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post #1 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 10:39 AM Thread Starter
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Why does terrorism exist?

Let's talk about this for a minute.. and yes, I am singling out Middle Eastern terrorism for the purposes of this discussion.

I want to know why so many people are willing to commit suicide and murder innocent civilians for their cause. I am appalled at the sheer number of people that think this is a way to get their message across.

I want to know why Palestenians and other Muslim groups ARE NOT speaking out against terrorism. Their silence in the face of murder and terror is unbelievable.

Why is the US so hard-line on protecting Israel's interests and not the Palestinians?

Is there any chance for peace in the area? I really don't see it, until one group is driven into the dirt. It's become like the Hatfield and McCoys, where the only reason why we hate you is because you are the sworn enemy.

Your comments are appreciated. Lengthy replies welcome.

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post #2 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 10:50 AM
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Re: Why does terrorism exist?

Quote:
Originally posted by 46Tbird
Let's talk about this for a minute.. and yes, I am singling out Middle Eastern terrorism for the purposes of this discussion.

I want to know why so many people are willing to commit suicide and murder innocent civilians for their cause. I am appalled at the sheer number of people that think this is a way to get their message across.

I want to know why Palestenians and other Muslim groups ARE NOT speaking out against terrorism. Their silence in the face of murder and terror is unbelievable.

Why is the US so hard-line on protecting Israel's interests and not the Palestinians - hell, Israel DID steal the land.

Is there any chance for peace in the area? I really don't see it, until one group is driven into the dirt. It's become like the Hatfield and McCoys, where the only reason why we hate you is because you are the sworn enemy.

Your comments are appreciated. Lengthy replies welcome.


there will never be "peace" in that region....at least not until the end of times. (if you subscribe to biblical prophecy).

Also, Isreal did not steal anything, you should do some research before you post shit like that. It makes you look stupid.

And finally, they are maryters if they kill in the name of Allah and there is no better postition to have than that of a marytr. So, to them it is a way of life.
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post #3 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 11:04 AM
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I think Israel was created by UN resolution 181 in 1947 or 1948. In order to make that happen, the Arabs who were living in that region were forced out. I say "forced" out but I wasn't there to see it happen. I am not too clear on how much the Israeli's and the Arabs hated each other before that.

Why does the US support Israel so much? The Jewish population in the US is pretty big and it carries a lot of political clout.
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post #4 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 11:05 AM
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I am no Middle East historian, but Israel did not steal any land. There are disputing claims to land in that region. I also have problems with the palestinian stance that all Jews should die. Muslims proclaim to be peaceful people, but they extremists of their kind sure don't seem to be worried about backlash from the more moderates.

There have been people willing to die for their country and for martyrdom throughout time. The palestinian terrorists are somewhat unique in that they are willing to kill innocent women and children, not just military targets.

There will never be peace in that region, but then again, there has never been peace in that region.

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post #5 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by PWTRTXSS
I think Israel was created by UN resolution 181 in 1947 or 1948. In order to make that happen, the Arabs who were living in that region were forced out. I say "forced" out but I wasn't there to see it happen. I am not too clear on how much the Israeli's and the Arabs hated each other before that.

here is a little back history....looooooong!!

