Patriotic Americans, or Cowards and Traitors. - DFWstangs Forums
 
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-26-2003, 07:05 PM
Sam Breacher
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Patriotic Americans, or Cowards and Traitors.

Right wingers all over this land have been espousing the righteousness of their presidents war.
Even when confronted with the FACT the Bush lied through his teeth to the American people about the reasons for this war, they deny, spin, and lie to protect their president and his agenda.

They also claim that anyone that doesnt support this war and this president, dont support the troops and are traitors to this country.,

I say this, that with the US Armed forces are being stretched so severly that it is deminishing our ability to defend ourselves. It is time for those that say that they belive in this president and this country, to go down to their local recruiting station and enlist. I am a liberal and I am a veteran. I have already served my country, and it wasnt in some guard unit.

If people claim to believe that this country is in danger. If people claim to believe the people of this country are in grave danger, then they should stand for what they claim they believe.

If they believe these things, and do not enlist, I say they are cowards and traitors not only to their own beliefs, but are traitors to this nation.,

Now right wingers, it is time to put up or shut up. Put your money where your mouth is. Show all of us liberals, that you really are patriots. Show us that you really do believe that our nation is in danger.

Or is all of this bravado and big talk just more lies from republicans ? I say that most of you support this war, and this president, just as long as it is someone else in harms way. Just as long as it is someone else that will fight, bleed, and die for their country.

Cowards and Traitors ? I think so. And the more I talk to and chat with right wingers and hear their excuses, the more I am absolutly convinced that right wingers are "Big Talkers" and fall way short of guts and being a real American patriot.

I guess you could be like your president that deserted his military post, during a time of war. Then you could be just like Bush.

To those that oppose this war and this presidents reasons for it. This is the absolute best argument you can use to point out the lies and hypocracies of the right wingers. It works. Just watch 'em squeel.

Let the lies, excuses and rhetoric begin.
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-26-2003, 07:16 PM
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riiiiight...

facts please.....
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-26-2003, 07:21 PM
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Have you even posted about a Mustang dude?

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If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
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I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-26-2003, 07:24 PM
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no he hasnt

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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-26-2003, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by FatassLX
no he hasnt
are you talking to me? i have, i used to buy and sell alot here in the past but my time is limited but i am here everyday....just dont post alot.

<------- lurker...
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-26-2003, 07:37 PM
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no, 90 notch

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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-26-2003, 08:02 PM
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We are referring to Sam, he gets in threads for his 7 or 8 posts, but none related to Mustangs.

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If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-26-2003, 08:23 PM
 
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whats a matter with sam.. is he having some kind of flashback??
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-26-2003, 08:43 PM
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I can understand you trying to make your points, because liberals are in serious trouble politically. You are in a vast minority, but keep up the good fight...I respect that.

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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-27-2003, 09:57 AM
Sam Breacher
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Several right wingers cop out to being cowards and traitors !

Good to see how many of you resemble my remarks and copped out to being cowards, and traitors.

RE: red93coupe

" facts please"

Not that posting facts will do any good with a right winged idiot like you, but for those that arent following their furher blindly, these links will prove the point that the U.S. Military is in dire need of new recruits. And the situation is only going to get worse. The people that are in the military now, will by in large NOT be re-enlisting. So the military will be getting smaller and smaller.

So where are all of those that claim to be patriotic americans. Why dont some of the right wingers that believe in this presidents reasons for global conquest step up and enlist. There are even women serving in combat units, and yet all of these right winged (so called )men, wont enlist. Even the GAYS in the military are showing up the right wing hypocrits that want this war to be waged, but are unwilling to fight it. It is pretty typical of the right wingers though.

There are even some that claim to be veterans, that could re-enlist (90 notch) and who claim that this country is in danger. But are they (re)enlisting. Hell no they arent, and you can bet your bottom dollar they wont either. All talk and not the least bit willing to back it up. Cowards and traitors to the end.

For all of the rhetoric about how Clinton hurt the military, Bush is flat out destroying it.

Heres your links red assed punk (red93coupe).


http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0319/p04s01-woiq.html

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/night...ry_030707.html

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/...ernational/Idx

http://www.moaa.org/magazine/February2003/f_rising.asp

http://nationalreview.com/owens/owens011003.asp

This article is about how Anthrax shots led to military attrition

http://www.insightmag.com/news/320556.html

Like I already said, PROOF and FACTS mean absolutely nothing to some of you. You ask for them, but then you ignore them, because the TRUTH just gets in the way of your propaganda.

The US Military is in dire need of new recruits, and those that should be enlisting, are refusing to, becasue they are cowards. So when you get right down to it. You cowards dont REALLY believe in these wars Bush is getting us into. You just think that it can help him politically.

