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post #1 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-01-2004, 06:10 PM Thread Starter
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A rebuttal to "The 'Con' in Conservative"

That’s a nice cut and paste Korrupt Kornholer…

http://www.conceptualguerilla.com/blurbs.htm

Unfortunately (for you) it only proves you are even more intellectually bereft than the original author – just mindlessly parroting left speak without really understanding the concepts behind the lies. But I’ll spend a little time dispelling this propaganda.

1. Tax cuts and the resulting budget deficits.

Over 40 years ago an American president suggested that cutting taxes would stimulate the economy and thereby actually increase tax revenues.

"The most direct and significant kind of federal action aiding economic growth is to make possible an increase in private consumption and investment demand -- to cut the fetters which hold back private spending (tax cuts)…

It is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high today and tax revenues are too low... An economy constrained by high tax rates will never produce enough revenue to balance the budget, just as it will never create enough jobs or enough profits."

-John F. Kennedy


Of course Kennedy was right… and so was Reagan. Tax cuts always spur economic growth. I guess it just sounds better when a Democrat says it.

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/cgi-b...2231&printer=1

Some interesting tax statistics…

Federal tax revenues this year are projected to consume 20.5 percent of the economy's output. This is the highest peacetime level of taxation the United States ever has experienced, exceeded only in 1944 at the height of World War II.

The federal government is expected to collect $1.722 trillion from taxes this year, more than $13,500 for every worker in the country. This is nearly 50 percent more than the government took in as recently as 1993 and more than twice the level collected in 1987.

According to the Tax Foundation, taxes at all levels now consume nearly 38 percent of the average dual-income family's income. Medieval serfs, by contrast, had to give the lord of the manor only one-third of their output.

Indeed, this typical family will pay more than $22,500 in taxes to all levels of government. This is more than the family will spend on food, clothing, shelter, and transportation combined.

Conservatives hate “social spending".

That’s right. But let’s lose the euphemisms – the phrase should more accurately state that conservatives hate socialism.

Conservatives lose elections when they talk about undoing it.

Right again… Liberals have been buying votes for years with their social(ism) welfare programs funded through huge transfer payments.

2. Opposition to improvements in wages and working conditions.

Wow Mr. Peabody… let’s fire up the way back machine. Are you trying to infer that modern day conservatives are in favor of slavery, child labor, unlivable wages, etc…?

3. National Health Care System –

The problem with socialized medicine is that it does nothing to address the real problems of the American health care system – waste and high costs.

“America spends more than twice as much per capita on health care as the average for other industrialized nations, but has lower life expectancy than the other industrial nations and much higher infant mortality than the average for the other industrialized nations. We clearly have reached a point where spending more on health care is not as important as other factors.

Studies that look at individual procedures to see which are unnecessary have estimated that 25 percent of our health care spending is wasted, but international comparisons imply that half of this spending is wasted. Yet this waste is happening at a time when many Americans have no insurance coverage at all: those who do have insurance waste an even higher proportion of what they spend, despite attempts to control costs.

The amount we spend on health care soared from 5.1 percent of the GDP in 1960 to 8 percent of the GDP in 1975 to about 14 percent of the GNP today. Yet, by the 1970s, it became clear that spending more on medical care was no longer improving health. Improvements in the usual indicators of public health, such as average life expectancy, slowed and then virtually stopped.”

The liberal concept that somehow a government run program is going to eliminate waste and reduce costs is laughable.
Socialized medicine will only increase costs, reduce the standard of care and eliminate freedom of choice.

4. Education –

“During the 1950s, when spending was modest by today's standards, achievement was gradually improving. It is hard to believe that in 1950, American schools spent only $1,701 per student (in 1995 dollars), compared to $6,993 today. During the 1950s, increased spending was still needed and helped to improve achievement.

During the 1960s and 1970s, spending on education soared. Class size went down dramatically, as the pupil-teacher ratio fell from about 30 in 1960 to about 20 in 1980. Yet scores on the SAT and other standardized tests plummeted during the 1960s and 1970s. In part, this was because the pool of test-takers increased, but it is generally recognized that it was also because of lower school standards and weaker family influence.

Overall, per pupil spending on education today is more than 2.5 times what it was in 1963 (after correcting for inflation). But the students learn less.”

Conservatives understand that throwing money at schools doesn’t engender a thirst for knowledge in a child. The desire to learn must be instilled at home. It is a rare student who, without direction and inspiration from a parent, develops his full potential. But the liberal mindset is such that Uncle Sam should supplant the lackadaisical administration of uncaring parents. Would a reasonable person expect (or want) a government to be a surrogate? A school is not a daycare.

A school and its staff are merely a tool, a resource for learning, and its effective utilization is dependent on the user. Parents are responsible for the end product. You’ve heard the expression: ‘garbage in – garbage out.’ Well if you put a disinterested, disengaged and unruly student in a desk what you get out is a McDonald’s fry boy. It doesn’t matter how new the book he doesn’t read is – he’s not going to learn. But at least in the brave new world envisioned by the left, when he carves penises and pot leafs on his desk he’ll have a shiny new canvas.

It seems clear to me that the disintegration of the nuclear family is responsible for a whole list of ills. Or maybe bad teachers and old school buildings are responsible for teenage pregnancy and drug abuse too?

When the problem is one of personal accountability no amount of money can correct for a dereliction of responsibility.

5. Law and order –

Conservatives, unlike liberals, believe in accountability (see above). People should be held responsible for their actions. Society is not the root cause of crime - criminals are.

6. Family values and the culture war.

Traditionally families have served as the primary agent of enculturation and socialization. In the past, a child’s economic livelihood, training, religious upbringing and moral convictions were centered on the bedrock of home and family. The disintegration of the nuclear family in contemporary America has resulted in a generation of children that have been socialized by the electronic media and public education. And while the popular media has become increasingly violent and distorted; our schools have become, under the liberal banner of nondiscrimination, essentially value-neutral. Public expressions of faith, and the values that they represent, have been removed so as to not offend the hypersensitive segments of our country. There can be little question that the moral blight that plagues this country is seeded in the rejection of traditional Judeo-Christian principles. Liberalism places its faith in Government – not God.

“Humanism is the denial of God and the total affirmation of man. Humanism is really nothing else but Marxism.”

Karl Marx

“The chief enemy of Communism is the Christian clergyman.”

Nicolai Lenin

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

John Adams


The creation of a secular-amoral vacuum is the center plank of the liberal agenda. By destroying the moral fabric of this country, and thereby ultimately destroying traditional American society, liberals seek to create a climate that is ripe for the proliferation of the socialist state. “As men grow farther away from God they become more evil. Government, then, must step in to protect society. In doing so, government becomes at once our protector, our provider and our master.”

“The cycle is then complete. Lost is freedom and independence. Found is slavery and servitude. An all-pervasive, all-powerful, all intrusive government has replaced God. What God was to us government has become. The difference is: where God gives life and liberty - government gives death and bondage.”

Aside from gay marriage and abortion on demand just what are the values that liberals are supporting?

7. Racism and other forms of bigotry –

Liberals created the most insidious form of racism yet devised - welfare. Thus it is in the pathology of Black America that we see the true impact of leftist ideology.

"We'll have 'em eating out of our hands forever."
- President Johnson


The legacy of the Great Society programs is the creation of a permanent underclass and, more importantly, a perpetual voting block lorded over by black race-baiters and their fawning Democrat lackeys. Using the cry of racism as a whip, these masters of the ‘New Plantation’ strive to create and control successive generations of black voters. Blacks who erringly think for themselves and challenge this status-quo are labeled as “Uncle Tom’s”, “sell-outs” or (perhaps most tellingly) “acting white”. Individuality in the black collective is unacceptable.

Liberals that argue for the proliferation of the welfare state and race based preferences point to years of systemic racism and discrimination as a moral justification. The necessity for these programs is proven, they say, by the present day state of Black America. Surely the ‘vestiges of slavery’ are responsible for the family instability, high crime, welfare dependency and poor academic achievement that are epidemic.

But consider these historical facts… From 1890 to 1940, blacks had a marriage rate slightly higher than whites and a comparable rate of two-parent families. In 1940 illegitimacy among blacks was 19 percent. In 1960 illegitimacy was 22 percent. In a study conducted by Herbert G. Gutman ("The Black Family in Slavery and Freedom, 1750-1925") it was determined that , in Harlem between 1905 and 1925, only 3 percent of all families were headed by a woman under 30, and 85 percent of black children lived in two-parent families.

Why are these numbers important? A one-parent family is six times more likely to be poor than the two-parent family. 60% of children with unmarried mothers are likely to score in the lower half of their class and 25% are likely to have behavioral or learning problems. 70% of the young offenders in our criminal justice system today come from single-parent households.

What are the results of President Johnson’s ‘War on Poverty’? Today black illegitimacy is 70 percent. Only 36 percent of black children live in two-parent families. One of every three black males (20-29) is involved in the penal system (this is projected to be two of every three black males by 2020). 40 percent of black males are marginally illiterate. One of every 12 black males in Washington, D.C. is a victim of homicide.

Wouldn’t it stand to reason that if slavery and institutionalized racism are the roots of black disenfranchisement - that the negative societal reaction of blacks to those evils would have been more prominent in the generations immediately following slavery and during the era of Jim Crow? How can Liberals explain the past strength of black families in a time of lynching and segregation in juxtaposition to the current failures? Yet Liberals would have us continue to believe that 40 years after the enacting of Civil Rights reforms and after $7 trillion dollars spent on the ‘Great Society’ programs that the foundation of Black America is in worse shape NOW because of the ‘vestiges of slavery’.

Welfare has sponsored and encouraged illegitimacy, immorality and the destruction of the black family.

"Destroy the family, and the society will collapse."

Lenin


Liberals are incapable of admitting the painful truth: the inability of the welfare state to effectively change society for the better. The failure of present day Black America has nothing to do with race or (in large) racism… and everything to do with the nature of government – and how the increasingly liberal face of government has undermined the family and the individual.

