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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-10-2004, 05:28 PM Thread Starter
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Prisoner abuse

When we uncover evidence of the USA throwing prisoners off 70 story buildings or burning them alive, I'll get upset, till then, their getting lots less than they gave us. If those abuses shown saved even one solder, it's worth it. Compare those abused to what Saddam did to them.

1. Hanging in the public places
2. Charging the families the price of the bullets used to kill their beloved ones.
3. Using the rat poison to kill the detainees.
4. Undercover killings by poisoning food or drink. It happened to many highly educated people e.g. university lecturers etc.
5. He killed his cousin Dr Raji Tikriti after Kuwait invasion by putting him in a cage with 25 starved dogs. The dogs attacked Raji Tikriti in front of Saddam ministers. After few minutes Raji was bones with out meat!
6. They could arrest up to the 6th degree relatives of the detained person for no reason but to make him confess by torturing and humiliating them in front of him.
7. Smuggling escaped people from outside Iraq and killing them. 8. Horror cells by using different ways to horrify the prisoner.
9. Teeth pulling
10. Immersion of the person in a tank filled with strong acid until he or she dissolves away
11. Burning body by Cigarettes
12. Hanging body from the arms which are tied to the back and hanging a heavy stone in the penis and the testes which could be increased until he confesses.
13. Udy and Qusay Saddam and Some other relatives like the brothers of Sajeda Telfah Saddam's wife used to go to Abo Ghareeb Prison and select haphazardly a group from the prisoners and execute them while laughing in front of the others
14. Decapitating children in front of their mothers
15. Putting children in a sac with starved cats.
16. The whole of Iraq turned into a big prison. No one was allowed to travel outside the country before an extensive evaluation by the security police about him and his family.
17. If you are a 3rd person among 3 people and the other 2 criticize the regime even indirectly you will be executed with them even if you were not involved in the talk but merely kept silent about it i.e. it is an executable crime not to report such conversations.

Last edited by jyro; 05-10-2004 at 05:48 PM.
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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-10-2004, 06:23 PM
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Re: Prisoner abuse

Quote:
Originally posted by jyro
When we uncover evidence of the USA throwing prisoners off 70 story buildings or burning them alive, I'll get upset, till then, their getting lots less than they gave us. If those abuses shown saved even one solder, it's worth it. Compare those abused to what Saddam did to them.

1. Hanging in the public places
2. Charging the families the price of the bullets used to kill their beloved ones.
3. Using the rat poison to kill the detainees.
4. Undercover killings by poisoning food or drink. It happened to many highly educated people e.g. university lecturers etc.
5. He killed his cousin Dr Raji Tikriti after Kuwait invasion by putting him in a cage with 25 starved dogs. The dogs attacked Raji Tikriti in front of Saddam ministers. After few minutes Raji was bones with out meat!
6. They could arrest up to the 6th degree relatives of the detained person for no reason but to make him confess by torturing and humiliating them in front of him.
7. Smuggling escaped people from outside Iraq and killing them. 8. Horror cells by using different ways to horrify the prisoner.
9. Teeth pulling
10. Immersion of the person in a tank filled with strong acid until he or she dissolves away
11. Burning body by Cigarettes
12. Hanging body from the arms which are tied to the back and hanging a heavy stone in the penis and the testes which could be increased until he confesses.
13. Udy and Qusay Saddam and Some other relatives like the brothers of Sajeda Telfah Saddam's wife used to go to Abo Ghareeb Prison and select haphazardly a group from the prisoners and execute them while laughing in front of the others
14. Decapitating children in front of their mothers
15. Putting children in a sac with starved cats.
16. The whole of Iraq turned into a big prison. No one was allowed to travel outside the country before an extensive evaluation by the security police about him and his family.
17. If you are a 3rd person among 3 people and the other 2 criticize the regime even indirectly you will be executed with them even if you were not involved in the talk but merely kept silent about it i.e. it is an executable crime not to report such conversations.
I look at it differently, this isn't about Sadam and what he did. We are America we set the example, we are supposed to be fair and impartial. I to feel in some ways screw them let them have a taste. I then come back to the idea that we are trying to affect change and implement new policies. If they feel we are no better than the former Regime what good will come of that.
If anything this prisoner abuse scandal will help fuel the anti-US war machine already operating in the region, turning those were on the fence against us. This will lead to more of our service members being killed and increasing the size of the current radical opposition forces. I see no good in that what so ever. It has placed a stain on our country, made us look bad, it has made the President apologize for things he had no control over. Heck I am a democrat I feel Rumsfeld and Bush are taking fire on this one and have no real fault in the matter. The thousands of soldiers over there doing their duty have done nothing wrong but now they too carry that burden placed on them by an ill-mannered few.So what possible good aside from revenge has come from this?
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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-10-2004, 08:02 PM
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LMAO.