And dont pretend that you care about the troops either. You are perfectly willing to sacrifice their lives, and national security, so that your "Fearless leader" can make political points. How very hypocritical and UnAmerican of you.
post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-28-2003, 06:36 PM
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LOL

Define "liberal" , "left-wing", "Democrat", "conservative", "right-wing", and "Republican" and I'll respond to you. I don't want any grey areas.
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-28-2003, 06:53 PM
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Re: Patriotic Americans, or Cowards and Traitors.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sam Breacher
Even when confronted with the FACT the Bush lied through his teeth...

I am a liberal and I am a veteran. I have already served my country, and it wasnt in some guard unit.


Or is all of this bravado and big talk just more lies from republicans ?

Cowards and Traitors ? I think so.

I guess you could be like your president that deserted his military post, during a time of war. Then you could be just like Bush.


Let the lies, excuses and rhetoric begin.
Hmmm, let's deal with these issues one by one...

Clinton lied A LOT, I believe there was at one time 238 items that he lied about during his campaign that could be proved he was lying when he said them.

You served in the military... congratulations and whoop-tee-doo where did you serve, when did you serve, and further more how long did you serve?

Clinton was the one mostly responsible for downsizing the military to include base closures, etc. Do you know what this does to local economies of towns that relied on the tax base of the persons serving at these bases? I do, as I lived in several of those towns that were affected by base closures. It can cripple the local economy, thank your boy for all the folks out of work from that. Oh wait... your boy Clinton was also the one that fled the entire country to avoid serving in the military period, if memory serves. Cowards and traitors, eh? Think about that before you run your misinformed mouth.

My father was turned down by the draft board during Vietnam for a shooting injury he had sustained in High School, is he a coward for not going to Vietnam? At least he went to the draft board and was turned down instead of running like a little bitch. He was finally accepted to the US Army in 81 and still serves today, I don't because face it there are some people that shouldn't be turned loose in a foreign land with guns and people shooting at you, I am one of them and have issues with someone telling me to hold my fire. I also grew up with a hatred of the military from it upsetting my whole life from the time I was 7, I felt it was personal, of course it wasn't, but from 7-12 years old you really don't understand those things.

Go back to your foxhole with the nude pics of your sister and come out when you are more informed on military and US History.

Was this the fight you were looking for? Oh and how large of a Dixie flag do you have on the back of your pickup?

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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-28-2003, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 46Tbird
LOL

Define "liberal" , "left-wing", "Democrat", "conservative", "right-wing", and "Republican" and I'll respond to you. I don't want any grey areas.
According to Lew Rockwell (and I concur)

Centrist – Just what it sounds like. Someone who doesn’t have any particularly strong ideological leanings in any direction. Most of the population will fit into this area, some liberal, some conservative ideologies. Usually considered "wishy-washy" but most liberals and most conservatives.

Conservative – Specifically a "fusionist" conservative of the National Review - Heritage Foundation mold. Someone who believes in traditional morality and capitalism, and the need for a limited government to allow both to flourish.

Left-libertarian – an anti-statist who is somewhat fearful of corporate and religious influence on public life.

Liberal – Supports economic regulation to promote social justice and takes a progressive stance toward moral or cultural issues.

Libertarian – A libertarian opposes most or all government activites. Does not favor much or any government support for either moral or economic systems.

Neoconservative – A "neocon" is more inclined than other conservatives toward vigorous government in the service of the goals of traditional morality and pro-business policies. Tends to favor a very strong foreign policy of America as well.

Paleoconservative – "Paleocons" want less US involvement in foreign affairs than other conservatives and oppose mass immigration. They are also more favorably disposed toward the South and the idea of secession, or at least decentralization, than neoconservatives.

Paleo-libertarian – Similar to other libertarians except for oppostion to mass immigration, and shares the paleocon appreciation of the South.

Radical – Critical of bouregois morality and strongly opposed to capitalism and willing to use state power to achieve desired ends.

Third-way – More supportive of foreign intervention than liberals and less supportive of economic regulation, coupled with more-or-less progressive social views. "Third-way" is to liberal what neoconservative is to conservative.
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-29-2003, 04:15 AM
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:Hmmm, let's deal with these issues one by one...

Yes, lets!

:Clinton lied A LOT,

So you DONT bother to say that Bush didnt lie, you just say that it is Ok, because Clinton lied.
Typican Republican point of view. But what happened to "restore honor and integrity to the White House"? I remeber someone saying that. Maybe that was just a BROKEN campaign promise.(LIE)

: I believe there was at one time 238 items that he lied about during his campaign that could be proved he was lying when he said them.

Where is this information ? You make it up ? Did 238 just seem like a real high number ?

:You served in the military... congratulations and whoop-tee-doo

Did you say you supported the troops.? Apparently you dont, even if you were to say you do, I know you to be a liar . More on this later.