“Since the social victim has been oppressed by society, he comes to feel that his individual life will be improved more by changes in society than by his own initiative. Without realizing it, he makes society rather than himself the agent of change. The power he finds in his victimization may lead him to collective action against society, but it also encourages passivity within the sphere of his personal life…
To have more college-educated minorities, we don't need to work at instilling the principle of intellectual excellence, or at raising the standards in inner-city schools, or at making minority neighborhoods safe for children. (In fact, we allow license and lowered standards to prevail in these areas.) And we don't need to engage our ``client population'' personally. A group preference in college admissions is a simple and impersonal intervention by which we can manufacture a wonderfully 'diverse campus' even when black students average three hundred SAT points below whites and Asians, as has been the case at the University of California at Berkeley.”

Shelby Steele

“I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”

Benjamin Franklin, in "The Encouragement of Idleness," 1766

“The remedy for poverty is not in the material resources of the rich, but in the moral resources of the poor. These, which are lulled and deadened by money-gifts, can be raised and strengthened only by personal influence, sympathy, charity. Money gifts save the poor man who gets them, but give longer life to pauperism in the country.”

Lord Acton


8. Right to bear arms.


Liberals have few qualms about trampling the constitution and there is no greater evidence of that sin than their fanatical desire to unarm the American people. But for what purpose….?

"Cause the registration of all firearms on some pretext, with the view of confiscating them and leaving the population defenseless."

- Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

"The most foolish mistake we could possible make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms ..."

- Adolph Hitler, Fuehrer of Nazi Germany

"The measures adopted to restore public order are: First of all, the elimination of the so-called subversive elements. [...] They were elements of disorder and subversion. On the morrow of each conflict I gave the categorical order to confiscate the largest possible number of weapons of every sort and kind. This confiscation, which continues with the utmost energy, has given satisfactory results."

- Prime Minister Benito Mussolini before the Italian Senate, June 8, 1923

"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence. From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."

- George Washington, First President of the United States in a speech to Congress, January 7, 1790

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."

- Thomas Jefferson, Author of the Declaration of Independence, 3rd President of the United States


In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, approximately 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. In 1928, Germany established gun control. From 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, the mentally ill, and others, who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. In 1935, China established gun control. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents were unable to defend themselves and were rounded up and exterminated. In 1964, Guatemala established gun control. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. In 1970, Uganda established gun control. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. In 1956, Cambodia established gun control. From 1975 to1977, one million "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

http://www.sneadsferry.com/our_view/gun_control.htm

9. War on drugs.

I, like most conservatives, don’t care what you liberals are smoking (and not inhaling).

10. Pro-oil energy policies-

Like it our not oil is the life blood of our economy and as yet there is no viable technology that is ready to replace it. Fuel cells? A letter to the editors of CAR & DRIVER makes an interesting point that must have escaped you:

“We burn fossil fuel in a power plant somewhere and convert at some relatively inefficient rate into electricity. We then transmit that electricity through a series of step-up transformers, power lines, and step down transformers with a power loss at each stage. We then convert the AC current to DC (with more power loss) to hydrolyze water into hydrogen and oxygen (more power loss). We then compress the hydrogen (more power necessary) into containers and transport it (in diesel powered trucks) to the fuel cell automobile… I’ll bet that a serious study would reveal that this fuel cell car runs along at an efficiency rate of, at best, a few percent.”

Of course the fact that you are looking to JIMMY CARTER for advice speaks to the depth of thought that you have applied to this topic.

And candidate Kerry’s draconian proposals of a 35 MPG CAFÉ standard and a $.50 hike in the gas tax are delusional non starters - unless you’re a granola crunching, treehugging leftist that rides a bike from the commune to the free clinic for your AZT treatments.

11. The invasion of Iraq and the “Bush Doctrine”-

I’ve addressed this before and don’t feel a need to repeat myself ad-nauseam every time some dumbfuck who’s flunking his way through a political science course taught by an America hating, Chomsky quoting, leftist troglodyte cuts and pastes some liberal dribble from his favorite hate site.

But when you can come up with something original feel free to try again.

And for the rest of you liberals:

There is no part of conservatism that says you should be a dispassionate observer of your fellow man. If Americans as a people are truly concerned about an issue – then they have a right, indeed a duty, to affect a remedy. Conservatives merely recognize that the mechanizations of the federal government are ill suited to a role best served by family, friends, the church, charitable organizations and the concerned individuals of the local community.

So if in fact you are concerned about the homeless, the plight of the inner city youths, our under performing school system, etc…. PLEASE feel free to volunteer, to give to charity, to get off your lazy asses and do something other than bitch on the internet about ways to spend my tax dollars on your ideal of a socialist Utopia.

“In fact, charity is an axiom of conservatism. Charity is one of the great responsibilities of freedom. But, in order for us to be responsible-and therefore free - that responsibility must be personal. There is no virtue in compulsory government charity, and there is no virtue in advocating it. A politician who portrays himself as 'caring' and 'sensitive' because he wants to expand the government's charitable programs is merely saying that he's willing to try to do good with other people's money. Well, who isn't?”

P.J. O'Rourke
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post #2 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-01-2004, 06:31 PM
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Oh god, somebody just got OWNED!

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post #3 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-01-2004, 09:58 PM Thread Starter
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Thumbs down

Yeah… I owned Kornholer so hard that pusspuss decided to change sides and become 'broncopower'.
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post #4 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-01-2004, 10:05 PM
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Yeah… I owned Kornholer so hard that pusspuss decided to change sides and become 'broncopower'.
lol, whatever it takes

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post #5 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-02-2004, 12:51 AM
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Yeah… I owned Kornholer so hard that pusspuss decided to change sides and become 'broncopower'.
Hahaha damn! I hadn't even noticed but broncopower is definitely Korrupt Konservatives! Haha! Good catch!
post #6 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-02-2004, 09:10 PM
 
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Of course he cut and pasted that shit. Who would sit around and type for an hour just so ten of us could read it??? Nice work sherlock holmes.
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post #7 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-03-2004, 01:43 PM
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Of course he cut and pasted that shit. Who would sit around and type for an hour just so ten of us could read it??? Nice work sherlock holmes.
LMAO!! Maybe political science major??

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post #8 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-03-2004, 05:07 PM Thread Starter
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Of course he cut and pasted that shit. WHAT LIBERAL would sit around and type for an hour just so ten of us could read it??? Nice work sherlock holmes.
Thanks for proving a point. I should have instantly known that the empty headed portion of the electorate that pulls the Democratic lever couldn’t possibly be troubled to put forth an original thought. That would require effort – and we all know that hard work and self determination are conservative traits. Liberals have never been too concerned with articulating the finer points of their ideology. Probably because the naïve precepts of the left don’t bear close scrutiny and are better served with a few catch phrases and a solid hit from the political crack pipe.
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post #9 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-03-2004, 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by RidinSpinnas
Of course he cut and pasted that shit. Who would sit around and type for an hour just so ten of us could read it??? Nice work sherlock holmes.
No..he probably typed it all. He's pretty impressed with himself, and thinks Rush died and left him "King Conservative".
Same ole blather tho!

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand!
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post #10 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-03-2004, 05:39 PM
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Talking politics is fine, but keep the smack-talking localized to the correct forum.

Last edited by KJ94GT; 05-03-2004 at 05:50 PM.
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post #11 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-03-2004, 05:54 PM
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Talking politics is fine, but keep the smack-talking localized to the correct forum.
But wait, aren't you the one on here sticking up for the guys who cut and paste liberal lies???
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post #12 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-03-2004, 05:55 PM
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But wait, aren't you the one on here sticking up for the guys who cut and paste liberal lies???
I edited it AL.
post #13 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-03-2004, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by blownragtop
Thanks for proving a point. I should have instantly known that the empty headed portion of the electorate that pulls the Democratic lever couldn’t possibly be troubled to put forth an original thought. That would require effort – and we all know that hard work and self determination are conservative traits. Liberals have never been too concerned with articulating the finer points of their ideology. Probably because the naïve precepts of the left don’t bear close scrutiny and are better served with a few catch phrases and a solid hit from the political crack pipe.
That statement proves you are a true small-minded poly sci want to be. I consider myself a fiscal conservative and social liberal. I never had a thing given to me that made me a super leftist dependent. I went into the Army at 17 fought under H. Bush then Clinton. My wife did the same; we worked hard to put her through college then law school. I then ended my service and attended college to become a teacher here in Texas. Some of the children I work with daily benefit from welfare, as did I for a short period of time as a child before my mother married my step dad. So please tread lightly with your high horse statements about the stereotypical left-wingers. I spent the first 9 years of my adult life serving this country and I'll spend the rest of serving society as an educator. I work very hard and encourage my kids to choose their own paths, whether they seek fame or glory, right wing or left wing. What have you done and what will you be doing for this country, Judge Ragtop?
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post #14 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-03-2004, 06:26 PM
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I edited it AL.
LOL....OWNED.....
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post #15 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-03-2004, 06:32 PM
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LOL....OWNED.....
Haha, sorry.
post #16 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-03-2004, 08:53 PM
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I must resort to name-calling because I have nothing else in my vocabulary.
I like to call people names like Bitches, Fucktards, Asshats, Crybabys, Liberals (if they don't agree with me), you know, well thought out, mature names like those.

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post #17 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-04-2004, 09:10 PM Thread Starter
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You do have special way of expressing yourself (and I mean special like the Olympics). Your inability to join a discussion when it is elevated above monosyllabic grunts and finger gestures does more to discredit you than I ever could. Thanks for making this so easy.


Pro Trash

I don’t have to apologize for my opinions – or pander to the sensibilities of the hyper sensitive. IF you take issue with anything I’ve said then feel free to prove me wrong. Preferably with something more substantive than the misty, water color memories of your triumphant struggle over your hardscrabble beginnings.

And please reread your post and understand why people use words like “naïve” and “knee-jerk” to describe liberals. Is your support of social spending solely predicated on the fact that your mother was once on welfare? That’s the same kind of non-thinking that I use when deciding on laundry soap. “I use Tide ‘cause mommy did.”