Don't stand up for the stupid fucks. They were just as bad as the person they took out of power.

Gee, Wally, they had it much worse when Sadam was in power.

They created a black eye for everyone over there serving.
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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-10-2004, 08:46 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, that's kinda like my dad

When I was 9 years old I stole a pen from Skillerns, when my dad found out, he said in his eyes it was the same as murdering someone since both were against the law, he didn't talk to me for a month. I still don't agree.
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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-11-2004, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
LMAO.

Don't stand up for the stupid fucks. They were just as bad as the person they took out of power.

Gee, Wally, they had it much worse when Sadam was in power.

They created a black eye for everyone over there serving.
Did you somehow become confused and think I was defending the idiots that abused the Iraqi's?
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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-11-2004, 12:34 AM
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uh......you did say
Quote:
I to feel in some ways screw them let them have a taste

Quote:
Originally posted by Pro Trash
Did you somehow become confused and think I was defending the idiots that abused the Iraqi's?

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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-11-2004, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HookEm
uh......you did say
My quote was stated below as such and not be broken down into pieces so you can try to make it look as though I said something then ended there. Get it all out or leave it alone your reaching really far with that one.

"I look at it differently, this isn't about Sadam and what he did. We are America we set the example, we are supposed to be fair and impartial. I to feel in some ways screw them let them have a taste. I then come back to the idea that we are trying to affect change and implement new policies. If they feel we are no better than the former Regime what good will come of that".
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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-11-2004, 12:41 AM
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And yet, you still wonder why people think yo uare defending thsi practice?



Quote:
Originally posted by Pro Trash
My quote was stated below as such and not be broken down into pieces so you can try to make it look as though I said something then ended there. Get it all out or leave it alone your reaching really far with that one.

"I look at it differently, this isn't about Sadam and what he did. We are America we set the example, we are supposed to be fair and impartial. I to feel in some ways screw them let them have a taste. I then come back to the idea that we are trying to affect change and implement new policies. If they feel we are no better than the former Regime what good will come of that".
:

color=#606060]
Quote:
"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
Quote:
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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-11-2004, 12:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HookEm
And yet, you still wonder why people think yo uare defending thsi practice?



:
My statement means we should lead by example, not treat the prisoners poorly, not blame the administration for this but the individuals who took part, etc
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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-11-2004, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pro Trash
Did you somehow become confused and think I was defending the idiots that abused the Iraqi's?
Do you think you are important enough to reply to? I was replying to the original poster.
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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-11-2004, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
Do you think you are important enough to reply to? I was replying to the original poster.
My apologies
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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-11-2004, 09:47 AM
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Two wrongs don't make a right, that's for damn sure. But, with al jazeera flat out lying everytime it gets a chance, I'm not real sure how much damage this will really do to our reputation over there. I don't see how it could get any worse.

What pisses me off to no end is that none of these "outraged" people were outraged when Saddam Hussein was doing the same thing, both to his own people and to our POWs that he had during the first war.
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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-11-2004, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by AL P
Two wrongs don't make a right, that's for damn sure. But, with al jazeera flat out lying everytime it gets a chance, I'm not real sure how much damage this will really do to our reputation over there. I don't see how it could get any worse.

What pisses me off to no end is that none of these "outraged" people were outraged when Saddam Hussein was doing the same thing, both to his own people and to our POWs that he had during the first war.
I'm not outraged by it all just disappointed. I knew Sadam was amajor league spawn of satan. I just thought our people would be a little more in control of their faculities. Even though these acts were only committed by a small number, it makes our troops a target of undue blame. I read on yahoo about two hours ago that an american prisoner held over there who is from Philidelphia was beheaded in retaliation for the prison abuse.
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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-11-2004, 02:18 PM
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ok i've heard breifly about this so called abuse but can someone go into detail for me exactly what they are considering abuse..Only time i've been able to watch to some tv or read it's been over pictures where they have dogs bark at the prisoners and or them being naked and our soliders smiling with a gun to there head..