:where did you serve,

Actually all over. I was in the Navy.

: when did you serve, and further more how long did you serve?

the 70's and I did my hitch, got my discharge and DD214. I did mine. Have you done yours? More on this in a minute.

:Clinton was the one mostly responsible for downsizing the military to include base closures, etc.

Congress, the Republican congress sent the Base Closure bill to Clinton.

o you know what this does to local economies of towns that relied on the tax base of the persons serving at these bases?

Yeah, I do I grew up in the military as well. I was born on an Army base (Valley Forge). My 2 sisters were born on Military bases,(Ft. Bliss and in Mannheim Germany) one of my brothers was born while my father was in Vietnam, and the other when my father was employed as a civilian working at a Military munitions depot.

:I do, as I lived in several of those towns that were affected by base closures.

Whah Whah. You are worried about the local economy, but have no regard for the troops themself. More on this in a minute.

: It can cripple the local economy, thank your boy for all the folks out of work from that.

First of all, hes not MY Boy.
And you "conveniently" overlook the 20 million jobs created during Clintons administration.
And what is Bush's record for job creation. 4 million jobs lost.

:Oh wait... your boy Clinton was also the one that fled the entire country to avoid serving in the military period, if memory serves.

Your memory serves you to remeber it the way it suits your lies and propaganda. So you lie cause it suits you. He didnt flee the country, he got out on a college deferment. If you want to talk about people that got deferments, We can do that too, but let me get done with this.,

: Cowards and traitors, eh? Think about that before you run your misinformed mouth.

I did think about it. And I say, that if you support this president, and this war, and you do not enlist. I say that "You" are a coward, a traitor, and UnAmerican.

:My father was turned down by the draft board during Vietnam for a shooting injury he had sustained in High School,

Self inflicted ?

:is he a coward for not going to Vietnam?

Maybe, I really dont know your father. But if by chance he did shoot himself to get out of going, then YES, he is a coward too.

: At least he went to the draft board and was turned down instead of running like a little bitch.

Like you are right now. Bitch !!!

:He was finally accepted to the US Army in 81 and still serves today,

Well good for him, Why didnt he enlist before the first Gulf War?

And like I said in my original post
:" Cowards and Traitors ? I think so. And the more I talk to and chat with right wingers and hear their excuses, the more I am absolutly convinced that right wingers are "Big Talkers" and fall way short of guts and being a real American patriot."

And this
"Let the lies, excuses and rhetoric begin"

: I don't because face it there are some people that shouldn't be turned loose in a foreign land with guns and people shooting at you, I am one of them and have issues with someone telling me to hold my fire.

Yeah, cowards and traitors.

: I also grew up with a hatred of the military from it upsetting my whole life from the time I was 7, I felt it was personal, of course it wasn't, but from 7-12 years old you really don't understand those things.

Best piece of Republican horseshit ever. Here we have a right winger, that supports the president and his war, and lets the truth slip out. He HATES the military. It is easy to see why you dont mind troops dying to further your boys agenda.

:Go back to your foxhole with the nude pics of your sister and come out when you are more informed on military and US History.

Dont have any of my sister, How about your moms pictures? Can she legally do that with a donkey?

:Was this the fight you were looking for?

Fight, from a PUNK like you.

:Oh and how large of a Dixie flag do you have on the back of your pickup?

To see how I feel about the confederacy and all of those that revere it, See my post made at 07-28-2003 12:07 PM at this page

https://www.dfwstangs.net/forums/show...0&pagenumber=3

What a typical right winged SOB (offense intended) you are. You come here running your mouth about how RIGHT your president is, and lying about Bill Clinton, and distorting the facts of his record as compared to Dubyas.

Then You admit that you hate the military, and you make all sorts of excuses for why you WONT go and fight this war. Son, if you dont want to go take on the Iraqiis, you DAMN sure dont want to jack with me.

You are the EXACT cowardly traitorous and UnAmerican SOB I was speaking of. Thank you for admitting it.
post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-29-2003, 04:57 AM
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I have to say Sam you are passionate. Wish we could convert that zeal toward a more productive political party.
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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-29-2003, 09:26 AM
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I find it hard to believe that someone who loves this country and supports the military would actually knock Bush and support Clinton.

You dumbass, all the "conservatives" that you have spoken to about their views are here in the good ol' US of A. The ones you haven't spoken to are in the desert with bullets whizzing past their heads. The idea that conservatives are cowards is obviously not based in fact. How many homosexual pot smoking liberals are in Iraq right now fending off Baath party loyalists?






I got your answer right here -------> a big fat fucking 0.

So let me get this straight, anyone that supports the military without actually being in it, is a coward? What about people that have a family to support, are they cowards for making that choice? Some fighters left their families to go over there, and died. Well isn't that great. Shot to death by a lousy stupid greaseball shithead of an Iraqi.