We are all shaped by our respective environments. But only a fool holds on to the prejudices of personal experience in the face of an uncomfortable truth. I’ve presented the truth as I see it… and if it troubles you … then you may want to examine the foundation of your belief system.
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post #18 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-04-2004, 10:57 PM
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Originally posted by blownragtop
[

And please reread your post and understand why people use words like “naïve” and “knee-jerk” to describe liberals. Is your support of social spending solely predicated on the fact that your mother was once on welfare? That’s the same kind of non-thinking that I use when deciding on laundry soap. “I use Tide ‘cause mommy did.”

We are all shaped by our respective environments. But only a fool holds on to the prejudices of personal experience in the face of an uncomfortable truth. I’ve presented the truth as I see it… and if it troubles you … then you may want to examine the foundation of your belief system.
Oh man ragtop this is just so...heavy! I had no idea.
But aside from the ordinary blather, observing Bush for several years as Gov. & (almost) President is hardly a "naive" or "knee jerk" reaction, but keep it simple for yourself, if it helps.

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post #19 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-04-2004, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
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black01gt

You do have special way of expressing yourself (and I mean special like the Olympics). Your inability to join a discussion when it is elevated above monosyllabic grunts and finger gestures does more to discredit you than I ever could. Thanks for making this so easy.


Pro Trash

I don’t have to apologize for my opinions – or pander to the sensibilities of the hyper sensitive. IF you take issue with anything I’ve said then feel free to prove me wrong. Preferably with something more substantive than the misty, water color memories of your triumphant struggle over your hardscrabble beginnings.

And please reread your post and understand why people use words like “naïve” and “knee-jerk” to describe liberals. Is your support of social spending solely predicated on the fact that your mother was once on welfare? That’s the same kind of non-thinking that I use when deciding on laundry soap. “I use Tide ‘cause mommy did.”

We are all shaped by our respective environments. But only a fool holds on to the prejudices of personal experience in the face of an uncomfortable truth. I’ve presented the truth as I see it… and if it troubles you … then you may want to examine the foundation of your belief system.
Nope you have once again just used every big word in your mental lexicon to do zero. When I speak of helping people who are currently low SES it is called empathy something you are obviously to ignorant to understand or you just don't care. It's not something that can be compared to mommy used Tide so I did. If you are majoring in political science my question is why? You sure as hell aren't going to help anyone with your irrational reasoning. The vocabulary you borrowed from Fraiser doesn't fit; however, it does humor me . Do I seem billigerent, that is a big word I learned in the 8th grade you can add to your mental lexicon and stuff up your arse. That was my shaped environment reshaping yours. I also asked several questions about Bush's economic strategies you haven't hit on. Oh yeah SES stands for Social Economic Status. Here is a picture I know you'll love seeing your such a hardcore conservative and all.
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post #20 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-04-2004, 11:34 PM
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since u like pics, here's your hero:



or maybe a pic a la yours is more of your liking......fake, but the premise behind it is not:




Quote:
Originally posted by Pro Trash
Nope you have once again just used every big word in your mental lexicon to do zero. When I speak of helping people who are currently low SES it is called empathy something you are obviously to ignorant to understand or you just don't care. It's not something that can be compared to mommy used Tide so I did. If you are majoring in political science my question is why? You sure as hell aren't going to help anyone with your irrational reasoning. The vocabulary you borrowed from Fraiser doesn't fit; however, it does humor me . Do I seem billigerent, that is a big word I learned in the 8th grade you can add to your mental lexicon and stuff up your arse. That was my shaped environment reshaping yours. I also asked several questions about Bush's economic strategies you haven't hit on. Oh yeah SES stands for Social Economic Status. Here is a picture I know you'll love seeing your such a hardcore conservative and all.

color=#606060]
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"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
Quote:
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post #21 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-05-2004, 03:18 AM
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So he spoke out against the Vietnam, he had a right to.

Thus Spoke Zarathustra
---
This will help everyone out, check it.
It is time we acknowledged a basic feature of human discourse: when considering the truth of a proposition, one is either engaged in an honest appraisal of the evidence and logical arguments, or one is not. Religion is the one area of our lives where people imagine that some other standard of intellectual integrity applies.
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post #22 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-05-2004, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HookEm
since u like pics, here's your hero:



or maybe a pic a la yours is more of your liking......fake, but the premise behind it is not:

I am once again going to ask you, have you ever been to war? If not I am going to have to ask you to shut the hell up. Anyone who has been understands why it is important to protest wars that kill our citizens and drain our economy for what? Does Bush have a new and improved plan in Iraq? If so I'd like to hear it, the old one didn't survive contact, intact. Kerry is not my hero but I have more respect for him than I do Bush. Fact, Bush never saw a bullet fly his way once in Vietnam, fact Kerry earned 2 purple hearts that are not being questioned, a silver star that has not been questioned. Also if he felt the need to throw ribbons he earned over the fence then speak of them later that is his business he hasn't lied about doing so. The thing I find most humorous about the hardcore conservative is they will argue with you till they are blue in the face, thinking they must convince the other side they are more correct. Well the nice thing about being an open minded individual with democratic ideals is that I understand and accept everyone has a difference in opinion. So keep talking, bring some facts because you have yet to impress me with any real ideas of your party. Anyone can point out things they don't like about a candidate. Like the fact while Kerry was fighting for the war to end in his protests, your incumbent was oh yeah being a self admitted drunk womanizer.
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post #23 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-05-2004, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pro Trash
, fact Kerry earned 2 purple hearts that are not being questioned, a silver star that has not been questioned.
Actually your wrong, it is being questioned.
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post #24 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-05-2004, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pro Trash
fact Kerry earned 2 purple hearts that are not being questioned, a silver star that has not been questioned.
These reports are from the Boston globe. You can make your own judgement. On the first Purple Heart, Kerry had a grazing wound. The second ask yourself, how do you get a Purple Heart in battle when there is no documented return fire and at best, extremely limited return fire.

The National Archives provided the Globe with a Navy "instruction" document that formed the basis for Kerry's request. The instruction, titled 1300.39, says that a Naval officer who requires hospitalization on two separate occasions, or who receives three wounds "regardless of the nature of the wounds," can ask a superior officer to request a reassignment. The instruction makes clear the reassignment is not automatic. It says that the reassignment "will be determined after consideration of his physical classification for duty and on an individual basis."

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjoh...y_pur_hrts.htm

This clearly shows that Kerry found a loophole in 1300.39 to allow him to run away from the fight as well as walk away from the crew he commanded.

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post #25 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-05-2004, 12:21 PM
 
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That isn't a damn loophole, that's what 1300.39 stands for.

At the time, these requests were usually granted, and the officer was allowed to leave Vietnam early. The marines had a similar rule, used during the battle for Khe Shan in early 1968. For several months, the marine base of Khe Shan was under siege, and heavy fire. The marines established a policy whereby anyone who was lightly wounded three times, got to leave the embattled base. Marines who got the three wounds could leave without losing the respect of their buddies, although it was considered bad form to put in for a Purple Heart medal for each of those three light wounds. Among combat troops, one Purple Heart per war or campaign was considered sufficient, and many light wounds were never turned into Purple Hearts.
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post #26 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-05-2004, 12:24 PM
 
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"Just give me the aspirin. I already got a Purple Heart."
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post #27 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-05-2004, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by x_redhotcobra_x
These reports are from the Boston globe. You can make your own judgement. On the first Purple Heart, Kerry had a grazing wound. The second ask yourself, how do you get a Purple Heart in battle when there is no documented return fire and at best, extremely limited return fire.

The National Archives provided the Globe with a Navy "instruction" document that formed the basis for Kerry's request. The instruction, titled 1300.39, says that a Naval officer who requires hospitalization on two separate occasions, or who receives three wounds "regardless of the nature of the wounds," can ask a superior officer to request a reassignment. The instruction makes clear the reassignment is not automatic. It says that the reassignment "will be determined after consideration of his physical classification for duty and on an individual basis."

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjoh...y_pur_hrts.htm

This clearly shows that Kerry found a loophole in 1300.39 to allow him to run away from the fight as well as walk away from the crew he commanded.
Read page 10A of the Dallas morning news today they go into detail about the organization specifically led by John O''Neill the Houston Lawyer whom called Kerry a liar in 1971 then contends he himself has no connections to the Republican party. He was promoted by the Nixon administration as a pro war contendering to debate to Kerry back in 71, who iss the real liar. There is also a group that served with Kerry and speaks highly of him. How do explain Bush having his daddy get him into the National Guard to avoid the war all together. He was reprimanded for failing to report, given specific orders for duty because he had not met his quota and went unrated for a year in job field. Talk about a little coward, never saw a day of combat in his whole life but willing to send thousands to meet their fate. Have you ever been to war, I have, that is why I am opposed to it in Iraq. I could care less what you think of my politics and you won't convince to vote for Bush in November either. I have no doubt you'll be voting for Bush, so if he wins let me thank you aheaqd of time for a screwed up economy, more dead americans, more dumb speeches and a deeper national debt.I have no issue with Afghanistan for I feel we belong there but I question Iraq. I bet if your happy ass was in a fox hole in Baghdag you'd be thinking differently. Of course we don't have to worry about that be your not going to give up any luxuries to go now are you?
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post #28 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-07-2004, 08:57 PM Thread Starter
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Pro Trash

First, on a personal note, I’m not sure why you continue to imagine me as a political science student. I’m 4 years older than you JUNIOR… I may have had a poli-sci class my sophomore year – I don’t remember – but it certainly didn’t make much of an impression.

And do you think it would be possible for you to post in a thread without somehow shoehorning in a mention of your military service and/or career as an educator? Kudos to you. I’m giving you a golf clap. But since your Mother Teresa / General Schwarzkopf complex doesn’t lend your unsubstantiated opinions any additional credence - please spare us the self aggrandizing details of your life.

If it makes you feel better you can pretend that I’m jealous. Being a teacher IS a great gig. Summers off, no contributions to Social Security and you get to look down your nose at the common people who can’t possibly compare to your example of civic duty.

But as far as I am concerned you can reserve your holier-than-thou moral relativism for your students. I’m sure they appreciate your condescending socialist Santa sense of altruism.