The Arab world has certainly demonstrated great skill in the "myth" of imagination. They have done such a good job that they have convinced much of the world that their "myths" are facts. Perhaps their biggest myth is the myth of Palestine. The Arab world would have us believe that the Palestinians have been in "Palestine" from "time immemorial" but were displaced by the Jews when Israel became a state in 1948. But what are the facts?
While we are not certain of the exact dates, Joshua conquered the Land God promised the Jews in the 13th century BCE. King David established Jerusalem as the capital of Israel around 1000 BCE. King Solomon built the Jewish Temple about 960 BCE. This was almost 1000 years before the beginning of Christianity and 1600 years before the rise of Islam. As Prime Minister Barak has noted, "When Jesus came to Jerusalem to celebrate the feasts, he didn't come to a church or a mosque, he came to the Temple." It is not the Church Mount or the Mosque Mount that is fought over, it is the Temple Mount. It was the Temple Mount centuries before Christianity tried to make it the Church Mount and Islam tried to make it the Mosque Mount.
However, not to be confused with facts, in a personal audience I had several years ago with the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who was appointed by Arafat, he boldly declared that the Arabs had been living in the Land for 10,000 years. Based on conservative Bible chronology, that means the Arabs have been living in the Land before the Almighty created Adam and Eve.
How did Israel become Palestine and who are the Palestinians? The second Jewish war with the Romans took place in 132-135 CE. Led by Rabbi Akiva and Simon bar Kochba, the Jewish uprising was crushed by the Roman Emperor Hadrian who sought to de-Judaize Jerusalem and make it a pagan city. Hadrian renamed Jerusalem "Aelia Capitolina" in honor of Jupiter. He changed the name of Judea and gave it the name of the Jews ancient enemy, the Philistines. He called it -- Palestine.
Over time, Palestine was ruled by the Roman Byzantines (312-637) [Persian interrupt 614-629], Omayyad Arabs (638-750), Islamic Abbassid's (750-1099), Crusaders (1099-1291) [Saladin the Kurd interrupt 1187-93], Mamluks (1291-1516), Ottoman Turks (1517-1917), and the British Mandate (1917-1948). None of these rulers established a sovereign state in the Land and Jerusalem was never the capital of any empire since the time of King David. Palestine was a forgotten desolate, wasteland, but historical records show there was always a Jewish presence in the Land.
The revival of modern Jewish life in the Land began in the 1880's with the arrival of Russian refugees from the Russian pogroms. A second wave of immigration, also from Russia, was in 1905. This was followed by later immigrations resulting in a growing Jewish population in the Land. When the Jews came to the Land, they found a malaria infested swamp in the north and an uninhabitable desert in the south. It was as if the God of the Bible had kept the Land hidden away in obscurity until the rightful owners -- the Jews returned to claim it.
The Jewish pioneers did not steal the Land from the Arabs. They purchased the Land at highly inflated prices from absentee landlords living outside the Land. As the Jews worked the Land, it began to prosper. While there were Jews and Arabs living in the Land, there were many poor migrant Arab farm workers in the surrounding Arab countries who needed work. When they heard that the Land was prospering under the hand of the Jews, they migrated to Palestine to get work from the Jews. Furthermore, the British allowed many thousands of Arabs into Palestine illegally while barring the Jews from entering the Land. For the most part, the Arab Palestinians are these peasant farm workers and illegal aliens.
"Palestinians" have never been a distinct people, they have never had a sovereign land called Palestine, Jerusalem has never been their capital, there is no Palestinian language or culture, and there is no Palestinian people. It is a myth created after the Jews liberated Jerusalem in 1967.
Before the birth of the State of Israel, Arab leaders themselves denied the existence of an Arab country called Palestine. In 1937, Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi said, "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. 'Palestine" is alien to us; it is the Zionists who introduced it." In 1946, a distinguished Princeton professor and Arab historian said, "There is no such thing as Palestine in Arab history, absolutely not."
All who lived in the Land, Jews, Arabs, and Christians, were called Palestinians. In fact, the Jerusalem Post was called the Palestinian Post. Under the British Mandate, the Palestinian Jews were given a state. But before this state came into existence, Colonial Secretary, Winston Churchill, in 1922, took away seventy-seven percent of the geographic area promised to the Jews and created Transjordan as a state for the Palestinian Arabs. Israel would be for the Palestinian Jews and Transjordan (now Jordan) for the Palestinian Arabs.
Israel became a state in the War of Independence in 1948. At that time, approximately 600,000 Arabs fled to become refugee pawns in the hands of neighboring Arab states. Some number of Arabs stayed to become Israeli citizens. While we certainly sympathize with the plight of the Arab refugees, their problems could easily be solved if their Arab brothers cared enough to assimilate them as the Jews did their own 800,000 immigrants from the Arab countries.
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post #6 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by red93coupe
Also, Isreal did not steal anything, you should do some research before you post shit like that. It makes you look stupid.
There, I edited the post for the sake of keeping the tone of the discussion neutral. You call me 'stupid' again, and I'll e-bloody your e-nose you slack-jaw faggot.
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post #7 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 11:21 AM
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There, I edited the post for the sake of keeping the tone of the discussion neutral. You call me 'stupid' again, and I'll e-bloody your e-nose you slack-jaw faggot.
good boy!