I'll make my comment after someone can identify the "abuse"

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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-11-2004, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DbonezNY
ok i've heard breifly about this so called abuse but can someone go into detail for me exactly what they are considering abuse..Only time i've been able to watch to some tv or read it's been over pictures where they have dogs bark at the prisoners and or them being naked and our soliders smiling with a gun to there head..

I'll make my comment after someone can identify the "abuse"
There is a picture of one guy standing with a hood over his head tied to a jail cell. He is naked and the dogs are near him. I am not sure about your back ground but I have went through a school called S.E.R.E. (Survival, Escape, Resistance, and Evasion)while on active duty. We were taught the worst aspect of being a prisoner under war time conditions is the phsychological aspects. The fact any dog would be near me when my johnson is out and unprotected is bad enough. All that accompanied with the fact it really violated their religious beliefs is abuse of the system and those inmates. These people acted without orders and brought undue shame on their peers that is unfair. The regular soldier over there is doing his/her job not trying to harrass or kill the innocent.
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post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-12-2004, 03:48 AM
 
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who's to say they weren't ordered to do so? every major country in the world uses PSYOPS and other such tactics to inflict maximum psychological influence in the quickest time.

quick example.. our own country (police) does the old, turn on the A/C full blast, good cop bad cop routine during in-house investigations. why? because it is simplistically effective.

we all know there are the "silent orders". ie go kick joes ass in his room instead of Article-15's. or smoking someone until they are a borderline heat casualty to get the point through off the record. i don't blame the soldiers one bit regarding these "abuses". it's the nature of the investigative beast.

to get timely info from an enemy who is unwilly to give up OPSEC,you gotta bend the rules. and for every situation like this there has to be a "Fall Guy". conviently they found theirs in the photos.

in closing, by all means, if and when i ever become a POW, stack me butt ass naked, dog collar and all, on top of all creation, as long as i come home alive. humiliation would be the least of my concern.




*take grammatical correctness, context, content, etc. into consideration as i am shit-housed at time of posting go cowboys!!
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post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-12-2004, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 11B2V_Mike
who's to say they weren't ordered to do so? every major country in the world uses PSYOPS and other such tactics to inflict maximum psychological influence in the quickest time.

quick example.. our own country (police) does the old, turn on the A/C full blast, good cop bad cop routine during in-house investigations. why? because it is simplistically effective.

we all know there are the "silent orders". ie go kick joes ass in his room instead of Article-15's. or smoking someone until they are a borderline heat casualty to get the point through off the record. i don't blame the soldiers one bit regarding these "abuses". it's the nature of the investigative beast.

to get timely info from an enemy who is unwilly to give up OPSEC,you gotta bend the rules. and for every situation like this there has to be a "Fall Guy". conviently they found theirs in the photos.

in closing, by all means, if and when i ever become a POW, stack me butt ass naked, dog collar and all, on top of all creation, as long as i come home alive. humiliation would be the least of my concern.






*take grammatical correctness, context, content, etc. into consideration as i am shit-housed at time of posting go cowboys!!
Mike I can agree with most of what you posted for it is the real world scenario we are taught. I just can't figure out for the life of me why these dumb bastards would take pictures? Man you and I both know you never leave behind any eqipment or evidence, WTH?
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post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-12-2004, 02:01 PM
 
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very true about the leaving the evidence thing, that's what thermites are for.

i was always told "if you are gonna do something stupid, DON'T GET CAUGHT!!"
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post #19 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-12-2004, 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by 11B2V_Mike
very true about the leaving the evidence thing, that's what thermites are for.

i was always told "if you are gonna do something stupid, DON'T GET CAUGHT!!"
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post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-13-2004, 03:00 PM
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thats what they deserve
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post #21 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-02-2004, 02:17 PM
 
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thats what they deserve
lol
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post #22 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-04-2004, 12:51 PM
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torture is good. I am all for attaching a car battery to Habib's balls if it will make him talkie and give up his fellow soldiers. It is wrong to torture civilians, but soldiers are fare game. Bunny fucking tree huggers will never understand this because they don't have the balls to sign up, pick up a rifle, and defend what they believe in. I will happily torture numerous amounts of those fucking ragheads with an evil smile on my face. You may say, "well that makes you no better them then". So be it. I need info. so that I may more proficiently kill his soldiering friends.
Let's not forget 9-11 and in the words of Ev Barrett, "Fuck the fucking fuckers before they fuck you." Call me what you will, bunny fuckers!
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post #23 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-04-2004, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by can'tdrive55
torture is good. I am all for attaching a car battery to Habib's balls if it will make him talkie and give up his fellow soldiers. It is wrong to torture civilians, but soldiers are fare game. Bunny fucking tree huggers will never understand this because they don't have the balls to sign up, pick up a rifle, and defend what they believe in. I will happily torture numerous amounts of those fucking ragheads with an evil smile on my face. You may say, "well that makes you no better them then". So be it. I need info. so that I may more proficiently kill his soldiering friends.
Let's not forget 9-11 and in the words of Ev Barrett, "Fuck the fucking fuckers before they fuck you." Call me what you will, bunny fuckers!
Your statement just sent us back to the stone age...