If you want to impress me with your charitable nature… volunteer your free time to the men’s shelter. You can fluff the urine stained, lice infested mattresses so the ‘victims of capitalism’ can get a good nights sleep before beginning another grueling day panhandling for beer and cigarette money.

It’s not that I don’t ‘empathize’ with the disadvantaged (another wonderful liberal euphemism, by the way). I do. I just don’t choose to patronize or subsidize them.

It’s unfortunate that the stigma of welfare has been removed. We don’t call it charity, or a handout, even though that’s what it is. We call it an “entitlement” so that the people who abuse the system can feel good about themselves. Bullshit. The only thing that you are entitled to in this country is freedom. And true freedom means the freedom to fail. We only have a moral obligation to help those who can’t help themselves.

Welfare was never designed to eliminate poverty – it enables and perpetuates it. And soft headed (and hearted) liberals like you mistakenly equate concern with money.

IF you feel like learning something here’s an interesting read from 1996…

"For decades now, we in government have been content to be judged by the nobility of our intentions and not by the outcome of our policies. The outcome of those policies in the last 30-35 years have made America #1!

• #1 in the world in the use of illegal drugs.
• #1 in the world in pregnancies to unwed teenagers.
• #1 in the world in abortion.
• #1 in the world in percentage of people incarcerated in prisons.
• #1 in the world in divorce.
• Second only to France in alcoholism.

Our policies have been an abysmal failure by any measure, while our only defense is that we meant well, our motives were noble, and our hearts were pure! Meanwhile, our government policies have actually hurt the traditional family by insisting that the real cause of crime is the absence of material goods and services. I submit to you the problem is not material poverty but behavioral poverty. I define behavioral poverty as an eroded work ethic, dependency, lack of educational aspiration and achievement, inability or unwillingness to control one's children, increasing single parenthood and illegitimacy, criminal activity, and drug and alcohol abuse. Welfare is an emotional issue and understandably so. However, Martin Luther King said in 1963, "It's time to stop looking emotionally and start looking pragmatically."

Today, the federal government runs seventy-seven major interrelated and overlapping welfare programs! Welfare is so large it is difficult to comprehend. One way to make it more tangible is to recognize that, on average, the cost of the welfare system amounted to $3,357 in taxes from each household that paid federal income tax in 1993. After adjusting for inflation:
• Welfare spending has risen in every year but two from 1965 to the present.
• Welfare spending is now 8.4 times greater than in 1965 when the war on poverty began.
• Cash, food, housing and energy aid are six times higher than when the war on poverty began.

Welfare growth does not reflect the growth in population. In 1993, in inflation-adjusted dollars, welfare spending for persons equaled 640% of spending at the beginning of the war on poverty.

The financial cost on the war on poverty has been enormous! Between 1965 and 1994, in constant 1993 dollars, welfare spending has cost the taxpayers $5.4 trillion dollars. You should note that the total cost of World War II was $3.1 trillion dollars (in 1993 dollars).

For $5.4 trillion dollars you could buy every factory, all the manufacturing equipment, and every office building in the U.S.

Imagine that! With what's left over, you could buy:
• Every airline, every railroad, every trucking firm, and the entire commercial fleet.
• Every telephone, television and radio company.
• Every power company, every hotel, and every retail and wholesale store in the nation!

And, in 1993 dollars, spending for low income persons in 1965 was $789.00. Today it is $5,023.

Projected costs? Together federal and state governments will spend an additional $2.38 trillion on welfare in the next five years! In 1977 Ronald Reagan said, "We fear the Government may be powerful enough to destroy families; we know it is not powerful enough to replace them." In all things you get what you pay for, and for thirty years we've paid for non-work and non-marriage and seen an explosion in both. What has been the social impact of the war on poverty? Today one child in seven is being raised on welfare. In 1965, roughly one black child in four was born out of wedlock, today two out of three. Overall, nearly one-third of all children are born to single mothers.

Lest you think this a "black" problem, the illegitimate birth rate among white female high school dropouts is 48%! Young white women raised in single-parent homes on welfare are 164% more likely to bear children out of wedlock and 111% more likely to have children as teenagers. If they marry, they are 92% more likely to divorce.

The plight of the under-class is rooted in behavior and it is the difference in values and behavior which separates the under-class from the middle class. Quite simply, there are three rules for escaping from poverty in America.

• 1. Finish high school
• 2. Get a job - any job - and stick to it.
• 3. Do not have children outside of marriage.

You see, today, single mothers "contract" with the government. The "contract" a single mother has with the government is that she will receive a "paycheck" worth between $8,500 and $15,000 depending on the state as long as she fulfills two conditions: (1) She must not work and (2) She must not marry a man who works. One of the many reasons our current welfare system is not working was enunciated well by Marvin OLasky in his book, The Tragedy of American Compassion, when he wrote, "indiscriminate charity from impersonal entities fails to take into account the needs of the human spirit."

http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/P...fareReform.htm
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post #29 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-08-2004, 02:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by blownragtop
Pro Trash

First, on a personal note, I’m not sure why you continue to imagine me as a political science student. I’m 4 years older than you JUNIOR… I may have had a poli-sci class my sophomore year – I don’t remember – but it certainly didn’t make much of an impression.

And do you think it would be possible for you to post in a thread without somehow shoehorning in a mention of your military service and/or career as an educator? Kudos to you. I’m giving you a golf clap. But since your Mother Teresa / General Schwarzkopf complex doesn’t lend your unsubstantiated opinions any additional credence - please spare us the self aggrandizing details of your life.

If it makes you feel better you can pretend that I’m jealous. Being a teacher IS a great gig. Summers off, no contributions to Social Security and you get to look down your nose at the common people who can’t possibly compare to your example of civic duty.

But as far as I am concerned you can reserve your holier-than-thou moral relativism for your students. I’m sure they appreciate your condescending socialist Santa sense of altruism.

If you want to impress me with your charitable nature… volunteer your free time to the men’s shelter. You can fluff the urine stained, lice infested mattresses so the ‘victims of capitalism’ can get a good nights sleep before beginning another grueling day panhandling for beer and cigarette money.

It’s not that I don’t ‘empathize’ with the disadvantaged (another wonderful liberal euphemism, by the way). I do. I just don’t choose to patronize or subsidize them.

It’s unfortunate that the stigma of welfare has been removed. We don’t call it charity, or a handout, even though that’s what it is. We call it an “entitlement” so that the people who abuse the system can feel good about themselves. Bullshit. The only thing that you are entitled to in this country is freedom. And true freedom means the freedom to fail. We only have a moral obligation to help those who can’t help themselves.

Welfare was never designed to eliminate poverty – it enables and perpetuates it. And soft headed (and hearted) liberals like you mistakenly equate concern with money.

IF you feel like learning something here’s an interesting read from 1996…

"For decades now, we in government have been content to be judged by the nobility of our intentions and not by the outcome of our policies. The outcome of those policies in the last 30-35 years have made America #1!

• #1 in the world in the use of illegal drugs.
• #1 in the world in pregnancies to unwed teenagers.
• #1 in the world in abortion.
• #1 in the world in percentage of people incarcerated in prisons.
• #1 in the world in divorce.
• Second only to France in alcoholism.

Our policies have been an abysmal failure by any measure, while our only defense is that we meant well, our motives were noble, and our hearts were pure! Meanwhile, our government policies have actually hurt the traditional family by insisting that the real cause of crime is the absence of material goods and services. I submit to you the problem is not material poverty but behavioral poverty. I define behavioral poverty as an eroded work ethic, dependency, lack of educational aspiration and achievement, inability or unwillingness to control one's children, increasing single parenthood and illegitimacy, criminal activity, and drug and alcohol abuse. Welfare is an emotional issue and understandably so. However, Martin Luther King said in 1963, "It's time to stop looking emotionally and start looking pragmatically."

Today, the federal government runs seventy-seven major interrelated and overlapping welfare programs! Welfare is so large it is difficult to comprehend. One way to make it more tangible is to recognize that, on average, the cost of the welfare system amounted to $3,357 in taxes from each household that paid federal income tax in 1993. After adjusting for inflation:
• Welfare spending has risen in every year but two from 1965 to the present.
• Welfare spending is now 8.4 times greater than in 1965 when the war on poverty began.
• Cash, food, housing and energy aid are six times higher than when the war on poverty began.

Welfare growth does not reflect the growth in population. In 1993, in inflation-adjusted dollars, welfare spending for persons equaled 640% of spending at the beginning of the war on poverty.

The financial cost on the war on poverty has been enormous! Between 1965 and 1994, in constant 1993 dollars, welfare spending has cost the taxpayers $5.4 trillion dollars. You should note that the total cost of World War II was $3.1 trillion dollars (in 1993 dollars).

For $5.4 trillion dollars you could buy every factory, all the manufacturing equipment, and every office building in the U.S.

Imagine that! With what's left over, you could buy:
• Every airline, every railroad, every trucking firm, and the entire commercial fleet.
• Every telephone, television and radio company.
• Every power company, every hotel, and every retail and wholesale store in the nation!

And, in 1993 dollars, spending for low income persons in 1965 was $789.00. Today it is $5,023.

Projected costs? Together federal and state governments will spend an additional $2.38 trillion on welfare in the next five years! In 1977 Ronald Reagan said, "We fear the Government may be powerful enough to destroy families; we know it is not powerful enough to replace them." In all things you get what you pay for, and for thirty years we've paid for non-work and non-marriage and seen an explosion in both. What has been the social impact of the war on poverty? Today one child in seven is being raised on welfare. In 1965, roughly one black child in four was born out of wedlock, today two out of three. Overall, nearly one-third of all children are born to single mothers.

Lest you think this a "black" problem, the illegitimate birth rate among white female high school dropouts is 48%! Young white women raised in single-parent homes on welfare are 164% more likely to bear children out of wedlock and 111% more likely to have children as teenagers. If they marry, they are 92% more likely to divorce.

The plight of the under-class is rooted in behavior and it is the difference in values and behavior which separates the under-class from the middle class. Quite simply, there are three rules for escaping from poverty in America.

