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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-14-2008, 04:26 PM Thread Starter
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XP Death Much Exaggerated

http://techtalk.pcpitstop.com/2008/0...sis-improving/


Reports from the Computex Taipei trade show indicate there are some changes coming in the carefully orchestrated death of Windows XP. The latest Microsoft leak-like announcement, made June 3rd of this week, extends the use of Windows XP Home for low-cost desktops until June 30th, 2010.

Until this week, Windows XP was to be available for OEM use, only on small ultra-light notebooks, until the June 2010 date. Several people noted in April that Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer was clearing the path for this change when he was quoted as saying “If customer feedback varies, we can always wake up smarter.”

Wake up they did, but pinpointing XPs availability isn’t that easy. Microsoft’s lack of definition on what constitutes a low-cost desktop or small notebook doesn’t help. There’s no doubt in my mind that this vagueness is an integral part of their plan. Because builders will be able to install Windows XP until June 30th, 2010, it's unsure how Microsoft will qualify or control the destination build. I'm not even going to mention the "Downgrade" option that's available, as it would only add to the confusion.

Maybe there will be some further clarification from Microsoft, but I’m betting not enough to stop the use of XP. It seems the DNR (do not resuscitate) orders have been removed. Rejoice and welcome an old friend back to life.

Windows XP Availability

June 30th 2008
1. OEM Manufacturers i.e. Dell, HP, Acer, etc., will no longer be able to sell large, robust systems with Windows XP Home or Pro.
2. Windows XP retail disk no longer available from retail sources. A quick trip shows it is still available form OfficeMax and BestBuy. A quick click show’s it’s still available from NewEgg.
3. Windows XP home and Pro availability or OEM disks through channels, ends.
4. Windows XP Home is available on small notebooks and low-end desktops (net tops).

January 2009
Windows XP Home/Pro still available preinstalled on notebooks and net tops until June 30th, 2010.

Windows XP Pro still available preinstalled as "downgrade option" from Dell and others. Order system with Windows Vista Businsess or Ultimate and receive system withXP Pro installed.

June 30th, 2010
Windows XP no longer available.

December 31st, 2014
Extended support (security patches) ends for Windows XP Home, Media Center, and Windows XP Professional.

Thoughts on what prompted this change range from, ”It’s the write-in campaign”, “Vista is buggy”, "Mac is a threat”, "Vista will never work on cheap systems”, to “It’s no change at all.”

I take a somewhat more cynical view. To use an old quote “Just follow the money”. If there is one thing Microsoft does well it is make money. That’s not an accident or just the by-product of a bunch of guys having fun with code. Nope, making money is pretty much what motivates Microsoft, and that is as it should be. They are going to do whatever it takes to maintain their market share. If that involves selling only one operating system, then so be it. If that involves selling 3 operating systems, XP, Vista, and Windows 7, then that is what they’ll do.

Vista will never be a good choice for systems using old or limited hardware. It’s just too resource hungry. You know Microsoft is not cutting loose all the low budget sales out in the real world. Intentionally throw Mac a big bone? Absolutely not. Of course we won't know for sure untill around the 4th of July, but you can bet they will do what it takes to keep the green.





Listen to my buddy, Jeff Bolton, from 6-9 AM Mon-Fri.

Obamanomics = Trickle Up Poverty

Think you need to format/reinstall your OS(XP), read this first.
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-14-2008, 05:08 PM
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Based on my experiences with Windows Vista...they can keep the POS it is. I can get by just fine using XP Pro...and I won't have to learn how to navigate through all the new menus and permission requests to achieve the exact same result...on less resources. FUCK VISTA