I can't imagine the morale over there right now. Can you imagine being sent in to do a job you were never trained to do - like rebuild a country - while looking over your shoulder to see where that last round of AK-47 fire came from? Those guys are the bravest men in the world, and I am not made of the same caliber. I'll admit it, it's a sorry job with minimal payoff, and I'm not interested. That doesn't mean that I don't support them 100%, and the president to the tune of about 90%. We need a new game plan, and fast.

I just hope these guys don't come home with the same sorry attitude you have towards civilians. You were put in an awful situation in Vietnam, and they are too. Maybe you're bitter because someone spit on you as you returned to American soil. Or maybe you got your legs shot off. Or maybe the Agent Orange is still fuckin with your neurotransmitters. But whatever it is, you can lay off dissing people that want to see this country remain sovereign and strong (the conservatives, not the Republicans).
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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-29-2003, 11:51 AM
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Hey, ya' gotta give it to him. He certainly brought this forum back to life.
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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-29-2003, 05:05 PM
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HI Sam... me again... good points. First I want to apologize for some (not all) of that stuff I said last night, I am not sure what got into me?

Let's start again with a few things....

I'll start with the ones that I can answer quickly...

My Dad's injury was not intentional as it was long before he would have been eligible for a draft. He was lived on a farm and his pistol discharged in his holster. In the side of his leg.

My issues with the military were not due to the military itself, but more the fact that I was 7 when he joined and it upset my enitre life, now when you live within bike riding distance of your friends and grandparents your whole life and then suddenly you are 1,200 miles away it was traumatic for me as a 7 year old to go thorugh that, I thought my life was over. To me the Army caused that and I had a mental block against it since.

Which Gulf War are you referring to that started before 1981? My father has served over 22 years now and including Saudi Arabia and likely Afghanistan this coming month. (Little different than a Navy stint)

The info on Clinton lying about 238 things came from a source you likely wouldn't agree with (the media). As far as this stuff about Bush lying, maybe he did and does, that wasn't the issue I had with your statement. You were saying these things like there was NEVER this type of stuff going on when cuzzin Bill was there getting BJ's under the desk in the Oval office.

The job situation is a bad deal for all Americans, but you if you think back a lot of the jobs created during Clinton's administration were often times with companies that were startups of different kinds that had no real sustainable business models. As with many things like that it sometimes takes a couple of years to see that these companies don't last and when they failed, the jobs went bye bye.

As far as not caring about the troops themselves... hmmm not true as many of my friends and customers were and are in the military. The first Gulf War was pretty much while I was in HS myself and I had to get my car searched for bombs every morning before I could go to school. The reality of the dangers they face are very sobering Facts are the majority signed themselves up for duty and therefore they should have known that the possibilty of combat would be there no matter how slim it would be.

I like you Sam... you made me think... I have to go to work now, but I'll get back to you on this...

J

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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-30-2003, 06:14 AM
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Truth hurts dont it.

46Tbird said:


:I find it hard to believe that someone who loves this country and supports the military would actually knock Bush and support Clinton.

Nice try to spin what I actually said. I know Bill Clinton was a lying asshole. I also KNOW that Bush is a lying asshole.

What pisses me off, is the double standard you right wing propagandist have.

Let us take a close look.

OOHH, Clinton smoked pot, and half-assed admitted it.

Bush used cocaine, and then answered the question with "well I didnt use it the first 17 years of my life, and havent used it the last XX years" (paraphrased because his answer changed from rime to time) And you right wingers interpret that as he NEVER did., I wouldnt accept that kink of lame excuse from one of my kids. They'd get their ass tore up with a belt if they tried something like that with me. Hell, yall even made a big deal out of Clintons "I didnt inhale" but you dont call Bush on his Bullshit excuse"

Clinton was a Draft Dodger. He got a college deferment. So did thouseands of guys. BTW, the military issue didnt come up when Bob Dole ran against Clinton. Ever wonder why ? Especially since Dole was a war hero. Because Jack Kemp, Dole's vice presidential candidate recieved a medical deferment, becsause of a football injury sustained at San Diego State. Then 6 months later, he was playing for the Buffalo Bills. How good did your knees have to be to go to Vietnam? You would think that if you were in good enough shape to play professional football you could carry a rifle in Vietnam

And Bush's military record. The best way to put it is. Some people wear the uniform to serve their country. And some wear it to AVOID serving their country. That is EXACTLY what Bush did. And further. He DESSERTED his unit. Not just AWOL. But DESSERTED.

What is worse , a draft dodger or a desserter?
I say a draftdodger has none of my respect, except that they stood for what they believed. A deserter like Bush is even lower, too scared and gutless to take a stand. Just like the people I am commenting about here.

Clinton lied. About sex.

Bush lied, in an effort to sway US public opinion towards sending troops to fight and die for their country. Just like his daddys administration did.

BIG DIFFERENCE THERE.

:You dumbass, all the "conservatives" that you have spoken to about their views are here in the good ol' US of A. The ones you haven't spoken to are in the desert with bullets whizzing past their heads.

Yeah, the ones here. Running their mouths. Not willing to join up and go to Iraq and relieve the troops there so that they can rotate home. My concerns are about those that have already won the war. And the lack of "standing for what we say we believe" by the right wingers back here.
And you dont know which troops there I have spoken with. I have spoken to several over the last few weeks. I have family memebers and friends there right now. That is why I know that this administration, for all their talk about supporting the troops, have allowed the situation to get so bad, that the troops are getting 2 meals a day, and their water rations have been cut in half. I wonder how many meals the president has missed lately. I wonder how many times he has been really thirsty and unabl;e to get a drink. Hell,, screw the president. How many meals have YOU missed lately?

:The idea that conservatives are cowards is obviously not based in fact.

I didnt say that all conservatives are cowards. What I did say is, that if you and others say that you BELIEVE in the reasons for this war, and you support this president and his war, and you are UNWILLING to enlist, pick up a weapon and go to relieve the troops that are currently there right now, YOU ARE A COWARD AND A TRAITOR,

The only EXCEPTION to that statement, are those that CAN NOT go. And I don t mean because of excuses. Those that are too old or physically unfit for duty. THAT does not include the disabilities of lack of intestinal foirtitude (NO Guts) or a pigmentation disorder ( Yellow Streakj down the Back)

: How many homosexual pot smoking liberals are in Iraq right now fending off Baath party loyalists?

I dont know. Do you?
Do you mean those that are all of the things you list? Are how about One item at a time? Yeah, I will answer that way.

Gays or HOMOs as you put it.
Hell yall tried to get all of the gays out of the military, but there are some still there. Is that why you wanted them out? Is it a sore spot to have homosexuals that have more guts and love for their country that are willing to fight for it when you are a chickenshit. Is it tough to know that they are more of a patriot than you? It must be awfully bad to have homos, that are better Americans, than you could ever dream of being.

Pot Smokers. See all of the reasons listed above.

Liberals. Hell, I am a liberal, and I served my country. And since there is a higher proportion of minorities and the poor compared to the population in the military, I would venture to say that there are a great number of liberls in the military now. Do you NOT SUPPORT the liberals that are in the military, or do you just contend that there are no liberals in the military.
Oh, you already implied that.


I know that you right wingers like to CLAIM thatb all the troops are republcians, but it just aint so. While there may be a high percentage of soldiers that have conservative views, Iknow that your attempt to portray the "Troops as Conservatives: is nothing but rank propaganda.

One more point. Just like Vietnam, there are those that support this war, and are unwilling to fight it. But the biggest difference NOW is, that the people like myself that protest this president and his war, do support the troops. We arent blaming the troops because of what an immoraly and cowardly punk like Bush does.

And any attempt to portray it differently is a lie and propaganda.
post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-30-2003, 07:17 AM
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A more reasoned response and reply

Jason94Cobra said:

:HI Sam... me again... good points. First I want to apologize for some (not all) of that stuff I said last night, I am not sure what got into me?

Hey there Jason.
Apology accepted, and let me extend my apologies if I came on too strong with you, not for my thoughts : )

Right before I responded to you, I had just got through BUSTING and EXPOSING cantdrive55, a loudmouthed rightwinged SOB, who CLAIMED he was a Marine Veteran of 8 years.
His problem was, he elaborated TOO much, and I PROVED he was lying through his teeth. See the post at

https://www.dfwstangs.net/forums/show...0&pagenumber=3

Its towards the bottom, just do a search on that page for BUSTED. There are 2 articls. The other a RW who cant manage an intelligent thought of his own. He has to steal his post and "Copy and Paste " them here.

Anyway, I was pretty pissed when I showed up here.

:Let's start again with a few things....

:I'll start with the ones that I can answer quickly...

:My Dad's injury was not intentional as it was long before he would have been eligible for a draft. He was lived on a farm and his pistol discharged in his holster. In the side of his leg.

I grew up hunting and am an avid hunter now. Gun safety is important, and just thankfully he didnt lose his life.

:My issues with the military were not due to the military itself, but more the fact that I was 7 when he joined and it upset my enitre life, now when you live within bike riding distance of your friends and grandparents your whole life and then suddenly you are 1,200 miles away it was traumatic for me as a 7 year old to go thorugh that, I thought my life was over. To me the Army caused that and I had a mental block against it since.

I guess that could be a bad experience. Having been born in the military, I never knew any differnt till I was almost 13. We moved so often that the 3 oldest kids in my family were born on 2 different continents, and lived in 8 different states by the time I started to school. We settled down right after dad got home from Vientam. He had had his fill of the military by then. He had planned to be a career man, Vietnam changed his mind about that.


:Which Gulf War are you referring to that started before

I said first Gulf War.

:My father has served over 22 years now and including Saudi Arabia and likely Afghanistan this coming month. (Little different than a Navy stint)

Lifer huh? Well tell your dad from me, to keep his head and butt down, and come home safe. And let me make this point to you. Alot of right wingers are trying to say that if you protest this president, or this war, you dont support the troops. THAT IS A FLAT OUT LIE. I supported our invasion of Afghanastan. And I support out troops without question or reservation.

Let me explain, I see it this way, I KNOW, that a soldier goes where he is told to go, fights who he is told to fight. They dont get to make a choice. Since that is the case, I figure that they are being sent to a place that is inherintly dangerous, with people shooting at you and other such stuff. Short of it is, they are being put into harms way, and they have to protect and defend themselves so that they come home safe and sound. To that end, I dont care what they have to do to accomplish that, just do it. Do whatever it takes to get home to their loved ones as best they can.

The other issues, like the reasons this friggin lying asshole president is sending them will be dealt with. Anyway, like I said, you tell your dad for me, to do whatever he has to, to get home to you and the rest of his family.

:The info on Clinton lying about 238 things came from a source you likely wouldn't agree with (the media). As far as this stuff about Bush lying, maybe he did and does, that wasn't the issue I had with your statement. You were saying these things like there was NEVER this type of stuff going on when cuzzin Bill was there getting BJ's under the desk in the Oval office.

Now now, If Bill had been lying. so that he could send troops into an unjustified war, I would have raised just as much hell. I guarantee that. I am not owned by any party. No one tells me what to think. No one. I know what I think is right. and I do my best to stand by my beliefs.

:The job situation is a bad deal for all Americans, but you if you think back a lot of the jobs created during Clinton's administration were often times with companies that were startups of different kinds that had no real sustainable business models. As with many things like that it sometimes takes a couple of years to see that these companies don't last and when they failed, the jobs went bye bye.

True to an extent. But not 4 million jobs. Besides that, we all heard how the first Tax Cut was going to stimulate job growth. It has only gotten much worse. And there seems to be an attitude when republicans are in office, that companies can do what they want when a republcan is in office. After all, a republican is the corporations best friend, and if a company wants to screw the people, then that is fine with the president. (see ENRON)

:As far as not caring about the troops themselves...

I was basing that on what you had said.

hmmm not true as many of my friends and customers were and are in the military. The first Gulf War was pretty much while I was in HS myself and I had to get my car searched for bombs every morning before I could go to school.

Now I dont remeber a real protest against the first Gulf War, not that extended to the troops and their families. I do know that during Vietnam, there were plenty of attacks and such things against army brats then. As a matter of fact, the asshole that lives and lived across the street from my wife and her parents as she was growing up, used to call my wifes father a baby killer and such things. He didnt say it to my father in law,(he was in Vietnam) but he used to tauntmy wife and her brothers and sisters. Stupid shit, like breaking windows, flattening tires. They caught him doing several things like that. Now he was a teenager at the time, but she was only 7 or 8 and he used to slap and hit her. He wouldnt slap her now. He said something smartassed to her shortly after she and I were married and I simply explained to him that I would rip his friggin head off his shoulders and shove it up his ass. He never pushed the issue and he has never spoken to her again.
BTW, he grew up to be a BIG TIME Bush supporter.

: The reality of the dangers they face are very sobering Facts are the majority signed themselves up for duty and therefore they should have known that the possibilty of combat would be there no matter how slim it would be.

I agree. BUT, that doesnt mean that the president doesnt owe it to them and the American people,. to make a good case for the war. Especially when it is pre-emptive. And if it is ever proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he lied, then he should be held accountable for soldiers dying, when it wasnt neccesary. Would you agree?

I think the evidence is already there. And if enough people become convinced of it, he is in DEEP shit. Now there are some that you will never convince. They are EXACTLY like the democrats that still say Clinton didnt lie.

:I like you Sam... you made me think... I have to go to work now, but I'll get back to you on this...

One more point, and then I must go, I have had to stop and start 30 times since I started this. I have a Computer System in San Antonio that is acting up and I have been waiting for someone to get into the office so that they can do some hands on trouble shooting. I can do alot of things from my computer here, but I can reach out and touch components from here.

My point is this. That these people, that are so all-fired up about sending people like your dad to go fight a war, and yet they dont think it is a war worthy of them sticking their butts on the line ?

Seems like if they really believed in it, they would be willing to fight it. And then there are alot of them, that are awfully brave, just so long as it is someone else that is going into harms way..