• 1. Finish high school
• 2. Get a job - any job - and stick to it.
• 3. Do not have children outside of marriage.

You see, today, single mothers "contract" with the government. The "contract" a single mother has with the government is that she will receive a "paycheck" worth between $8,500 and $15,000 depending on the state as long as she fulfills two conditions: (1) She must not work and (2) She must not marry a man who works. One of the many reasons our current welfare system is not working was enunciated well by Marvin OLasky in his book, The Tragedy of American Compassion, when he wrote, "indiscriminate charity from impersonal entities fails to take into account the needs of the human spirit."

http://www.sutherlandinstitute.org/P...fareReform.htm
I am proud of my military service and I guess the only marching your nerdy ass has done was in elementary school. I think this quote probably applies to you,

Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier.
--Samuel Johnson--

I can't help it if you have never served anyone but yourself. My wife was a single mother, ex-military, college student when I married her. She was working to put herself through school and raise an 11 month old little girl without, family monetary support, welfare or social services assistance. My mom only took welfare when it was forced on her by the social services department in the small town we lived in. She worked two jobs after that to get out from under Social Services. I was just asked the other day by one of my students why she doesn't get reduced lunch when she is one of 3 kids being raised by a hard working single black woman. She asked because a friend of hers who lives with both of her parents does qualify. I had to explain dependency issues to her. These are few of many examples of singles parents working hard to raise kids. So your ideas on that social aspect are way out in right field, also if a person becomes pregnant and they are single what do you suggest. Would it be abortion, I wouldn't suggest that but I wonder if a Conservative such as yourself would? Who the fuck are you to tell single people not to have kids? Also as far as social security or my job. Don't bitch at me if you choose a job you don't care for, it sucks or are going to get screwed by the social security system. I thought long and hard before I used my service benefits and decided this to be the best career field for me. I do volunteer my free time, two nights a month to assist in training adults to attain their GEDs. I'll be volunteering to lead civil war historical tours in D.C. this June for unnder priviledged kids. My sister in law who served 4 years in the Army, payed her way through college at Colorado and then graduated from Yale Law currently defends death row inmates for 30k a year and anyone knows Yale graduates come out of law school making at the lowest 120k a year if they work corporate law, so people give all the time, do you? The Republicans do a pretty damn good job of not dealing at all with social programs but are more concerned with tax cuts (which only put us in debt, you have to stop spending sometime) and personal wealth. Oh shit I forgot they did cut spending 15 Billion in Veterans Benifits over the next 15 years right after Dubya lied to us Veterans and said he would fight for Veterans Benifits. That's it, send the soldiers to war, get them all fucked up, then drop them on their ass, man you sure have to love that guy. Face it you are just a person who is willing to step on anyone to get ahead much like your own Vice President, who has his hands so dirty with big corporation money he can't see straight. You know the House of Representatives ( they propose Bills/Make Laws) is currently led by the Republicans as is the Senate, so why hasn't Dubya and the House/Senate gotten hot on the Social Programs? All of Capital Hill and the White House are Republican run so what gives? What about them and Social Security, oh yeah they don't worry about it so why don't you contact your local Representative and ask? They probably could care less but they are your Republicans after all and the House members make $158,100 if you wanted to know. So before you get on here speaking out about the current Social Programs and it's flaws, explain to me why your party that has been in charge for over 3 years now, has done Jack Shit to change it. "Oh" bad time for self realization, could it be you fall into the little man pool and they don't give a shit because they know your going to vote for them anyway.
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post #30 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-08-2004, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Read page 10A of the Dallas morning news today they go into detail about the organization specifically led by John O''Neill the Houston Lawyer whom called Kerry a liar in 1971 then contends he himself has no connections to the Republican party. He was promoted by the Nixon administration as a pro war contendering to debate to Kerry back in 71, who iss the real liar. There is also a group that served with Kerry and speaks highly of him.
If you listened to John O'Neill as opposed to reading exerts from the news paper which are left-wing, you would see the man only discussed which is only first hand information. This man spent 3 years in Vietnam in coastal 11, NOT 3 MONTHS. If you listened to the interview of John Kerry's commander Hillard, you would have heard him verbally say that he did not approve of 1 of Kerry's purple hearts. The reason was they supposedly interacted with enemy combatants but there was evidence of there being absolutely no returning fire based on his reports and witness's. After Kerry did not gain approval from commander Hillard for his desired purple heart, he went else where after Hillard was moved to a different assignment.

Quote:
How do explain Bush having his daddy get him into the National Guard to avoid the war all together. He was reprimanded for failing to report, given specific orders for duty because he had not met his quota and went unrated for a year in job field. Talk about a little coward, never saw a day of combat in his whole life but willing to send thousands to meet their fate.
You appear to alluding to the previous BS that Bush was AWOL. Based on the investigations of the documents that were made public and the media found that Bush was never deemed AWOL by the National Guard. Bush had to put his own signature on the line to sign up for the National Guard, not his father. The National Guard has had many good people who served in WW2, the Vietnam era, as well as right now. Why would want to discredit people in the National Guard? Lets look at the fact, John Kerry did elect to leave his command and leave the fight after being involved in coastal 11 for 3 months. Do you really want to have a president who has a proven track record of cut-and-run when he's in a fight? From you dialogue, you probably would.

Quote:
Have you ever been to war, I have, that is why I am opposed to it in Iraq. I could care less what you think of my politics and you won't convince to vote for Bush in November either. I have no doubt you'll be voting for Bush, so if he wins let me thank you aheaqd of time for a screwed up economy, more dead americans, more dumb speeches and a deeper national debt.I have no issue with Afghanistan for I feel we belong there but I question Iraq. I bet if your happy ass was in a fox hole in Baghdag you'd be thinking differently. Of course we don't have to worry about that be your not going to give up any luxuries to go now are you?
Your inference that people who haven't been to war are incapable of having a clue as to what it is about and the emotions that go on is as classic of a statement as your political mentor which was "I never had sexual relations with that woman." If you have followed the economy since the late 90's, you would see and understand that we were heading in a recession in 1999-2000 because largely of the dot com bubble burst. I don’t care who was president at the time but between the dot com bubble burst and the attack on 9/11, we were going to go further into recession. The current economy is robust because of the policies that the current administration and an inclusive of the congress and senate have focused upon. The U.S. government "facts" are that we had GDP growth of 8.3% in Q3 2003, well over 4% of the fourth quarter of 2003 and over 4% of the first quarter in 2004. If we inject Kerry's economic plan into the economy, you will derail all the good that has been done in pulling us out of a recession. Bare in mind, there has been no economic growth in Europe. Lastly as far the deficit is concerned, I would as that you reread the Reagan years. Deficits came down drastically when the profits of corporations went up in conjunction with good economic growth. When corporations increase their profits, they have to pay higher amounts of taxes because you are taxed on a percentage of gross profit. And I ask you to do one simple calculation so you understand the percentage impact of the deficit, take the total amount of money that is spent by the U.S. government and compare that to the deficit. Regardless of this percentage, the deficit will go down quickly as corporate profits go up.

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post #31 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-08-2004, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by x_redhotcobra_x
If you listened to John O'Neill as opposed to reading exerts from the news paper which are left-wing, you would see the man only discussed which is only first hand information. This man spent 3 years in Vietnam in coastal 11, NOT 3 MONTHS. If you listened to the interview of John Kerry's commander Hillard, you would have heard him verbally say that he did not approve of 1 of Kerry's purple hearts. The reason was they supposedly interacted with enemy combatants but there was evidence of there being absolutely no returning fire based on his reports and witness's. After Kerry did not gain approval from commander Hillard for his desired purple heart, he went else where after Hillard was moved to a different assignment.



You appear to alluding to the previous BS that Bush was AWOL. Based on the investigations of the documents that were made public and the media found that Bush was never deemed AWOL by the National Guard. Bush had to put his own signature on the line to sign up for the National Guard, not his father. The National Guard has had many good people who served in WW2, the Vietnam era, as well as right now. Why would want to discredit people in the National Guard? Lets look at the fact, John Kerry did elect to leave his command and leave the fight after being involved in coastal 11 for 3 months. Do you really want to have a president who has a proven track record of cut-and-run when he's in a fight? From you dialogue, you probably would.



Your inference that people who haven't been to war are incapable of having a clue as to what it is about and the emotions that go on is as classic of a statement as your political mentor which was "I never had sexual relations with that woman." If you have followed the economy since the late 90's, you would see and understand that we were heading in a recession in 1999-2000 because largely of the dot com bubble burst. I don’t care who was president at the time but between the dot com bubble burst and the attack on 9/11, we were going to go further into recession. The current economy is robust because of the policies that the current administration and an inclusive of the congress and senate have focused upon. The U.S. government "facts" are that we had GDP growth of 8.3% in Q3 2003, well over 4% of the fourth quarter of 2003 and over 4% of the first quarter in 2004. If we inject Kerry's economic plan into the economy, you will derail all the good that has been done in pulling us out of a recession. Bare in mind, there has been no economic growth in Europe. Lastly as far the deficit is concerned, I would as that you reread the Reagan years. Deficits came down drastically when the profits of corporations went up in conjunction with good economic growth. When corporations increase their profits, they have to pay higher amounts of taxes because you are taxed on a percentage of gross profit. And I ask you to do one simple calculation so you understand the percentage impact of the deficit, take the total amount of money that is spent by the U.S. government and compare that to the deficit. Regardless of this percentage, the deficit will go down quickly as corporate profits go up.
There are letters from his personal file indicating he failed to show for duty, they are in his file released by his people. I never said anything bad about the National Guard I do however feel that during a War such as Vietnam when you seek to go into a position as such you are avoiding the War. As for my opinion I have never cut and run from anything, any time you need proof call me out then swing on me, you'll see how mean my ass can really get and who'll cut and run.
As for the economy and Bush here we go, by borrowing from future generations to give tax relief to those who need help the least, George W. Bush’s economic policies have, for the first time in history, forced the federal government to spend $1 billion more EACH DAY than it takes in. John Kerry believes that we need a smaller and smarter government that wastes less money. He has put forward a sensible plan that will at least cut the deficit in half in his first term, while investing in economic growth and investing in workers. To restore fiscal discipline and strengthen our economy, Kerry will repeal Bush’s special tax breaks for Americans who make more than $200,000. He will cut excesses in government and rein in out of control spending. And he will implement the McCain-Kerry(bi-partisan) commission on corporate welfare to undermine the special interest groups that make it hard to cut tax loopholes and pork barrel spending projects.
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post #32 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-08-2004, 07:17 PM
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As for my opinion I have never cut and run from anything, any time you need proof call me out then swing on me, you'll see how mean my ass can really get and who'll cut and run.
First off, I wasn't talking about you when I said "cut and run," I was referring to cut and run Kerry. As far as looking over the records more than 35 years for on time show ups, stop the BS. You know that you can misconstrue any kind of records for showing up for duty. The fact is Bush got an honorable discharge. Don’t try to misconstrue or demean that fact.

