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post #37 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-24-2004, 05:55 PM
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Do you think that there is NOTHING wrong with our nation? Everything's just peachy? What's wrong with saying there is something wrong with our nation, with our world, with us? Nobody is perfect. The only perfect one was crucified for being too perfect.


Quote:
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post #38 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-24-2004, 06:45 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nothing like a little fresh Vonnegut to put things in perspective.

Quote:
Originally posted by HookEm
Again.....

he refers to the Bible as "great literature about what a bummer it is to be a human being."




Hmmm....nah, that doesn't sound like typical "America sucks" rhetoric. Nope. Not at all.




Oh no...somebody call the WAHHHHHmbulance. Maybe he should figure out how to stop all crime in America?

after references to Biblical quotes:

The same crap spewed out at www.democraticunderground.com , pretty much.


Wow....there's some innovative thought! Have I heard THAT before..oh wait, only 10,000 other times.....

I thoguht that was Dean? Or KErry? Or KEnnedy? Or Daschle?


Again, where has this been said? The sky is falling, the sky falling.



Now, how is the above not just a regurgitation of liberal talking points?? ALL of it.
If Brittney Spears takes a shit in a toilet and doesnt flush, its still just shit...it might have came out of a spectacualr ass....but when broken down, it's just a pile of shit.
You really have no clue....
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post #39 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-24-2004, 07:09 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nothing like a little fresh Vonnegut to put things in perspective.

Wow...that's a GREAT way to address the issues brought forth, by attacking the messenger, because you disagree with my thoughts on it.....
The crap he put forward...eloquent crap, but still crap...is just a reitteration of typical leftist talking points.


Quote:
Originally posted by Hollywood
You really have no clue....

color=#606060]
Quote:
"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
Quote:
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post #40 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-24-2004, 08:30 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nothing like a little fresh Vonnegut to put things in perspectiv

Quote:
Originally posted by HookEm
Wow...that's a GREAT way to address the issues brought forth, by attacking the messenger, because you disagree with my thoughts on it.....
The crap he put forward...eloquent crap, but still crap...is just a reitteration of typical leftist talking points.
And all your arguments are typical reiterations of their respective conservative counters. So what?


Quote:
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post #41 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-24-2004, 09:05 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nothing like a little fresh Vonnegut to put things in perspe

Quote:
Originally posted by That_Is_My_El_Camino
And all your arguments are typical reiterations of their respective conservative counters. So what?

It would be like yo usaying:

I support abortions, gay marriage, and socialism because blah blah blah, and me respondign with "you are clueless."

Weren't you one of the one's bitching about personal attacks, but now, you're defending them?



color=#606060]
Quote:
"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
Quote:
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post #42 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-24-2004, 09:23 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nothing like a little fresh Vonnegut to put things in pe

Quote:
Originally posted by HookEm
It would be like yo usaying:

I support abortions, gay marriage, and socialism because blah blah blah, and me respondign with "you are clueless."

Weren't you one of the one's bitching about personal attacks, but now, you're defending them?


No, I can't recall that I was. Maybe I was. I don't know. I really don't give a shit (I'm not running for public office, but if I were, I'd probably be more careful of what I said and did).
For the record, I support none of those, but I don't oppose them either. I really don't give a shit. If some gay people want to get married, I don't see how it is any of my business or affects me. If a pregnant woman wants to get an abortion, I don't see how it is any of my business or affects me. And socialism: I just want a government where the working class is more than a toy for the rich and powerful.


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post #43 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-24-2004, 09:28 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nothing like a little fresh Vonnegut to put things i

hmmmm...a 14 yr old girl in minetonka, Michigan being molested by her father doesnt affect you.

A drunk runs over and kills 7 kids, in age from 4-12 in omaha, Neb......doesnt affect you.



See the problem w/ that line of thought?


Quote:
Originally posted by That_Is_My_El_Camino
No, I can't recall that I was. Maybe I was. I don't know. I really don't give a shit (I'm not running for public office, but if I were, I'd probably be more careful of what I said and did).
For the record, I support none of those, but I don't oppose them either. I really don't give a shit. If some gay people want to get married, I don't see how it is any of my business or affects me. If a pregnant woman wants to get an abortion, I don't see how it is any of my business or affects me. And socialism: I just want a government where the working class is more than a toy for the rich and powerful.

color=#606060]
Quote:
"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
Quote:
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post #44 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-24-2004, 09:36 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Nothing like a little fresh Vonnegut to put things in perspective.

Quote:
Originally posted by tex
One day, you'll be able to make decisions for yourself, realize how pathetic your life has been, and hopefully end it before voicing any more opinions. Until then, we'll just ignore you.
Perhaps he is the one with clarity of thought and you are the one who has lead a misguided existence....

"I have taken more out of alcohol than it has taken out of me."

"If not, by age 20, you are a liberal, then you have no heart. If not, by age 30, you are a conservative, then you have no brain.
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post #45 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-25-2004, 12:06 AM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nothing like a little fresh Vonnegut to put thin

Quote:
Originally posted by HookEm
hmmmm...a 14 yr old girl in minetonka, Michigan being molested by her father doesnt affect you.

A drunk runs over and kills 7 kids, in age from 4-12 in omaha, Neb......doesnt affect you.



See the problem w/ that line of thought?
Gay marriage is child molestation?
Abortion is a drunk driver killing kids?

You see the problem with that line of thought?


Quote:
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post #46 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-25-2004, 12:10 AM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nothing like a little fresh Vonnegut to put

No..the two incidents don't touch your life, and that was a "pass" by the logic you laid out previously, no?

OR did I misunderstand?


Quote:
Originally posted by That_Is_My_El_Camino
Gay marriage is child molestation?
Abortion is a drunk driver killing kids?

You see the problem with that line of thought?

color=#606060]
Quote:
"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
Quote:
Mike Bickle

[



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post #47 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-25-2004, 12:13 AM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nothing like a little fresh Vonnegut to

Quote:
Originally posted by HookEm
No..the two incidents don't touch your life, and that was a "pass" by the logic you laid out previously, no?

OR did I misunderstand?
I said gay marriage and abortion don't touch my life. Those two incidents are tragic and saddening.


Quote:
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post #48 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-25-2004, 12:21 AM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nothing like a little fresh Vonnegut

Quote:
Originally posted by That_Is_My_El_Camino
I said gay marriage and abortion don't touch my life. Those two incidents are tragic and saddening.

I hear ya..dont agree w/ ya, but I hear ya.


I'm suddenly in a mood for donuts, and I live in BFE, so....donut time....
Later...

color=#606060]
Quote:
"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
Quote:
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[



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post #49 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-25-2004, 12:39 AM
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Don't hit a curb.


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post #50 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-25-2004, 08:02 AM
 
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For contrast, read Robert A. Heinlein's essays on government and laws.
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