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post #24 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-04-2004, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by can'tdrive55
torture is good. I am all for attaching a car battery to Habib's balls if it will make him talkie and give up his fellow soldiers. It is wrong to torture civilians, but soldiers are fare game. Bunny fucking tree huggers will never understand this because they don't have the balls to sign up, pick up a rifle, and defend what they believe in. I will happily torture numerous amounts of those fucking ragheads with an evil smile on my face. You may say, "well that makes you no better them then". So be it. I need info. so that I may more proficiently kill his soldiering friends.
Let's not forget 9-11 and in the words of Ev Barrett, "Fuck the fucking fuckers before they fuck you." Call me what you will, bunny fuckers!


Wow. You're a real asshole.
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post #25 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-05-2004, 01:24 AM
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Re: Prisoner abuse

Quote:
Originally posted by jyro
When we uncover evidence of the USA throwing prisoners off 70 story buildings or burning them alive, I'll get upset, till then, their getting lots less than they gave us. If those abuses shown saved even one solder, it's worth it. Compare those abused to what Saddam did to them.

1. Hanging in the public places
2. Charging the families the price of the bullets used to kill their beloved ones.
3. Using the rat poison to kill the detainees.
4. Undercover killings by poisoning food or drink. It happened to many highly educated people e.g. university lecturers etc.
5. He killed his cousin Dr Raji Tikriti after Kuwait invasion by putting him in a cage with 25 starved dogs. The dogs attacked Raji Tikriti in front of Saddam ministers. After few minutes Raji was bones with out meat!
6. They could arrest up to the 6th degree relatives of the detained person for no reason but to make him confess by torturing and humiliating them in front of him.
7. Smuggling escaped people from outside Iraq and killing them. 8. Horror cells by using different ways to horrify the prisoner.
9. Teeth pulling
10. Immersion of the person in a tank filled with strong acid until he or she dissolves away
11. Burning body by Cigarettes
12. Hanging body from the arms which are tied to the back and hanging a heavy stone in the penis and the testes which could be increased until he confesses.
13. Udy and Qusay Saddam and Some other relatives like the brothers of Sajeda Telfah Saddam's wife used to go to Abo Ghareeb Prison and select haphazardly a group from the prisoners and execute them while laughing in front of the others
14. Decapitating children in front of their mothers
15. Putting children in a sac with starved cats.
16. The whole of Iraq turned into a big prison. No one was allowed to travel outside the country before an extensive evaluation by the security police about him and his family.
17. If you are a 3rd person among 3 people and the other 2 criticize the regime even indirectly you will be executed with them even if you were not involved in the talk but merely kept silent about it i.e. it is an executable crime not to report such conversations.
Sounds like a new vidio game for the kiddies!

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post #26 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-08-2004, 02:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by can'tdrive55
torture is good. I am all for attaching a car battery to Habib's balls if it will make him talkie and give up his fellow soldiers. It is wrong to torture civilians, but soldiers are fare game. Bunny fucking tree huggers will never understand this because they don't have the balls to sign up, pick up a rifle, and defend what they believe in. I will happily torture numerous amounts of those fucking ragheads with an evil smile on my face. You may say, "well that makes you no better them then". So be it. I need info. so that I may more proficiently kill his soldiering friends.
Let's not forget 9-11 and in the words of Ev Barrett, "Fuck the fucking fuckers before they fuck you." Call me what you will, bunny fuckers!
I am with you.
If one of those ass holes had one of my comrads... I'd break his face.
Or we could do what the rest of the weaklings on the site want. Ask the people who cut off Nic Bergs head to politely tell up where all the other inocent civilians are. Yea right!!
Torture and humiliation work.
Should they be aired for us to watch, probabaly not. Most of America couldn't handle it. I say kill everyone of those American killing/torturing mother fuckers. They are evil, and think there is nothing wrong with killing Americans.