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As for the economy and Bush here we go, by borrowing from future generations to give tax relief to those who need help the least, George W. Bush’s economic policies have, for the first time in history, forced the federal government to spend $1 billion more EACH DAY than it takes in. John Kerry believes that we need a smaller and smarter government that wastes less money. He has put forward a sensible plan that will at least cut the deficit in half in his first term, while investing in economic growth and investing in workers. To restore fiscal discipline and strengthen our economy, Kerry will repeal Bush’s special tax breaks for Americans who make more than $200,000. He will cut excesses in government and rein in out of control spending. And he will implement the McCain-Kerry(bi-partisan) commission on corporate welfare to undermine the special interest groups that make it hard to cut tax loopholes and pork barrel spending projects.

Concerning the economy issues with cut and run Kerry, to revoke the tax cuts has an extremely high probability of taking our current economic growth off track. Are you aware that the top 5 percent of the earning public contributes over 90% of our tax? If we pull disposable income out of our economy as Kerry wants to do and put into entitlement programs, it will reduce available money in the economy to purchase products. Based on your economic response, I was wondering, were you copying and pasting this left-wing mantra about the McCain-Kerry plan? Keep in mind that you are talking about somebody who admitted to war atrocities and is currently trying to take the moral high ground in this current issue of prisoners. Concerning Kerry, I kind of feel the same as Bill Clinton. Should I really listen to somebody as in the case of Clinton who has been impeached, disbarred, and is a convicted felon?

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post #33 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-08-2004, 08:07 PM
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First off, I wasn't talking about you when I said "cut and run," I was referring to cut and run Kerry. As far as looking over the records more than 35 years for on time show ups, stop the BS. You know that you can misconstrue any kind of records for showing up for duty. The fact is Bush got an honorable discharge. Don’t try to misconstrue or demean that fact.




Concerning the economy issues with cut and run Kerry, to revoke the tax cuts has an extremely high probability of taking our current economic growth off track. Are you aware that the top 5 percent of the earning public contributes over 90% of our tax? If we pull disposable income out of our economy as Kerry wants to do and put into entitlement programs, it will reduce available money in the economy to purchase products. Based on your economic response, I was wondering, were you copying and pasting this left-wing mantra about the McCain-Kerry plan? Keep in mind that you are talking about somebody who admitted to war atrocities and is currently trying to take the moral high ground in this current issue of prisoners. Concerning Kerry, I kind of feel the same as Bill Clinton. Should I really listen to somebody as in the case of Clinton who has been impeached, disbarred, and is a convicted felon?
No I am not cutting and pasting, Kerry wants to stop US jobs from going overseas. He wants to try a new economic strategy. Any time you invoke a new economic strategy you take the chance of sliding into a recession. After every election there is a mini-recession. I don't feel Bush caused the current recession I do however feel he didn't do much to improve our economy. He has only really gotten of his ass and began to bang out economic reforms since last fall. That is one year before election time, I am not impressed.

I read this quote recently from the CNN website
"Outsourcing is just a new way of doing international trade. We're very used to goods being produced abroad and being shipped here on ships or planes. What we're not used to is services being produced abroad and being sent here over the Internet or telephone wires. The economics is basically the same. More things are tradable than were tradable in the past and that's a good thing."
~ N. Gregory Mankiw, Chairman of Bush's Council of Economic Advisers


With that attitude, it's easy to see how Bush can be proud of his record of losing 2.9 million jobs since he took office -- the first president to lose jobs during his term since Herbert Hoover. If sending American jobs overseas is "a good thing," then Bush should be proud of his record of hemorrhaging jobs.

Of course, the millions of Americans who are out of work would disagree. Go ahead and help him get elected in November. Can you say Grapes of Wrath, how about "Bushvilles".
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post #34 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 01:11 AM
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No I am not cutting and pasting, Kerry wants to stop US jobs from going overseas. He wants to try a new economic strategy. Any time you invoke a new economic strategy you take the chance of sliding into a recession. After every election there is a mini-recession. I don't feel Bush caused the current recession I do however feel he didn't do much to improve our economy. He has only really gotten of his ass and began to bang out economic reforms since last fall. That is one year before election time, I am not impressed.

I read this quote recently from the CNN website
"Outsourcing is just a new way of doing international trade. We're very used to goods being produced abroad and being shipped here on ships or planes. What we're not used to is services being produced abroad and being sent here over the Internet or telephone wires. The economics is basically the same. More things are tradable than were tradable in the past and that's a good thing."
~ N. Gregory Mankiw, Chairman of Bush's Council of Economic Advisers


With that attitude, it's easy to see how Bush can be proud of his record of losing 2.9 million jobs since he took office -- the first president to lose jobs during his term since Herbert Hoover. If sending American jobs overseas is "a good thing," then Bush should be proud of his record of hemorrhaging jobs.

Of course, the millions of Americans who are out of work would disagree. Go ahead and help him get elected in November. Can you say Grapes of Wrath, how about "Bushvilles".
First off, I agree that there should be some sort of moderation when necessary as to the types of jobs that go off shore. However, let’s look at the magnitude of outsourcing jobs over the last 10 years which really hasn't changed an offal lot. We have approximately 148 million people with jobs in the U.S. and about 3.5 million jobs are outsourced. That is just little over 2% which isn't really that much. Your premise that Bush is sending jobs over seas as if he is the only person responsible is false. As a matter of fact, the president doesn't lead these things, the CEO's of companies like Nike do. Bare in mind that if U.S. companies don't outsource certain jobs which enables them to be competitive, they will be out of business which does tend to complicate the employment issue, comprende?

As far as your cut and run buddy Kerry is concerned, he owns approximately 6 million dollars in stock in the Heinz Corporation which has approximately 59 manufacturing sites of which 47 of them are outside the U.S. He may not control what goes on in the Heinz Corporation, but if his true personal focus was to support companies who support jobs in the U.S., he would not have invested this kind of money unless he can live with being a self-hypocrite. With the manufacturing sites outside the U.S., some people may say they are only there to process local foods. However, if you really think about it, those foods could be cryogenically shipped to the U.S. and processed here. Actually, I don’t believe this is really feasible in many cases, but it goes to show you that outsourcing certain jobs in necessary in manufacturing to be competitive.

The more important issue than outsourcing some jobs is how do we gain control of technology in science and engineering and getting more students to major in engineering and the physical sciences as opposed to having foreign students come here and study in the engineering and physical sciences and going back to their country. In this regard, I think the private sector of business has to get involved with students at the elementary and middle school level.

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post #35 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 01:49 AM
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First off, I agree that there should be some sort of moderation when necessary as to the types of jobs that go off shore. However, let’s look at the magnitude of outsourcing jobs over the last 10 years which really hasn't changed an offal lot. We have approximately 148 million people with jobs in the U.S. and about 3.5 million jobs are outsourced. That is just little over 2% which isn't really that much. Your premise that Bush is sending jobs over seas as if he is the only person responsible is false. As a matter of fact, the president doesn't lead these things, the CEO's of companies like Nike do. Bare in mind that if U.S. companies don't outsource certain jobs which enables them to be competitive, they will be out of business which does tend to complicate the employment issue, comprende?

As far as your cut and run buddy Kerry is concerned, he owns approximately 6 million dollars in stock in the Heinz Corporation which has approximately 59 manufacturing sites of which 47 of them are outside the U.S. He may not control what goes on in the Heinz Corporation, but if his true personal focus was to support companies who support jobs in the U.S., he would not have invested this kind of money unless he can live with being a self-hypocrite. With the manufacturing sites outside the U.S., some people may say they are only there to process local foods. However, if you really think about it, those foods could be cryogenically shipped to the U.S. and processed here. Actually, I don’t believe this is really feasible in many cases, but it goes to show you that outsourcing certain jobs in necessary in manufacturing to be competitive.

The more important issue than outsourcing some jobs is how do we gain control of technology in science and engineering and getting more students to major in engineering and the physical sciences as opposed to having foreign students come here and study in the engineering and physical sciences and going back to their country. In this regard, I think the private sector of business has to get involved with students at the elementary and middle school level.
The disturbing shit is recent articles posted at USA Daily, World Net Daily, and other news outlets have been pointing out the bs and growing corporate trend of out sourcing or "off shoring -- U.S. jobs. In the couple of years, over 1.3 million American workers have been displaced by foreign workers with L-1, H-1B or similar visa permits inside the U.S., or have lost their jobs to replacements in overseas work sites in India and elsewhere, where labor costs are cheaper. It is estimated that in the next 15 years, another 3.3 million white-collar jobs will be lost to foreigners. With current unemployment rate 2% as you stated does make a difference.