And I cant stand a coward like that.
post #21 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-30-2003, 09:29 AM
Lifer
 
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 33,187
Good fucking God, man. Can you not get your ideas across with fewer words? Let me give you some help brother ----> be CONCISE and TO THE POINT. Thanks.

Normally, I wouldn't do it; but this time I quoted your entire post so you could see for yourself how ridiculously long it is.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sam Breacher
46Tbird said:

:I find it hard to believe that someone who loves this country and supports the military would actually knock Bush and support Clinton.

Nice try to spin what I actually said. I know Bill Clinton was a lying asshole. I also KNOW that Bush is a lying asshole.

What pisses me off, is the double standard you right wing propagandist have.
Do you have any reading comprehension skills whatsoever? You obviously failed to notice that I said I support "the president to the tune of about 90%". I don't spew propoganda, I'll leave that to the moronic left-wing radicals. You say I put a spin on your words. I want you to show me the spin in saying:

"I find it hard to believe that someone who loves this country and supports the military would actually knock Bush and support Clinton."

That is a spin-free statement if there ever was one. It is clearly stated that it is MY opinion (not stated as a fact or a majority opinion), and it doesn't cast anyone mentioned in any kind of light. And then you go on forever about nothing here....
Quote:

Let us take a close look.

OOHH, Clinton smoked pot, and half-assed admitted it.

Bush used cocaine, and then answered the question with "well I didnt use it the first 17 years of my life, and havent used it the last XX years" (paraphrased because his answer changed from rime to time) And you right wingers interpret that as he NEVER did., I wouldnt accept that kink of lame excuse from one of my kids. They'd get their ass tore up with a belt if they tried something like that with me. Hell, yall even made a big deal out of Clintons "I didnt inhale" but you dont call Bush on his Bullshit excuse"

Clinton was a Draft Dodger. He got a college deferment. So did thouseands of guys. BTW, the military issue didnt come up when Bob Dole ran against Clinton. Ever wonder why ? Especially since Dole was a war hero. Because Jack Kemp, Dole's vice presidential candidate recieved a medical deferment, becsause of a football injury sustained at San Diego State. Then 6 months later, he was playing for the Buffalo Bills. How good did your knees have to be to go to Vietnam? You would think that if you were in good enough shape to play professional football you could carry a rifle in Vietnam

And Bush's military record. The best way to put it is. Some people wear the uniform to serve their country. And some wear it to AVOID serving their country. That is EXACTLY what Bush did. And further. He DESSERTED his unit. Not just AWOL. But DESSERTED.

What is worse , a draft dodger or a desserter?
I say a draftdodger has none of my respect, except that they stood for what they believed. A deserter like Bush is even lower, too scared and gutless to take a stand. Just like the people I am commenting about here.

Clinton lied. About sex.

Bush lied, in an effort to sway US public opinion towards sending troops to fight and die for their country. Just like his daddys administration did.

BIG DIFFERENCE THERE.
Now THAT my friend, is some FUCKING PROPOGANDA. You are trying to make me see that Bush is some sort of deadbeat and Clinton is somewhat less of a deadbeat. As if you hadn't alredy made that point about four miles above this post, in this same thread.

Okay, now I'll go ahead and respond to your response to my SECOND sentence:
Quote:
:You dumbass, all the "conservatives" that you have spoken to about their views are here in the good ol' US of A. The ones you haven't spoken to are in the desert with bullets whizzing past their heads.

Yeah, the ones here. Running their mouths. Not willing to join up and go to Iraq and relieve the troops there so that they can rotate home. My concerns are about those that have already won the war. And the lack of "standing for what we say we believe" by the right wingers back here.
And you dont know which troops there I have spoken with. I have spoken to several over the last few weeks. I have family memebers and friends there right now. That is why I know that this administration, for all their talk about supporting the troops, have allowed the situation to get so bad, that the troops are getting 2 meals a day, and their water rations have been cut in half. I wonder how many meals the president has missed lately. I wonder how many times he has been really thirsty and unabl;e to get a drink. Hell,, screw the president. How many meals have YOU missed lately?

:The idea that conservatives are cowards is obviously not based in fact.

I didnt say that all conservatives are cowards. What I did say is, that if you and others say that you BELIEVE in the reasons for this war, and you support this president and his war, and you are UNWILLING to enlist, pick up a weapon and go to relieve the troops that are currently there right now, YOU ARE A COWARD AND A TRAITOR,

The only EXCEPTION to that statement, are those that CAN NOT go. And I don t mean because of excuses. Those that are too old or physically unfit for duty. THAT does not include the disabilities of lack of intestinal foirtitude (NO Guts) or a pigmentation disorder ( Yellow Streakj down the Back)
This was funny, and elicited a laugh. Just thought you would like to know that.
Quote:
: How many homosexual pot smoking liberals are in Iraq right now fending off Baath party loyalists?