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post #27 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-08-2004, 12:20 PM
 
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Prisoner abuse

We (The United States) need to use whatever tools necessary to safeguard our country and our troops. How can you expect the USA to fight a kinder gentler war against an enemy that uses anything at their disposal to inflict casualties. Captures and tortures/murders the enemy. Kidnaps and beheads people. Ambushes and burns those safeguarding food shipments. War is a violent business. If we fought WW2 like we fight today, Lowenbrau and Hienekin would not be an imported beer. You win a war by breaking the will of the enemy and their population. How did we defeat the Nazi's, we bombed them mercilessly killing military and civilians. You do not step up to the task if you are not going to do it right. I want America to win and if you do too, then quit your whining about the prisoner being treated like enemy combatants. They are not uniformed soldiers and therefore are not afforded the protection under the Geneva Convention. If you know your history those caught fighting in civilian clothes (spies and insurgents) are usually given a summary execution. Terrorists want to use our weaknesses against us and we have to step up to the plate and knock them out of the park.. I hope we get this war over with quickly but I don't count on it. The people of the middle east are experts at fighting for generations. They have been fighting for thousands of years so we might as well settle in for a long battle.
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post #28 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-08-2004, 12:31 PM
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Re: Prisoner abuse

Quote:
Originally posted by Silver '03 GT
We (The United States) need to use whatever tools necessary to safeguard our country and our troops. How can you expect the USA to fight a kinder gentler war against an enemy that uses anything at their disposal to inflict casualties. Captures and tortures/murders the enemy. Kidnaps and beheads people. Ambushes and burns those safeguarding food shipments. War is a violent business. If we fought WW2 like we fight today, Lowenbrau and Hienekin would not be an imported beer. You win a war by breaking the will of the enemy and their population. How did we defeat the Nazi's, we bombed them mercilessly killing military and civilians. You do not step up to the task if you are not going to do it right. I want America to win and if you do too, then quit your whining about the prisoner being treated like enemy combatants. They are not uniformed soldiers and therefore are not afforded the protection under the Geneva Convention. If you know your history those caught fighting in civilian clothes (spies and insurgents) are usually given a summary execution. Terrorists want to use our weaknesses against us and we have to step up to the plate and knock them out of the park.. I hope we get this war over with quickly but I don't count on it. The people of the middle east are experts at fighting for generations. They have been fighting for thousands of years so we might as well settle in for a long battle.
Ummm... we've already passed that subject. We're already on to personal attacks amongst board members.
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post #29 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-10-2004, 09:31 AM
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Your statement just sent us back to the stone age...

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post #30 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-10-2004, 09:54 AM
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I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
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post #31 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-12-2004, 01:06 AM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: South of the Red River
Posts: 3,332
Re: Prisoner abuse

Quote:
Originally posted by Silver '03 GT
We (The United States) need to use whatever tools necessary to safeguard our country and our troops. How can you expect the USA to fight a kinder gentler war against an enemy that uses anything at their disposal to inflict casualties. Captures and tortures/murders the enemy. Kidnaps and beheads people. Ambushes and burns those safeguarding food shipments. War is a violent business. If we fought WW2 like we fight today, Lowenbrau and Hienekin would not be an imported beer. You win a war by breaking the will of the enemy and their population. How did we defeat the Nazi's, we bombed them mercilessly killing military and civilians. You do not step up to the task if you are not going to do it right. I want America to win and if you do too, then quit your whining about the prisoner being treated like enemy combatants. They are not uniformed soldiers and therefore are not afforded the protection under the Geneva Convention. If you know your history those caught fighting in civilian clothes (spies and insurgents) are usually given a summary execution. Terrorists want to use our weaknesses against us and we have to step up to the plate and knock them out of the park.. I hope we get this war over with quickly but I don't count on it. The people of the middle east are experts at fighting for generations. They have been fighting for thousands of years so we might as well settle in for a long battle.
No shit and well said!!! I do say that we need to pull out the MOABs make shorter work of it, now that it's started, so that we can focus on a more deadly enemy.
I think the insurgents would shit their pants if our troops started loading onto C5-Galaxies and leaving in a hurry. They could hide behind the women, but not for long. If the women wanted to live, they would figure it out and leave, til the dust settles. If they don't want to live....
BTW- for the sake of history, "they have been fighting for thousands of years so we might as well settle in for a long battle." is how the Cold War ended. The Ruskies hung in there for 10 years until they were out of money and military! That was in Afganistan, where we haven't even scratched the surface yet.

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand!
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