The real bitch is the blame for this massive job loss can be squarely placed on U.S. corporations like Microsoft, Hewlett Packard, IBM, Ernst & Young, General Electric, American Express, Citibank, and dozens of other companies, as well as our elected officials in government who have yet to take action to stop this economic disaster. If this bullshit continues, America will become a slave economy. Out-sourcing U.S. jobs and displacing American workers will increase the already high unemployment rate, lower overall wages and benefits for Americans, and force new people to seek relief on the public dole( Socialism oh shit). Not even President Bush's new $350 billion tax cut bill, which just passed Congress last week, will stimulate the economy enough to overcome this expected job loss. Congressman John Mica (R-FL) has introduced legislation (H.R. 2154) which is intended to limit and rein in the L-1 visa program, and thus save American jobs. However, this weak bill contains loopholes and will do very little to help save U.S. jobs. Also just this evening News 8 was saying summer jobs for teens are going to be hard to come by because so many adults displaced by the poor economy have been forced to take jobs once left to teens to get by.

As a democrat you know I am not going to buy into private big businesses getting involved in the school before our government creates a social reform to deal with it. Just as Roosevelt had the New Deal, we need some major social reforms to deal with todays educational issues. Longer class hours, more teachers, improved reading and math programs. More money to hire the people who know math and science so they can recieve stipends that are adequate and don't trail the private sector so poorly. A standardized national education platform that has all states teaching the same general content allowing for 30% flexibility. A major revision to no child left behind. I could go on but it just gets worse from here.
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post #36 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 12:43 PM
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The disturbing shit is recent articles posted at USA Daily, World Net Daily, and other news outlets have been pointing out the bs and growing corporate trend of out sourcing or "off shoring -- U.S. jobs. In the couple of years, over 1.3 million American workers have been displaced by foreign workers with L-1, H-1B or similar visa permits inside the U.S., or have lost their jobs to replacements in overseas work sites in India and elsewhere, where labor costs are cheaper. It is estimated that in the next 15 years, another 3.3 million white-collar jobs will be lost to foreigners. With current unemployment rate 2% as you stated does make a difference.

The real bitch is the blame for this massive job loss can be squarely placed on U.S. corporations like Microsoft, Hewlett Packard, IBM, Ernst & Young, General Electric, American Express, Citibank, and dozens of other companies, as well as our elected officials in government who have yet to take action to stop this economic disaster. If this bullshit continues, America will become a slave economy. Out-sourcing U.S. jobs and displacing American workers will increase the already high unemployment rate, lower overall wages and benefits for Americans, and force new people to seek relief on the public dole( Socialism oh shit). Not even President Bush's new $350 billion tax cut bill, which just passed Congress last week, will stimulate the economy enough to overcome this expected job loss. Congressman John Mica (R-FL) has introduced legislation (H.R. 2154) which is intended to limit and rein in the L-1 visa program, and thus save American jobs. However, this weak bill contains loopholes and will do very little to help save U.S. jobs. Also just this evening News 8 was saying summer jobs for teens are going to be hard to come by because so many adults displaced by the poor economy have been forced to take jobs once left to teens to get by.

As a democrat you know I am not going to buy into private big businesses getting involved in the school before our government creates a social reform to deal with it. Just as Roosevelt had the New Deal, we need some major social reforms to deal with todays educational issues. Longer class hours, more teachers, improved reading and math programs. More money to hire the people who know math and science so they can recieve stipends that are adequate and don't trail the private sector so poorly. A standardized national education platform that has all states teaching the same general content allowing for 30% flexibility. A major revision to no child left behind. I could go on but it just gets worse from here.
I compliment your summation on outsourcing of jobs because it is something that we have to take control of and set some boundaries on it whether we have a republican or democratic control of the house as well as the executive branch, these current outsourced jobs has been growing over the last 10 years, and attention given to basic critical industry such as the steel industry was handled deplorably by the Clinton administration. Concerning the people coming from the work force, if the interest rates would go up, you would see that retirees could start living off their savings a lot better. The fact interest rates went so low although good for parts of our economy has increased that number of people in the work force. Although I must say at an unemployment rate of 5.6% our economy and number of people working certainly appears to be going in the right direction. One thing that I think people don't understand about jobs being lost is the types of jobs that have been lost. The major impact that occurred with tech jobs was when the dot com bubble bursted. When the dot com bubble bursted and a lot of these companies went out of business from 99-2001 a lot of people were displaced. It’s grossly unfair to blame the losses relative to these jobs on the current president when the previous administration did nothing to help save an industry from despair. The one thing that still ceases to amaze me is why the previous administration did not push for a drastic reduction in dividend taxes which would have injected a sizable amount of cash into the economy to make up for the loss of capitalization value of dot com companies stock when the dot com bubble bursted.

Concerning your views on education, obviously you are looking for what you perceive as being a consistent program. I think you may be missing the key link between industry and education. We will need a higher amount of people majoring in engineering and physical sciences. I couldn't think of a more influential link to capture interest at a young age and have it focused on certain science curriculums than key industry workers within these industries by coming to schools and getting involved in financial support, mentoring and educational standards. In my father’s case, he was highly influenced to become a chemist by the mentoring programs.

Your dialogue on these topics is appreciated.

Go Bush Cheney 04!

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post #37 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 04:31 PM
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Look...everyone gets that you served, and went to war.....yippee. I served, but there wasn't a war to go to at the time...not my fault. You went to war...ok. I got it the first 5,456,453,456,980 times that you referenced it. Ditto for being a teacher.
The hypocrisy you spew out if disturbing.
You chastize Bush for taking a route "Around" Vietnam, when KErry tried to do THE EXACT SAME THING, but was denied.
KErry wasn't there because he WANTEd to be. He just got denied...and you know that. Furthermore, our economy by all signs is back to normal, as are most economies when they enter a post war stage.
Now let's see...what's worse....protesting a war before you're sent, bringing your own camera along to tape yourself in action, and associating with a treasonous c*nt, or being a single womanizing drunk. You were fine with Clinton getting head in the Oral, err OVal, Office as a married man, but Bush was single and NOT the President, and it's bad.
You should change your sig to "These are my convictions....if you don't like them, I have others."



Quote:
Originally posted by Pro Trash
I am once again going to ask you, have you ever been to war? If not I am going to have to ask you to shut the hell up. Anyone who has been understands why it is important to protest wars that kill our citizens and drain our economy for what? Does Bush have a new and improved plan in Iraq? If so I'd like to hear it, the old one didn't survive contact, intact. Kerry is not my hero but I have more respect for him than I do Bush. Fact, Bush never saw a bullet fly his way once in Vietnam, fact Kerry earned 2 purple hearts that are not being questioned, a silver star that has not been questioned. Also if he felt the need to throw ribbons he earned over the fence then speak of them later that is his business he hasn't lied about doing so. The thing I find most humorous about the hardcore conservative is they will argue with you till they are blue in the face, thinking they must convince the other side they are more correct. Well the nice thing about being an open minded individual with democratic ideals is that I understand and accept everyone has a difference in opinion. So keep talking, bring some facts because you have yet to impress me with any real ideas of your party. Anyone can point out things they don't like about a candidate. Like the fact while Kerry was fighting for the war to end in his protests, your incumbent was oh yeah being a self admitted drunk womanizer.
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post #38 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 06:49 PM
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Look...everyone gets that you served, and went to war.....yippee. I served, but there wasn't a war to go to at the time...not my fault. You went to war...ok. I got it the first 5,456,453,456,980 times that you referenced it. Ditto for being a teacher.
The hypocrisy you spew out if disturbing.
You chastize Bush for taking a route "Around" Vietnam, when KErry tried to do THE EXACT SAME THING, but was denied.
KErry wasn't there because he WANTEd to be. He just got denied...and you know that. Furthermore, our economy by all signs is back to normal, as are most economies when they enter a post war stage.
Now let's see...what's worse....protesting a war before you're sent, bringing your own camera along to tape yourself in action, and associating with a treasonous c*nt, or being a single womanizing drunk. You were fine with Clinton getting head in the Oral, err OVal, Office as a married man, but Bush was single and NOT the President, and it's bad.
You should change your sig to "These are my convictions....if you don't like them, I have others."
I think your jealous but I don't mind. It is not hypocrisy and stop reading from every conservative website you can find. The things you mentioned about Kerry are BS where did you find the proof he tried to avoid the war? Did you know Cheney requested to forgo it? Better a man with a camera than a coward in Jet. Also as for Bush being a womanizing drunk, I have used it to show people change, he has. If you can't accept Kerry has changed since 1971 then don't pretend anything has. Of course if you wish to live in La La land be my guest. Clinton did something awful no getting past that but I don't bring him up for he is shame to the party, just as Nixon was to yours. Let's not forget more recently Iran/Contra. You really think a Colonel did all that, my ass, he was the Republican scape goat, enough said though. While we are slinging insults why don't you change your sig to "fucking unknown" until you can figure out which damn college you want to claim or better yet actually graduate from.
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post #39 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 07:11 PM
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I think your jealous but I don't mind.

It's You're, "teach."

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It is not hypocrisy and stop reading from every conservative website you can find. The things you mentioned about Kerry are BS where did you find the proof he tried to avoid the war?

Harvard is a bastion of Conservatism now, eh?

Wow.
http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=352185
Ditto for the UKs Telegraph????
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...ixnewstop.html
Amazing....the VRWC is an all intrusive piece of work.
Quote:

Did you know Cheney requested to forgo it? Better a man with a camera than a coward in Jet.
/
Cheney isn't using it as an election plank, unlike Hanoi John.

Quote:

Also as for Bush being a womanizing drunk, I have used it to show people change, he has. If you can't accept Kerry has changed since 1971 then don't pretend anything has. Of course if you wish to live in La La land be my guest.


Bush apologized publicly for poor choices. Kerry has not. You are the one in lala land.
Quote:

Clinton did something awful no getting past that but I don't bring him up for he is shame to the party, just as Nixon was to yours.


Nixon wasn't impeached.

Quote:

Let's not forget more recently Iran/Contra. You really think a Colonel did all that, my ass, he was the Republican scape goat, enough said though.

Nice bait and switch, but let's stick to this millenium, please.
Quote:

While we are slinging insults why don't you change your sig to "fucking unknown" until you can figure out which damn college you want to claim or better yet actually graduate from.
That's rich...an alleged vet chastizing me for leaving college to serve my country....nice. Where'd you graudate from BTW?
And save me the "Heartbreak Hill" "Streets of Iraq" blather.