I dont know. Do you?
Do you mean those that are all of the things you list? Are how about One item at a time? Yeah, I will answer that way.

Gays or HOMOs as you put it.
Hell yall tried to get all of the gays out of the military, but there are some still there. Is that why you wanted them out? Is it a sore spot to have homosexuals that have more guts and love for their country that are willing to fight for it when you are a chickenshit. Is it tough to know that they are more of a patriot than you? It must be awfully bad to have homos, that are better Americans, than you could ever dream of being.

Pot Smokers. See all of the reasons listed above.

Liberals. Hell, I am a liberal, and I served my country. And since there is a higher proportion of minorities and the poor compared to the population in the military, I would venture to say that there are a great number of liberls in the military now. Do you NOT SUPPORT the liberals that are in the military, or do you just contend that there are no liberals in the military.
Oh, you already implied that.

I know that you right wingers like to CLAIM thatb all the troops are republcians, but it just aint so. While there may be a high percentage of soldiers that have conservative views, Iknow that your attempt to portray the "Troops as Conservatives: is nothing but rank propaganda.

One more point. Just like Vietnam, there are those that support this war, and are unwilling to fight it. But the biggest difference NOW is, that the people like myself that protest this president and his war, do support the troops. We arent blaming the troops because of what an immoraly and cowardly punk like Bush does.

And any attempt to portray it differently is a lie and propaganda.
Well, I guess if MORE means RIGHT, then you win. I can't keep up with a minimum 1000-word essay with every response. However, if you edit out all the rambling and the McVeighisms, you really don't have any points except these two:

1. You hate George W Bush
2. You fought in "Nam", therefore that gives you the right to bash anyone who has not served in the military

I wonder why you consider yourself a "liberal", because you seem to me to be more of a reactionary conservative individual. If you consider the fact that a lot of GWBs policies are more "liberal" (i.e., sending million$ in AIDS relief to Africa, reckless defecit spending, LYING , etc..) then that seems to make some sense. Think about that.

<------ eagerly awaiting another rambling diatribe that will take 10mins to read
46Tbird is offline  
post #22 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-31-2003, 09:37 AM
 
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OK I didn't read the entire post but here goes. I have been in the Army since I was 17, I am now 21. I work with the recruiters in East Texas. Right now the Army is at 105% over strength. Of course they the majority to get out once the stop loss goes out of effect.
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post #23 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-31-2003, 10:21 AM
 
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Posts: 134
Dammit Red, you traitorous coward. How come you aren't over there humping a pack and taking fire?

Just kidding. Thanks for your service.

That said, please don't provide facts to the fanatics. They don't want them. They will ignore them. They will call them lies, damn lies and then label you a liar.

The next thing out of their foaming mouths will be Well, what about WMD? Huh? We haven't found any WMD!

Never mind the all the conventional munitions that were modified to carry chem and bio weapons that we have cataloged. When modified in the manner they were, they are useless except as a chem or bio weapon. These are not defensive weapons.

Also pay no attention to the missiles that exceeded range limitations and payload restrictions. Instead focus only on the fact that we didn't find a complete, intact, smoking fat boy with Saddam sitting on top of it.

And you know what? Even if we had walked in on him humping Jane Fonda on top of a nuke with plans for the destruction of Israel tatooed on his ass... all they would scream is well what about North Korea? Huh?

The fact is more and more their party is being hijacked by people like Sam. Their gnashing of teeth and talking in tongues is doing a fine job of alienating all but the most radical of their party. I welcome Sam and Carville and Begala. I think they should be front and center. They should "represent". That is the absolute best thing the can do for the rest of us.

Lastly, lest anyone question my patriotism, I served in the 70's, 80's and 90's. In fact, I probably have more time on a military shitter than Sam served.

Happy Motoring

Monroe
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post #24 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-31-2003, 10:25 AM
Lifer
 
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Posts: 14,842
Quote:
Even if we had walked in on him humping Jane Fonda on top of a nuke with plans for the destruction of Israel tatooed on his ass...
Quote:
Instead focus only on the fact that we didn't find a complete, intact, smoking fat boy with Saddam sitting on top of it.
Now thats funny.

One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America

If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
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post #25 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-31-2003, 01:55 PM
 
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Posts: 2,478
Sam you are very informed I'll give you that. I am very simple
and not the sharpest knife in the draw so break it down for
me.

Clinton down sized the crap out of the Military we all know this.
Clinton also started wars but never really jumped in with both
feet. So was he right?

Bush has gotten us into this mess with Iraq that seems
to get worse everyday. Now can we all pretend that 9/11
never happened and just look the other way.


I too have my DD-214 and was deemed smart enough to
carry M-16A2 when Reagan was in power. Back when Russia
was a issue and in my mind will always be.
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