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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-14-2008, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram57ta
Based on my experiences with Windows Vista...they can keep the POS it is. I can get by just fine using XP Pro...and I won't have to learn how to navigate through all the new menus and permission requests to achieve the exact same result...on less resources. FUCK VISTA
vista is a better operating system, you just need the computer to run it. It's faster, and it manages memory much better.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-14-2008, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.0_CJ
vista is a better operating system, you just need the computer to run it. It's faster, and it manages memory much better.
It may be a better O/S (debatable depending on how you look at things), but when it blocks nearly every program I install on it at bootup and then tells me its incompatible when I try to make it work it gets a bit frustrating. As for the computer being able to run it...hmm...my desktop is a dual core 3ghz Pentium D with 2gb of ram and it seemed to slow down quite a bit...and it came installed on my XPS M1210 which is a dual core Centrino 1.8ghz with 2gb of ram and I guess it would run ok if it didn't tell me that most of the software or applications that came with it are incompatible and they won't work. I installed XP Pro on both of them and they both work like a champ and are WAYYY faster. Tell me ONE thing Vista is going to do for me that I can't achieve with less hassle using XP? I also don't like vista asking me EVERY TIME I try to change even the simplest of settings if I give permission. Vista will go down in history as the new version of Windows ME..and the replacement for it will be a new version of 2000 Pro or XP.

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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-15-2008, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram57ta
It may be a better O/S (debatable depending on how you look at things), but when it blocks nearly every program I install on it at bootup and then tells me its incompatible when I try to make it work it gets a bit frustrating. As for the computer being able to run it...hmm...my desktop is a dual core 3ghz Pentium D with 2gb of ram and it seemed to slow down quite a bit...and it came installed on my XPS M1210 which is a dual core Centrino 1.8ghz with 2gb of ram and I guess it would run ok if it didn't tell me that most of the software or applications that came with it are incompatible and they won't work. I installed XP Pro on both of them and they both work like a champ and are WAYYY faster. Tell me ONE thing Vista is going to do for me that I can't achieve with less hassle using XP? I also don't like vista asking me EVERY TIME I try to change even the simplest of settings if I give permission. Vista will go down in history as the new version of Windows ME..and the replacement for it will be a new version of 2000 Pro or XP.

No, Vista will go down as a landmark OS for certain. I just don't get how people have these opinions about something they don't have much experience with?

Why did your system run slower? 2GB just isn't enough if you plan on gaming in Vista, 4GB would be my recommendation.

Don't like vista asking you for permission? That's an intregal part of security, by having UAC enabled, you cannot have a program access anything on your drive without you being responsible. That's your security. And, if you like, you can disable UAC in like 10 clicks and it operates exactly like XP, not secure as hell.

As far as programs not working.. I've never had a program not function in vista, I've had 2 games, both which had patches in a matter of weeks. And if it doesn't you can always toss it into compatibility mode. Most likely you didn't spend enough time in Vista to understand how to use your UAC and circumvent any permission issues. Every XP fanatic I've spoken to after they were properly introduced to Vista agreed it was a superior operating system.

I've been around PC's for long enough to have heard this same rhetoric and BS from people coming from Windows 3.11 to Windows 95, Windows 95 to Windows 98, Windows XP from Windows 98, and NOW, we have Vista "deniers." You will be running Vista in the future, just like you would have been running XP eventually if you were a XP denier.


Name 1 thing I can do in Vista that you can't?

DirectX 10
ReadyBoost
Windows Reliability and Performance Monitor
Security
BitLocker
Enhanced networking
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-15-2008, 06:17 AM
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Well you might be right...looks like eventually Microsoft will cram Vista down our throats whether we like it or not so we will be forced to learn it...I just wish they could have made the learning curve a little more forgiving. Vista is more secure I wont argue that..I just think it goes a little overkill which is exactly why a lot of people don't like it. Compatibility with equipment is another issue. I would be a little pissed if I bought a printer or video card (examples) 6 months or a year ago only to find that even though it worked great with XP it doesnt work with Vista or I have to search the far ends of the world to find updated drivers. Some people dont want to have to throw out all of their old peripherals just to get a new O/S.

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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-15-2008, 01:55 PM
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Actually UAC has been cracked and people/spyware have been able to get around it.

