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post #1 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-09-2004, 10:22 PM Thread Starter
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What is a Liberal?

I have a question for the group. What exactly is a liberal, i.e. is it someone who doesn't agree 100% with GW. Or can someone give me a better explanation. I have been going through the post and it seems like everyone's defense/response is "shut up you liberal"

Having been called one myself, and actually considering myself quite conservative, I am looking for an answer/defenition.
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post #2 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-10-2004, 09:02 AM
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"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of "liberalism" they will adopt EVERY fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened."

Norman Thomas (Former Socialist Presidential Candidate)


The tenets of modern liberalism, as derived from the Marxist/socialist headwaters, champion the absence of liberty, responsibility and initiative. Having abandoned the historical liberal principle of opposition to state interference in the affairs of individuals, neo-liberals now affirm a new political orthodoxy of protecting the weak and oppressed (as defined by neo-liberals) against the supposed evils of private interest and white majority through mechanisms of top-down state intervention, favoring collective remedies over individual ones.


ďWe have entered an Orwellian era in which entitlement replaces responsibility, coercion is described as compassion, compulsory redistribution is called sharing, race quotas substitute for diversity, and suicide is prescribed as 'death with dignity.' Political discourse has become completely corrupted. The reason is that if you tell people directly that you want to raise their taxes, transfer their wealth, count them by skin color, or let doctors kill them, most will object. Statists know this and therefore are obliged to obfuscate.Ē

Theodore Forstmann
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post #3 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-10-2004, 11:33 AM
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Liberal according to Dictionary.com!!



1. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.

2. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.

3. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.

4. Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.

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post #4 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-12-2004, 12:33 AM
 
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Liberal according to Dictionary.com!!



1. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.

2. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.

3. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.

4. Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.
Damn, i definitley fit under 1 and 2 because im not a bigot and i think this country should always be progressing and reforming to make this a better place to live. Fire away at calling me a Liberal!
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post #5 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-16-2004, 01:55 PM
 
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"What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label 'Liberal?' If by 'Liberal' they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer' s dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of 'Liberal.' But if by a 'Liberal' they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a 'Liberal,' then I' m proud to say I'm a 'Liberal.'"
- John F. Kennedy, September 14, 1960
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post #6 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-19-2004, 01:27 PM
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At the heart of liberalism is a naive belief that people are basically good. As a result of this belief, liberals rarely blame people for the evil they do. Instead, they blame economics, parents, capitalism, racism, and anything else that can let the individual off the hook. A second niave liberal belief is that because people are basically good, talking with people that do evil is always better than fighting, let alone killing, them. 'Negotiate with Sadaam,' 'Negotiate with the Soviets,' 'War never solves anything,' 'Think peace,' Visualize peace'. The liberal mind is filled with naive cliches about how to deal with evil. Indeed, the very use of the word 'evil' greatly disturbs liberals. It shakes up their child-like views of the world, that everybody is at heart a decent person who is either misunderstood or led to do unfortunate things by outside forces.

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post #7 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-19-2004, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 281R
'Negotiate with Sadaam,' 'Negotiate with the Soviets,' 'War never solves anything,' 'Think peace,' Visualize peace'. The liberal mind is filled with naive cliches about how to deal with evil. Indeed, the very use of the word 'evil' greatly disturbs liberals. It shakes up their child-like views of the world, that everybody is at heart a decent person who is either misunderstood or led to do unfortunate things by outside forces.
And how would you phrase the way we are dealing (or should I say, NOT DEALING!!!) with Mr. Bin Laden?

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post #8 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-19-2004, 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by black01gt
And how would you phrase the way we are dealing (or should I say, NOT DEALING!!!) with Mr. Bin Laden?
We are dealing with them all, put down the dick clarke book and go get read some credible sources.

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post #9 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-19-2004, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 281R
We are dealing with them all, put down the dick clarke book and go get read some credible sources.
I haven't read Dick Clarke's book. Don't need to. We've spent a lot of American lives and money to eliminate a mild threat while the "valid" threat is still looming larger and LARGER! If this is the "conservative" way, then no thanks! Truth is... national security is being traded for profits! What honor and valor amongst our national leaders!
Dick Clarke was their guy, until he grew some cajones and decided to put America first. There is no reason to trust anyone that disputes that, no matter how "conservative" they say they are.

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post #10 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-19-2004, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by black01gt
We've spent a lot of American lives and money to eliminate a mild threat while the "valid" threat is still looming larger and LARGER! If this is the "conservative" way, then no thanks! Truth is... national security is being traded for profits! What honor and valor amongst our national leaders!
Please give valid examples of your claim.

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post #11 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-19-2004, 05:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by 281R
At the heart of liberalism is a naive belief that people are basically good. As a result of this belief, liberals rarely blame people for the evil they do. Instead, they blame economics, parents, capitalism, racism, and anything else that can let the individual off the hook.
I dont understand your point arent all of these ideas created by people and individuals?
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post #12 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-19-2004, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DanielMc
I dont understand your point arent all of these ideas created by people and individuals?
No not all people, b/c most people understand that evil really exist in this world.

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Last edited by 281R; 04-19-2004 at 07:44 PM.
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post #13 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-19-2004, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 281R
Please give valid examples of your claim.
Bush relies on naivete and gullability. Ironically, not from libs, because he knows he's barking up the wrong tree, but from staunch conservative hardliners that will buy anything he says.
Bush sold us out! Since the supreme court elected him he has had an unwavering plan to invade Iraq. Not to liberate anyone. Not to find WMD, because he knew they weren't there.(he escalated his invasion plans when the inspectors began to report no WMD present!) His plan was to overthrow Hussain, plant Cheney's buddy Chalabre in power, give out a few crony contracts, and split up the worlds 2nd largest oil field. He's an oilman, that's it! Makes JR Ewing look decent.
Then came 911! At this point Bush has to make the only proper decision for the American ppl. Sure we go and make a showing in Afganistan for a while. Then Rummy decides that Afgan. doesn't have enough "primetime TV" targets, and the Iraq agenda is getting sidestepped. So..with N. Korea threatening to take out San Francisco, and Bin Laden laughing on tape and bragging how Alluh has blessed them with more American deaths than they had even planned on, Bush decides to take the bulk of our military and $Billions of our economy, and go liberate the Iraq ppl, or was it to find WMD? He couldn't seem to make up his mind. How does that make any sense, unless you're the one to benefit from it. Has Hussain's removal benefited you? He had to come up with a "scare tactic" to sell it to the Americans, because at that time we were still focused on the real target. In the 3 years since 911, I have seen the Americans go from the most focused, patriotic and united I have ever seen (remember all the Flags and anti-Bin Laden rhetoric), to the most divided I have ever seen. Why? Because we were forced to take a side. Either defend ourselves from serious terrorism, or blindly follow Bush with his personal agenda. Your libs don't seem to agree with him.
Household utilities are the highest they have ever been in history. The current trend is to "train" us to think $1.80 is quite a bargain for a gal. of gasoline. Point is, the less we make, the more it cost to live. At this rate, we'll be living in an "Aristocratic" nation before long.
You make liberals sound "weak" by nature. This "liberal weakling" says, get rid of this administration first, then put a few well placed MOAB bombs along the Afgan/Pakistan border to turn things in the proper direction for the future of AMERICA!!!
I think in November, you'll see how many Americans are tired of being "fleeced" by this administration.

Last edited by black01gt; 04-19-2004 at 09:21 PM.
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post #14 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-19-2004, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by black01gt
OK, you know me well enough by now 281R, that I'm not going to do a "term paper" with dates, quotes, ect., and this is my opinion for what it's worth, but here goes (long post alert).
You just need to quote the with "IMO" so I dont think or anybody else thinks you are calling it fact.
Quote:
Originally posted by black01gt

Bush's intention since the supreme court elected him has been to invade Iraq. Not to liberate anyone. Not to find WMD, because he knew they weren't there. But to overthrow Hussain, and plant Cheney's buddy Chalebe in power, to profit from the 2nd largest oil field in the world, plant a few crony contracts in place, and also to pay him back for threatening Daddy, even tho he had not really threatened the US.
This dosent even make since. If he wasnt goint liberate them, then why turn over power to them and make a democracy? If we were going to take their oil dont you think we would have already? besides most of our oil dosent come from there right... And also if anybody was wanting to steal the oil from the Iraqie people there is more likely the UN or the French w/ that illegal food scandel for oil with Sadaam while he just took the money to build him bigger palaces. See what happens whey you turn stuff over to the UN?
Quote:
Originally posted by black01gt

They honestly thought the Iraq ppl would be sticking flowers in our rifles, and welcome Chalebre with open arms after they had exiled him 20 yrs ago for embezzelment. Talk about naieve!
Being naieve is thinking that Iraq in a whole is against freedom and liberation. Let the small brutile part of Iraq go up in arms against the US and you think its the whole nation.
Quote:
Originally posted by black01gt

Now..on Sept.11,2001 Al Queda drew serious blood on the American ppl, on American soil.Time for our "leader" to make the only proper decision! Because of this I have seen the American society go from the most patriotic and unite
And Bush is the first president to do something about it. (or did you forget that clinton, after many attacks, seized to do anything.)

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post #15 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-19-2004, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 281R
At the heart of liberalism is a naive belief that people are basically good. As a result of this belief, liberals rarely blame people for the evil they do. Instead, they blame economics, parents, capitalism, racism, and anything else that can let the individual off the hook. A second niave liberal belief is that because people are basically good, talking with people that do evil is always better than fighting, let alone killing, them. 'Negotiate with Sadaam,' 'Negotiate with the Soviets,' 'War never solves anything,' 'Think peace,' Visualize peace'. The liberal mind is filled with naive cliches about how to deal with evil. Indeed, the very use of the word 'evil' greatly disturbs liberals. It shakes up their child-like views of the world, that everybody is at heart a decent person who is either misunderstood or led to do unfortunate things by outside forces.

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post #16 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-20-2004, 12:27 AM
 
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Originally posted by 281R
No not all people, b/c most people understand that evil really exist in this world.
i consider myself a moderate liberal. therefore i think your definition of a liberal is the same as me saying all conservatives are fascist. do i think that? no. i do not think that we should always negotiate without going to war. i love history and i can count off several instances when war was inevitable including the war within our nation in the 1860's. i wrote a term paper on whether or not we should have dropped the bomb on hiroshima and decided it was inevitable. i think that the exsistance of evil is inevitable just as the exsistance of good to fight evil is. Furthermore, i think your definition basically states that "libs" like to attack ideologies like economics IE policies as much as they like to attack individuals. How does stating my opinion of what is wrong with certain ideologies get me off the hook? I dont think it does nor do i want it to

Basically what im trying to say is :
Im the walking, breathing, learning, VOTING FALSITY of your definition
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post #17 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-20-2004, 09:18 AM
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Originally posted by DanielMc
i consider myself a moderate liberal. therefore i think your definition of a liberal is the same as me saying all conservatives are fascist.
No fascist would be liberal too, b/c liberals want big government and more social programs.
Quote:
Originally posted by DanielMc

do i think that? no. i do not think that we should always negotiate without going to war. i love history and i can count off several instances when war was inevitable including the war within our nation in the 1860's. i wrote a term paper on whether or not we should have dropped the bomb on hiroshima and decided it was inevitable. i think that the exsistance of evil is inevitable just as the exsistance of good to fight evil is. Furthermore, i think your definition basically states that "libs" like to attack ideologies like economics IE policies as much as they like to attack individuals. How does stating my opinion of what is wrong with certain ideologies get me off the hook? I dont think it does nor do i want it to

Basically what im trying to say is :
Im the walking, breathing, learning, VOTING FALSITY of your definition
If it helps you out, Bush went to the UN first to discuss what he and the rest of the world saw as a threat (Sadaam). And after how many resolutions sadaam still refused to cooperate with UN inspectors? (obviously he was hiding something) Bush with the knowledged at had knew he had to do something, and war obviously was his last choice. If Sadaam would have WMD, (which he very well could have even still b/c we dont know what happend to them) and years down the line the US suffered another attack and we found out that the weapons to Alqueda were supplied by Sadaam, then what? the libs would be all over Bush that he didnt do anything. And then John Kerry would say "see, I told ya Sadaam had WMDs, I told ya". This whole war has just been politicized by the Democratic pary. Yet I hear left and right, "Bush is a liar and he lied to us" and yet not one Lib or Dem can back it up. So I am saying this to all you liberals, if you are saying that Bush lied and knew Sadaam didnt have WMD before we went in than I am calling you a liar for making false propaganda. You are the liars if you continue to spread false claims with out any proof to back it up.

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post #18 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-20-2004, 11:43 AM
 
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Originally posted by 281R
No fascist would be liberal too, b/c liberals want big government and more social programs.
If it helps you out, Bush went to the UN first to discuss what he and the rest of the world saw as a threat (Sadaam). And after how many resolutions sadaam still refused to cooperate with UN inspectors? (obviously he was hiding something) Bush with the knowledged at had knew he had to do something, and war obviously was his last choice. If Sadaam would have WMD, (which he very well could have even still b/c we dont know what happend to them) and years down the line the US suffered another attack and we found out that the weapons to Alqueda were supplied by Sadaam, then what? the libs would be all over Bush that he didnt do anything. And then John Kerry would say "see, I told ya Sadaam had WMDs, I told ya". This whole war has just been politicized by the Democratic pary. Yet I hear left and right, "Bush is a liar and he lied to us" and yet not one Lib or Dem can back it up. So I am saying this to all you liberals, if you are saying that Bush lied and knew Sadaam didnt have WMD before we went in than I am calling you a liar for making false propaganda. You are the liars if you continue to spread false claims with out any proof to back it up.
I was not saying that libs are fascist i was saying that you definition of a lib is the same as me stereotyping conservatives as fascist.

You went off on the war and i do not know why? what have i said in my previous post to "spread false propoganda"? I havent. therefore i prove your definition of libs as false. Thats what i was trying to say in my previous post. You say "If Sadaam would have WMD, (which he very well could have even still b/c we dont know what happend to them)" if this is the case, which it seems pretty apparent it is because i agree with you in that i think it was apparent saddam was hiding something, then what has the war done to protect the people other than move these WMD's to another location? All i want is for bush to come home with what he set out for and promised was there, im holding him accountable. I believe that saddam was inherently evil, and i was 100% open minded at the onset of this war, and i am still. But i am also going to hold the president accountable.

I do not take issue with you view of politics as much as your radical stereotype not definition of liberals. I knolw what all stereotypes have some basis of truth but to accept them as 100% truth is naive. I am a liberal, i will not cower to you calling me one but like i said before, im a walking falsity of your radical view of liberalism.
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post #19 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-20-2004, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DanielMc
I was not saying that libs are fascist i was saying that you definition of a lib is the same as me stereotyping conservatives as fascist.

You went off on the war and i do not know why? what have i said in my previous post to "spread false propoganda"? I havent. therefore i prove your definition of libs as false. Thats what i was trying to say in my previous post. You say "If Sadaam would have WMD, (which he very well could have even still b/c we dont know what happend to them)" if this is the case, which it seems pretty apparent it is because i agree with you in that i think it was apparent saddam was hiding something, then what has the war done to protect the people other than move these WMD's to another location? All i want is for bush to come home with what he set out for and promised was there, im holding him accountable. I believe that saddam was inherently evil, and i was 100% open minded at the onset of this war, and i am still. But i am also going to hold the president accountable.

I do not take issue with you view of politics as much as your radical stereotype not definition of liberals. I knolw what all stereotypes have some basis of truth but to accept them as 100% truth is naive. I am a liberal, i will not cower to you calling me one but like i said before, im a walking falsity of your radical view of liberalism.
Im sorry, its wasnt really intended to for you b/c I really dont have a clue what your views are. It was mainly intended for Black01gt. What I gave you above was simply a definition of a liberal from a conservative perspective. I know if given from a liberal the definition would be possibly different, but from the truth that I know that is how or what I think a liberal is. That simple

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post #20 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-20-2004, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 281R
Im sorry, its wasnt really intended to for you b/c I really dont have a clue what your views are. It was mainly intended for Black01gt. What I gave you above was simply a definition of a liberal from a conservative perspective. I know if given from a liberal the definition would be possibly different, but from the truth that I know that is how or what I think a liberal is. That simple
If it was intended for me, then why did you quote another post, then reply to it? You obviously don't have a clue what my views are either. If you are refering to me as a "naieve, child like, lib rarely blaming people for the evil they do, then you may be reading my posts, but it just isn't sinking in. I don't believe everybody is at heart a decent person who is led to do unfortunate things by outside forces. Some are just downright evil and that's all there is to it, but sometimes so dumb that they are led by outside forces. But that doesn't mean that I'm looking for a way to "let them off the hook", at all! The first that come to mind are, Bin Laden, BUSH, and Hussain. I don't care what happens to Hussain because he is not a threat. I do however (as I have pointed out in several post) think that America is caught between the first two. Bin Laden seems focused on taking care of Bush and his country, but Bush, in his own words is "not concerned about Bin Laden".
IMO:
1)If the Iraq people can't obtain their freedom at this point (with minimal help from the US or UN), then they just don't want it bad enough.
Why should we want their freedom more than they do?
2)Bush had better get concerned because there will be another strike on American soil. Al Queda has 3 737's that they hijacked from Africa and are just waiting to use em, along with other surprises. Pls spare me details about how protected we are. We're not!
3)You can talk all day about how great the economy is, but the truth is the middle class of America is being pulled apart at the seams by higher and higher cost of living, while in the middle of a jobless crisis.
In short (too late for that I guess), this Prez couldn't manage a 7-11, let alone a world crisis, that he creates more of every day!
If this is a naieve, liberal sounding belief to you, then so be it. Call me a liberal, but I prefer "Radical"!

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post #21 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-20-2004, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by black01gt
If it was intended for me, then why did you quote another post, then reply to it? You obviously don't have a clue what my views are either. If you are refering to me as a "naieve, child like, lib rarely blaming people for the evil they do, then you may be reading my posts, but it just isn't sinking in.
I reply b/c I have 4 pages of your post to get a very good idea of what your views are and they are based on assumptions and lies.
Quote:
Originally posted by black01gt

I don't believe everybody is at heart a decent person who is led to do unfortunate things by outside forces. Some are just downright evil and that's all there is to it, but sometimes so dumb that they are led by outside forces. But that doesn't mean that I'm looking for a way to "let them off the hook", at all!
So thats why you would support a guy that would? hint,,, cough,,, cough John Kerry
Quote:
Originally posted by black01gt

The first that come to mind are, Bin Laden, BUSH, and Hussain. I don't care what happens to Hussain because he is not a threat. I do however (as I have pointed out in several post) think that America is caught between the first two. Bin Laden seems focused on taking care of Bush and his country, but Bush, in his own words is "not concerned about Bin Laden".
IMO:
Of coarse Sadaam isnt a threat anymore, he's captured!
Quote:
Originally posted by black01gt

1)If the Iraq people can't obtain their freedom at this point (with minimal help from the US or UN), then they just don't want it bad enough.
So now your speaking for the people of Iraq? Now thats a naieve comment at its best...
Quote:
Originally posted by black01gt

Why should we want their freedom more than they do?
And another naieve comment
Quote:
Originally posted by black01gt

2)Bush had better get concerned because there will be another strike on American soil. Al Queda has 3 737's that they hijacked from Africa and are just waiting to use em, along with other surprises. Pls spare me details about how protected we are. We're not!
Im sure Bush is just sitting back getting it on with his intern while the terrorist are attacking, oh wait, that was clinton..
Quote:
Originally posted by black01gt

3)You can talk all day about how great the economy is, but the truth is the middle class of America is being pulled apart at the seams by higher and higher cost of living, while in the middle of a jobless crisis.
So are you all talk or can you back this up with facts? or is this just hear say? Last time I read the newspaper the economy was on a rebound and jobless rates were at the lowest in how long? go look it up....
Quote:
Originally posted by black01gt

In short (too late for that I guess), this Prez couldn't manage a 7-11, let alone a world crisis, that he creates more of every day!
The only crisis that is happening is the one in your head

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Last edited by 281R; 04-21-2004 at 09:02 AM.
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post #22 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 11:01 AM
 
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Originally posted by 281R
I reply b/c I have 4 pages of your post to get a very good idea of what your views are and they are based on assumptions and lies.

So now your speaking for the people of Iraq? Now thats a naieve comment at its best...

And another naieve comment

The only crisis that is happening is the one in your head
If you happen to believe the information coming from the Bush administration.... then your own views are based upon assumptions and lies as well.

281r, your arguments lack civility and respect. Your endless list of naieve political comments riddle this board too.

Last edited by RidinSpinnas; 04-21-2004 at 11:05 AM.
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post #23 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 11:21 AM
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If you happen to believe the information coming from the Bush administration.... then your own views are based upon assumptions and lies as well.
Have you yet to see any of my information come from the Bush administration? Then what make you think it did?
Quote:
Originally posted by RidinSpinnas

281r, your arguments lack civility and respect. Your endless list of naieve political comments riddle this board too.
I cant say Im perfect and it could be possible some of my opinions may or could be naieve, but who are you to judge? Can you argue with proof differently? If you want to talk about civilty or respect, maybe I should go take a lesson from John Kerry and throw my medals over the fence, or use the "F" word in political speaches. Or maybe I should go take a lesson from Howard Dean, Ted Kennedy, or Al Gore? or maybe Bill Clinton? could learn how to respect my interns. Bush at civility and respect owns all of you libs. I wish I had the patience and leadership Bush has b/c believe me as of today I couldnt take all the whining and complaining of you libs when he is out for your best interest in my opinion.

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Last edited by 281R; 04-21-2004 at 11:37 AM.
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post #24 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 11:49 AM
 
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*Have you yet to see any of my information come from the Bush administration? Then what make you think it did?

Anything that you learn about policy, the election, the war, or otherwise has been filtered through the bush administration and even further so through their media. (i.e. clear channel) I'm sure you might have heard some of this.


*I cant say Im perfect and it could be possible some of my opinions may or could be naieve, but who are you to judge?

I'm just the same as you are my friend. An American with a strong opinion. ditto

* I wish I had the patience and leadership Bush has b/c believe me as of today I couldnt take all the whining and complaining of you libs when he is out for your best interest in my opinion.

My best interests!?! Unless I am the CEO of an oil-associated company making huge amounts of money (which put me in the highest tax bracket I might add) and I pour money into my president to have favorable policies made for me, not you, then NO he does not have my best interestes in mind.
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post #25 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RidinSpinnas
*Have you yet to see any of my information come from the Bush administration? Then what make you think it did?

Anything that you learn about policy, the election, the war, or otherwise has been filtered through the bush administration and even further so through their media. (i.e. clear channel) I'm sure you might have heard some of this.


*I cant say Im perfect and it could be possible some of my opinions may or could be naieve, but who are you to judge?

I'm just the same as you are my friend. An American with a strong opinion. ditto

* I wish I had the patience and leadership Bush has b/c believe me as of today I couldnt take all the whining and complaining of you libs when he is out for your best interest in my opinion.

My best interests!?! Unless I am the CEO of an oil-associated company making huge amounts of money (which put me in the highest tax bracket I might add) and I pour money into my president to have favorable policies made for me, not you, then NO he does not have my best interestes in mind.
I can respect your opinions, but taking more money from the rich I believe is not the moral and right answer. Taxing more from the rich (which they already pay what like 40% of their income, is that correct?) is not just, fair and plain out stealing. Im not rich, but in America each and every person you have the right to try to get there, and not worry about paying the work load of the government socialist programs. IMO

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post #26 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 12:21 PM
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i must say, i agree with 281r on everything he says, it reminds me of listening to rush lol

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post #27 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 281R

Im sure Bush is just sitting back getting it on with his intern while the terrorist are attacking, oh wait, that was clinton..
So are you all talk or can you back this up with facts? or is this just hear say? Last time I read the newspaper the economy was on a rebound and jobless rates were at the lowest in how long? go look it up....
The only crisis that is happening is the one in your head
Tired, Tired, Tired....If the best you have is six/seven year old "Clinton Crap", then who is being naieve now?
Don't need to look it up. You just told me you "read it in the newspaper".
The world sure seems to be stirred up over the "crisis in MY head".

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post #28 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 01:57 PM
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If you have ever favored change just for the sake of change....(ie no good reason), then you might be a liberal.

In modern terms, a liberal is a person with hippocritical ideals, blunt ignorance to fact, and views that lean to the extreme left. They are quick to make dramatic overgeneralizations and blindly support their leaders.

For example:

A liberal would gripe about how SUV's are causing global warming, all while driving 80 mph in their Escalade.

A liberal would give a speech stating that the internal combustion engine is destroying the enviroment, while his carpool of 15 Vans, SUV's, and limo's sits idling waiting to take him to his private plane....(Al Gore).

A liberal would complain about the testing of cosmetics and medicines on animals, but if their health was at risk they would not hesitate to take a pill that had animal trials.

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post #29 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 02:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by x_redhotcobra_x
i must say, i agree with 281r on everything he says, it reminds me of listening to rush lol
my thoughts exactly..... sounds like some limbaugh blotter....

I'm am sick of people listening to conservative radio and then going around and spouting the crap like it was from God himself. Well, if Rush or O' Reilly..... said it, then it must be true and that's how it is. Period. They are quick to dismiss a liberal show as being opinionated and full of crazy ideas when they don't realize what it is that THEY are listening to. Do your own research, get it from as many sources as possible, look at both sides, then make an opinion. Don't be a pawn....

281r, these comments are not addressed towards you.
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post #30 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by black01gt
Tired, Tired, Tired....If the best you have is six/seven year old "Clinton Crap", then who is being naieve now?
Clinton has got a quite a few questions to answer IMO, Bush was only in office was it? 233 days, and Clinton was in the office for 8 years while terrorist attacks were happening.

Quote:
Originally posted by black01gt

Don't need to look it up. You just told me you "read it in the newspaper".
Well, why would you want to take my word on it? I could be lying... j/k

Quote:
Originally posted by black01gt

The world sure seems to be stirred up over the "crisis in MY head".
LOL, its all in good debating fun. You know that if I saw you in public I'd shake your hand or at least sit at the same table with you. Unless there is a real good reason I shouldnt j/k

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post #31 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by black01gt
Bush relies on naivete and gullability. Ironically, not from libs, because he knows he's barking up the wrong tree, but from staunch conservative hardliners that will buy anything he says.
Bush sold us out! Since the supreme court elected him he has had an unwavering plan to invade Iraq. Not to liberate anyone. Not to find WMD, because he knew they weren't there.(he escalated his invasion plans when the inspectors began to report no WMD present!) His plan was to overthrow Hussain, plant Cheney's buddy Chalabre in power, give out a few crony contracts, and split up the worlds 2nd largest oil field. He's an oilman, that's it! Makes JR Ewing look decent.
Then came 911! At this point Bush has to make the only proper decision for the American ppl. Sure we go and make a showing in Afganistan for a while. Then Rummy decides that Afgan. doesn't have enough "primetime TV" targets, and the Iraq agenda is getting sidestepped. So..with N. Korea threatening to take out San Francisco, and Bin Laden laughing on tape and bragging how Alluh has blessed them with more American deaths than they had even planned on, Bush decides to take the bulk of our military and $Billions of our economy, and go liberate the Iraq ppl, or was it to find WMD? He couldn't seem to make up his mind. How does that make any sense, unless you're the one to benefit from it. Has Hussain's removal benefited you? He had to come up with a "scare tactic" to sell it to the Americans, because at that time we were still focused on the real target. In the 3 years since 911, I have seen the Americans go from the most focused, patriotic and united I have ever seen (remember all the Flags and anti-Bin Laden rhetoric), to the most divided I have ever seen. Why? Because we were forced to take a side. Either defend ourselves from serious terrorism, or blindly follow Bush with his personal agenda. Your libs don't seem to agree with him.
Household utilities are the highest they have ever been in history. The current trend is to "train" us to think $1.80 is quite a bargain for a gal. of gasoline. Point is, the less we make, the more it cost to live. At this rate, we'll be living in an "Aristocratic" nation before long.
You make liberals sound "weak" by nature. This "liberal weakling" says, get rid of this administration first, then put a few well placed MOAB bombs along the Afgan/Pakistan border to turn things in the proper direction for the future of AMERICA!!!
I think in November, you'll see how many Americans are tired of being "fleeced" by this administration.

APPLAUD THAT MAN!!!...i couldnt say it any better myself...anyone want actual quotes or claims that bush's and his admin have been doing a bad job w/their lying needs to go on MOVEON.ORG

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post #32 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DbonezNY
APPLAUD THAT MAN!!!...i couldnt say it any better myself...anyone want actual quotes or claims that bush's and his admin have been doing a bad job w/their lying needs to go on MOVEON.ORG
do you mean MORON.ORG? or you could just watch CNN (Clinton News Network) all day long. BWHAHAHA, either way, you'll get the same brain washing effect..

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post #33 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RidinSpinnas
my thoughts exactly..... sounds like some limbaugh blotter....

I'm am sick of people listening to conservative radio and then going around and spouting the crap like it was from God himself. Well, if Rush or O' Reilly..... said it, then it must be true and that's how it is. Period. They are quick to dismiss a liberal show as being opinionated and full of crazy ideas when they don't realize what it is that THEY are listening to. Do your own research, get it from as many sources as possible, look at both sides, then make an opinion. Don't be a pawn....

281r, these comments are not addressed towards you.
i do get both sides, especially in my politcal science class and i must say, rush and o'reilly appear to be more accurate when presenting the facts. this is what amuses me most of the time, the libracrits say the people like rush or o'reilly are wrong, the libs just hate it when people point out their flaws. you may not agree with me or rush and so forth, but most of the time, the conservatives are right (pardon the pun) imo.

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post #34 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 04:40 PM
 
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Originally posted by x_redhotcobra_x
i do get both sides, especially in my politcal science class and i must say, rush and o'reilly appear to be more accurate when presenting the facts. this is what amuses me most of the time, the libracrits say the people like rush or o'reilly are wrong, the libs just hate it when people point out their flaws. you may not agree with me or rush and so forth, but most of the time, the conservatives are right (pardon the pun) imo.
I like how you say the conservatives are right then put in your opinion If theres a right and a wrong why does an opinion have to be thrown in there?
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post #35 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 04:43 PM
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I like how you say the conservatives are right then put in your opinion If theres a right and a wrong why does an opinion have to be thrown in there?
because i find their platform to be right. i know people wont agree with me, so thats why i added the "imo" part.

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post #36 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 04:50 PM
 
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because i find their platform to be right. i know people wont agree with me, so thats why i added the "imo" part.
then tell them they're wrong, dont say they just disagree with you
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post #37 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 05:01 PM
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I like how you say the conservatives are right then put in your opinion If theres a right and a wrong why does an opinion have to be thrown in there?
because political debates are based on opinons. I may paint a picture of a boat and ask two people what it is. One might say its a (fill in the blank). The other will say its a boat. Who is right? the second person, but both judgements were made by opinions. Ya get it?

Last edited by 281R; 04-21-2004 at 05:03 PM.
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post #38 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 05:09 PM
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then tell them they're wrong, dont say they just disagree with you
lol, I do tell the libs that in my poli sci class, even when I directly point out where they are wrong. Generally speaking, they come back with responses like "well, I disagree with you." after that, I am labeled as a bigot ex: the same sex marriage deal, I tell them that the origin of a traditional marriage is a religious union between one man and one woman. I say, marriage predates the law and the constitution, all the law does is regulate it. We know the major religions oppose homosexuality thus marriage must be for man and woman, same sex couples can have their civil unions if they want, but donít call it marriage. I ask them stuff like where are many marriages held? Churches I say, notice when the preacher says stuff like "in holy matrimony," "through sickness and hell," stuff along those lines, if thatís not religious, I donít know what is. Now the Iraq conflict stuff, thatís another long story I have with the libs in the class. I cite specific examples on why ousting saddam and the ba'ath regime was necessary, they hate me because I point out the facts and then come up with my "own" logic to support the facts. From what Iím observing, they hate facts. Oh yeah, according to them, I am part of the ďvast right-wing conspiracyĒ lol. I just agree with them for the hell of it on that note.

Iím not flaming at you, just citing my experiences

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post #39 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 05:19 PM
 
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Originally posted by x_redhotcobra_x
lol, I do tell the libs that in my poli sci class, even when I directly point out where they are wrong. Generally speaking, they come back with responses like "well, I disagree with you." after that, I am labeled as a bigot ex: the same sex marriage deal, I tell them that the origin of a traditional marriage is a religious union between one man and one woman. I say, marriage predates the law and the constitution, all the law does is regulate it. We know the major religions oppose homosexuality thus marriage must be for man and woman, same sex couples can have their civil unions if they want, but donít call it marriage. I ask them stuff like where are many marriages held? Churches I say, notice when the preacher says stuff like "in holy matrimony," "through sickness and hell," stuff along those lines, if thatís not religious, I donít know what is. Now the Iraq conflict stuff, thatís another long story I have with the libs in the class. I cite specific examples on why ousting saddam and the ba'ath regime was necessary, they hate me because I point out the facts and then come up with my "own" logic to support the facts. From what Iím observing, they hate facts. Oh yeah, according to them, I am part of the ďvast right-wing conspiracyĒ lol. I just agree with them for the hell of it on that note.

Iím not flaming at you, just citing my experiences
I just like to point out that Kerry takes the SAME EXACT stance on gay marriage as you. He states that to give the rights guranteed by the constitutuion is one thing, but the labeling of marriage is a devine religious label. I think it the same way. I commend you for drawing you own conclusions, but i have tons of friends up at A&M that swear by bush but when you ask them why,you only get a blank face and a studdered sentence that often ends with "i just like him".
I'm just saying that if im gonna tell you that a "boat" is a "boat" ,as 281r gave the example, im gonna make damn sure well its a boat before i tell you im right and your wrong. Im not gonan tell you you are wrong if its just an opinion, im gonna state that i disagree with you. Theres a huge difference.
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post #40 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 05:28 PM
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I just like to point out that Kerry takes the SAME EXACT stance on gay marriage as you. He states that to give the rights guranteed by the constitutuion is one thing, but the labeling of marriage is a devine religious label. I think it the same way. I commend you for drawing you own conclusions, but i have tons of friends up at A&M that swear by bush but when you ask them why,you only get a blank face and a studdered sentence that often ends with "i just like him".
I'm just saying that if im gonna tell you that a "boat" is a "boat" ,as 281r gave the example, im gonna make damn sure well its a boat before i tell you im right and your wrong. Im not gonan tell you you are wrong if its just an opinion, im gonna state that i disagree with you. Theres a huge difference.
here is the thing though, i didn't say "all" of my arguments for opposing same sex marriage, just some of it. the civil unions stuff comes from the argument when people refer to this amendment as a "constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage," i correct them by saying this is an amendment to "define" marriage. you can't ban something that does not exist in the constitution. i tell them if you can, please explain. this amendment is suppose to stop activist judges from legislating from the benches. therefore, i support bush endorsing this amendment. you cant stop civil unions or domestic partnerships or whatever you want to call it, just leave the marriage for man and woman.

i have some more arguments on this topic, but i think you know where i mostly come from.

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post #41 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 05:32 PM
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also, heres john kerry saying hes against gay marriages, but he is also against a constitutional amendment defining marriage. let me point out that a constitutional amendment makes it highly unlikely of there being a thing such as gay marriage even with activist judges (there will be civil unions, but not gay marriages). however, if there is no constitutional amendment, the issue remains volatile and mobile. what has john kerry politcally done with his position on this issue? the answer is obvious, clearly he wants try to gain some conservative votes and get the support of the gay community at the same time. i think the trouble hes going to have is that people on the conservative side will truly see that this is a minipulation of words and his "true" liberal position of supporting gay marriage will be obvious to all.

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post #42 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by 281R

LOL, its all in good debating fun. You know that if I saw you in public I'd shake your hand or at least sit at the same table with you. Unless there is a real good reason I shouldnt j/k [/B]
Unless civil war breaks out first,LOL, I see no reason at all why we couldn't sit at a table, argue like hell for hours, then split the beer tab, shake hands again and go home, fully respecting each other!

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post #43 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 10:52 PM
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Originally posted by 281R
do you mean MORON.ORG? or you could just watch CNN (Clinton News Network) all day long. BWHAHAHA, either way, you'll get the same brain washing effect..

Why exactly is CNN the clinton network? bkuz they tell whats going on and doesnt exactly favor that man you call a president?

Moron.org...yeh i guess... People like them that have a program where people donate there frequent flyer miles to soliders that need/want to get home from iraq for a weekend or a week is filled with morons huh. Got any Rep. websites offering the same???

Iraq is such a threat bkuz they didnt want to reveal if they have WMD so we attacked them and havent found shyte so far...but N. Korea pretty much told us to go fawk ourselves because they do have WMD and will continue to produce them no matter what bush says is left off to the side so he can "discuss" what to do about them. If thats not a "clear" and present danger then i dont know what to tell you.

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post #44 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 11:36 PM
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Iraq is such a threat bkuz they didnt want to reveal if they have WMD so we attacked them and havent found shyte so far...but N. Korea pretty much told us to go fawk ourselves because they do have WMD and will continue to produce them no matter what bush says is left off to the side so he can "discuss" what to do about them. If thats not a "clear" and present danger then i dont know what to tell you.

GHEY
Ousting saddam and the ba'ath regime is "part" of the war on terror. The whole allied intelligence community, international community and the previous presidency believed Saddam was a grave threat to the world. Dr. David Kay said in his congressional hearing during the first quarter of 2004 that based on the intelligence they had at the time in October and November of 2002, one had to conclude WMD's were in Iraq. In the past month, former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright was interviewed saying that she and other members of the previous administration thought Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. Even the Chief U.N. weapons inspector Hans Blix has made several news station appearances saying he and the international community were convinced that Saddam had forbidden WMDís because of the way he was acting.

Do you really think this conflict is only over WMD's? If so, I'd do some more research. I could go one for awhile about this, but in the mean time, i'll post some links up about the WMD stuff.

this should make you wonder what else saddam was hidding when he was in power.
http://www.snopes.com/photos/military/sandplanes.asp

If you are still are not convinced they were hiding stuff, check out colin powels U.N. briefing last feb.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story...889531,00.html

"The lethal chemicals were stored in drums and the
bunkers were air-conditioned. But there were also
artillery shells and 122-millimetre rockets armed with
chemicals."
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...?from=storyrhs

The only question is, where are they. I bet Syria had something to do with helping the Iraqis decieve the inspectors. We know Saddam had them, he used them in 88 when he gased 5000 kurds.

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post #45 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 11:40 PM
 
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Originally posted by DbonezNY
Why exactly is CNN the clinton network? bkuz they tell whats going on and doesnt exactly favor that man you call a president?

Moron.org...yeh i guess... People like them that have a program where people donate there frequent flyer miles to soliders that need/want to get home from iraq for a weekend or a week is filled with morons huh. Got any Rep. websites offering the same???

Iraq is such a threat bkuz they didnt want to reveal if they have WMD so we attacked them and havent found shyte so far...but N. Korea pretty much told us to go fawk ourselves because they do have WMD and will continue to produce them no matter what bush says is left off to the side so he can "discuss" what to do about them. If thats not a "clear" and present danger then i dont know what to tell you.

GHEY
I believe all North Korea has is weapons grade plutonium, which they claim to be using for energy purposes. To say they told the US to "fawk ourselves" and they do have WMD's is a little different from them having weapons grade plutonium. Yes the capability to make nuclear bombs is a threat, but to act like they are some rogue country thats getting wasted around thier big red button while throwing an F U america party is a little assenine. This coming the furthest away from a bush backer as possible

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post #46 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-22-2004, 09:03 AM
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Why exactly is CNN the clinton network? bkuz they tell whats going on and doesnt exactly favor that man you call a president?
Joke, haha... b/c they dont tell the truth nor seek the truth, they only show whats on their agenda. News like these is why Kerry has gotten a free ride since he entered the race for the presidency.
Quote:
Originally posted by DbonezNY

Moron.org...yeh i guess... People like them that have a program where people donate there frequent flyer miles to soliders that need/want to get home from iraq for a weekend or a week is filled with morons huh. Got any Rep. websites offering the same???
Yes, any group or site that is going to run flyers compairing Bush to Hitler is a bunch of morons.
Quote:
Originally posted by DbonezNY

Iraq is such a threat bkuz they didnt want to reveal if they have WMD so we attacked them and havent found shyte so far...
And how long have we been in there? 1 year... Let me go find a small truck and fill it with weapons hide it in California, then let out a few 1000 anti US protestors armed with guns, rocket launchers, etc... and then see if you can find it any faster. The question is not "Did he have them?" the question is "Where did they go?".

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Last edited by 281R; 04-22-2004 at 09:05 AM.
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post #47 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-22-2004, 09:39 AM
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CNN Reporter: Hello, I'm CNN correspondent Wolf Streisand, live on the wild streets of Baghdad where lawlessness reigns, security is non-existant, chaos is the order of the day, the situation is steadily worsening....

Camera Man: Wolf, Wolf, we're going to have to cut & take it from the top. There's an Iraqi policeman standing behind you in the shot. We'll have to wait for him to move if...

CNN Reporter: Let's just do this later. I want to do some man on the street interviews anyway.

Camera Man: Ok, just ask anybody, how about that guy...

CNN Reporter: Excuse me sir, what do you think about the American occupiers?

Iraqi Man #1: Me? Am I going to be on television? Oh, thank God for America and Bush! Saddam's men tortured me and...

CNN Reporter: Ok, Ok, thank you very much, move along. You sir, what do you think of American occupiers? Has it been rough since Saddam fell?

Iraqi Man #2: Saddam? I can't wait until they get Saddam! I don't care what anyone else says, Americans must stay and help the Iraqi people and...

CNN Reporter: Thank you very much sir, move along.

Camera Man: Are we using any of this?

CNN Reporter: No, of course not. You, sir, how has the American occupation going in your opinion?

Iraqi Man #3: The power has been off too much and there are American troops everywhere! They should get out of Iraq! Iraq is for Iraqis!

CNN Reporter: Thank you for your time sir. Keep that, that's good footage!

Iraqi Man #1: Hey, excuse me, but that man you were just talking to was a member of the Baath party and he...

CNN Reporter: Yes, yes, your country's internal politics are very interesting to us, thank you for your concern.

Iraqi Man #1: Yes, but...

CNN Reporter: Security! Security! I feel threatened! Get him away from me! (Security hustles the man away). Now see, this is why I usually just interview whoever happens to be standing in front of the hotel. This is a dangerous country!

Camera Man: Uh....

CNN Reporter: Ok, we need to do an update on the lack of progress in Iraq, ya know, talk about the constantly worsening security situation, native unrest, that sort of thing...

Camera Man: We've been saying the situation is "constantly worsening" since about 5 minutes after they pulled down that statue of Saddam. I mean we'd practically have to see alien mantis people walking down the street, kicking in doors, pulling out small children, and eating them in the street for things to have been "constantly worsening" for that long...

CNN Reporter: Hey, hey, you let me worry about that. That's why I write the copy and you just shoot the pictures. Let's hurry up and get this done. I don't like the looks of those kids over there....

Camera Man: They're little girls, they've been trying to give us flowers for half an hour. Just listen to them....

Little Girls: Bush Good! Bush Good! Thank you America!

CNN Reporter: Ugh, they're giving me the creeps. I mean "Bush Good"! Come on, who actually says that?

Camera Man: I've heard it about 50 times since we got back into Iraq last week...

CNN Reporter: Yeah right! It sounds like an Al-Qaeda trap to me! Security, get rid of the Iraqi girls!

Security: Let me see if I understand this, you want me to run off a bunch of little girls who want to give you flowers? You are -- let's see, what is the American word for it -- a "[email protected]"! I quit! I'm leaving (walks away)

CNN Reporter: You see how hostile the Iraqis are to Americans? Hey, hey wait a second, our security is gone, run, run, back to the hotel!

Camera Man: Sigh, we're only about 50 yards from the door you know...

CNN Reporter: Quickly, before the little girls get us! Aieeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

A little humor for this morning

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post #48 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-22-2004, 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by black01gt
Unless civil war breaks out first,LOL, I see no reason at all why we couldn't sit at a table, argue like hell for hours, then split the beer tab, shake hands again and go home, fully respecting each other!
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post #49 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-22-2004, 11:43 AM
 
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Originally posted by 281R
Yes, any group or site that is going to run flyers compairing Bush to Hitler is a bunch of morons.
Or theyre not afraid to show they know their history. Look at the link in my characteristics of fascism thread. I dont think that Bush is a full fledged "hitler wannabe fascist", but LEGITIMATE parallels can be drawn. You can definitley say that our feelings as a nation towards terrorist after 9/11 could rival that of the distatste of nazi germany towards certain groups after treaties that ended World War I destroyed the country of germany. So we unify and wage this war on terrorism , create acts that infringe on our rights do to this cause. Why? because of a central fear that unites us all. So we create a global super military not afraid to invade and take over countries, even to the disregard of our allies. All lead by a leader who created a fraudgelent election in Florida by removing innocent blacks off the role for sharing the birth date and 2 initials of a convicted felon, and taking absentee ballots that were clearly post marked after election day. heres a quote from that page:
"What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if he people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And their sense of identification with Hitler, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it."


Last edited by DanielMc; 04-22-2004 at 11:58 AM.
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post #50 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-22-2004, 12:19 PM
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Or theyre not afraid to show they know their history. Look at the link in my characteristics of fascism thread.
Im sorry, that is just ridiculas. If you think they know their history and that is a creditable compairason than you have a warped view of history.
Quote:
Originally posted by DanielMc

I dont think that Bush is a full fledged "hitler wannabe fascist", but LEGITIMATE parallels can be drawn.
What are they then, name them...
Quote:
Originally posted by DanielMc

You can definitley say that our feelings as a nation towards terrorist after 9/11 could rival that of the distatste of nazi germany towards certain groups after treaties that ended World War I destroyed the country of germany. So we unify and wage this war on terrorism , create acts that infringe on our rights do to this cause. Why? because of a central fear that unites us all. So we create a global super military not afraid to invade and take over countries, even to the disregard of our allies.
What, so we can protect ourself? We thought he did have weapons of mass destructions and that he had a connection with alqueda in which we are very unsure of either than we know he had WMDs. Its not like we are invading innocent countrys to retain power there. I've got money that our some of our Allies and some of the UN didnt support us b/c of the food for oil scandle. Hasnt been proven yet, but dosent mean it wont.


Quote:
Originally posted by DanielMc

All lead by a leader who created a fraudgelent election in Florida by removing innocent blacks off the role for sharing the birth date and 2 initials of a convicted felon, and taking absentee ballots that were clearly post marked after election day. heres a quote from that page:
That election was fair and square and Thank God Bush won it, otherwise we'd still be sitting here waiting for the UN to do something with Alqueda with Gore in office IMO.

Quote:
Originally posted by DanielMc

"What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if he people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And their sense of identification with Hitler, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it."
You have a warped of way of compairing Dictatorship to democracy.

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