Raid... or some other way of mass storage - DFWstangs Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-01-2007, 03:56 PM Thread Starter
Cummins > Powerstroke
 
8mpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: id rather be cummin than strokin
Posts: 19,068
Raid... or some other way of mass storage

Building a HTPC and currently have 2 300gig drives and Im out of space. Looking at some new motherboards that support up to 6SATA drives but I think its only through RAID. Im looking for a way to slowly upgrade drives as needed. So add a 500gig to the 600 I have currently and when thats full, add another 500, and so on.

Is there an easy way to slowly upgrade to a couple TB? Im wanting to store my dvd collection on the computer via ISO files so I dont have to mess with dvd binders of dvds.

2006 Dodge Ram Megacab Cummins
1969 Mustang Coupe
1969 Mustang Mach1
1969 Chevy C10
1966 Mustang Coupe
8mpg is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-01-2007, 04:06 PM
Googlist-Wikipedian
 
Hunt4m3x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: de_aztec
Posts: 4,814
Raid does not exist. Its a myth.

2005 Infiniti G35 Sedan Ivory Pearl Premium

2006 Infiniti FX45 Liquid Platinum

2010 Polaris Ranger RZR S Orange Madness







Ban count: 2
Hunt4m3x is offline  
post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-01-2007, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
Cummins > Powerstroke
 
8mpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: id rather be cummin than strokin
Posts: 19,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunt4m3x
Raid does not exist. Its a myth.
damnit... I read a wiki about raid and now Im worried about disk failure.

2006 Dodge Ram Megacab Cummins
1969 Mustang Coupe
1969 Mustang Mach1
1969 Chevy C10
1966 Mustang Coupe
8mpg is offline  
 
post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-01-2007, 08:12 PM
Googlist-Wikipedian
 
Hunt4m3x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: de_aztec
Posts: 4,814
get a NAS.

2005 Infiniti G35 Sedan Ivory Pearl Premium

2006 Infiniti FX45 Liquid Platinum

2010 Polaris Ranger RZR S Orange Madness







Ban count: 2
Hunt4m3x is offline  
post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-01-2007, 09:19 PM
WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS!
 
Sgt Beavis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Lake Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,859
Raid kills bugs dead.
Sgt Beavis is offline  
post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-02-2007, 09:49 AM
CJ
User may be editing post.
 
CJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 12,013
you can use many harddrives. Current motherboards usually have 4 SATA2 connections, and 2 E-SATA2 connections - all of which can be used with a separate drive. So, you can effectively have 6 drives on most new motherboards. RAID has several different configurations - if you are concerned about loosing shit, then you need to set up a RAID 1 array - but remember you need to buy 2 of every drive you can utilize. So, your 2 300GB would effectively be 1 300GB that has a backup.

RAID 0: striped set (minimum 2 disks) without parity. Provides improved performance and additional storage but no fault tolerance. Any disk failure destroys the array, which becomes more likely with more disks in the array. A single disk failure destroys the entire array because when data is written to a RAID 0 drive, the data is broken into fragments. The number of fragments is dictated by the number of disks in the drive. The fragments are written to their respective disks simultaneously on the same sector. This allows smaller sections of the entire chunk of data to be read off the drive in parallel, giving this type of arrangement huge bandwidth. When one sector on one of the disks fails, however, the corresponding sector on every other disk is rendered useless because part of the data is now corrupted. RAID 0 does not implement error checking so any error is unrecoverable. More disks in the array means higher bandwidth, but greater risk of data loss.

RAID 1: mirrored set (minimum 2 disks) without parity. Provides fault tolerance from disk errors and single disk failure. Increased read performance occurs when using a multi-threaded operating system that supports split seeks, very small performance reduction when writing. Array continues to operate so long as at least one drive is functioning.

RAID 3 and RAID 4: striped set (minimum 3 disks) with dedicated parity. This mechanism provides an improved performance and fault tolerance similar to RAID 5, but with a dedicated parity disk rather than rotated parity stripes. The single disk is a bottle-neck for writing since every write requires updating the parity data. One minor benefit is the dedicated parity disk allows the parity drive to fail and operation will continue without parity or performance penalty.