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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-15-2008, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunt4m3x
Actually UAC has been cracked and people/spyware have been able to get around it.
that was pre-server pack 1.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-15-2008, 02:39 PM
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Meh, Vista is the future OS. (MS wise) might as well get with it now.

My only gripes with Vista are the drivers, and Nvidia's drivers to be more clear.

I'm constantly getting "driver stopped responding" issues when I game, and this has been going on for months (since feb). Beta's, WHQL, Non-whql, modded drivers; i've tried it all and non have been able to stop this error from going away.

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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-15-2008, 04:20 PM
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I don't have any major issues with Vista as of this time. Most businesses are not ready to deploy it and I do NOT use it for work purposes.

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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-15-2008, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roliath
Meh, Vista is the future OS. (MS wise) might as well get with it now.

My only gripes with Vista are the drivers, and Nvidia's drivers to be more clear.

I'm constantly getting "driver stopped responding" issues when I game, and this has been going on for months (since feb). Beta's, WHQL, Non-whql, modded drivers; i've tried it all and non have been able to stop this error from going away.
70% of all reported bluescreens from Microsoft data logs are from Nvidia drivers. That isn't Microsoft's problem, that's nvidia's poor programming abilities.
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-15-2008, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.0_CJ
70% of all reported bluescreens from Microsoft data logs are from Nvidia drivers. That isn't Microsoft's problem, that's nvidia's poor programming abilities.

Hmmm....
1. I could've sworn it was more like 30%
2. It is a fairly old statistic
3. It is a MS statistic, so it probably is biased
4. I have a Vista machine, that does not crash and it has an Nvidia card in it.

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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-15-2008, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.0_CJ
70% of all reported bluescreens from Microsoft data logs are from Nvidia drivers. That isn't Microsoft's problem, that's nvidia's poor programming abilities.
That was at launch, if i'm not mistaken, But i get what your saying (and agree)

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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-16-2008, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceyko
Hmmm....
1. I could've sworn it was more like 30%
2. It is a fairly old statistic
3. It is a MS statistic, so it probably is biased
4. I have a Vista machine, that does not crash and it has an Nvidia card in it.
And I have 2 nvidia cards in my machine and it's stable also? I'm saying originally nvidia drivers were total shit, hell, they are still not very good honestly, I still have crash issues because of them in certain games (grid). 30% of crashes as of april '08 were from nvidia drivers, we started at 70% - the overwhelming majority of crashes by third party software is nvidia. If you havent followed my posts I'm here defending Vista, not trashing it.
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-25-2008, 08:06 AM
 
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Well here at my Job we will be deploying Vista and we are migrating from Win 2k…So I do expect a lot of my clients freaking out and hell breaking loose. They didn’t even have the opportunity to experience XP. One good thing is that we are getting newer systems because they got to support Vista, and for businesses its implementation baby so we can’t be left behind.

At home I was running 2 GB of RAM, and when I had IE+task manager+Word open it began to get sluggish. I do recommend having 3GB+ of RAM for it to run smoothly when accessing many applications. I also got an invidia card with no issues, and play online games just fine. I have not had the opportunity to use Vista with work related issues so until then Vista is ok in my books.
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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-25-2008, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CISCO
Well here at my Job we will be deploying Vista and we are migrating from Win 2k…So I do expect a lot of my clients freaking out and hell breaking loose. They didn’t even have the opportunity to experience XP. One good thing is that we are getting newer systems because they got to support Vista, and for businesses its implementation baby so we can’t be left behind.

At home I was running 2 GB of RAM, and when I had IE+task manager+Word open it began to get sluggish. I do recommend having 3GB+ of RAM for it to run smoothly when accessing many applications. I also got an invidia card with no issues, and play online games just fine. I have not had the opportunity to use Vista with work related issues so until then Vista is ok in my books.

Holy shit. 2k to Vista!? I feel sorry for you.

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