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post #8 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 11:25 AM
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Re: Why does terrorism exist?

Quote:
Originally posted by 46Tbird

Why is the US so hard-line on protecting Israel's interests and not the Palestinians?

just wait...in the comming years that will change. We're the only people left who do truly back Israel.

the reason: I think it comes down to the fact that the middle east region w/the exception of Israel is largely anti-west and are/and have always been supporters of terrorist orgs. While Israel has peace treaties with two of its neighbors, Egypt and Jordan, the Jewish state remains a regional outcast whose close ties to America are among its most important strategic assets. Since President Truman recognized Israel in May 1948, the two countries have had what historians call a “special relationship”—shaped by American admiration for Israeli democracy; Cold War maneuvering; U.S. distaste for Arab aggression and terrorism; long-standing congressional support for Israel; American guilt over turning away Jewish refugees fleeing Nazi Germany; the clout of the pro-Israel lobby; Christian interest in the holy land; and Israel’s value to America as a stable, reliable friend with a formidable military, a legendary intelligence service, and common values.


Simple terms: we get along.

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post #9 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 11:41 AM
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You confused me red93coupe, if your narrative is supporting the US backing Israel, why would you say our support of Israel is about to change?

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post #10 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 11:48 AM
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There is so much dis-information in the article posted, I don't know where to begin. But past ancient history doesn't matter, because if you make your case based on that, then we need to deliver the US back to Native Americans. Texas back to Mexico.

Israel is a country, the only globally recognized state, without defined borders. They continually to setup illegal settlements (as defined by the same organization that gave them their land) that expand their non-borders. When they do this, they displace Palestinians by the 1000s.

Israel has continually defied UN resolutions. The same organization's resolutions given as one of the reasons for invading Iraq.

'Nuff about that...


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post #11 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by 90 Notch
You confused me red93coupe, if your narrative is supporting the US backing Israel, why would you say our support of Israel is about to change?
well, again, this comes back to how the bible and biblical prophecy comes into play in world politics.

the bible states that all nations will turn their back on Israel as we get closer to the time of tribulation. incidently, it is at this distant time that there will be actual peace in the middle east, then it all goes to shit.

we have already seen US support of israel back off a little bit.....it's just a matter of time.
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post #12 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 11:49 AM
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He's an idiot for thinking that will change soon. Israel, for #1, has the second most powerful airforce to only us, and their pilots are often a LOT more skilled in maneuvering, dog fighting, etc. Israel is consequently a HUGE buyer of american made planes (f-16s, etc).. Also, it has nothing to do with the "large jewish population" in the United States.
Quote:
The Jewish population in the US is pretty big and it carries a lot of political clout.

please elaborate as to how the jewish population has such a strong force, while there are multiple times as many blacks, mexicans, etc. in this country, that seem to have no pull in anything.
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post #13 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 11:51 AM
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Re: Re: Why does terrorism exist?

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Originally posted by red93coupe
the reason: I think it comes down to the fact that the middle east region w/the exception of Israel is largely anti-west and are/and have always been supporters of terrorist orgs. While Israel has peace treaties with two of its neighbors, Egypt and Jordan, the Jewish state remains a regional outcast whose close ties to America are among its most important strategic assets. Since President Truman recognized Israel in May 1948, the two countries have had what historians call a “special relationship”—shaped by American admiration for Israeli democracy; Cold War maneuvering; U.S. distaste for Arab aggression and terrorism; long-standing congressional support for Israel; American guilt over turning away Jewish refugees fleeing Nazi Germany; the clout of the pro-Israel lobby; Christian interest in the holy land; and Israel’s value to America as a stable, reliable friend with a formidable military, a legendary intelligence service, and common values.


Simple terms: we get along.
The reason the ME is so "anti-west" is because of the support of Israel by the US. The US didn't give two shits about the ME until Israel became Israel.

Israel democracy is an oxymoron. If they didn't kick out 100s of thousands of Arabs from their lands, the land would be ruled as an Islamic state. Easy to have a democracy when you kick out all the dissenting votes.
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post #14 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 11:51 AM
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the bible also prophesizes peace throughout the world before the second coming, and i sure see that coming soon..

maybe the US is backing off of it's aid to isreal because the people A) dont NEED it, and B) are wary of their western ways, and political system, etc.

the jews have been pushed all over the place throughout time, where the hell else would they live if it weren't for israel. The arabs can't be happy with their millions of square miles of land, they want the little peice that the jewish community has...
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post #15 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
There is so much dis-information in the article posted, I don't know where to begin. But past ancient history doesn't matter, because if you make your case based on that, then we need to deliver the US back to Native Americans. Texas back to Mexico.

Israel is a country, the only globally recognized state, without defined borders. They continually to setup illegal settlements (as defined by the same organization that gave them their land) that expand their non-borders. When they do this, they displace Palestinians by the 1000s.

Israel has continually defied UN resolutions. The same organization's resolutions given as one of the reasons for invading Iraq.

'Nuff about that...


http://www.mediamonitors.net/jamesjdavid1.html

Very good article. Written by retired Brigadier General and graduate of the US Army's Command And General Staff College.
i figured you'd chime in on this one. the only reason that israel sets up "settlements" is to protect their "borders" from terrorist activites based out of Palestine. Israel does not occupy any other terrirtories for sake of being thre, it is to protect what little they do have. Every military action they take is defensive.

why is everyone so against Israel's right to exist?
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post #16 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by red93coupe
Israel does not occupy any other terrirtories for sake of being thre, it is to protect what little they do have. Every military action they take is defensive.

why is everyone so against Israel's right to exist?

amen


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post #17 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 11:54 AM
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the bible also prophesizes peace throughout the world before the second coming, and i sure see that coming soon..

maybe the US is backing off of it's aid to isreal because the people A) dont NEED it, and B) are wary of their western ways, and political system, etc.

the jews have been pushed all over the place throughout time, where the hell else would they live if it weren't for israel. The arabs can't be happy with their millions of square miles of land, they want the little peice that the jewish community has...
just wait...maybe you will
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post #18 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 11:55 AM
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just wait...maybe you will

lol, and the church hasn't been using that one for hundreds of years. "just have faith, it's bound to happen eventually"..


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post #19 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 11:55 AM
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i figured you'd chime in on this one. the only reason that israel sets up "settlements" is to protect their "borders" from terrorist activites based out of Palestine. Israel does not occupy any other terrirtories for sake of being thre, it is to protect what little they do have. Every military action they take is defensive.

why is everyone so against Israel's right to exist?
I'm not against Israel's right to exist. They can exist all they want. They were given the land. Now, its, "Oh, its too small, we need some more" and they setup illegal settlements in areas not granted them.

Its quite a stretch to say these settlements are for their defense. Since they put regular civilians in those areas. Its expansion, pure and simple. Again, the only recognized state that does not have defined borders.

Sort of like Mexico wanting Texas back. Kick our ass to Oklahoma.

Israel has been more of a terrorist influence on that region than the Palestinians ever have been.
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post #20 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 11:57 AM
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why is everyone so against Israel's right to exist?
Good question, anyone have an answer not based in hate for Jews?

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post #21 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 11:57 AM
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Israel has been more of a terrorist influence on that region than the Palestinians ever have been.
no offense meant,

but GET WITH THE TIMES OLD MAN!

how many jews go blowing themselves up in the name od adonai? exactley. What part of 9-11, or any terrorist action for that matter, did israel take part in?

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post #22 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by lowthreeohz
their western ways, and political system, etc.

the jews have been pushed all over the place throughout time, where the hell else would they live if it weren't for israel. The arabs can't be happy with their millions of square miles of land, they want the little peice that the jewish community has...
true....so true. and the arab world ddin't give 2 shits about that territory until it was given to Israel. In fact, that "Arab world" is a joke in and of itself b/c there is so much infighting there that the only thing they can agree on is hatred for the US and Israel.

It really has nothing to do with Palestine needing their own land, they are not even a people...they have no culture or history. Simply, they want it to want it, the land that is.
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post #23 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 12:01 PM
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Israel has been more of a terrorist influence on that region than the Palestinians ever have been.
C'mon now, do you really believe that?

I would love to see how much territory the Israeli's take if the homicide bombers would stop for a year or so.

That statement is what the Taliban feels about America, and I am sure you can see through that. There is no way we were terrorists in Afghanistan.

Since when are Israeli's sending state sponsored homicide bombers into palestian or muslim countries killing women and children? Isn't that the bigger terrorist influence?

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post #24 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by 90 Notch
C'mon now, do you really believe that?

I would love to see how much territory the Israeli's take if the homicide bombers would stop for a year or so.

That statement is what the Taliban feels about America, and I am sure you can see through that. There is no way we were terrorists in Afghanistan.

Since when are Israeli's sending state sponsored homicide bombers into palestian or muslim countries killing women and children? Isn't that the bigger terrorist influence?
exactly.....
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post #25 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra
I'm not against Israel's right to exist. They can exist all they want. They were given the land. Now, its, "Oh, its too small, we need some more" and they setup illegal settlements in areas not granted them.

Its quite a stretch to say these settlements are for their defense. Since they put regular civilians in those areas. Its expansion, pure and simple. Again, the only recognized state that does not have defined borders.

Sort of like Mexico wanting Texas back. Kick our ass to Oklahoma.

Israel has been more of a terrorist influence on that region than the Palestinians ever have been.
Please! Mexico? That is a whole different story, the land never belonged to Palestine to begin with and you know it! Plus, there is no dispute over this territory!

It's funny that you always try to play away from any bias but you are more biased in your arguments on this topic than anyone else (besides me!).
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post #26 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by 01WhiteCobra



http://www.mediamonitors.net/jamesjdavid1.html

Very good article. Written by retired Brigadier General and graduate of the US Army's Command And General Staff College.

HAHA! this is the most pro-palestinian anti american crap i have ever read. look at this other article......your source is really reaching!!

http://www.mediamonitors.net/jamesjdavid8.html

Liberman is painted as a anti-american who supports attacking Iraq on behalf of Israel alone? I'm certainly no liberal but this "general" is nuts!!!
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post #27 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by lowthreeohz
no offense meant,

but GET WITH THE TIMES OLD MAN!

how many jews go blowing themselves up in the name od adonai? exactley. What part of 9-11, or any terrorist action for that matter, did israel take part in?
It is how you define terrorism. Your narrow view sees terrorism as people blowing up others at cafes.

A good example, supported by the UN denouncing it and declaring it an act of genocide happened in the Sabra and Chatila.

Begin and Sharon decided to take west Beruit, although it constituted a breach in the cease-fire. It was also against their word to Reagan not to enter.

In Sept, they occupied West Beruit.

3 units of 50 men entered Sabra and Chatila and commenced to killing all the refugees. It lasted until the next day. 12 hours of constant murders.

3000-5000 estimated dead. A number similiar to 9/11. Old men, women, child among the dead.

This is just one act.
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post #28 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by red93coupe
HAHA! this is the most pro-palestinian anti american crap i have ever read. look at this other article......your source is really reaching!!

http://www.mediamonitors.net/jamesjdavid8.html

Liberman is painted as a anti-american who supports attacking Iraq on behalf of Israel alone? I'm certainly no liberal but this "general" is nuts!!!
I forgot, the world revolves around FoxNews.

If the article is crap, then refute it. If you can't, shut up.
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post #29 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by 90 Notch
C'mon now, do you really believe that?

I would love to see how much territory the Israeli's take if the homicide bombers would stop for a year or so.

That statement is what the Taliban feels about America, and I am sure you can see through that. There is no way we were terrorists in Afghanistan.

Since when are Israeli's sending state sponsored homicide bombers into palestian or muslim countries killing women and children? Isn't that the bigger terrorist influence?
Notch, they have been taking it for the better part of the last half century. Before suicide bombers.
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post #30 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 12:29 PM
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I forgot, the world revolves around FoxNews.

If the article is crap, then refute it. If you can't, shut up.
aren't you supposed to be intelligent? you can't dispute an article based soley on opinion. There is no factual data in that article.

to be honest, show me a better source of unbiased news and I'll tune in......
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post #31 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 12:30 PM
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Notch, they have been taking it for the better part of the last half century. Before suicide bombers.

taking it? from whom? Palestine never had any rights to that land to begin with.
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post #32 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 12:32 PM
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aren't you supposed to be intelligent? you can't dispute an article based soley on opinion. There is no factual data in that article.

to be honest, show me a better source of unbiased news and I'll tune in......
No but you can debate an article based opinion. Sort of like we are doing here.
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post #33 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 12:33 PM
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It is how you define terrorism. Your narrow view sees terrorism as people blowing up others at cafes.

A good example, supported by the UN denouncing it and declaring it an act of genocide happened in the Sabra and Chatila.

Begin and Sharon decided to take west Beruit, although it constituted a breach in the cease-fire. It was also against their word to Reagan not to enter.

In Sept, they occupied West Beruit.

3 units of 50 men entered Sabra and Chatila and commenced to killing all the refugees. It lasted until the next day. 12 hours of constant murders.

3000-5000 estimated dead. A number similiar to 9/11. Old men, women, child among the dead.

This is just one act.

yea, and that is just a fraction of the pain visited on the jews throughout history!!! I'm not saying that every move Isreal makes is on the money, but they are NOT a terrorist statr and will never be one.
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post #34 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 12:37 PM
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No but you can debate an article based opinion. Sort of like we are doing here.
granted, but I haven't posted obscure articles w/no factual data and you did. I won't step up to the podium unless I have factual data to back MY opinion. So, I can't address that acrticle directly b/c there is no one sigle point to argue....i disagree with it in it's entirety.
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post #35 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 12:45 PM
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taking it? from whom? Palestine never had any rights to that land to begin with.
Palestinians have as much right to their land as the Israelis do to their land.

If Israel would simply return back to its pre-1967 borders, much of the hatred and terrorism would stop.
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post #36 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 12:48 PM
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Palestinians have as much right to their land as the Israelis do to their land.

If Israel would simply return back to its pre-1967 borders, much of the hatred and terrorism would stop.

unfortunatley, that's not true......sure, the PLO will say that's all they want, but it won't stop b/c they hate Israel; that's it.
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post #37 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 12:48 PM
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granted, but I haven't posted obscure articles w/no factual data and you did. I won't step up to the podium unless I have factual data to back MY opinion. So, I can't address that acrticle directly b/c there is no one sigle point to argue....i disagree with it in it's entirety.
I can see why now, I missed typed the link. Proof-reading posts in this forum is a must and I fucked up. Definetly not what I wanted to post and yes, I do disgree with quite a bit of what was in the article I posted. Sorry again.


http://www.mediamonitors.net/jamesjdavid1.html
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post #38 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 12:50 PM
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unfortunatley, that's not true......sure, the PLO will say that's all they want, but it won't stop b/c they hate Israel; that's it.
Bullshit. That offer has been on the table for years. Israel will not get out of the occupied terrorities.
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post #39 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 01:56 PM
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Bullshit. That offer has been on the table for years. Israel will not get out of the occupied terrorities.
And they keep building new settlements. Can you feel the love?

In all fairness, Israel did have to kick some major ass in 1967. I would tell Syria to kiss my ass if they were asking me for the return of the Golan Heights.



