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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-05-2002, 04:09 PM Thread Starter
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After a week with Linux...

I installed Red Hat 8.0 a week ago. It took me a good 4 hours to download all of the ISO images from the mirrored sites. After downloading I created the CD's and started the installation process. This is the 4th time I've installed Red Hat, so I had a basic knowledge of what was needed. Here comes my first complaint. After burning the CD's I popped the first CD into the CD-Rom drive of my laptop and proceeded to boot of the CD. I chose the graphical install, selected my mouse, keyboard layout, etc. Picked the "basic" installation package but the installation would not go any further. I rebooted and tried again, same thing, it would get as far as letting me choose which installation of RH I wanted and then it would not let me go any further. After trying a few times I decided to go back and use the "non-graphical" install. This part went flawlessly, no problems and KUDZU was able to properly detect everything I had without any problems. After installation I booted into GNOME... took much longer to boot up and shut down when compared to XP. My first impression of GNOME is that the overall quality of the picture is much improved over XP, at least on the desktop, while using Mozilla to browse or viewing JPEG's the quality of the pictures seem to not be as clear or crisp vs. Windows XP, not sure why that is. Next I tried to re-configure my mouse ( wheel mouse ) but when i did the cursor jumped to the right hand corner of the screen and would not let me use the mouse at all. I had to manually shut the computer down and bring it back up. Once booted up again the mouse worked fine, the wheel functioned without a glitch. Another complaint is Mozilla, while it's a decent browser, it takes a good 10 - 15 seconds to come up after I click on the icon. This only happens the first time, after I have one browser window open any subsequent browser window opens instantly, this also goes for any app I've used so far. When opening something for the first time, it seems to take much longer in Linux vs. it's MS counterpart, once opened everything seems as quick. Another complaint is that Evolution ( e-mail client ) does not offer an option for connecting to an Exchange Server, for the time I'm reading my work e-mail via Outlook Web Access, which works fine except for the lack of features Outlook XP has. I also don't like the fact that even thoug GNOME has a hundreds of other applications it doesn't come with a decent video player. I have been unable to play an MPEG, AVI, or WMV files. Other than these things everything is working fine... hasn't frozen on my yet ( except for the incident with the mouse ).

If any of you Linux user have suggestions that may help me, please let me know. If you have a decent video player that will play MPEG, AVI and WMV files, please let me know ( must have DIVX codec ). Also if there are any FREE Outlook-like mail applications out there, please let me know where I can download them. Thanks.
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-05-2002, 04:19 PM
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lol Drop the Penquin.
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-05-2002, 04:34 PM
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Download mplayer and install it, plays all video files but real video and quicktime ( but you can get them to work in mplayer ). www.divx.com to download the codec.

As far as the browser is considered, you have to realize that internet explorer is intergrated into the OS, its basically Windows Explorer with HTML ability, have you ever noticed it takes a lot longer to load up netscape in windows then it does IE? Mozilla isnt intergrated, if you want something faster, try Galeon, or perhaps Konquerer(sp?). They both use mozilla as the basis. You mouse issue really just required a restart of the x windows system and not the entire computer. Installation issues have been reported with certain Savage4 video cards, which video card do you have?
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-05-2002, 04:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by AbecX
Download mplayer and install it, plays all video files but real video and quicktime ( but you can get them to work in mplayer ). www.divx.com to download the codec.

As far as the browser is considered, you have to realize that internet explorer is intergrated into the OS, its basically Windows Explorer with HTML ability, have you ever noticed it takes a lot longer to load up netscape in windows then it does IE? Mozilla isnt intergrated, if you want something faster, try Galeon, or perhaps Konquerer(sp?). They both use mozilla as the basis. You mouse issue really just required a restart of the x windows system and not the entire computer. Installation issues have been reported with certain Savage4 video cards, which video card do you have?
16 MB ATI Radeon Mobility

It's a Dell Latitude C610 laptop

1.0GHZ Mobile P3
512 MB of PC133 SDRAM
Crystal 4205 audio controller

I do realize that Linux will take some getting used to, and I'm not going to give up on it just yet. I loaded it mostly for the learning experience, I will have to support several UNIX and Linux machines in the not too distant future ( early '03 ) and I want to have at least a basic knowledege of the OS.
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-05-2002, 04:46 PM
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Insane laptop there buddy!

If you have any questions feel free to shot me an IM on abecx or post up!

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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-05-2002, 06:02 PM
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Im in the same boat as you Kenny trying to learn Linux.
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-05-2002, 07:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by AbecX
Insane laptop there buddy!

If you have any questions feel free to shot me an IM on abecx or post up!
Thanks.

I'm sure I'll have more questions the more I use it. I really like Linux, it's just that sometimes I feel frustrated with having to relearn how to do something. Is there a site or page that has some quick tips for Linux and a list of different commands and what they are used for ( in term session )?
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-06-2002, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kenny_Stang
I feel frustrated with having to relearn how to do something.
Once you learn how to install stuff efficently, you wont have that feeling anymore. Get accustomed to the console commands, they are much faster then point and clicking stuff.
Quote:
Is there a site or page that has some quick tips for Linux and a list of different commands and what they are used for ( in term session )?
http://papa.indstate.edu/docs/common_commands.html
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-06-2002, 07:25 AM
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That is some good info there Cruz.

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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-06-2002, 07:44 AM
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Thumbs up How to install RPM's

Its really easy, but rather then me telling you, here is a link you can bookmark

http://linux.about.com/c/ht/02/10/Ho...?PM=ss14_linux

How to Install an RPM
From your Focus on Linux Guide

Using a package manager to install and un-install software is much easier and safer on a system and its user than trying to install from source code.

Difficulty Level: Easy Time Required: 5 Minutes


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's How:
First open a console window and locate the file on your computer by typing: locate [filename].rpm (of course replace the brackets portion with the real name of the file).
Once you have located the file you downloaded, change directories to the location of the file by typing: cd [where-the-rpm-is-located] (once again replace the brackets portion with the directory the locate command listed for the file.
Will you now need to log in as root, at the command line, type: su root (you will be required to enter the root password for the system.
Now that you are in the directory where the RPM is located and logged in as root, you can proceed to install it. At the command line type: rpm -ivh [filename].rpm (I think you get the idea about the brackets now).
That's it, you are done installing the software, it should be available via the command line and menus on your GUI. Have fun!


Tips:

There are many options that you can run with the rpm program, type: rpm -h for a list of the commands.
You can learn more about rpm by typing: man rpm at the command line.
RPM can also be used to turn source code into easy to install RPM packages, read the man pages to find out more about using RPM.
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-06-2002, 07:57 AM
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I don't know if I can find a how to on how to install source code but I'll explain it the best I can.

When you download an rpm, its made for wide variety of systems, not necessarily all. For instance, when you go software hunting, you'll see people with precompiled RPM Packages in download form like this:

Redhat 7.2 RPM x86
abecx-1.93f-x86.7.2.rpm

Redhat 8.0 RPM Alpha
abecx-1.93f-alpha.8.0.rpm

Redhat 8.0 Rpm x86
abecx-1.93f-x86.8.0.rpm

Now obviously the 1st and last rpm packages are made for an x86 system running either Redhat 7.2 or Redhat 8.0, the middle one is a precompiled binary for a system running RH8.0 with a Alpha based cpu.

The down side to precompiled binaries is that once you start upgrading stuff ( kernel, some gcc tools etc. . . ), the rpm's may not be running optimal. Another option you can do is download the source rpm and compile it, then install the source rpm, but the best way in my view is to just download the source code and compile it for your particular system. Usually, when you download source, it'll come in a tar.gz format. First you'll want to uncompress the files

tar -zxvf abecx-1.93f-source.tar.gz

It'll make a directory most likely called abecx-1.93f ( depending on how the tar maker made the archive ). Then you will want to cd to the directory and run these simple commands as ROOT.

cd abecx-1.93f

./configure <-- This command will configure the make file and locate all the files it needs on your system so that when you compile it, it will know where to look for specific tools.

make <-- This command actually compiles all the software.

make install <-- this command copies all the compiled applications to a user accessible location, think of it like coping the files to your program files directory in windows.