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post #40 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 07:50 PM
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It's You're, "teach."

[/b]
Harvard is a bastion of Conservatism now, eh?

Wow.
http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=352185
Ditto for the UKs Telegraph????
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...ixnewstop.html
Amazing....the VRWC is an all intrusive piece of work.
/[/b]
Cheney isn't using it as an election plank, unlike Hanoi John.

[/b]

Bush apologized publicly for poor choices. Kerry has not. You are the one in lala land.
[/b]

Nixon wasn't impeached.

[/b]
Nice bait and switch, but let's stick to this millenium, please.

That's rich...an alleged vet chastizing me for leaving college to serve my country....nice. Where'd you graudate from BTW?
And save me the "Heartbreak Hill" "Streets of Iraq" blather. [/B]
So he asked once to study abroad they said no and he went in. I do not see where that is any worse to not going to the war by way of National Guard or not going at all. Maybe he doesn't feel the need to apologize for what he felt and still does feel was saving americans lives. How many lives were lost in Vietnam for what? Tell me what was the good we did in Vietnam? The best thing that happened over there was getting our people out so they would stop getting killed. The history books say it, everyone knows it, Vietnam was horrible for us as a country and especially the generation that had to fight it. God bless those veterans.

I also remember most if not all of the college kids I was in charge of came in to pay off students loans. It's not that I don't respect your service time but ask yourself why you joined, it matters not to me. So please don't justify it just be honest to yourself.

As for college I hold a Bachelors of Science in History from Tarleton State University and will eventually complete my Masters in Admin from A&M Commerce.
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post #41 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 08:03 PM
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It isn't any worse....NOR IS IT ANY BETTER.
Yet, Kerry, and people like you, hold him up like he's so much better than Bush relating to Vietnam, but there is no difference....

I'm not gonna get into a debate over the would've/should've/could've s involving the Vietnam War...it's not relevant to this election, and it's just senseless.

I joined because I wanted to...same reason my brother did, my dad did, his dad, my mom's dad, and their dads...to serve my country, in whatever aspect I was needed.

Curious though...how do you commute from Grand Prairrie to Commerce?
That's quite a drive.......

I'll bite my tongue on my negative Tarleton State comments....I played ball there for a year, and after a yr in Stephenville, two alcohol related "offenses," and an incident with an RA's lil sister, it was time to get the hell out of Stephenville....after my attorney threatened to sue the school, it got ugly and, it was just not an atmospere conducive to accomplishing anything productive...left with a 3.75, but I was essentially "grounded" from any establushment on or off campus that had alcohol present, so......my social life was basically over.

Now, I do on occasion make it back there, usually after a drive in night in Granbury. I go check out Crocket Hall, grab a bite at Peacock's, take a scary ride out to McDowell's Hole, and top it off with a voyage into Dublin for a real Dr. Pepper.


Quote:
Originally posted by Pro Trash
So he asked once to study abroad they said no and he went in. I do not see where that is any worse to not going to the war by way of National Guard or not going at all. Maybe he doesn't feel the need to apologize for what he felt and still does feel was saving americans lives. How many lives were lost in Vietnam for what? Tell me what was the good we did in Vietnam? The best thing that happened over there was getting our people out so they would stop getting killed. The history books say it, everyone knows it, Vietnam was horrible for us as a country and especially the generation that had to fight it. God bless those veterans.

I also remember most if not all of the college kids I was in charge of came in to pay off students loans. It's not that I don't respect your service time but ask yourself why you joined, it matters not to me. So please don't justify it just be honest to yourself.

As for college I hold a Bachelors of Science in History from Tarleton State University and will eventually complete my Masters in Admin from A&M Commerce.

color=#606060]
Quote:
"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
Quote:
Mike Bickle

[



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post #42 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HookEm
It isn't any worse....NOR IS IT ANY BETTER.
Yet, Kerry, and people like you, hold him up like he's so much better than Bush relating to Vietnam, but there is no difference....

I'm not gonna get into a debate over the would've/should've/could've s involving the Vietnam War...it's not relevant to this election, and it's just senseless.

I joined because I wanted to...same reason my brother did, my dad did, his dad, my mom's dad, and their dads...to serve my country, in whatever aspect I was needed.

Curious though...how do you commute from Grand Prairrie to Commerce?
That's quite a drive.......

I'll bite my tongue on my negative Tarleton State comments....I played ball there for a year, and after a yr in Stephenville, two alcohol related "offenses," and an incident with an RA's lil sister, it was time to get the hell out of Stephenville....after my attorney threatened to sue the school, it got ugly and, it was just not an atmospere conducive to accomplishing anything productive...left with a 3.75, but I was essentially "grounded" from any establushment on or off campus that had alcohol present, so......my social life was basically over.

Now, I do on occasion make it back there, usually after a drive in night in Granbury. I go check out Crocket Hall, grab a bite at Peacock's, take a scary ride out to McDowell's Hole, and top it off with a voyage into Dublin for a real Dr. Pepper.
Great than that is settled, if Vietnam in your words "is not relevant to this election" what ever Bush and Kerry did during Vietnam is not relevant either. As for any kind of Negative comments about ole TSU, it's sounds like someone couldn't handle their alcohol.
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post #43 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 10:46 PM
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No, I took the fall for roommate...he was on a scholarship, so I took the fall for the first "bust." Didn't want him losing his 'ship...

The second time, it was a hot six pack, sitting in the corner of the closet.....i didnt even know the damn thing was there...had been there a month...roommate left it there after a fishing trip. Little rat basttard went to the dean and pinned it on me, and since I already HHAD one strike....it was easy to make the case for two.




Quote:
Originally posted by Pro Trash
Great than that is settled, if Vietnam in your words "is not relevant to this election" what ever Bush and Kerry did during Vietnam is not relevant either. As for any kind of Negative comments about ole TSU, it's sounds like someone couldn't handle their alcohol.

color=#606060]
Quote:
"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
Quote:
Mike Bickle

[



Sober By Grace Ministries: A Ministry of The James 2:26 Project
[size=1]Where New Beginnings Start
www.soberbygrace.org
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post #44 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-10-2004, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HookEm
No, I took the fall for roommate...he was on a scholarship, so I took the fall for the first "bust." Didn't want him losing his 'ship...

The second time, it was a hot six pack, sitting in the corner of the closet.....i didnt even know the damn thing was there...had been there a month...roommate left it there after a fishing trip. Little rat basttard went to the dean and pinned it on me, and since I already HHAD one strike....it was easy to make the case for two.
Then I extend my apology for previous comments made.
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post #45 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-13-2004, 11:35 AM
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Damn waddell.., protrash, ...91, or whatever you go by. I had no idea you had been embarassed in sooo many threads. I haven't even looked for the wadddell or ...91 threads, just the trash threads.

Haven't you noticed that you are pretty much alone on this little liberal escapade? I know you don't care but eventually I would have figured your pride would have kicked in and you would have retreated like a good soldier does when he is overmatched. I meant to say you are pretty much alone except, of course, for the occasional newbie who mysteriously appears and the disappears in some of your threads, imagine that. LOL

One
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If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
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I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
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post #46 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-13-2004, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 90 Notch
Damn waddell.., protrash, ...91, or whatever you go by. I had no idea you had been embarassed in sooo many threads. I haven't even looked for the wadddell or ...91 threads, just the trash threads.

Haven't you noticed that you are pretty much alone on this little liberal escapade? I know you don't care but eventually I would have figured your pride would have kicked in and you would have retreated like a good soldier does when he is overmatched. I meant to say you are pretty much alone except, of course, for the occasional newbie who mysteriously appears and the disappears in some of your threads, imagine that. LOL
If all you ever do is follow the masses you never learn anything really new. I am conservative more so than liberal in some ways. My question is, what fun is to set around and agree with everything the next guy says? It is after all much harder to stand alone at times than to join a wolfe pack.
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post #47 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-13-2004, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pro Trash
If all you ever do is follow the masses you never learn anything really new. I am conservative more so than liberal in some ways. My question is, what fun is to set around and agree with everything the next guy says? It is after all much harder to stand alone at times than to join a wolfe pack.
You make it sound like I have no independent thought. In reality, your liberal rhetoric is the epitome of someone who cannot come up with his own thoughts. By agreeing with one side instead of straddling a fence (//Pro Tarsh// I am conservative and liberal//Pro Trash) you leave open outs so that when you get fronted for the wishy washy thinker you are, you can backpedal.

Off topic some, but you talked about in one of your threads about entitlements or welfare. Have you ever heard the argument that welfare is actually racist or bigoted in nature?

One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America

If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
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post #48 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-13-2004, 12:44 PM
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Patient exhibits strong signs of attention seeking behavior, no?





Quote:
Originally posted by 90 Notch
Damn waddell.., protrash, ...91, or whatever you go by. I had no idea you had been embarassed in sooo many threads. I haven't even looked for the wadddell or ...91 threads, just the trash threads.

Haven't you noticed that you are pretty much alone on this little liberal escapade? I know you don't care but eventually I would have figured your pride would have kicked in and you would have retreated like a good soldier does when he is overmatched. I meant to say you are pretty much alone except, of course, for the occasional newbie who mysteriously appears and the disappears in some of your threads, imagine that. LOL

color=#606060]
Quote:
"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
Quote:
Mike Bickle

[



Sober By Grace Ministries: A Ministry of The James 2:26 Project
[size=1]Where New Beginnings Start
www.soberbygrace.org
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post #49 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-13-2004, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HookEm
Patient exhibits strong signs of attention seeking behavior, no?

Sorry, I can't agree with you. I have been accused by one of pro trash's identities, which are many, of being a follower.

One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America

If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
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post #50 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-13-2004, 12:55 PM
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Self Created minions....greatness.


Quote:
Originally posted by 90 Notch
Sorry, I can't agree with you. I have been accused by one of pro trash's identities, which are many, of being a follower.

color=#606060]
Quote:
"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
Quote:
Mike Bickle

[



Sober By Grace Ministries: A Ministry of The James 2:26 Project
[size=1]Where New Beginnings Start
www.soberbygrace.org
HookEm is offline  
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