Last edited by PWTRTXSS; 05-19-2003 at 02:09 PM.
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post #40 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 03:01 PM
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If Israel would simply return back to its pre-1967 borders, much of the hatred and terrorism would stop.
I will have to disagree with you on this one. with all that has happened over the years, giving back the land they took would not relieve the pain and anger toward the Israel. kind of like if bin laden in 20 yrs said he is sorry, do you think the american people would be hey it is ok. No they would still want to burn him on the cross.

And 01WC was correct that Israel is more of the aggressor and commits more terrorist attacts then any other. Even the UN wanted to intervene(sp?) and the US vetoed it. The middle east, according to the bible is the begining of the end. We started a war, now if we can only finish it, and by that I mean don't stop till till the control of those regions are no longer under extreme Muslim leadership.
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post #41 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 03:41 PM
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I guess we can agree to disagree about Israel being the aggressor or not, but every time I see Israel attacking it is in response to an attack on innocent civilians or a pre-emptive strike on terrorists.

I don't think we will ever see a day when one side stops and it all ends. I have a feeling that if Israel stopped retaliating for homicide bombers attcks, they would not stop.

I think there is a much greater chance that if homicide bombers stopped, Israel would stop.

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post #42 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by 90 Notch
I guess we can agree to disagree about Israel being the aggressor or not, but every time I see Israel attacking it is in response to an attack on innocent civilians or a pre-emptive strike on terrorists.

I don't think we will ever see a day when one side stops and it all ends. I have a feeling that if Israel stopped retaliating for homicide bombers attcks, they would not stop.

I think there is a much greater chance that if homicide bombers stopped, Israel would stop.
well there was a time when there was a cease fire, and then two or three days later there were Israeli tanks rolling into some city, I can't remember which one, but that started it all up again.
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post #43 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 04:20 PM
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boo fucking hoo. You live in a country that is small enough to fly over in 11 minutes, and your ass would be fighting for ever last acre of it too!
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post #44 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 04:23 PM
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Isn't it mostly about religion? In a "good percentage", to try and be as close to PC as possible, it's said that it's considered brave, and favored by the gods, to sacrifice yourself like that for your country or religion.
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post #45 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 04:23 PM
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boo fucking hoo. You live in a country that is small enough to fly over in 11 minutes, and your ass would be fighting for ever last acre of it too!



I am just stating facts about some of the things they have done that were terrorist act in nature. I support Israel, but at some point we have to step in and force a cease fire other wise we will face another terror much like 9-11
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post #46 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 04:27 PM
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Isn't it mostly about religion? In a "good percentage", to try and be as close to PC as possible, it's said that it's considered brave, and favored by the gods, to sacrifice yourself like that for your country or religion.
not in judaism.
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post #47 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 04:29 PM
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not in judaism.
wait weren't they a part of the holy wars? if so then they follow the same path as everybody else.
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post #48 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 04:41 PM
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I think it would be nice to see homicide bombings stop for more than 3 or 4 days, come on now. I just err on the side of the people who go after startegic targets, not city busses with children, college students, and Americans on them.

Quote:
not in judaism.
Has there ever been a Jewish homicide bomber? I doubt it.

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post #49 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 04:49 PM
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wait weren't they a part of the holy wars? if so then they follow the same path as everybody else.
no...they weren't.
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post #50 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-19-2003, 05:50 PM
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Has there ever been a Jewish homicide bomber? I doubt it.
Dr. Baruch Goldstein, a past member of the Jewish Defense League and member of the Kach group, opened fire in a mosque in Hebron killing 29 and injuring lots more. He then killed himself.

So yes, there has been at least one jewish suicide bomber.

Irv Rubin, then chairman of the JDL, was arrested in plot to kill a US Congressman Darrell Issa (a republican, a grandson of Lebanese grandparents. Read: he was second generation American). He killed himself in prison before his trial.

There have been Jewish terrorists since the 30s.

The JDL has also been accused (by the FBI/CIA) of bombing the San Francisco branch of the Iranian bank Melli in 1981, bombed the Iraq UN Mission in 1982, 1985 the offices of the Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee. A score of JDL members were convicted in 1987 of a variety of criminal charges. Again, all on US soil.
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