RAID 5: striped set (minimum 3 disks) with distributed parity. Distributed parity requires all but one drive to be present to operate; drive failure requires replacement, but the array is not destroyed by a single drive failure. Upon drive failure, any subsequent reads can be calculated from the distributed parity such that the drive failure is masked from the end user. The array will have data loss in the event of a second drive failure and is vulnerable until the data that was on the failed drive is rebuilt onto a replacement drive.

RAID 6: striped set (minimum 4 disks) with dual distributed parity. Provides fault tolerance from two drive failures; array continues to operate with up to two failed drives. This makes larger RAID groups more practical, especially for high availability systems. As drives grow in size, they become more prone to error. This becomes increasingly important because large-capacity drives lengthen the time needed to recover from the failure of a single drive. Single parity RAID levels are vulnerable to data loss until the failed drive is rebuilt: the larger the drive, the longer the rebuild will take. With dual parity, it gives time to rebuild the array by recreating a failed drive with the ability to sustain failure on another drive in the same array.
CJ is offline  
post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-02-2007, 10:01 AM Thread Starter
Cummins > Powerstroke
 
8mpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: id rather be cummin than strokin
Posts: 19,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.0_CJ
you can use many harddrives. Current motherboards usually have 4 SATA2 connections, and 2 E-SATA2 connections - all of which can be used with a separate drive. So, you can effectively have 6 drives on most new motherboards. RAID has several different configurations - if you are concerned about loosing shit, then you need to set up a RAID 1 array - but remember you need to buy 2 of every drive you can utilize. So, your 2 300GB would effectively be 1 300GB that has a backup.

RAID 0: striped set (minimum 2 disks) without parity. Provides improved performance and additional storage but no fault tolerance. Any disk failure destroys the array, which becomes more likely with more disks in the array. A single disk failure destroys the entire array because when data is written to a RAID 0 drive, the data is broken into fragments. The number of fragments is dictated by the number of disks in the drive. The fragments are written to their respective disks simultaneously on the same sector. This allows smaller sections of the entire chunk of data to be read off the drive in parallel, giving this type of arrangement huge bandwidth. When one sector on one of the disks fails, however, the corresponding sector on every other disk is rendered useless because part of the data is now corrupted. RAID 0 does not implement error checking so any error is unrecoverable. More disks in the array means higher bandwidth, but greater risk of data loss.

RAID 1: mirrored set (minimum 2 disks) without parity. Provides fault tolerance from disk errors and single disk failure. Increased read performance occurs when using a multi-threaded operating system that supports split seeks, very small performance reduction when writing. Array continues to operate so long as at least one drive is functioning.

RAID 3 and RAID 4: striped set (minimum 3 disks) with dedicated parity. This mechanism provides an improved performance and fault tolerance similar to RAID 5, but with a dedicated parity disk rather than rotated parity stripes. The single disk is a bottle-neck for writing since every write requires updating the parity data. One minor benefit is the dedicated parity disk allows the parity drive to fail and operation will continue without parity or performance penalty.

RAID 5: striped set (minimum 3 disks) with distributed parity. Distributed parity requires all but one drive to be present to operate; drive failure requires replacement, but the array is not destroyed by a single drive failure. Upon drive failure, any subsequent reads can be calculated from the distributed parity such that the drive failure is masked from the end user. The array will have data loss in the event of a second drive failure and is vulnerable until the data that was on the failed drive is rebuilt onto a replacement drive.

RAID 6: striped set (minimum 4 disks) with dual distributed parity. Provides fault tolerance from two drive failures; array continues to operate with up to two failed drives. This makes larger RAID groups more practical, especially for high availability systems. As drives grow in size, they become more prone to error. This becomes increasingly important because large-capacity drives lengthen the time needed to recover from the failure of a single drive. Single parity RAID levels are vulnerable to data loss until the failed drive is rebuilt: the larger the drive, the longer the rebuild will take. With dual parity, it gives time to rebuild the array by recreating a failed drive with the ability to sustain failure on another drive in the same array.
Raid1 sucks... I would hate to have 4tb of hard disks and only be able to use 2tb

2006 Dodge Ram Megacab Cummins
1969 Mustang Coupe
1969 Mustang Mach1
1969 Chevy C10
1966 Mustang Coupe
8mpg is offline  
post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-02-2007, 10:07 AM
CJ
User may be editing post.
 
CJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 12,013
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mpg
Raid1 sucks... I would hate to have 4tb of hard disks and only be able to use 2tb
well there you go, you now know.
CJ is offline  
post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-02-2007, 10:08 AM Thread Starter
Cummins > Powerstroke
 
8mpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: id rather be cummin than strokin
Posts: 19,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.0_CJ
well there you go, you now know.
I will have to ask Gigabyte and see if the motherboard allows you to have 6 drive not in a raid array

2006 Dodge Ram Megacab Cummins
1969 Mustang Coupe
1969 Mustang Mach1
1969 Chevy C10
1966 Mustang Coupe
8mpg is offline  
post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-02-2007, 10:10 AM
CJ
User may be editing post.
 
CJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 12,013
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mpg
I will have to ask Gigabyte and see if the motherboard allows you to have 6 drive not in a raid array
oh god, gigabyte - I hate that damn company. I had a DS3 and it was the worst product I have ever purchased - even worse than my Taurus.
CJ is offline  
post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-02-2007, 11:10 AM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Carrollton
Posts: 816
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.0_CJ
oh god, gigabyte - I hate that damn company. I had a DS3 and it was the worst product I have ever purchased - even worse than my Taurus.
LOL, thats pretty bad. yea, im not too fond of them either....

dude... why all this shit? unless you want raid to backup all your files, just get like 4 of these...

1tb internal harddrive

its a regular single space harddrive that you can put in your regular bay in your PC. costs $370 which is pretty good and is rated at 3Gb/s transfer. only problem with these is they run pretty hot if you are ussing it for rapid transfer and/or anything other than mass storage so you would need to throw a good heat sink and fan on or watercool it. a guy that my friend was tellin me about just went to that computer convention with 17 TB!!!! fricken crazy... like a 20k server lol.

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i299/needlesharp/bevisandbuthead.gif" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>
NeedleSharp is offline  
post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-02-2007, 12:12 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,173
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mpg
Raid1 sucks... I would hate to have 4tb of hard disks and only be able to use 2tb
Using Raid1 on a single disk is retarded. Typically you would have two matched drives and use Raid1 to maintain redundancy in the event of a hard drive failure. If you Raid1 a single disk what happens if it suffers a catastrophic physical failure, you are fucked.
usmcluke is offline  
post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-02-2007, 12:33 PM Thread Starter
Cummins > Powerstroke
 
8mpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: id rather be cummin than strokin
Posts: 19,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedleSharp
LOL, thats pretty bad. yea, im not too fond of them either....

dude... why all this shit? unless you want raid to backup all your files, just get like 4 of these...

1tb internal harddrive

its a regular single space harddrive that you can put in your regular bay in your PC. costs $370 which is pretty good and is rated at 3Gb/s transfer. only problem with these is they run pretty hot if you are ussing it for rapid transfer and/or anything other than mass storage so you would need to throw a good heat sink and fan on or watercool it. a guy that my friend was tellin me about just went to that computer convention with 17 TB!!!! fricken crazy... like a 20k server lol.
Cost is the main reason...

2006 Dodge Ram Megacab Cummins
1969 Mustang Coupe
1969 Mustang Mach1
1969 Chevy C10
1966 Mustang Coupe
8mpg is offline  
post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-02-2007, 12:58 PM
fuckcanada
 
Roliath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: fuckcanada
Posts: 5,325
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mpg
Raid1 sucks... I would hate to have 4tb of hard disks and only be able to use 2tb
Until through some act of god one of the drive crashes, and you had a shit load of important stuff on it. Raid 1 + Daily Backups (onsite and off-site) = win

To answer your question, why not just build a fileserver ?
Or I guess if you want to go the route your heading with all the drives in your htpc, get a sata card.
Always keep a backup solution in mind too, I would hate to lose all my media.

