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post #1 of 106 (permalink) Old 02-10-2004, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
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Bush's military record's...

The Whitehouse has released the Prez's Air Guard records, showing his pay stubs. Kerry has ceated some tough issues for himself- saying the Nat'l Guard isn't considered Military? We lost 6,000 Nat'l Guard troops in Vietnam...hmmm. Wait until archives of Kerry come out showing him marching next to Hanoi Jane under the Viet Cong flag. What about his '92 oratory on the Senate floor discussing Bill Clinton's NON-military record, and how we should not judge a person based on such a "trying time in America"? Wake up America, and give me a fuckin' break.

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post #2 of 106 (permalink) Old 02-10-2004, 03:43 PM
 
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the lack of morals and ethical principles by the these Fin liberals and some democrats are pissing me off. just because Bush has taken a stand for what he believes in he's so criticized. its BS. if you saw your neighbor beating the sh*t out of some innocent kid would you stop him? Saddam was responsible for the deaths of over a million people. many of whom were his own. people who took a stand. gay marriage and adoption? allow it? come on give me a break. Atleast Bush is trying to keep this country "normal" to some extent. Kerry Fed up when he said that about the National Guard.
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post #3 of 106 (permalink) Old 02-10-2004, 04:05 PM Thread Starter
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The GOP is waiting for Kerry to get the nomination nod before they show their hand. It will be ugly. The damage he would do to this country, would make Saddam look like Tinkerbell. There is nothing worse than an enemy from within.

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post #4 of 106 (permalink) Old 02-12-2004, 11:07 AM
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Isn't is wonderful that some people try to find anything that they can to turn voters form one candidate to another. It sure is interesting how this is just now coming during an election year
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post #5 of 106 (permalink) Old 02-23-2004, 10:28 PM
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Originally posted by Vertnut
There is nothing worse than an enemy from within.
No shit!!! Just look at what they've done to this country already in just 3 years. As far as the good of the USA is concerned, they make Saddam, and Bin Not Hiden for that matter, look like Tinkerbell.

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post #6 of 106 (permalink) Old 02-24-2004, 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by black01gt
No shit!!! Just look at what they've done to this country already in just 3 years. As far as the good of the USA is concerned, they make Saddam, and Bin Not Hiden for that matter, look like Tinkerbell.
LEt's not get carried away.......

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post #7 of 106 (permalink) Old 02-25-2004, 06:16 AM
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Although we in the military make fun of all reservest and national gaurd personel they do fight side by side us in conflict, so in my book if you catch bullets with us your military.
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post #8 of 106 (permalink) Old 02-25-2004, 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by Sky
Although we in the military make fun of all reservest and national gaurd personel they do fight side by side us in conflict, so in my book if you catch bullets with us your military.

exactly

There's a LOT of reservists over in Iraq as we speak....

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post #9 of 106 (permalink) Old 02-25-2004, 12:43 PM
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Would love to see someone call a Marine Reservist "non-millitary" - I believe the Marines emptied their reserves into Iraq and are pulling in new ones faster then they can say HooRah!(sp)
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post #10 of 106 (permalink) Old 02-25-2004, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sky
Although we in the military make fun of all reservest and national gaurd personel they do fight side by side us in conflict, so in my book if you catch bullets with us your military.
No matter what the title or pay grade..anyone over there in conflict, dodging bullets and bombs is by definition a Hero! I would feel better about it tho if anyone in the current administration had ever been in the situation these guys and gals are in. Especially the Sec. of Defense, Rummy. Just can't get behind a Sec. of Defense that's never been in the military.

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post #11 of 106 (permalink) Old 02-28-2004, 01:12 AM Thread Starter
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Ted Williams was (is) the greatest pure hitter of all time, but he couldn't coach for shit....just because you can play, doesn't mean you can coach.

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post #12 of 106 (permalink) Old 02-28-2004, 07:06 PM
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Originally posted by Vertnut
Ted Williams was (is) the greatest pure hitter of all time, but he couldn't coach for shit....just because you can play, doesn't mean you can coach.
What
"sir..just because your brain surgeon has never seen the inside of a hospital, doesn't mean you have anything to worry about." Rummy has never been in the game, hitting or coaching, but he IS well connected. And I guess anymore, that is all that matters.

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post #13 of 106 (permalink) Old 02-28-2004, 07:46 PM
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black01gt...

I have been noticing a consistant trend with your posts about Bush and the Republicans, all of which have been negative. You can't even support your fledgeling logic with any facts. What do you stand for or believe in? Who is your candidate and why?

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post #14 of 106 (permalink) Old 02-28-2004, 07:58 PM
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You know we go back and forth on here about this and that. But I have to say I agree with Black01gt on this. I think the reason we are in such a fucked up situation right now is because we don't put prior military into the slots they need to be in.

If we would elect a President who had served in the Military then he would understand the sacrifices made by those before him, and those who are sacrificing right now. And no I do not mean the reserves, I know that we are calling up the reserves now, but they have not historically been deployed anywhere.

Bush's Immigration Plan, and plan to Eliminate Overtime are some of the biggest moves to eliminate the middle class, and reward big business we have ever seen.

The next thing would be my candidate, which would be McCain, I like a man who fucks up and admits he fucked up, his Military record speaks for itself, how many of these candidates now do you think could do a stint in the Hanoi Hilton without breaking?

Of course I think everyone who wants to hold an elected office should have served so I am biased.
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post #15 of 106 (permalink) Old 02-28-2004, 09:42 PM
 
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even though this thread is about bushs military records and we see that he served i think, all discrimination aside, colin powell would make a good president. he's done his time in the military and did it well. he did say something about if he had known that there were not any weapons that he wouldnt have approved of our raid on iraq or somethin like that but he did say it was something that needed to be done. this country is just fine. we americans are spoiled. we shouldnt complain as much as we do. we need to quit looking at we dont have and what we have and compare it to the other countries in this world. we still kick ass regardless. yes there are a few things that are jacked up and do need to be corrected but either way we're way ahead of the game when it comes to most things. only an American would have come up with a Ford Mustang!
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post #16 of 106 (permalink) Old 02-28-2004, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by reef93gt


Bush's Immigration Plan, and plan to Eliminate Overtime are some of the biggest moves to eliminate the middle class, and reward big business we have ever seen.
Overtime may be eliminated in certain companies. However, with the influx of workers coming into the country the only way it makes economic sense to replace overtime is to replace overtime with a full time employee position. This is what is called "creating jobs." anybody who is working a job who is expecting their total income to be consistently based on overtime is like a person counting on a bonus every year. This doesn't happen on a consistent basis because itís cheaper for a company at some point in time to hire another person than to pay overtime. Once again, this is called creating new jobs," normally speaking, companies pay employees overtime until such time they can justify hiring a new employee to offset overtime. This has been the process that creates more jobs for the middle class since the depression was over.

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post #17 of 106 (permalink) Old 02-28-2004, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by reef93gt
You know we go back and forth on here about this and that. But I have to say I agree with Black01gt on this. I think the reason we are in such a fucked up situation right now is because we don't put prior military into the slots they need to be in.

If we would elect a President who had served in the Military then he would understand the sacrifices made by those before him, and those who are sacrificing right now. And no I do not mean the reserves, I know that we are calling up the reserves now, but they have not historically been deployed anywhere.

Bush's Immigration Plan, and plan to Eliminate Overtime are some of the biggest moves to eliminate the middle class, and reward big business we have ever seen.

The next thing would be my candidate, which would be McCain, I like a man who fucks up and admits he fucked up, his Military record speaks for itself, how many of these candidates now do you think could do a stint in the Hanoi Hilton without breaking?

Of course I think everyone who wants to hold an elected office should have served so I am biased.
And once you eliminate the middle class you have a Arisocratic Nation, which is just great...for a few. I guess our "leaders" feel like if 3rd world countries can live like that, then so can the good ole USA.
The CONTEMPT of this administration has pretty much turned me into a "yellow dog democrat" indeed, but I would vote for someone as HONORABLE as John McCain in a heartbeat. If the country had leaders with his background, we would indeed have Leaders with conviction and courage that is actually concerned about yours and my neighborhood, instead of Big Stockholders and Corporations with the lawmakers in their pockets and some RICH PUNK as thier spokesmen.

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post #18 of 106 (permalink) Old 02-28-2004, 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by x_redhotcobra_x
black01gt...

I have been noticing a consistant trend with your posts about Bush and the Republicans, all of which have been negative. You can't even support your fledgeling logic with any facts. What do you stand for or believe in? Who is your candidate and why?
1) What the fuck is positive about Bush and His Fraternity party, unless you're one of the well connected chosen few?
2)I support my "fledgeling logic" (did you learn that from Rush?), with these here words you are currently reading. I did plenty of "term papers" and thesis 32 years ago in college and I ain't about to do research to appease some hard liner wannabe sitting in a dorm room.
3) I stand for honesty, integrity and courage among not just elected officials, but from every American toward each other. I believe in digging for the truth and not just going along with what I'm told to believe. If I did that I would still think that Lee Oswald killed Kennedy, because that's what the Gov't said happened.
4) My candidate is anyone but Dubya! Why? Because this counrty will NEVER recover if "they" get re-elected!
Sorry for the lack of facts here. Maybe you could think, instead of reading.

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post #19 of 106 (permalink) Old 02-28-2004, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by x_redhotcobra_x
Overtime may be eliminated in certain companies. However, with the influx of workers coming into the country the only way it makes economic sense to replace overtime is to replace overtime with a full time employee position. This is what is called "creating jobs." anybody who is working a job who is expecting their total income to be consistently based on overtime is like a person counting on a bonus every year. This doesn't happen on a consistent basis because itís cheaper for a company at some point in time to hire another person than to pay overtime. Once again, this is called creating new jobs," normally speaking, companies pay employees overtime until such time they can justify hiring a new employee to offset overtime. This has been the process that creates more jobs for the middle class since the depression was over.
You need to go sell this shit in India or China or one of the other countries that are getting all these new jobs because I think Americans are starting to call "bullshit"!!!

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post #20 of 106 (permalink) Old 02-29-2004, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by x_redhotcobra_x
Overtime may be eliminated in certain companies. However, with the influx of workers coming into the country the only way it makes economic sense to replace overtime is to replace overtime with a full time employee position. This is what is called "creating jobs." anybody who is working a job who is expecting their total income to be consistently based on overtime is like a person counting on a bonus every year. This doesn't happen on a consistent basis because itís cheaper for a company at some point in time to hire another person than to pay overtime. Once again, this is called creating new jobs," normally speaking, companies pay employees overtime until such time they can justify hiring a new employee to offset overtime. This has been the process that creates more jobs for the middle class since the depression was over.

Read his plan, before you respond, His plan is to eliminate overtime for certain positions, which would make them work 40+ hours for thesame wage as <40 hours. This is not creating jobs, it is rewarding companies/employers for being inefficient. Overtime is only necessary for companies which are inefficient being that they do not correctly match their headcount with their production. OT is a result of them being inefficient, Bush is going to reward them, so that they DO NOT have to go out and get more people..put into retirement, benefit's etc. Why go get more people if you can pay the same person the same wage to work 40+? Tell me how this generates job's since this was your answer??????????????/
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post #21 of 106 (permalink) Old 02-29-2004, 02:12 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, as I have suspected, we have spotted a truly RARE animal...The Spotted DFW Liberal! They are rarely seen in the wild, but tend to be prolific in U.S. related threads. Black 01 GT is about the age of a Viet Nam vet. See any action? Any photos of you bangin' Hanoi Jane, or were you hangin' with Bill at Oxford when all the fighting was going on? Just curious...Oh, and Ted Williams was still the greatest hitter of the modern game...

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post #22 of 106 (permalink) Old 02-29-2004, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vertnut
Yes, as I have suspected, we have spotted a truly RARE animal...The Spotted DFW Liberal! They are rarely seen in the wild, but tend to be prolific in U.S. related threads. Black 01 GT is about the age of a Viet Nam vet. See any action? Any photos of you bangin' Hanoi Jane, or were you hangin' with Bill at Oxford when all the fighting was going on? Just curious...Oh, and Ted Williams was still the greatest hitter of the modern game...
Thanks for the curiousity there Vert! No..as a matter of fact, I was hanging with my rich buddy GWB from Midland or Houston or Maine or, ah who the hell knows. Anyway, we had a blast laughing our asses off about all those poor bastards whose fathers weren't influencial politicians and had no choice but to go to Viet Nam and get their legs blown off or worse. My friend hid in the Texas National Guard, but only had to show up when he had nothing better to do, while all the fighting was going in Viet Nam. Why do you ask?
Yeah-Ted was great. And your point...?

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post #23 of 106 (permalink) Old 02-29-2004, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by reef93gt
Read his plan, before you respond, His plan is to eliminate overtime for certain positions, which would make them work 40+ hours for thesame wage as <40 hours. This is not creating jobs, it is rewarding companies/employers for being inefficient. Overtime is only necessary for companies which are inefficient being that they do not correctly match their headcount with their production. OT is a result of them being inefficient, Bush is going to reward them, so that they DO NOT have to go out and get more people..put into retirement, benefit's etc. Why go get more people if you can pay the same person the same wage to work 40+? Tell me how this generates job's since this was your answer??????????????/
I'm just saying that under normal circumstances that when most companies are having their employees work a significant amount of overtime, that they will in all probability bring in more workers so that they dont have to pay overtime. As an example, when when my dads company starts paying overtime to current workers then next the that happens is that they always bring back laid off workers or higher new workers so that they dont have to pay overtime. this is my point.

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post #24 of 106 (permalink) Old 02-29-2004, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by black01gt
1) What the fuck is positive about Bush and His Fraternity party, unless you're one of the well connected chosen few?
2)I support my "fledgeling logic" (did you learn that from Rush?), with these here words you are currently reading. I did plenty of "term papers" and thesis 32 years ago in college and I ain't about to do research to appease some hard liner wannabe sitting in a dorm room.
3) I stand for honesty, integrity and courage among not just elected officials, but from every American toward each other. I believe in digging for the truth and not just going along with what I'm told to believe. If I did that I would still think that Lee Oswald killed Kennedy, because that's what the Gov't said happened.
4) My candidate is anyone but Dubya! Why? Because this counrty will NEVER recover if "they" get re-elected!
Sorry for the lack of facts here. Maybe you could think, instead of reading.
Look, I'm not going to sit here and dignify all of your statements with a response. My advice to you is sit back, relax, and get ready for four more years of Bush. Just curious if you are going to vote for Nadar since he is running again because the remaining feeble liberal four will soon become non-events?

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post #25 of 106 (permalink) Old 02-29-2004, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by x_redhotcobra_x
I'm just saying that under normal circumstances that when most companies are having their employees work a significant amount of overtime, that they will in all probability bring in more workers so that they dont have to pay overtime. As an example, when when my dads company starts paying overtime to current workers then next the that happens is that they always bring back laid off workers or higher new workers so that they dont have to pay overtime. this is my point.
When they are getting overtime work done and not having to pay for it, then..where is the incentive to bring back or add workers? Also the employer decides when the worker takes their comp-time, not the employee.

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post #26 of 106 (permalink) Old 02-29-2004, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by black01gt
When they are getting overtime work done and not having to pay for it, then..where is the incentive to bring back or add workers? Also the employer decides when the worker takes their comp-time, not the employee.
It seems to me that the current worker will have less of an incentive to work overtime thus creating a spot/need for the next guy to fill his, heretofore, overtime slot thus employing that next guy(who is prolly unemployed anyways).

If you're working OT just to get by that's one thing but if you're working OT to be able to afford a certain lifestyle then you're prolly living beyond your means and if you're the type that lives beyond your means it won't matter how much you make because you will always be the type to live beyond your means.
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post #27 of 106 (permalink) Old 02-29-2004, 11:00 PM
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Class envy is pathetic.


Quote:
Originally posted by black01gt
And once you eliminate the middle class you have a Arisocratic Nation, which is just great...for a few. I guess our "leaders" feel like if 3rd world countries can live like that, then so can the good ole USA.
The CONTEMPT of this administration has pretty much turned me into a "yellow dog democrat" indeed, but I would vote for someone as HONORABLE as John McCain in a heartbeat. If the country had leaders with his background, we would indeed have Leaders with conviction and courage that is actually concerned about yours and my neighborhood, instead of Big Stockholders and Corporations with the lawmakers in their pockets and some RICH PUNK as thier spokesmen.

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post #28 of 106 (permalink) Old 03-01-2004, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by x_redhotcobra_x
I'm just saying that under normal circumstances that when most companies are having their employees work a significant amount of overtime, that they will in all probability bring in more workers so that they dont have to pay overtime. As an example, when when my dads company starts paying overtime to current workers then next the that happens is that they always bring back laid off workers or higher new workers so that they dont have to pay overtime. this is my point.
That's how it works now, however the OT Plan will make certain workers salary, in which case they can work them as much as they want. This plan will change the rules as we know them. I think it is up to a company to decide what position is Salary and the Employee to accept that position, so why is the govt. involved?
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post #29 of 106 (permalink) Old 03-01-2004, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by stung
It seems to me that the current worker will have less of an incentive to work overtime thus creating a spot/need for the next guy to fill his, heretofore, overtime slot thus employing that next guy(who is prolly unemployed anyways).

If you're working OT just to get by that's one thing but if you're working OT to be able to afford a certain lifestyle then you're prolly living beyond your means and if you're the type that lives beyond your means it won't matter how much you make because you will always be the type to live beyond your means.
yeah...OK!?

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post #30 of 106 (permalink) Old 03-01-2004, 09:38 PM
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Originally posted by HookEm
Class envy is pathetic.
Not near as pathetic as Pompass assholes like you tho. Who holds the "comfort" money for you? You or your daddy?
How's the weather there in Austin?

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post #31 of 106 (permalink) Old 03-01-2004, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by black01gt
yeah...OK!?

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post #32 of 106 (permalink) Old 03-02-2004, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by x_redhotcobra_x
Look, I'm not going to sit here and dignify all of your statements with a response. My advice to you is sit back, relax, and get ready for four more years of Bush. Just curious if you are going to vote for Nadar since he is running again because the remaining feeble liberal four will soon become non-events?
Thanks anyway, but I don't need your advice.
No...I'm not.

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post #33 of 106 (permalink) Old 03-02-2004, 09:36 PM
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Well the economy is having a jobless recovery, this means that someone isn't working. Could they be some of my friends, maybe you, who is to blame? Everyday our national debts go up, our troops are being killed and we were lied to originally when we went into Iraq. President Bush does not have any ground to stand on with his military service compared to Kerry who has 3 purple hearts, 1 bronze star and could have had his father get him out of Vietnam duty also. The current Vice President has his hands so deep in the pockets of the special interest groups that he is all about the money and oh by the way it is not coming our way.
I teach school now and served 9 years in the Army as an infantryman and then on tanks. I saw action in Desert Storm when I was 18 and have no problem with anyone who has served marching in protest against what they believe is wrong, they have earned that right. Also the picture of Jane Fonda near Kerry at a peace rally is just that a picture in which he is about 3 rows behind her and 5 people over. To conclude they marched together is not correct. If you truely believe in the democracy we live in, I, my father and grand fathers before him have all fought for then you must allow others their freedoms. Even if those freedoms are opposite of yours and anger you.
post #34 of 106 (permalink) Old 03-03-2004, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Waddell72
Well the economy is having a jobless recovery, this means that someone isn't working. Could they be some of my friends, maybe you, who is to blame? Everyday our national debts go up, our troops are being killed and we were lied to originally when we went into Iraq. President Bush does not have any ground to stand on with his military service compared to Kerry who has 3 purple hearts, 1 bronze star and could have had his father get him out of Vietnam duty also. The current Vice President has his hands so deep in the pockets of the special interest groups that he is all about the money and oh by the way it is not coming our way.
I teach school now and served 9 years in the Army as an infantryman and then on tanks. I saw action in Desert Storm when I was 18 and have no problem with anyone who has served marching in protest against what they believe is wrong, they have earned that right. Also the picture of Jane Fonda near Kerry at a peace rally is just that a picture in which he is about 3 rows behind her and 5 people over. To conclude they marched together is not correct. If you truely believe in the democracy we live in, I, my father and grand fathers before him have all fought for then you must allow others their freedoms. Even if those freedoms are opposite of yours and anger you.
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post #35 of 106 (permalink) Old 03-04-2004, 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by Waddell72
Well the economy is having a jobless recovery, this means that someone isn't working. Could they be some of my friends, maybe you, who is to blame?
So who is to blame? Sounds like you want to blame somebody..
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Originally posted by Waddell72

Everyday our national debts go up, our troops are being killed
Freedom comes with a price. What exactly did you expect if you enroll in the military?
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Originally posted by Waddell72

and we were lied to originally when we went into Iraq.
If your going to say Bush lied, wouldnt it only be fair that Kerry lied, Clinton lied, Al Gore lied, Wesley Clark lied, and every other person in the government/CIA that made a miscall lied? They all said Sadaam had WMDs.
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Originally posted by Waddell72

President Bush does not have any ground to stand on with his military service compared to Kerry who has 3 purple hearts,
That he took somebody elses medals and threw them over a fence to protest the war. Yea, lot of respect there. Then tons of vietnam vets are protesting Kerry about him lieing about what really went on in vietnam. I respect him for serving his country, but not for his views or how he handled himself when he got back.
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Originally posted by Waddell72

Also the picture of Jane Fonda near Kerry at a peace rally is just that a picture in which he is about 3 rows behind her and 5 people over. To conclude they marched together is not correct.
Then what is? Didnt they give a speach a the same anti-war rally? Birds of the feather flock together. Good ol' wise saying.
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Originally posted by Waddell72

If you truely believe in the democracy we live in, I, my father and grand fathers before him have all fought for then you must allow others their freedoms. Even if those freedoms are opposite of yours and anger you.
So has my father, Grandfather, uncle, great uncle, and so on.... So what? You can have all the freedom of protesting all you want, but everyone dosent have to agree with you either.
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post #36 of 106 (permalink) Old 03-04-2004, 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by 281R
Then what is? Didnt they give a speach a the same anti-war rally? Birds of the feather flock together. Good ol' wise saying.
Don't make me pull out the picture of Rumsfeld and Saddam shaking hands...
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post #37 of 106 (permalink) Old 03-04-2004, 03:29 PM
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Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
Don't make me pull out the picture of Rumsfeld and Saddam shaking hands...
So Rumsfeld and Saddam are in the same boat? Maybe you can show me the picture of them sitting in a Bush rally together also Shaking hands and rallying together is a little different, ya think.
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post #38 of 106 (permalink) Old 03-04-2004, 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by 281R
So Rumsfeld and Saddam are in the same boat? Maybe you can show me the picture of them sitting in a Bush rally together also Shaking hands and rallying together is a little different, ya think.
Being at an event supporting a common cause (and 3 rows back at that!) denotes a possible common interest but does not denote ALL common interests in a matter.

I can agree with someone and support that person in this agreement without fully taking their side.

Now, a handshake can also denote the start of a relationship, I don't know, like allowing US companies to send precursors and equipment for chemical warfare.

Point being a photo taken decades ago doesn't mean squat.

At least pick up some current key issues to slam Kerry on (there are many)

Last edited by 01WhiteCobra; 03-04-2004 at 03:36 PM.
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post #39 of 106 (permalink) Old 03-04-2004, 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra


Now, a handshake can also denote the start of a relationship, I don't know, like allowing US companies to send precursors and equipment for chemical warfare.
Do you have an article on it?
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post #40 of 106 (permalink) Old 03-04-2004, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
Being at an event supporting a common cause (and 3 rows back at that!) denotes a possible common interest but does not denote ALL common interests in a matter.

I can agree with someone and support that person in this agreement without fully taking their side.

Now, a handshake can also denote the start of a relationship, I don't know, like allowing US companies to send precursors and equipment for chemical warfare.

Point being a photo taken decades ago doesn't mean squat.

At least pick up some current key issues to slam Kerry on (there are many)
Birds of the feather shake hands together?
Your right there are a lot of current issues it seems Kerry can take a stand on, so I'll just give his voters a quarter (we'lll wait, thats too much) ok a pennie and they can flip it to see how he will vote and stand on issues

Last edited by 281R; 03-04-2004 at 03:43 PM.
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post #41 of 106 (permalink) Old 03-04-2004, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 281R
Do you have an article on it?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer

Quote:
When United Nations weapons inspectors were allowed into Iraq after the 1991 Gulf War, they compiled long lists of chemicals, missile components, and computers from American suppliers, including such household names as Union Carbide and Honeywell, which were being used for military purposes.
Quote:
Among the people instrumental in tilting U.S. policy toward Baghdad during the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war was Donald H. Rumsfeld, now defense secretary, whose December 1983 meeting with Hussein as a special presidential envoy paved the way for normalization of U.S.-Iraqi relations. Declassified documents show that Rumsfeld traveled to Baghdad at a time when Iraq was using chemical weapons on an "almost daily" basis in defiance of international conventions.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
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post #42 of 106 (permalink) Old 03-04-2004, 03:51 PM
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And if you want to take the "If Clinton would have done something, Gulf War II wouldn't have happened" argument back a couple of decades...

If Reagan didn't remove Iraq from the State's Department list of terrorist nations in 1982 (over congressional objections), Saddam would have had his ass kicked over 20 years ago.

We wouldn't have had to worry about Gulf War I or Gulf War II.

But, he was strategic in 1982 (remember, it ain't about oil).
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post #43 of 106 (permalink) Old 03-04-2004, 03:53 PM
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In November of 1984, full diplomatic relations with Iraq were restored by the US. This was 6 or so months after it said that Iraq was guilty of breaking the Geneva accords by the use of chemical weapons against Iran.
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post #44 of 106 (permalink) Old 03-04-2004, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
Don't make me pull out the picture of Rumsfeld and Saddam shaking hands...
you love playing devils advocate dont you?


Last edited by x_redhotcobra_x; 03-04-2004 at 04:14 PM.
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post #45 of 106 (permalink) Old 03-04-2004, 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by x_redhotcobra_x
you love playing devils advocate dont you?
No, just leveling the playing field.

Photos taking decades ago don't mean squat to the U.S. today.

Policies from decades ago don't mean squat to the U.S. today.

If you want to pick Kerry apart, there is plenty current crap to bring up. Let's not make this an election of who did what during 60s and 70s.

Kerry volunteered, Bush did as well. Kerry knew where he was going after he volunteered. Bush prayed he wasn't going to the same place.

That is all. Bring some current crap up.
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post #46 of 106 (permalink) Old 03-04-2004, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
No, just leveling the playing field.

Photos taking decades ago don't mean squat to the U.S. today.

Policies from decades ago don't mean squat to the U.S. today.

If you want to pick Kerry apart, there is plenty current crap to bring up. Let's not make this an election of who did what during 60s and 70s.

Kerry volunteered, Bush did as well. Kerry knew where he was going after he volunteered. Bush prayed he wasn't going to the same place.

That is all. Bring some current crap up.
My responce was to Waddell72 that was bring up stuff way from the past saying bush's military record didnt mean crap which is a very, very cheap shot. Anyways
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post #47 of 106 (permalink) Old 03-04-2004, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 281R
My responce was to Waddell72 that was bring up stuff way from the past saying bush's military record didnt mean crap which is a very, very cheap shot. Anyways
It's all crap.

I'm not voting in the primaries this year so I can sign on independent's petitions. I don't think they have a chance in heck to win, but, hopefully they'll get enough votes to shake up those elected.

I think both parties have left the middle to fend for themselves. The country is primed for a third party, although I don't think you could get those in the middle to agree on enough to actually put forth a concerted effort. Sort of like the Liberterian party. I saw a Liberterian's election website today that had two links, one to the Liberterian Party's website and another to a "Paypal Donate" link. Jeesh.

Oh well, concentrating on my little neck of the woods at the moment. Shakin' it up. It's fun.
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post #48 of 106 (permalink) Old 03-04-2004, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
[i]Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
Photos taking decades ago don't mean squat to the U.S. today.

If you want to pick Kerry apart, there is plenty current crap to bring up. Let's not make this an election of who did what during 60s and 70s.

Kerry volunteered, Bush did as well. Kerry knew where he was going after he volunteered. Bush prayed he wasn't going to the same place.

. [/B]
I think that alot of Vietnam Vets would think differently of that, in that picture, Kerry is there with Hanoi Jane the woman who is responsible for the deaths of several Hanoi Hilton Prisoners after she turned over their information to the Vietnamese who were keeping them prisoner.

Men don't change, whoever you are stays with you regardless of how deep you try to hide it.
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post #49 of 106 (permalink) Old 03-04-2004, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
No, just leveling the playing field.

Photos taking decades ago don't mean squat to the U.S. today.

Policies from decades ago don't mean squat to the U.S. today.

seems like kerry and his party dont get that message.

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post #50 of 106 (permalink) Old 03-04-2004, 11:26 PM
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Originally posted by 281R
So who is to blame? Sounds like you want to blame somebody..
Freedom comes with a price. What exactly did you expect if you enroll in the military?
If your going to say Bush lied, wouldnt it only be fair that Kerry lied, Clinton lied, Al Gore lied, Wesley Clark lied, and every other person in the government/CIA that made a miscall lied? They all said Sadaam had WMDs.
That he took somebody elses medals and threw them over a fence to protest the war. Yea, lot of respect there. Then tons of vietnam vets are protesting Kerry about him lieing about what really went on in vietnam. I respect him for serving his country, but not for his views or how he handled himself when he got back.
Then what is? Didnt they give a speach a the same anti-war rally? Birds of the feather flock together. Good ol' wise saying.
So has my father, Grandfather, uncle, great uncle, and so on.... So what? You can have all the freedom of protesting all you want, but everyone dosent have to agree with you either.
How many friends that served with you have you buried or visited while they were recovering from wounds this past year. I have buried 2 and visited 5, I had served for 9 years how about you? I can throw my medals over any fence if I want to and speak in the presence of anyone and not be anything like them. I am speaking in your presence right now and we're not alike.
Those who have never served have little idea what it is like to be placed in harms way for no good reason, to eat very little, march long distances, jump from planes in the dark, pull guard duty on foriegn soil guarding people whom would rather see you dead.
Then there is always some ass who would have the gull to say "What exactly did you expect when you enrolled in the military". Well get this weirdo boy, men and women don't enroll in the military it isn't college it's the military they volunteer. As for what they expected, I am sure it was not to be lied to by any faction of the Government run by the current administration. Just as troops have a duty to fight wars the goverment has a duty to insure they have all there shit straight before the body count hits 500 and no one finds any WMD. I agreed with Desert Storm and had no problem going in over there when I was 18. I think this war/conflict is really going the wrong way.
So yeah I want someone to blame for my friend who left two little girls behind and a broken hearted wife who now has a silver star and a folded flag to remember him by. I am looking for someone to blame about the friend of mine who ran in the Boston Marathon two years ago and now is missing his left leg. I'll stop there it doesn't get any better.
I'm not saying Kerry is the best but he's gotta be better than what we have in the White House now. If not at least it's different and he's got the scars to at least better understand what it means to be a real soldier/sailor.
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