That's really about it, then you could just type abecx to run that application and go from there.

Now, you dont have to be root on the system to install applications, but if you want the files to be read in a global directory, you'll need to be as root, if you want to install it as a user, and not allow any other users to use it ( besides root and other system admins ), you can do a make user install, or just cd to the compiled source and run the applications from there.

Hope this helps.


Last edited by AbecX; 12-06-2002 at 08:01 AM.
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-06-2002, 08:49 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks AbecX that certainly helps. I've installed both RPM packages and source code as well in the past, so I know the basics to it. The only downside to installing apps on Linux is that you have to install 4 or 5 other packages before you can run the ones you originally wanted... and the problem I ran across the last time was that one of those "other" software requirements would not install for some reason, so I was SOL because I could not install the original software without the other piece installed. I've just downloaded the source code for mplayer, but I'm sure there are several other things I'll have to download first, still reading the documentation on it before I start the install process. If you have any tips let me know.

-k
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-06-2002, 08:56 AM Thread Starter
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To illustrate my point here are the "software" requirements prior to installing mplayer:

Software requirements:

* binutils - suggested version is 2.11.x . This program is responsible for generating MMX/3DNow!/etc instructions, thus very important.
* gcc - suggested versions are: 2.95.3, 2.95.4 and 3.1. NEVER use 2.96 or 3.0.x! They generate faulty code for MPlayer. If you decide to change gcc from 2.96, then don't decide in favor of 3.0.x just because it's newer! Early releases of 3.0.x were even more buggy than 2.96. So downgrade to 2.95.x (downgrade libstdc++ too, other programs may need it) or don't up/downgrade at all (but in this case, be prepared for runtime problems). If you vote for 3.x.x, try to use the latest version, early releases had various bugs, so be sure you use at least 3.1, it's tested and working. For detailed information about gcc 2.96's bugs (that are still NOT fixed, they have been WORKED AROUND in MPlayer!), see the gcc 2.96 section and the FAQ.
* XFree86 - suggested version is always the newest (4.2.1). Normally, everyone wants this, as starting with XFree86 4.0.2, it contains the XVideo extension (somewhere referred to as Xv) which is needed to enable the hardware YUV acceleration (fast image display) on cards that support it.
Make sure its development package is installed, too, otherwise it won't work.
For some video cards you don't need XFree86. See list below.
* make - suggested version is always the newest (at least 3.79.x). This usually isn't important.
* SDL - it's not mandatory, but can help in some cases (bad audio, video cards that lag strangely with the xv driver). Always use the newest (beginning from 1.2.x).
* libjpeg - optional JPEG decoder, used by -mf and some QT MOV files. Useful for both MPlayer and MEncoder if you plan to work with jpeg files.
* libpng - recommended and default (M)PNG decoder. Required for GUI. Useful for both MPlayer and MEncoder.
* lame - recommended, needed for encoding MP3 audio with MEncoder, suggested version is always the newest (at least 3.90).
* libogg - optional, needed for playing OGG file format.
* libvorbis - optional, needed for playing OGG Vorbis audio.
* LIVE.COM Streaming Media - optional, needed for playing RTSP/RTP streams.
* directfb - optional, from http://www.directfb.org
* cdparanoia - optional, for CDDA support
* libfreetype - optional, for TTF fonts support. At least 2.0.9 is required.


Now, how do I know what versions I am currently running with RH 8.0? Where do I find all these different pieces of "software"? I wish they just had a simple installation program like must MS apps have, and you wouldn't have to worry about all this other stuff.
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-06-2002, 09:09 AM
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Most ( 95%) of those applications are preinstalled. You have to understand the advantage of this. Programs for windows are large because they all have their own API's and other stupid bull shit that slows down your system when you load their application. In linux, you install one library that is compatiable with a ton of applications. When you run the configure script, it'll tell you what requirements you do not have.

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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-06-2002, 09:23 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by AbecX
Most ( 95%) of those applications are preinstalled. You have to understand the advantage of this. Programs for windows are large because they all have their own API's and other stupid bull shit that slows down your system when you load their application. In linux, you install one library that is compatiable with a ton of applications. When you run the configure script, it'll tell you what requirements you do not have.
I do understand your point... I guess that's what you give up for ease of use. Right now I'm downloading gcc 3.2.1 because I didn't have a "valid" version of gcc. We'll see what else I need to install.

BTW, is there a list of basic apps that are "recommended"? Thanks again.

-k
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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-06-2002, 09:37 AM Thread Starter
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Question

Here is the error message I am getting when trying to configure ( using ./configure ) gcc:

Configuring for a i686-pc-linux-gnuoldld host.
Created "Makefile" in /home/Kenneth/download/gcc-3.2.1 using "mt-frag"
./configure: line 7: cc: command not found
*** The command 'cc -o conftest -g conftest.c' failed.
*** You must set the environment variable CC to a working compiler.

What do I need to make this work?
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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-06-2002, 10:04 AM
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DO NOT TRY TO UPDATE YOUR GCC YET. Wait till I post up this link, RH made their own verison of GCC that alot of application people didnt like, but it works just fine. I'll post the fix in a sec.

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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-06-2002, 10:06 AM
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http://www.mplayerhq.hu/DOCS/users_a...opers.html#gcc

GCC 2.96
The background: The GCC 2.95 series is an official GNU release and version 2.95.3 of GCC is the most bug-free in that series. We have never noticed compilation problems that we could trace to GCC 2.95.3. Starting with Red Hat Linux 7.0, Red Hat included a heavily patched CVS version of GCC in their distribution and named it 2.96. Red Hat included this version in the distribution because GCC 3.0 was not finished at the time, and they needed a compiler that worked well on all of their supported platforms, including IA64 and s390. The Linux distributor Mandrake also followed Red Hat's example and started shipping GCC 2.96 with their Linux-Mandrake 8.0 series.

The statements: The GCC team disclaimed any link with GCC 2.96 and issued an official response to GCC 2.96. Many developers around the world began having problems with GCC 2.96, and started recommending other compilers. Examples are Apache, MySQL, avifile and Wine. Other interesting links are Real time Linux, Linux kernel news flash about kernel 2.4.17 and Voy Forum. MPlayer also suffered from intermittent problems that were all solved by switching to a different version of GCC. Several projects started implementing workarounds for some of the 2.96 issues, but we refused to fix other people's bugs, especially since some workarounds may imply a performance penalty.

You can read about the other side of the story at this site. GCC 2.96 does not allow | (pipe) characters in assembler comments because it supports Intel as well as AT&T Syntax and the | character is a symbol in the Intel variant. The problem is that it silently ignores the whole assembler block. This is supposedly fixed now, GCC prints a warning instead of skipping the block.

The present: Red Hat says that GCC 2.96-85 and above is fixed. The situation has indeed improved, yet we still see problem reports on our mailing lists that disappear with a different compiler. In any case it does not matter any longer. Hopefully a maturing GCC 3.x will solve the issue for good. If you want to compile with 2.96 give the --disable-gcc-checking flag to configure. Remember that you are on your own and do not report any bugs. If you do, you will only get banned from our mailing list because we have had more than enough flame wars over GCC 2.96. Please let the matter rest.

If you have problems with GCC 2.96, you can get 2.96-85 packages from the Red Hat ftp server, or just go for the 3.0.4 packages offered for version 7.2 and later. You can also get gcc-3.1 packages (unofficial, but working fine) and you can install them along the GCC 2.96 you already have. MPlayer will detect it and use 3.1 instead of 2.96. If you do not want to or cannot use the binary packages, here is how you can compile GCC 3.1 from source:

Go to the GCC mirrors page page and download gcc-core-3.1.tar.gz. This includes the complete C compiler and is sufficient for MPlayer. If you also want C++, Java or some of the other advanced GCC features gcc-3.1.tar.gz may better suit your needs.
Extract the archive with
tar -xvzf gcc-core-3.1.tar.gz
GCC is not built inside the source directory itself like most programs, but needs a build directory outside the source directory. Thus you need to create this directory via
mkdir gcc-build
Then you can proceed to configure GCC in the build directory, but you need the configure from the source directory:
cd gcc-build
../gcc-3.1/configure
Compile GCC by issuing this command in the build directory:
make bootstrap
Now you can install GCC (as root) by typing
make install

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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-06-2002, 10:09 AM
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if you dont want to upgrade do this:

./configure --disable-gcc-checking

I recommend this step.
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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-06-2002, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up

Haven't had a chance to try this yet, today was our work Christmas Party so we left early. I'll let you know on Monday how it works.
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post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-09-2002, 08:07 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by AbecX
if you dont want to upgrade do this:

./configure --disable-gcc-checking

I recommend this step.
I just thought this is funny, this is the message I get when compiling MPlayer with the --disable-gcc-checking option. It still will compile the app though ( if I had the latest version of binutils ).

************************************************** ****************************

Hmm. You really want to compile MPlayer with an *UNSUPPORTED* C compiler?
Ok. You know. Do it. Did you already read DOCS/users_against_developers.html???

DO NOT SEND BUGREPORTS OR COMPLAIN, it's *YOUR* compiler's fault!
Get ready for mysterious crashes, no-picture bugs, strange noises... REALLY!
Lame which is used by mencoder produces weird errors, too.

If you have any problem, install a GCC 2.95.x or 3.x version and try again.
If the problem _still_ exists, then read DOCS/bugreports.html !

*** DO NOT SEND BUG REPORTS OR COMPLAIN it's *YOUR* compiler's fault! ***

************************************************** ****************************
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post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-09-2002, 08:10 AM
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It'll work, just that a LOT of linux developers didnt like that compiler for some odd reason

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post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-09-2002, 08:13 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by AbecX
It'll work, just that a LOT of linux developers didnt like that compiler for some odd reason
Well I need to install binutils and I'm still getting this error ( same error I was getting when trying to complie gcc 3.1 ):

*** The command 'cc -o conftest -g conftest.c' failed.
*** You must set the environment variable CC to a working compiler.
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post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-09-2002, 08:20 AM Thread Starter
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I'm going to donwload and isntall gcc-2.96-110 from RedHat. Hopefully that will work?

http://www.redhat.com/swr/i386/gcc-2.96-110.i386.html
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post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-09-2002, 08:23 AM Thread Starter
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Abecx, can you see if you can download gcc from Red Hat's site? For some reason it's timing out on me. It's possible that my proxy server is blocking Red Hat's FTP.
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post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-09-2002, 08:28 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kenny_Stang
Abecx, can you see if you can download gcc from Red Hat's site? For some reason it's timing out on me. It's possible that my proxy server is blocking Red Hat's FTP.
Never mind, found a mirror that had it. Thanks.
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post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-09-2002, 09:27 AM
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sorry kenny, I'm kind of busy, if you see me posting in the back porch, dont get mad, they'll probably be small posts hehhe. I'll get back to this thread on lunch and answer your pm with good advice.

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post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-09-2002, 09:49 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by AbecX
sorry kenny, I'm kind of busy, if you see me posting in the back porch, dont get mad, they'll probably be small posts hehhe. I'll get back to this thread on lunch and answer your pm with good advice.
It's cool I understand. I was able to finally get it installed using an RPM of GCC ( 3.2-7 ). I just finished installing MPlayer, now I'm going to test it. I'll let you know how it works.
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