Roliath is offline  
post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-02-2007, 01:03 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roliath
Until through some act of god one of the drive crashes, and you had a shit load of important stuff on it. Raid 1 + Daily Backups (onsite and off-site) = win

To answer your question, why not just build a fileserver ?
Or I guess if you want to go the route your heading with all the drives in your htpc, get a sata card.
Always keep a backup solution in mind too, I would hate to lose all my media.
Yup and I can promise that one extra disk is a lot cheaper than data recovery if you have data on there you have to have back. There are very cheap IP based network backup solutions to be had for like 50.00 a year. Unlimited storage.
usmcluke is offline  
post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-02-2007, 01:14 PM
Very Interesting
 
The Big Matt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Around the World
Posts: 9,856
Raid 10 FTW

You're only as strong as you allow yourself to be...

Lockout Workout Forums and Supplements
The Big Matt is offline  
post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-02-2007, 01:50 PM Thread Starter
Cummins > Powerstroke
 
8mpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: id rather be cummin than strokin
Posts: 19,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roliath
Until through some act of god one of the drive crashes, and you had a shit load of important stuff on it. Raid 1 + Daily Backups (onsite and off-site) = win

To answer your question, why not just build a fileserver ?
Or I guess if you want to go the route your heading with all the drives in your htpc, get a sata card.
Always keep a backup solution in mind too, I would hate to lose all my media.
cant it be a combo file server/computer? The computer I need for a HTPC is pretty darn basic. What differentiates a file server from a computer with lots of storage? Does a SATA card just allow for more drives to be added?

The mobo (gigabyte or intel or abit...they all ahve basically the same board) has 6 SATA ports on it. I assumed that it would have to have a raid setup (which is built in on the mobo) to allow for all 6. Now if you dont have to run raid, and you can just have 6 separate drives, then Im good to go.

2006 Dodge Ram Megacab Cummins
1969 Mustang Coupe
1969 Mustang Mach1
1969 Chevy C10
1966 Mustang Coupe
8mpg is offline  
post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-02-2007, 07:26 PM
Googlist-Wikipedian
 
Hunt4m3x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: de_aztec
Posts: 4,814
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mpg
cant it be a combo file server/computer? The computer I need for a HTPC is pretty darn basic. What differentiates a file server from a computer with lots of storage? Does a SATA card just allow for more drives to be added?

The mobo (gigabyte or intel or abit...they all ahve basically the same board) has 6 SATA ports on it. I assumed that it would have to have a raid setup (which is built in on the mobo) to allow for all 6. Now if you dont have to run raid, and you can just have 6 separate drives, then Im good to go.

No. You don't have to run raid. I wouldn't trust on board raid anyways. I would get a card for that shit. Data recovery FTL.

2005 Infiniti G35 Sedan Ivory Pearl Premium

2006 Infiniti FX45 Liquid Platinum

2010 Polaris Ranger RZR S Orange Madness







Ban count: 2
Hunt4m3x is offline  
post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-03-2007, 11:00 PM
IA2
 
mikeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 22,413
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mpg
Raid1 sucks... I would hate to have 4tb of hard disks and only be able to use 2tb
A corrupted raid 5 array sucks also. 4tb of gibberish. At a customer site we had a very impressive raid array crash due to a power failure and it was un-rebuildable. The old raid 1 mainframe had to resupply all of the data to the server to rebuild the databases

On the mainframe, the raid 1 drives are unaffected by simple power outages.
mikeb is offline  
post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-04-2007, 09:40 AM
duh...duh....duh
 
ceyko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ES BEER
Posts: 9,543
I'm with the backup fans here. I have a basic buffalo 1TB NAS w/ RAID 5 - I don't use most of it right now but I now back it up to a 500GB USB drive that is directly attached. Right now I try to do a seperate backups so I have seperate set of backups incase worst comes to worst and the whole array of drives ends up with crap on the drives.

Really, just pick your RAID of choice and back it up to some other mechanism. In my case I keep licensed software and information for my side business on it. So to me it is critical data that gets backed up from the NAS. So - I have the data on the PCs that have it - that is backed up to the NAS and the NAS backs it up to the other external drive.

Some consider that overkill, but anything less then that and I've lost data. Home data is sometimes discounted until it is gone. Hard disk drives always are the weakest link IMO. I can wait for RAM type drives to become abundant and huge - I suspect they'll be more reliable in comparison to modern HDDs.

Take care,

My '03 Sold.
ceyko is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the DFWstangs Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome